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How to Save Money as a Funded Graduate Student

June 15, 2026 by Emily Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily explores how to save money as a funded graduate student so that you aren’t in a constant state of financial stress. The first step is to open a savings account and establish a regular savings rate, even if it’s only $5 per month. Second, you must either increase your income or decrease your expenses. Both may seem impossible in your current circumstances, but Emily introduces numerous accessible options that grad students have used in the past for each approach, including the unique opportunities available to you as a graduate student.

Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance.

This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others.

I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

This is Season 24, Episode 1, and today’s solo episode, I explore how to save money as a funded graduate student so that you aren’t in a constant state of financial stress. The first step is to open a savings account and establish a regular savings rate, even if it’s only $5 per month. Second, you must either increase your income or decrease your expenses to increase that savings rate. Both may seem impossible in your current circumstances, but I introduce numerous accessible options that grad students have used in the past for each approach, including the unique opportunities available to you as a graduate student.

The day this episode is published—June 15, 2026—is the estimated tax payment deadline for quarter 2 of 2026. It’s a sneaky deadline because it comes a month earlier than you would expect it to. The whole estimated tax requirement is a sneaky process in itself because your university might not be super proactive about telling you that it might be required of you. But I will right now: If you’re a graduate student, postdoc, or postbac and you’re a US citizen, permanent resident, or resident for tax purposes and you’re not having income tax withheld from your paychecks, you might very well be required by the IRS and your state tax agency to make manual income tax payments throughout the calendar year. This is very common for PhD trainees who are funded by fellowships or certain federal grants. Basically, since your university is not withholding income tax on your behalf, you are required to send in those payments yourself unless you fall into an exception category. If this is the first you’re hearing about fellowships and estimated tax and you need help understanding whether you’re required to make the payments, in what amount, and how to do so, join my asynchronous tax workshop, Quarterly Estimated Tax for Fellowship Recipients through PFforPhDs.com/QEtax/. I’ll show you how to fill out every single line of the Estimated Tax Worksheet from IRS Form 1040-ES and address common scenarios like how to handle switching funding sources midway through the calendar year. I also answer your questions during live calls and via written submissions. For more information and to join the workshop, go to PFforPhDs.com/QEtax/. I would be happy to help you with this process today or whenever you’re hearing this episode.

You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s24e1/.

Without further ado, here’s my solo episode on how to save money as a funded graduate student.

Introduction

If funded graduate students want to be financially healthy during training, they must have access to cash savings to pay for unexpected expenses and emergencies. It’s all too common for graduate students to rely on credit cards or frantic, last-minute cuts to discretionary expenses to pay for unexpected expenses or emergencies when they arise. How many times have you heard of graduate students charging conference expenses to credit cards and paying a high rate of interest for months until they are reimbursed (or not)? And that’s only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to these kinds of expenses. In the course of a year, you can expect to encounter at least a few, such as university fees, car repairs or maintenance, tax payments, travel, medical bills, annual or semiannual insurance premiums, electronics replacements, and home furnishings purchases.

The financial chaos I described is due to managing finances reactively instead of proactively, which itself is a natural result of graduate students’ low income. When most of your income goes toward paying fixed and/or necessary expenses like rent, transportation, and food, you’ll almost certainly find yourself living paycheck-to-paycheck or accumulating credit card debt unless you put serious intention behind saving money and exerting control over your finances.

In my opinion, the real motivating reason to have healthy finances during graduate school is to keep your stress low and minimize the time you need to spend on making decisions about money. Your focus during your PhD needs to be on your research, publishing, and professional development. Experiencing financial stress impairs your ability to perform at the highest level in your scholarship. It’s in the best interest of your advisor and program to pay you enough to make healthy finances possible, but it’s also incumbent upon you to manage your money in such a way that you experience low stress. And that means saving money—both so that you have access to cash in the case of unexpected expenses and emergencies and so that you have flexibility and agency over how you use your money. Saving moves you from reactive to proactive in your finances.

How do you actually start to save as a graduate student or increase your savings rate? First, you must establish a location to house your savings that is separate from where you manage your regular cash flow. Second—and this is the reality of the math of personal finance—you must either increase your income or decrease your expenses to free up money to be saved. Neither is trivial for a graduate student, but one or both is necessary. When it comes to which to tackle first, I suggest exploring how to increase your income before trying to decrease your expenses. Frankly, most graduate students don’t have a spending problem, they have an income problem, and attempting to spend less is like getting blood from a stone. Therefore, in this piece, we’ll discuss increasing income before decreasing expenses.

Establish a Savings Rate

This first point may seem trivial, but don’t skip past it. Your first step is to open a savings account if you don’t already have one. If you try to save money inside your checking account, into which your paychecks are deposited and from which you pay all your expenses and credit card bills, you will find it almost impossible. Vanishingly few people who earn at the level of graduate students will see their checking account balances gradually increase with time no matter how good their intentions.

Your new savings account could be at the same bank as your checking account or not, but it is imperative that the bank does not charge any fees for it. You cannot afford to pay banking fees on a stipend, and in my opinion the mental load required to avoid potential fees is also too taxing. The most common type of fee on a savings account is a maintenance charge that is waived if a minimum balance is maintained. However, if you’re just starting to save, you are unlikely to be able to maintain a minimum balance. The purpose of the cash savings is to be available to you in its entirety when you need it. And if you’re only able to save $5 per month, as I’m about to suggest as a starting point, that savings rate will be more than negated by typical banking fees of $5 to 25 per month. (If you’re currently paying banking fees for checking or savings, you have an immediate opportunity to change banks and establish your savings rate!) 

Once you have your savings account open, create an autotransfer between your checking account and savings account for near the start of each month (or right after your paychecks are deposited). This is the ‘pay yourself first’ principle: Before you send your money to everyone else—your landlord, your debtors, the grocery store, the gas pump—set aside money for yourself in your savings account. If you’ve never saved before and you’re currently spending all of your income, start with an amount you don’t think you’ll miss, such as $5 or 1% of your income. It may seem like a trivial amount of money, and that’s kind of the point. Right now we’re focused on setting up the infrastructure for you to save and training your mind to believe that saving is possible. By following the tactical suggestions in the rest of this piece, you can increase that rate over time, but you have to start somewhere.

When you successfully increase your income or decrease your expenses, you have to actually save that money. In our culture, we often use the term “save” to mean “spend less,” such as “I saved $10 using that promo code!” In that scenario, you spent $10 less than you could have, but the money wasn’t saved unless you moved $10 into your savings account. If you set up a recurring revenue stream or decrease a fixed expense, follow through on the process by increasing your autotransfer to your savings account by the same amount (or a fraction of it). If you receive a one-time influx of cash or decrease a non-recurring expense, make a manual transfer to your savings account.

Emotionally prepare yourself that you will need to draw down your savings account from time to time. The purpose of the money is to be available to you for emergencies or irregular expenses to reduce your stress and mental load, which means you should actually use it if the circumstances call for it! Over time, hopefully the balance will grow, but there will be some ups and downs along the way, and that’s to be expected.

Increase Income

The necessary first step to increasing your income is believing it is possible. Graduate students face more obstacles to increasing their incomes than the average person, but it is virtually always possible to do so: where there is a will, there is a way.

I want to first acknowledge some of the barriers to increasing income:

1) Student visas. International students are incredibly restricted in the manner in which they may work or generate income in the US. Violating these restrictions puts your status in the US and your degree at risk—not worth it!

2) Contractual prohibitions. Sometimes the terms of a graduate student’s funding, whether an assistantship or fellowship, prohibit or limit outside work.

3) Departmental or advisor expectations. Some advisors and mentors seem to believe that any income-generating activities would detract from your ability to pursue your graduate degree, and therefore implicitly or explicitly ban them for their students.

4) Workload and other obligations. Some graduate students have little to no time or energy available to increase their income between the demands of their programs and the demands of their personal lives.

I know that sounded like a lot of barriers, but I’m naming them explicitly because I want you to take an honest look at the barriers you actually face or don’t face, and those are going to be different for every individual. When I was in graduate school, I had the general impression that outside work was ‘frowned upon.’ And maybe it was frowned upon, but frowning does not create a contractual obligation. As I went through graduate school I discovered more and more of my peers who had side hustles or businesses or otherwise found ways to increase their incomes. A lot of these were kept quiet from advisors, but sometimes advisors were aware and supportive.

At a high level, you can pursue increasing your income within the academic system or outside of it. The more of the barriers that I just listed that you have in place in your life, the more you should lean into strategies for increasing your income inside the academic system or outside the academic system via passive income. The fewer of the barriers there are for you, the more options there are for you outside of the academic system. I’m going to take each of these categories, within the academic system and outside the academic system, in turn.

Within the Academic System

I sometimes call methods of increasing your income inside the academic system ‘advisor-approved’ because it’s quite likely that your advisor will have either no objection to you pursuing these methods or will actively encourage them. These methods are usually quite compatible with student visa restrictions, although you must verify that before engaging in them.

The following are ideas for increasing your income inside the academic system.

1) Apply for fellowships, scholarships, and grants, everything from multi-year full funding packages down to poster awards and travel stipends. Regularly applying for funding should be in the official job description of a graduate student. If you end up winning an award, your advisor will definitely be pleased and you can add it to your CV. Honestly, even when you don’t win awards, the experience of writing the applications is great professional development. However, if your primary goal is to increase your income, you should selectively apply for awards that will actually affect your bottom line. Some awards will go to your advisor or program and simply replace the funding they were already providing to you. It’s worth an extra few minutes of investigation to figure out whether an award will actually increase your stipend or be sent directly to your bank account. You can ask your advisor while applying or after winning an award to provide you with a real increase in pay so that you can share in the benefit of receiving the award. I’ve discussed increasing income by this method many, many times with podcast guests, and some great interviews to listen to are Season 8 Episode 3 with Dr. Sam McDonald, Season 10 Episode 4 with Dr. Alana Rister, and Season 4 Episode 3 with Dr. Vicki Johnson.

2) Increase your pay rate for your assistantship. Setting aside the prospect of being funded by a fellowship, you might have the option to change the type or amount of your assistantship work to increase your pay. You have to look into your own university’s policies carefully here. Sometimes different assistantship titles have different pay rates, so 20 hours of work as a research assistant might result in a bigger paycheck than 20 hours of work as a teaching assistant. You might also be able to increase your overall appointment percentage, even going above 50% with special permission. Podcast episodes that discuss these matters include Season 5 Episode 6 with Dr. Sarah Frank, Season 5 Episode 16 with Dr. Kelsey Wood, and Season 19 Episodes 5 and 6 with Elle Rathbun.

3) Do an internship or professional fellowship, either a classic full-time summer internship or a part-time internship in any season. This method also has the added benefit of augmenting your CV and making you more competitive for post-PhD jobs. Like with the suggestion to apply for funding, if your primary goal is to increase your income and you are going to forgo receiving your stipend for a season, make sure that the internship pays more than your stipend plus your extra incurred costs for that period of time. Podcast episodes that discuss internships include Season 6 Episode 6 with Dr. Gillian Hayes and Season 7 Episode 7 with Anonymous.

4) Negotiate—collectively or individually or both. I’ve been so pleased to see the increases to minimum stipends that have been won by graduate student unions and unionization movements across the US in the last handful of years. If there is a union or unionization movement at your university, please lend your support. This is the best way to achieve permanent and widespread improvements in stipends and benefits, especially for your less privileged peers. Even informally banding together with other grad students in your department and asking for a stipend increase can sometimes be effective. In terms of individual negotiation, which I also encourage, this is most effective when you have a point of leverage. The first point of leverage is as a prospective graduate student when you are being recruited. After committing to a program, your remaining point of leverage is when you win outside funding. Grad students often receive stipend increases above their previous level or the level specified by the fellowship, a one-time bonus, or agreement to pay the higher fellowship stipend in non-fellowship years. Effective arguments I’ve seen for both collective and individual negotiation include affordability or cost of living in the university’s city and comparisons with what peer institutions pay. Podcast episodes that discuss collective negotiation include Season 12 Episode 7 with Dr. Alex Parry and Season 20 Episode 6 with Garrett Dunne. Podcast episodes that discuss individual negotiation include Season 2 Episode 2 with Dr. John Vsetecka, Season 19 Episode 7 with Dr. Wen, Season 11 Episode 1 with Maya Gosztyla, and Season 8 Episode 7 with various contributors. I also have one crossover episode that discusses both approaches with various contributors, which is Season 15 Episode 4.

Outside the Academic System

There is a great deal more variety in methods for increasing your income outside of the academic system. Broadly speaking, you can 1) have a side hustle that involves working for someone else, 2) start a business, or 3) generate passive income. I’m quite partial to the latter two options, but I’ll go through them in turn. No matter which method you pursue, try to chase either high pay rates so that you can minimize hours spent or activities that will do double duty to enhance your CV or resume.

1) A side hustle working for someone else. In this scenario, you would be a part-time employee of a business. The advantages of working for someone else are that the work is teed up for you to perform and the pay rate and hours are most likely reliable. The disadvantages are possible rigidity in schedule or volume of work, which might be incompatible with your role as a graduate student, and that the pay rate is not set by you and probably on the lower side.

2) Your own business. This is not as intense as it sounds. It basically means that you determine the work that you perform, with whom you work, and your pay rate, of course depending on what the market is for your skills. Think freelancing or the gig economy to start out and perhaps becoming more formal with time. The advantage of having a business as a grad student is that you can set your hours and modulate them to complement your workload at the moment. The disadvantage of this route is that you have to spend time attracting and landing every client or customer. Honestly, a lot of academics are self-employed on the side of their main appointments, so this is not an unusual model. Selling services is the fastest way to get started. Season 3 Episode 12 with Dr. Toyin Alli is a great primer.

3) Passive income. This is a very popular method among graduate students, even those facing the most extreme barriers to increasing their income. You may be able to generate passive income without working at all through credit card and banking rewards. Of course, perfect behavior with your credit and finances is a prerequisite for this method. Podcast episodes that detail credit card and banking rewards include Season 2 Episode 9 with Seonwoo Lee, Season 7 Episode 8 with Dr. Julie Chang, Season 20 Episode 8 with Brendan Henrique, and Season 20 Episode 3 with Kyle Smith. A crossover method with business ownership is generating passive income within your business, such as by selling digital products, which Dr. Toyin Alli and I discuss in Season 11 Episode 8.

The most ideal way of increasing your income outside of academia, in my opinion, is to be paid at a high rate to work what I call a career-advancing side hustle. This is a side hustle that you can put on your CV that helps you gain new skills or demonstrate the skills you already have, expands your network, adds a new mentor or recommender to your circle, or otherwise increases your employability post-graduate school. You’re most likely going to be paid a high rate if you take the rare and valuable skills and knowledge that you are developing inside academia and apply them in a non-academic setting.

Let’s assume that you’ve found a way to increase your income. Fantastic! How do you actually translate that into an increase in your savings rate? I suggest creating a rule that you automatically save a set percentage of your net income—that’s your income after business expenses, if applicable, and taxes. It could be 100% if you’re quite aggressive, or perhaps 50% or another compromise fraction if you would like to both save and reward yourself for your great efforts. It’s going to be really tempting to just let your extra income go into your checking account and mix with everything else, but this is a recipe for lifestyle inflation. That money will be spent before you know it! Instead, if possible, automatically deposit all or a fraction of your additional income into a savings account or set up an autodraft that moves the correct amount of money from your checking account into your savings account. If your additional income varies, you’ll probably need to carry out these actions manually, so add it to your task management tool or tie it habit-wise with another action that happens around that date.

My Season 1 Episode 5 podcast interview with Dr. Jenni Rinker illustrates a different approach that can be quite effective. Jenni set a goal to pay off her undergraduate student loans during grad school. She used her stipend income for her necessary living expenses and student loan payment and paid for discretionary expenses with her side income. By funding her discretionary expenses with her side income, she incentivized herself to work more so she could spend more but did not put her basic expenses or financial goal in jeopardy if she was not able to work on the side for a period of time.

Commercial

Emily here for a brief interlude.

Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, budgeting, or designing your financial life, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer live workshops, asynchronous online courses, and cohort-based programs on these topics, and I’m now booking for the 2026-2027 academic year.

If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, medical school, postdoc office, or postdoc association? My workshops are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Orientations, postdoc appreciation week, or close to the start of the academic year would be a perfect time for tax education or general personal finance content. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process.

I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation!

Now back to our interview.

Decrease Expenses

When I was in graduate school and trying to increase my savings rate, I turned to decreasing my expenses through frugal tactics. Certain of these tactics made a big difference and greatly increased my savings rate, while others had only a small effect. In retrospect, I realize that the most effective tactics were the ones that took relatively little time and effort, while the tactics that were most time-consuming and tedious to carry out tended to only have a marginal effect on my savings rate.

With your limited time and energy as a graduate student, I want you to generate the greatest effect possible. To that end, you should focus your expense decreasing efforts on 1) your large, fixed expenses, 2) the remainder of your fixed expenses, 3) your large, variable expenses, and 4) the remainder of your variable expenses. Your budget game is honestly won or lost on your large, fixed expenses. If those are not properly scaled for your income, it’s going to be incredibly difficult to save much of anything, so definitely evaluate those first.

However, before we dive into various frugal tactics that you can implement personally, I first want you to check into any benefits you might be eligible for as a graduate student and/or low-income individual or household. Getting a product or service for free or at a reduced rate that you otherwise would have paid for fully is the first and best way to decrease your expenses. These benefits might come through your university; the local, state, or federal governments; or your community.

I won’t exhaustively list all the benefits you may be eligible for, but I will mention the most common ones that graduate students use:

  • Subsidized housing from your university. If it’s offered and you’re not already in it, get on the list ASAP. People already in such a lease may need a roommate, so search for that opportunity. It can be life-changing.
  • Resident advisor positions and similar titles. This is a combination of a benefit and a side work opportunity. Basically, you help facilitate housing for the university and in exchange they reduce your rent. Among my podcast interviewees, I’ve commonly seen a 50% rent reduction, but Dr. Adrian Gallo in Season 1 Episode 3 received completely free housing and a meal plan from a fraternity.
  • Childcare subsidies and grants from your university or the state or free drop-in childcare. I have a forthcoming podcast interview with Madeline Hebert in which she details how she receives completely free daycare for her two children thanks to subsidies from a state program and a grant from her grad student union.
  • The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program aka SNAP or food stamps and Women, Infants, and Children aka WIC.
  • Free food at seminars and events on campus. Not a joke. You can replace multiple meals per week if not daily if you keep your ear to the ground.
  • Food pantries on campus and in your local community.
  • Emergency grants and loans from your university.
  • Subsidized personal travel when you pair it with work travel, such as paying to stay an extra couple of days after a conference when your airfare was paid on your behalf.

If you’re not sure what benefits might be available at your university and in your state at your income level and household size, please make an appointment with your university’s financial wellness office. They can point you to relevant resources and perhaps even help you apply.

I trust that you will look into all these possible benefits and more as your first step toward decreasing your expenses to increase your savings rate! Having done that, we can discuss the more conventional method of decreasing your expenses through your own decisions and efforts.

I’ll go through in the priority order that I mentioned earlier the various strategies for reducing each category of expense:

  1. Your large, fixed expenses. For virtually everyone, that means housing. If you have a young child, childcare qualifies. If you own a car, your car payment, if applicable, and car insurance likely also qualify. This is the most difficult and daunting category to make changes in, but like I said earlier, it’s pretty much the ball game right here. If you are looking to increase your savings rate by reducing your expenses, do not skip this category unless the sum of all of your necessary expenses is already less than 50% of your after-tax income. Yes, it will take time, research, effort, and probably money to reduce one of these large fixed expenses, but if you manage to reduce one, that is money that stays in your pocket month after month in perpetuity without you needing to expend any additional effort. So for each of these large, fixed expenses, research its market thoroughly and re-evaluate your needs as they may have changed since the last time you made a choice. There will of course be reasons to stick with the status quo, but if you truly want to increase your savings rate by reducing your expenses, you owe it to yourself to honestly evaluate your current options. Almost invariably, when I interview someone on my podcast who is paying below market rent or owns a very inexpensive car, they cite the legwork and patience they put in up front when deciding on that purchase.
  1. Your other fixed expenses. That’s everything from renter’s insurance to fixed-price utilities to your memberships and subscriptions, and don’t forget those that are paid less frequently than monthly. The first question should always be whether the expense is a need, and if it’s discretionary, if it’s more valuable to you than increasing your savings rate. The second question is whether what you’re receiving exceeds your need or want and how to downgrade if so. For example, on your insurance policies, check that you’re not over-insured and consider raising your deductibles. The third question, if you’ve decided to keep the expense and have right-sized it, is whether you can get a better price through another provider.
  1. Your large, variable expenses. The trouble with variable expenses, and the reason I want you to address your fixed expenses first, is that the amount you spend on your variable expenses depends on your consumption behavior. Yes, it is easy to reduce spending on certain variable expenses. It is even easier to resume spending at the higher level, because nothing contractual or structural changed to lock in the lower spending rate. To sustainably reduce your variable expenses, you must change your habits, which takes consistent and conscious effort at the beginning. Your largest variable expense is likely your groceries, especially if coupled with other household consumables. There are many ways that you can reduce your grocery spend, and I suggest picking one method at a time to test out and develop into a habit before moving on to the next one. Here are just five ideas of dozens: 1) Shift where you primarily grocery shop to a lower-priced alternative like ALDI, Costco, Walmart, BJ’s, or a local discount store. 2) Meal plan and meal prep to reduce waste, buy in bulk, and save time. 3) Eat less of the highest-cost food items, typically meat, seafood, dairy, and/or nuts. 4) Shop sales and use coupons. 5) Buy less processed foods and do more processing and cooking in your own kitchen, for example buying base ingredients instead of a partially or fully pre-made meal. If you have other variable expenses that come close to your grocery category, such as travel or a certain utility, search up ideas for how to spend less in that category and try them out gradually, making the most effective ones into habits.
  1. Your other variable expenses. The smaller variable expenses tend to be categories like eating out, certain utilities, transportation aside from what I mentioned before, home furnishings, entertainment, clothing and shoes, personal care, etc. Honestly, if you’ve done the work to reduce or try to reduce all of your fixed expenses and your largest variable expenses, you will have transformed your perspective on your expenses and built the skills to adjust your spending in these categories, if you think you need to. Examining your behaviors and creating new habits will be the key. Frankly, though, these expenses by definition don’t make a big difference to your overall spending, so it’s fine to not really consciously address them unless they sum to more than 25% of your after-tax income. If you’ve moved in with roommates, changed your cell phone provider, negotiated all your insurance policies, and become a Costco member, you’ve either created enough room in your budget that you don’t have to worry about your spending in these categories or you’ve so thoroughly changed your mindset about your spending that you will naturally adjust it down in these areas. I do not recommend attempting to reduce your spending by focusing only on this category and neglecting the others, although that is the most common approach.

How do you actually translate decreasing an expense into increasing your savings rate? If you decrease a fixed expense, you can increase your automated savings rate by exactly the amount of the expense reduction or a fraction thereof. For example, if you reduce a fixed-price utility by $25 per month, increase your savings rate by $25 per month. If you are developing a new habit to reduce a variable expense, try it out first to see what the consistent expense reduction is and then increase your savings rate by a conservative reflection of that amount. For example, if with a new frugal habit you have decreased your grocery spending by $10-20 per week, increase your automated savings rate by $40 per month. Another option is to increase your savings rate by a certain amount and challenge yourself to stay within spending limits across a few categories to facilitate that savings rate—basically, stick to a budget. However, if you challenge yourself in this way, do so by choosing a few categories in which you can effect immediate change in your spending like eating out, entertainment, personal care, and shopping. Don’t do this for categories like your utilities for which your actions only affect your next billing cycle.

One final strategy I’ll leave you with, and this applies to increasing your savings rate whether through increasing income or decreasing expenses, is to pay yourself first and last. I emphasized pay yourself first in the first section of this piece. Pay yourself first is great for the savings that you can absolutely for sure commit to on a monthly basis. However, sometimes your month or budgeting cycle goes better than you think it will—you bring in more income or decrease your expenses further than your baseline expectations. This is where pay yourself last comes in. You still pay yourself first with an automated transfer from your checking account to your savings account at the beginning of the month. Then, at the end of the month, when you have a higher balance in your checking account than you expected, you make a second, manual transfer from your checking account to your savings account. You can’t necessarily commit to that higher, combined savings rate, but it definitely helped in that month. This strategy is pretty intense, but if you’re working on an urgent financial goal like saving up the first few thousand dollars in an emergency fund, those extra dollars at the end of the month can really speed your progress. 

Conclusion

Graduate school is too long a period of time to try to skate by without access to cash savings. Unexpected expenses and emergencies will crop up, probably a few times per year, and if you don’t have savings ready to meet those expenses, you’ll quickly find yourself in credit card debt or scrambling to reduce your spending in other ways. This cycle is stressful and will detract from your performance in your coursework, research, and professional development. Instead, intentionally cultivate a savings rate so you will have cash available to you when you need it. To do so, open a savings account and set up an automated transfer for the beginning of the month and then increase that savings rate by deliberately increasing your income or decreasing your expenses.

Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode!

I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/.

Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/.

See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps!

Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual.

The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC.

Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

Filed Under: Saving

How This PhD Solopreneur Manages Her Time and Money

May 18, 2026 by Jill Hoffman Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Dr. Leslie Wang, the professor-turned-solopreneur behind Your Words Unleashed and repeat podcast guest. Leslie works as a developmental editor and career coach primarily for academics. Leslie and Emily discuss in detail how Leslie manages her time and money, balancing the appointments and payment schedules of approximately three dozen clients throughout the year. Leslie has molded her business to fit the life she wants to live, including frequent travel and personal and familial pursuits.

Links mentioned in the Episode

  • PF for PhDs Subscribe to Mailing List
  • Dr. Leslie Wang’s Website
  • PF for PhDs S11E10: This Prof Is Taking Deliberate Steps Toward Self-Employment
  • Host a PF for PhDs Seminar at Your Institution
  • Emily’s E-mail Address
  • PF for PhDs S8E6: How to Cultivate a Personal Brand to Land Your Next Job or Launch Your Business
  • Dr. Leslie Wang’s LinkedIn
  • Dr. Leslie Wang’s E-mail Address
  • PF for PhDs Podcast Hub
How This PhD Solopreneur Manages Her Time and Money, Money Story with Dr. Leslie Wang

Teaser

Leslie (00:00): You know, maybe moving away from the idea that the work needs to be its own reward, or that, you know, money and meaningful work are somehow detached from each other. I think that they’re very much can be part of the same thing. And it’s not a zero sum game. And I think I’m a really good example of that is that I feel like I earn very well using the skills that I learned in the academy.

Introduction

Emily (00:34): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (01:02): This is Season 23, Episode 10, and today my guest is Dr. Leslie Wang, the professor-turned-solopreneur behind Your Words Unleashed and repeat podcast guest. Leslie works as a developmental editor and career coach primarily for academics. Leslie and I discuss in detail how Leslie manages her time and money, balancing the appointments and payment schedules of approximately three dozen clients throughout the year. Leslie has molded her business to fit the life she wants to live, including frequent travel and personal and familial pursuits.

Emily (01:34): This time of year, mid-April to mid-June, is my reflection and planning season. I consider what types of financial education I want to offer my university clients in the upcoming academic year, and there may be a big shake-up in store for this one. When I pilot new workshops and programs, I typically offer them to my mailing list subscribers for free or at a steep discount so that I can work out the kinks and receive feedback. If you would like to be the first to know about these opportunities, please join my mailing list through PFforPhDs.com/advice/. As a bonus, you’ll receive a document that catalogs all of the financial advice given by my podcast guests at the end of our interviews. By the way, this is the last episode of Season 23 of this podcast, and I’ll be back in mid-June with the start of Season 24. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s23e10/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Dr. Leslie Wang of Your Words Unleashed.

Summary of Dr. Wang’s First Podcast Episode and Recent Updates

Emily (02:50): I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today, Dr. Leslie Wang, of Your Words Unleashed. Leslie is actually a repeat guest on the podcast. She was on way back in season 11, episode 10, released almost exactly four years ago from when we’re recording this May 2022 to May 2026. And so I’m just really excited to hear all the updates that we have. So Leslie, can you kind of take us back to, you know, maybe a summary of where you were at that point, what we talked about in that episode, and then tell us what’s happened since then.

Leslie (03:21): Sure. So when I first appeared on this podcast, and thank you so much for having me back, I was still a faculty member, so I was a tenured professor of sociology at University of Massachusetts Boston. Um, maybe just like a little bit of background about me. I got my PhD, uh, from UC Berkeley in 2010. And then I did all the things. I had a two year postdoc. I had two different tenure track positions, um, and I wrote two, sole authored scholarly books, a lot of articles. And around the time I went up for tenure, I was really burnt out and I was looking for answers to the question of, is academia still for me? And I decided to train as a life coach the same year that I went up for tenure. And that was in 2019. Um, I had a baby a few weeks before COVID hit, and then I was on parental leave and sabbatical all during lockdown.

Leslie (04:20): And so during that time it, I think a lot of people were just really soul searching. And I was definitely doing that. And I realized that like I did not want to stay in the academy forever. And so that’s when I started building my business. Your Words Unleashed and it also has a podcast to the same name. And so all of that was happening when I was still a faculty member. Um, so I think when I talked to you, if it was like early 2022, I knew I was gonna leave. I had no idea when, and then three months later I decided to leave <laugh>. It was like that. So basically, I, I still remember all it was, um, was I got an email from the chair of my department asking what my course preferences were for the fall. And at that point I was like, I can’t do this anymore. I’m done. And I’m like, I have to resign. I have to resign. So I did. And basically, you know, my contract went through I think August 31st, 2022. So I ended up just fully leaving. At that point I did have a full fledged business and I had launched it early 2022. Now it’s 2026, so I’m moving into the fifth year. Um, and so, you know, basically I am a full-time writing coach. I help people, uh, demystify the scholarly book writing process and create a practice that really centers their own values, um, and helps them, you know, express themselves using a more authentic voice and trying to get away from a lot of the sort of jargon, um, and insular nature of a lot of academic writing. Um, and I also do a lot of career coaching as well for mostly tenured faculty members that are looking for like a renewed sense of purpose.

Leslie (06:13): And I think right now, as we all know, it’s very hard times in higher education. And so I kind of do a mixture of both. I’d say maybe like two thirds of my clients are long-term writing coaching clients for, for whom I do a lot of developmental editing as well, and that’s most of my time. And then maybe about one third are career coaching clients. Um, and so I’m happy to talk about any aspect of, you know, launching my business, going full time into solo entrepreneurship. Um, but I would say the difference is that like now I’m very happy with where I am. Like I’m really satisfied with, um, I think balance is a tough word, but like the alignment I think that I’ve been able to create between my career and my life that I did not have in any way, shape or form in academia. And I probably didn’t have the first few years of my business as well.

Structuring Time and Staying Accountable as a Solopreneur

Emily (07:07): Yeah. Well I wanna hear more about that now. Um, I’m always curious when I get to speak with, um, especially people who, like we were just talking about, have a lot of agency over their own, you know, um, calendar and over the kind of work that they do, whether that’s inside of academia or outside. I’m always curious to hear about, um, how people hand handle their time and how people handle their money. And there’s sometimes so many parallels between those two. So let’s start with the first one. Like, can you tell me what, um, an average work week looks like for you? How you structure your time, how you maybe keep yourself accountable to the work that you need to do?

Leslie (07:42): Yeah, totally. Um, and it, it, it’s an interesting thing to reflect on ’cause it’s changed a lot since I first started my business. And I think a lot of business owners are gonna say this, but the first couple of years you were just working your ass off like you are, there’s not a lot of limits. And I think also coming from academia where there’s definitely no limits or boundaries with work I was, I was overworking and I was aware of it, but I wasn’t in control of it. So now moving into year five of my business, I am in control of it after having experimented a lot with like, what is the right amount for me, um, when factoring in the other things in my life that I wanna be devoting time to. So, you know, I would say my weeks vary quite a bit, but I typically have about five to seven, hour long, um, client sessions per week.

Leslie (08:35): And like I said, about two thirds of my clients are there for writing, coaching and developmental editing. And for each of those sessions I need to take anywhere from two to four or even five sometimes hours outside of that meeting to review the work, give feedback and that sort of thing. Um, and then the other sessions are with career coaching clients who I don’t need to prepare very much for. Um, and so that means I really need to space out my, my writing coaching clients to not have more than about three in a week, otherwise I just can’t keep up. And this is definitely a trial and error thing and I’ve come to realize that like summertime is not a relaxing time for me for the most part because academics are on, they’re producing a lot of material they wanna meet more frequently. Um, so I’ve become much more rigid around like how many clients I will take on at a particular time.

Leslie (09:33): Um, and then thinking about like how do I sort of structure people so I’m not overloaded in a week? Because, you know, after you work with someone for a while, you realize how much time it’s gonna take you to look at their work versus another person’s work. And then I have to factor that all in. Um, and so yeah, and then I normally have maybe like one half hour free coaching consult per week. And again, I, I stretch those out as well ’cause I don’t, I also don’t want people to have to wait too long after our consult to work with me. ’cause some people will have like a six month waiting period and you’re probably gonna lose those clients <laugh>. Right. So trying to kind of think about people’s time and um, and my own time. Um, but really like I just use Google Calendar to organize my time.

Leslie (10:28): I, I think I’m a much more visual person. I color code everything. So all of my client sessions are in green, dark green. Um, my consults are in light green, exercise is light blue, you know, other kinds of, you know, health appointments are purple. Like I’m always trying to, I’m always looking at it, um, and trying to figure out like what needs to be moved around. But yeah, for the most part it’s um, I think knowing now like what kind of life do I wanna lead? Like what does that actually look like on a daily basis? How much time do those things take? Say like, I want to, you know, be able to cook dinner four times a week. That takes a lot of time and that obviously takes away from other things that I can do. But if that’s a priority, then I need to think about my clients and how to move things around so I can fit it all in.

Emily (11:23): Let me ask about your Google calendar. Um, so you mentioned in that some things about like appointments, um, or even like an appointment with yourself, like to exercise. Uh, do you then look at open space and see, okay, that’s when I can do my prep or that’s when I can do the other work for my business? Or do you actually block out times of like, okay, this is when this type of behind the scenes work is going to happen, this is when this type of behind the scenes work is gonna happen. How do you, how do you um, plan for those kinds of work blocks?

Leslie (11:54): You know, I’m not quite as, um, probably detailed as some folks where they, they will block out the entire day because I like to have immense flexibility with my time. But I would say the first three hours of my workday, so about like 8:15 to like 11:15 or so is I’m a hundred percent on which means I’m probably gonna do the hardest work during that time. So if there’s um, you know, developmental editing, especially challenging editing I need to do, that’s gonna happen during that time. Um, and then coaching is probably gonna happen after that. So I have blocks that I, I give like specifically for coaching, it’s either gonna be between, I’d say 10:00 AM and noon or between 2 and 3:30. And that’s like, those are the blocks and I just kind of have it mentally in my head unless they like live in another continent or something.

Leslie (12:54): And then oftentimes we have to move things around. Um, but I had made a decision a couple of years ago that my clients need to work with my schedule because I had been doing a lot of like trying to coach people in Australia and it, so it was like 7:00 PM my time and I was exhausted and I had a baby and I was like, what am I doing? Um, and so I just started putting in more boundaries around my time and I’m like, if they wanna work with me, they will figure out a way to do that. And that’s, um, I will work with them within the range that I can work with them, but I’m no longer going outside of that. Right. And I think people also don’t know how many clients any one person has. And so I have around 35 clients at any one time and they’re going at different paces. Some of them are like on parental leave and I’m not gonna see them for six months. Others are meeting like very regularly every month for years. Um, and so it’s this dance, it’s like a constant, um, consideration of like, how’s, how are all these moving parts working together? Whereas I’m the only constant, so I gotta be, yeah, I gotta make sure that I can show up for all the, all the people and their needs without feeling overstretched. And that takes years to figure out, I think.

Emily (14:19): Yes. And especially ’cause like you said at the beginning of a business, you just wanna say yes to everybody and everything. And the boundaries you do, you don’t realize how much it’s going to affect you to not have good boundaries until you’re a little more busy and you’re a little more established and you have your work rhythms down and so forth. Um, you mentioned earlier that summer is a really busy time. I’m wondering if you’ve noticed any other seasonality to your work and whether you sort of lean into it and you go with it. Yeah, summer’s busy. I work longer hours in the summer or whether you try to like make it more regular throughout the year.

Leslie (14:51): That’s a really good question. I’ve tried to observe annually, but I do think it’s hard to tell under the Trump administration and like all the cuts that are happening in higher ed, um, it’s taken away regularity maybe. But if I had to, I think I, I definitely have a big drop off in, you know, people wanting to meet or even new clients probably in September and then towards the end of the year, because I did notice last September I had a couple weeks where it felt very spacious <laugh> and then it all ramped up back again. Um, maybe like, you know, beginnings of semesters can be a little slower end of semesters for sure are slower. There’s a lot of rescheduling in April, May. Um, but at this point I feel like it’s busy. It’s just busy most of the time.

Emily (15:48): I’m thinking about this from my own schedule as well. You know, you mentioned traveling and we’re, we’re in May now and I’m thinking about my summer schedule and I go to a couple conferences. So those are unusual weeks. I also have vacation scheduled and I also am thinking about how do I move around these blocks of work that I need to do to avoid these weeks when I have these other special, you know, things happening. And so, um, that’s very interesting that you’ve sort of built that into, for me it happens in the summer, but like you’ve built it into the, the rhythm of your business that you do a lot of traveling and you manage to not work during those weeks, which is pretty incredible. How far out do you have to plan that to like, make sure you’re not scheduling client meetings or whatever during that time?

Leslie (16:25): Well, it depends on how long I’m away. So if it’s only like a week, it’s usually doesn’t disrupt anyone. Um, but then in the summer we always go to Europe for like two and a half weeks. And that period of time, if you add on the jet lag afterwards, like I have like three weeks where I don’t really work. So that is much harder. And that’s why I’ve stopped taking on so many clients in the summer. Like I won’t start for the most part, start new clients then ’cause I have to fit everybody else in. Um, and I just treat those like, uh, compressed periods of time. But I would say I don’t not work at all. I I have to take it back. I don’t, I do some work on vacation, but it’s always like, um, I’ll have people send me their, their papers to read and I’ll, I’ll read those in like, you know, when I got 45 minutes there and you know, on the plane for example, great time actually to be doing this work. Um, I still do emails, like I don’t check out completely, but I’ve never been someone who did, you know, some people like to like not touch anything regarding their work when they, when they’re on vacation. I like to keep my mind still in it a little bit. Like I might be editing a podcast episode or like putting things up on my website. And I think that’s more of a personal preference ’cause I actually enjoy it when it’s, it’s feels like more of a choice almost. Like I’m getting ahead a little bit when I’m doing it on vacation and it’s very small amounts.

Emily (17:55): Yeah. So you’re getting some like pleasure or satisfaction out of that as well. So it’s not like taking away from vacation. It’s like, it feels good to do a little work. I I do the same thing. I had a week long vacation, like sort of over winter break this last year and I was really debating with myself like, do I finally leave my laptop at home? Do I finally like really disconnect? Um, and I ended up taking it with me, but I, I felt like it added to the experience, not like, took away from it. ’cause it was like, yeah, planes are like, oh, we have to wait in our hotel room until this activity starts. Well the kids are watching TV and I’m gonna do a little, you know, this other work. Um, so anyway, it worked out for me.

Commercial

Emily (18:32): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, frugality, increasing income, or student loans, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer seminars and workshops on these topics and more in a variety of formats. This is a perfect time to book me for a workshop at the end of the current fiscal year or at the beginning of the upcoming academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, or postdoc office? My seminars are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Behind the Scenes of a Solopreneur’s Business Finances

Emily (19:57): Okay. We’ve, we’ve talked a lot about time, which I love to discuss, but again, the other parallel kind of is money. So I’m very curious about how you operate your business finances.

Leslie (20:09): I mean, I have to say I have kept my business extremely simple. So to the point where, you know, my financial planner and CPA are like, you need more expenses, <laugh>, because I don’t employ anyone except a podcast editor. Um, I have a coworking space so that I’m not completely isolated at home. I have some various sorts of scheduling tools, zoom and that kind of thing. You know, my podcast recording, um, platform costs money. But you know, in terms of like keeping track of everything, I, I do have, you know, a credit card that’s, uh, a business card that I try to put everything onto just so when it comes tax time, it’s very clear what I spent things on. Um, you know, I keep things organized bank account wise too. So I have a Capital One account that is just dedicated to retirement contributions that get pulled out weekly, um, into a Roth IRA. I also have an account dedicated just to estimated quarterly tax payments. And so at the end of each quarter I pull from there. So I’m, I’m constantly sort of shuffling money around. Um, and I would say, you know, I’m constantly also updating these financial spreadsheets that I have and one is for me where I keep track of all of my monthly income. And the other one is with my financial planner where we’re, we’re looking at that kind of together. I put in my total monthly income in there. I also use it to keep track of my, um, all of my expenses and also keep track of my, uh, estimated quarterly tax payments. So basically, you know, I had worked out, and this is why I think having a financial planner is amazing, especially if you’re going to be moving into owning your own business. I wouldn’t have known like what percentage of my income should I be putting into retirement right now? Um, how much should I be paying for taxes? Like all of that. I think having guidance like CPA as well right is, is extremely important just in giving this peace of mind that you’re doing, you’re just like, you’re doing the right things. Um, and you’re not gonna be um, surprised, you know, April 15th kind of thing. So in general, that’s how I manage my finances. I don’t know if you have like more specific questions about money.

Emily (22:36): Yeah. So I think you mentioned a lot of great stuff there and I think because you’re working with a financial planner, probably the first thing was you do have a separate checking account, right? As well as credit card.

Leslie (22:47): Actually I don’t, I experimented with having a business checking account and it turned out that I just wasn’t using it. So I do keep it all together. 

Emily (22:58): Okay, so the revenue for your business comes into your personal account or accounts. But you keep all the expenses on a credit card so they’re easy to track, right? Because, and you’re also tracking it aside from just it being on the credit card, it sounds like you’re also doing regular, uh, bookkeeping. And then you have these other, it sounds like savings accounts where you set aside, you sort of what I do, I call it a system of self withholding. Um, so you’re putting aside the, the money that will eventually make it over to the quarterly estimated tax payments that’s gonna go to a separate account. You have another account or you pull aside the future retirement account contributions that eventually get over there. Um, okay, interesting. Well, as long as your financial planner is okay with it, like obviously it gets like the stamp of approval, but obviously keeping, having everything going to one credit card is very organized and that’s probably, um, a sufficient level of organization to, you know, comply with like the IRS regulations and so forth.

Emily (23:52): So that actually takes away one of my future questions, which was do you pay yourself like a salary or what, but if all the revenue is coming into your own personal account, then it’s already there. But then sort of maybe the corollary to that is, is your business’s profit, let’s say, you know, the revenue minus the expenses, minus the taxes, minus the retirement, is that very regular because you have these like long-term relationships with clients? Um, or does it vary quite a bit month to month and then you kind of have to deal with that on the personal side?

Leslie (24:25): Yeah, I mean I think that it varies month to month, but annually it’s very stable, right? So from the beginning I was, yeah, from the first year I launched my business, I earned over six figures. It has stayed that way and it’ll go up when I take on more clients. And then I made a very conscientious decision to not overwork. So then it’s come down, but it still sort of hovers around the same place. And because of that, it’s easier for me to estimate how much I need each month because my own expenses don’t change a whole lot. Um, but that, you know, like I am primarily paid by academic institutions, they have their own timelines. Sometimes it takes a very long time to get paid depending on the bureaucracy and what’s going on there. Like, there have been some campuses where I’ve been waiting for nine months and there’s literally, it’s somewhere in the system. Others pay me before we start. And so that’s, that’s what I’m dependent on is kind of, you know, do I know how they’re gonna be paying me? Do I know when they’re gonna be paying me? Um, and then having enough to get me through the months where it’s, it’s just gonna be lower because I just put in a bunch of invoices and things take at least 30 days, maybe 30 to 60 days. So yeah, that’s, it’s something that I have gotten used to over time, but it get, it’s just, I would say it’s fairly disconcerting at the beginning because you’re like, it feels like you’re not earning any money, but then you look at the end of the year and you’re like, oh, the totals are the same or the totals are even higher.

Emily (26:09): So my business also has a great degree of seasonality. Like, um, high season is like just following tax season, right? When I send out all the invoices for the tax education that I did, and then the money rolls in as you said, over the next, you know, one, one to two months usually sometimes longer. Um, and anyway, so there’s sort of these very lumpy times of year where I get a lot of revenue for the business and there’s other times a year when almost nothing is coming in. Um, but I still have expenses to pay. So that to me is like something I don’t want to have touch my personal finances. So that’s why I keep like a separate business checking account. All the revenue goes there, all the expenses come out of there. Um, and then I pay myself a salary from that account, which as you said, over over time, you know, you kind of figure out okay, what the annual is gonna be and then the salary is kind of based, you know, a little bit lower than that in case of some fluctuations and so forth. Um, but anyway, I don’t want that to touch my, the personal finances side of things ’cause I don’t wanna see like months where I’m making negative money <laugh> in like my personal account, you know? Um, it sounds like you don’t have maybe quite as much variation. Um, I as I do.

Leslie (27:12): I don’t think so. I don’t, I, yeah, I don’t think so because I do have a year-round business. I don’t think, um, I don’t work tremendously less, I would say, except for those holiday periods, uh, which are built in. So, so that’s why it was a little hard to answer the question about seasons, because I think in some ways I’ve stopped having seasons.

Emily (27:34): And I guess you, you sort of started to answer this before, but like, how are your clients paying you? You said some pay after the fact, some pay upfront. Are these lump sums? Are these monthly retainers? Like what’s the kind of schedule of client payments?

Leslie (27:49): Yeah, and that’s a really great question and it also depends on the institution. So, you know, I’d say 90% of my clients are using institutional funds and I’ve noticed like small liberal arts colleges tend to just pay a lump sum before you start. There doesn’t seem to be as much bureaucracy involved. Some of these bigger R1s, um, they will pay as you go. And so then I just decide like how many invoices will I send? So for, I, I typically take people on for eight sessions. That takes around at least eight months. Um, so usually I’ll, I’ll invoice maybe every two or every three depending on how quickly they’re, they’re moving through. I really don’t wanna do it every single time. It’s just, it’s, it’s just more work on everybody’s part honestly. Um, but I’ve lately, uh, there’s been some schools that have asked me to invoice every time. It’s just easier for them for their own financial reasons to do that. So, um, and then the folks who pay out of pocket, we just decide what works for them. So if they’re doing a six session career coaching with me, they might pay every two, um, they might pay half at once. And so it becomes very individualized.

Emily (29:09): I can see why you end up just looking at this on an annual basis and it’s like so many different frequencies and contracts and lump sums and yeah.

Leslie (29:16): And it’s also like they might be paying through a credit card link. They might be paying through PayPal, they might be sending me a paper check, they might be sending a wire, you know, I’m working with someone in Hong Kong and it’s like a telegraph transfer, which I had never even heard of before. So it’s a constellation <laugh> of ways that I get paid. And that is a good, you know, five, at least 5% of my time I would say is, is put towards figuring out how to get paid, making sure I get paid and do, you know, dealing with the money.

Emily (29:53): I have also had to set up systems around this because I realized earlier on, like, oh wait, did I receive that check? I’d have to go back into my bank account and figure out, oh wait, this anonymous, you know, payment ended up, you know, from this institution and now I have much better systems around like receiving, noting, you know, sending a thank you, like all the things that go along with that. And I noticed at one point, this was a couple tax seasons ago, that I was like psychologically somehow like procrastinating sending out the invoices. Like for all the work that I had already, this is the work already delivered right <laugh> from that tax season. And I was like, why am I procrastinating this? This is so weird. It’s like an undeserving thing or something like that. So now I’ve just have that, I just have my assistant do that. Like she does all the, not all, but a lot of the invoicing goes through her because like I just wouldn’t do it in a timely manner. And she doesn’t have the like baggage <laugh> around sending invoices that I do apparently. So, yeah.

Leslie (30:46): Interesting.

Emily (30:46): It’s, it’s been a learning process.

Leslie (30:48): I, I, for sure, I have to always, uh, like I on that spreadsheet for myself where I keep track of payments, I also have to keep track of did this come through Stripe? Did it come through PayPal? Was it a paper check? Was it a wire? You know, I have to know that because for taxes, you know, and I didn’t know that initially. So it’s like over time. And then I also, one spreadsheet I didn’t mention that I use constantly is I have a client sessions spreadsheet where I can see, and I have it all mapped out with months, you know, when did they start? How many sessions did they sign up for, how many did they have left? And I’m constantly also color coding that around who still needs to pay. Um, I have another color code for who has two or fewer sessions left because then I can know when is someone gonna finish so I can, uh, confidently take on another client without overtaxing myself. So it’s another thing that I, it’s like almost like checks and balances, um, around time, around finances, around like, yeah, did I get paid from them yet? Or like, what’s, what did they decide? Were they gonna do three payments? Like I have to know all of that stuff, but I don’t avoid, I like, I I find that interesting for some reason. <laugh>,

Emily (32:08): Yeah. I’m glad you like, kind of brought it back to like this overlap of time and money and tracking and scheduling and like all that stuff. ’cause there are so many like parallels between the two. So thank you so much for answering those questions. I’m always just so curious how other people operate and um, I would imagine for people who are inside bigger institutions, like, um, universities, this would be fresh information. Like they can see what it looks like on the other side, like dealing with money. No, we have people to do that. Well, no, you have to hire ’em or you have to do it yourself.

Leslie (32:34): I mean, I did not know that when I was a faculty member, right? I knew very little about how to run a business and, um, and the good thing is that it’s a set of skills <laugh>, and you can learn it and you will learn it over time. You have to, if you wanna be successful and sustainable.

Advice for PhDs Interested in Self-Employment

Emily (32:52): Let’s talk now then about how you would advise another PhD, maybe particularly a faculty member who’s interested in self-employment. And I may have even asked you this question in our first interview, um, but I’m curious to see if the answer has changed. Like how would you advise someone and maybe you, you do part through part of your career coaching, sometimes this question comes your way. What’s like one really solid piece of advice you can give to someone who’s curious about self-employment?

Leslie (33:17): Well, maybe following up on what we’ve been talking about is there’s a really big difference between having a really good idea for a business or even doing work really well and running a business, right? So like for example, like in my coach certification program, there were a couple folks that were incredible coaches. I mean, they were so like innately talented at it, but they did not have the skills to turn it into a business. And I don’t know if they really wanted to either, but you could see how like there’s skills for the work and then there’s skills of running a business. And I think, you know, listening to this podcast and other business podcasts is really, really helpful in shedding some light on the areas where you probably need to grow. Um, I would say also to really think about what you’re bringing to the table that is different from everybody else who is doing similar kinds of work.

Leslie (34:27): For the field of developmental editing that I’m in or even writing coaching, there’s a huge amount of people that have come into this area in the past few years, which makes a lot of sense. You know, if there’s an exodus from the academy, this is a very transferrable skill. It’s very aligned with how people were trained. So it’s not like this mega leap. At the same time, if you don’t, if people like people like clients or like the, the world out there doesn’t know how you think or how you, how are you approaching this that’s different from the 75 other people you just saw on LinkedIn. There’s really no reason for them to be interested. And so I think that comes down to this word that I think a lot of academics are scared of. And I was too when I was an academic, which is called Marketing <laugh>, um, which is really just about creating connections with other people.

Leslie (35:24): And I think allowing them to get to know you in certain kinds of ways that give them insight into whether or not they wanna be in your orbit. Not necessarily whether or not they wanna hire you, but whether they think you’re a compelling human being and they wanna be in your realm because you really don’t know, uh, how people are gonna hear about you, right? So maybe they wouldn’t hire you, but they would be aware of the things that you’re doing and the things that you’re saying online, um, and really like what you’re doing and refer you to somebody in their department. I think that kind of thing happens all the time. But that comes down to getting more comfortable with visibility. And so I think self-promotion can be a very tricky thing for many academics. I have podcast episodes on this, like how hard it is for I think most academics to put themselves out there because it often feels egotistical or it feels like you’re bragging or like why are you drawing all this attention to yourself?

Leslie (36:30): And I really had to shift that mindset to get comfortable. And this is like incrementally over time with putting myself out there again and again and again and taking small risks and with, you know, sharing my opinions, sharing my experiences, sharing my reflections, also sharing about my work. But it was the whole sort of spectrum of things that I think is why I now have like a pretty good platform on LinkedIn. I’m not usually even talking very much about coaching. Um, I’m talking about, you know, what I think about academia or, you know, sharing my own experiences of leaving. Um, so I think what it comes down to is if people can think about self-promotion as more of like sharing, you’re sharing your story, you’re sharing your insights, it’s more relational and you’re actually creating relationships with other people, then that can be something that really helps your business. Because in the end, like we, we need each other. We, we need people to know about us and you need to know about other people doing stuff too. Like we, it’s an ecosystem, right? And so part of that is I think, uh, allowing yourself in very small ways to be seen.

Emily (37:52): I, I found what you said so inspirational, you know, for me to use in my own business. I like that reframing. But it also strikes me that successful academics also do this. I mean, we might call it, we probably wouldn’t call it marketing, right? Inside academia, but I mean, I have had like for instance, Dr. Gertrude Nonterah on the podcast to talk about personal branding. Like not even personal, it could be just professional branding, like of yourself as an academic and the type of research you do, the networking that you do like at all. It’s applicable there as well. It just may not be a skill that the types of people who are attracted academia are, um, naturally many of them are not naturally inclined, but in either setting it’s a very useful thing to learn.

Leslie (38:28): Totally.

Dr. Wang’s Contact Information

Emily (38:29): Well, Leslie, this interview has been so delightful and, and I’m glad that people can get to know you through, you know, this platform and this interview. Um, if people want to, you know, connect with you, maybe potentially be, become a client or just wanna be in your orbit as you were talking about, where can they find you?

Leslie (38:44): My website is yourwordsunleashed.com. My podcast has the same name. Um, people can always reach out by email as well. Uh, my email is [email protected]. I’m also on LinkedIn. I’m all over LinkedIn <laugh>, so connect with me on there.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (38:59): Perfect. Um, and then we’ll wrap up with the question that I ask all of my guests, which is, what is your best financial advice for another early career PhD? And this can be something that we’ve touched on in the interview already, or it can be something completely new

Leslie (39:11): In kind of thinking about it now. And what I really had to do to go from academic to successful business owner is like, it’s really about financial literacy. It’s like learning the things, right? And I think that many, I have known many academics who take an approach of like more head in the sand when it comes to finances because, um, partly it’s that like academics don’t make a lot of money. You have a delayed, um, there’s a delayed period of time, I guess, uh, before which you do earn, start earning a salary hopefully, um, in the academy. And I don’t know, there can be just some fear I think around like, I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing. And then I think the other thing is in the academy there’s this idea that the work is its own reward. So finances are secondary. You are lucky to have a job, especially if you get a tenure track position where there’s so few these days. You know, I recently posted something on LinkedIn or someone, I reposted something where this man was saying he just got a tenure track job offer of 57K in 2026, you know, and I was like, my very first offer was 54K in 2011. Like, what is happening here? So, you know, maybe moving away from the idea that the work needs to be its own reward or that, you know, money and meaningful work are somehow detached from each other. I think that they’re very much can be part of the same thing and it’s not a zero sum game. And I think I’m a really good example of that is that I feel like I earn very well using the skills that I learned in the academy. Um, I understand what’s transferable about it, but I have much more breadth now and I’m able to align that with a life that feels meaningful too. So maybe part of it is like I would first start by thinking about what kind of life would feel really good to you and how does work fit into that versus what’s the work I want and how do I fit my life around that? And I know that’s a very privileged thing to say, but I also think it’s something, it’s a really good thought exercise for all academics to do. There can be more alignment.

Emily (41:42): Well, I think that’s a beautiful place to end it. Leslie, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. It’s been a pleasure speaking with you.

Leslie (41:48): Thank you for having me. This was super fun.

Outro

Emily (42:01): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

Filed Under: Career Transitions Tagged With: audio, Entrepreneurship, grad student, money story, PhD with a Real Job, postdoc, transcript, video

Sacrificing for a Lofty Financial Goal on a Grad Student Stipend

May 4, 2026 by Jill Hoffman Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Dr. Jed Kim, a recent PhD graduate in chemistry from the University of Wisconsin at Madison. Jed built a $35,000 Roth IRA by the time he finished his PhD due to consistent $500 per month contributions. Jed and Emily discuss what it took financially to maintain that savings rate, from applying for fellowships and bank bonuses to sharing food with multiple roommates to engaging in free and low-cost activities. Jed speaks openly about how spending too little at times hampered his mental health and how a family emergency caused him to rethink his approach. This interview illustrates the trade-offs graduate students have to navigate when striving to make the PhD less of a financial liability.

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Sacrificing for a Lofty Financial Goal on a Grad Student Stipend, Money Story with Dr. Jed Kim

Teaser

Jed (00:00): I have to do this in order to do my dream job of being a, being a researcher and a scientist. So how do I make this so that this PhD is no longer a liability but an asset for me, both financially and like career wise?

Introduction

Emily (00:22): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (00:52): This is Season 23, Episode 9, and today my guest is Dr. Jed Kim, a recent PhD graduate in chemistry from the University of Wisconsin at Madison. Jed built a $35,000 Roth IRA by the time he finished his PhD due to consistent $500 per month contributions. Jed and I discuss what it took financially to maintain that savings rate, from applying for fellowships and bank bonuses to sharing food with multiple roommates to engaging in free and low-cost activities. Jed speaks openly about how spending too little at times hampered his mental health and how a family emergency caused him to rethink his approach. This interview illustrates the trade-offs graduate students have to navigate when striving to make the PhD less of a financial liability.

Emily (01:45): This time of year, mid-April to mid-June, is my reflection and planning season. I consider what types of financial education I want to offer my university clients in the upcoming academic year, and there may be a big shake-up in store for this one. When I pilot new workshops and programs, I typically offer them to my mailing list subscribers for free or at a steep discount so that I can work out the kinks and receive feedback. If you would like to be the first to know about these opportunities, please join my mailing list through PFforPhDs.com/advice/. As a bonus, you’ll receive a document that catalogs all of the financial advice given by my podcast guests at the end of our interviews. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s23e9/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Dr. Jed Kim.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

Emily (02:55): I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today, Dr. Jed Kim. He graduated with a PhD in chemistry from UW Madison, um, in June, 2025. And we’re gonna be hearing today mostly about his financial journey through graduate school and specifically what he did to build up a $35,000 balance in a Roth IRA by the time he finished. So that’s really exciting. So Jed, welcome to the podcast. Will you please introduce yourself a little bit further for the audience?

Jed (03:23): Yeah. Hi. Um, I’m Jed. I got my PhD from UW Madison. As you just said, um, I was an avid, uh, runner. I, um, I liked, we have two cats right now, so a big animal lover and for the most part I like going out in nature, which is why I went to UW Madison as well.

Emily (03:40): I have had the pleasure of visiting in the summer, and I found it quite lovely. Um, I don’t know about the rest of the year. 

Jed (03:48): Yeah, summer’s probably one of, personally, I think it’s one of the best and worst times ’cause that’s when all the mosquitoes come out, but also like the lakes are just so beautiful. Um, and if you go like, uh, fishing at the, at either Monona or uh, Mendota, it’s just great. Also, like all the wilderness, all the trees. It’s super nice.

Financial Position at the Beginning of Grad School

Emily (04:09): Well, that’s wonderful. Let’s take it back to the beginning of graduate school. I wanna know kind of what your financial position was and also your mindset was going into graduate school. So can you tell us, like, you know, did you have any assets at that point? Did you have any liabilities and what were you thinking about money when you first started graduate school?

Jed (04:28): Yeah. Um, I guess we could, um, going into going into graduate school, I was very lucky where I got a lot of, uh, I guess it sort of like my financial journey starts in undergrad, right? Where I had a part-time job in undergrad, as well as my second part-time job was like applying to as many scholarships that were even remotely relatable to me as possible. So all throughout all that I was able to come out of, uh, undergrad debt free. So like, I had no assets, but also no debt. So there’s, there was a little toss up. So I pretty much started grad school at zero. I think I maybe had like a thousand dollars. Um, the outlook was, uh, when I first toured UW Madison, they said that it wasn’t really a place to like build wealth. It was just a place to like enough of a stipend to survive. And I was always an overachiever. So I was like, okay, how could I make this stretch as far as possible? Um, I got a, um, I got a minor in entrepreneurship and business, so I was really financially focused at that at that time. So I want to like really say, okay, I have to do this in order to do my dream job of being a, being a researcher and a scientist. So how do I make this so that this PhD is no longer a liability but an asset for me both financially and like career wise.

Emily (05:44): Oh, I love the way you put that and I love how, um, conscious of that fact you were going into it. Like it is, it is for most people, the financial reality is yeah, you’re just gonna be treading water, if that, during a PhD. But, um, I’m so curious now to find out how you went against that narrative. Um, especially that local narrative. ’cause it’s not the same everywhere, um, to start building wealth and as you said, not let the PhD be as much of a financial liability. Love it. Can you tell us what your stipend was at the start of grad school?

Jed (06:15): Um, I think it was, well, like it was high 20k, low 30k, and it stayed that way throughout the entirety. I think, I forget the exact numbers, but I think it started off at 28 and ended around like 32. But if, I could be wrong with a couple of thousand here or there, I don’t, I don’t think, I think it’s relatively reliable. I mean, you know, if you’ve had a lot of interviews, that’s pretty much just standard stipend for most PhDs.

Emily (06:42): Yeah. And I do know that UW Madison, at least from the previous interviews I’ve had, not a generous stipend. Definitely not.

Jed (06:48): Definitely not. Yeah.

Emily (06:50): Yeah. And what year did you start grad school?

Jed (06:52): Um, I started in 2020.

Emily (06:54): Okay. Uh, interesting time to start graduate school. Um, you moved, you were, you know, you were on campus the first year?

Housing Expenses During Grad School

Jed (07:02): Yep. No, no. So actually that’s the first way I, I started saving money. Um, before starting grad school, I, I made sure to message all of my incoming, um, grad school, you know, class. And I tried to get as big of a, um, number of people in one place as possible. So we found a house near near UW Madison. It was like a, still a 10, 15 minute walk. Uh, there was a bus that went straight to UW Madison, but I ended up spending only like six to $700 a month in rent. So that, that was like a, I really wanted to stay under like half a paycheck for, for that first year so that I could like, sort of get my, uh, um, feet under me when I first moved it.

Emily (07:47): Okay. This is an amazing tip already for both prospective and current graduate students. So how many, it sounds like you’re renting a single family home? And how many other people did you share it with?

Jed (07:57): So initially it was four, and then one, one person did end up dropping out it, in total, it was about three people. The rent though, was really, uh, we, it wasn’t the best first place. Obviously, as you stay longer and have it, um, in undergrad, you have no money <laugh>, like, pretty much all my money went into paying back, uh, paying back my, uh, student loans. But in the first year I was trying to stay, uh, as lean as possible. The rent, I think was like 1800 some, somewhere around that, maybe 18, 1900 for the whole house. Um, so it started off as four. When it was four, it was great, but, uh, we, like rent was super cheap, but then afterwards it got a little more expensive. Utilities, we kept it at as, at a minimum, I remember us trying to turn off the lights as much as po-. It was all the, all the things where you could scrounge as much as you can, as well as like splitting the internet bill, which was, which is a set cost. A lot of the set costs ended up being split among three, four ways. So that really reduced like the monthly expenses.

Emily (09:00): And did your roommates have a similar, oh, you also shared food. Oh, okay. Did your roommates have a similar mindset to you about wanting to be pretty frugal?

Jed (09:08): One of them did, the other did not. So there was a big room, a medium room, and a small room. The big room person, we just gave it to them. They paid, they paid like an extra 150 a month. The small room person paid like, like a hundred dollars less and I got the medium room. So I, I was considered like the base rent. I’m not sure how that worked out, but it ended up being pretty good. Uh, in the long run,

Emily (09:35): I’m spending some time on this because the housing decision for graduate students is honestly make or break for a grad student’s budget. And and you were so smart to know that going in, like knowing that as a prospective and rising first year, um, is that, was that the same housing that you kept throughout graduate school or did you end up moving?

Jed (09:53): So, um, in grad school I moved every single year. Um, mostly because every single year for some reason, rents kept going up. So I was trying to find a way to, uh, to minimize that. The first year, first first two years, we stayed in that place. Second year, um, we tr I tried to get another roommate, but that sort of fell through. So I found a, uh, uh, apartment that I rented on my own that was the most expense I spent on rent. And then the last two years I actually moved in with my now wife, then fiance. Um, so that ended up splitting rent as well. Um, but rent usually stayed around that when I lived by myself, it was like a thousand dollars, which was a lot. It was. But luckily at that time the, the stipend ran- randomly increased in UW Madison. So there was like a sort of cost of living adjustment, I guess. But, um, yeah, so it was like around that six to thousand dollars mark throughout the entirety.

Transportation Expenses During Grad School

Emily (10:56): Okay. Yeah. So good to know. And I really hope people are taking this message to heart. Um, I also moved a couple, maybe three times during graduate school. Um, a couple of those times were motivated by rent increases that I was like, I, no, I, we can do better elsewhere. Um, what about your transportation situation? Did you have a car? Did you not?

Jed (11:16): Yeah, so that was actually like a deliberate decision. My parents really were, were badgering me. Like, oh, you’re in America. You had to get a car. You have to get a car. I’m like, a car is a monthly expense. I just cannot, I could afford Right? Like a car payments. The car payments is one thing, but the car insurance was something else, something else. And as well as if you get a car in Madison, you have to have it covered. Otherwise it’s gonna like snow over you and ruin the car. So, um, I just took the bus everywhere. It was definitely a time drain, but it was just something that I had to do in order to like not go into debt while in grad school. 

Emily (11:55): And what about your peers? Did a lot of them have cars or a lot of them made the same decision as you

Jed (12:00): Most took the bus. Um, the ci- the bus, luckily the bus system in Madison were, was actually quite robust. So, uh, whether you lived like 30 minutes away or an hour away, there’s usually some sort of bus line that gets you through. Um, for instance, like I lived, I didn’t live in Madison City, I lived in Fitchburg, which really saved a lot of money at in that way. Um, there was a direct bus line that went straight from our apartment to the ma- uh, to Madison. And that really helped.

Emily (12:25): So, uh, I managed to live car free for exactly one year of my life, and it was glorious <laugh> and I have not achieved it since. Um, but I know like the questions for some people who maybe they have a car currently, but it, it is expensive and they’re not using it like that much. Like, talk to me about, okay, let’s say someone has like the daily commute solved around town. They know how to do that. What about those really outlier things where like you would really, it would be very convenient to have a car for X reason, like when you’re traveling or something like that. Like how did you solve those? Like, very rare but acute needs for a car.

Jed (13:01): So it really helps to have friends. First of all, <laugh>, if you have friends, um, um, outside the graduate school program, I found that that really helped me. Um, usually, uh, every grad school has some sort of like big industry, like industry company nearby, and that usually employs some people that aren’t in a PhD program. Um, I remember, uh, in Madison usually we go to Chicago or something like that for a trip, um, for a day trip or weekend trip. And usually the people that work at Epic or or in the U- University it’s entirely would sometimes like schedule like a road trip. And we, and that way I would avoid that flight, uh, that, that trip. The renting a car situation is actually not too terrible, especially if you know that you’re not gonna be in the, uh, in the city. So, and you try to plan as much as you can to not travel in the winter, and that way you don’t have to worry about the over, like the covered parking situation that you really had to worry about.

Investing $35,000 in a Roth IRA During Grad School

Emily (14:05): Gotcha. Thank you so much for those, um, insights. Okay. We’ve gotten a picture into your largest fixed expenses, right? Housing and transportation. And we also got a picture into your mindset, which was don’t let the PhD be as much of a financial liability as usual. And so, you know, I mentioned up top that you managed to build up a Roth IRA of $35,000 by the time you finished graduate school, which is incredible. So I wanna hear kind of some things that went into it that, did you do anything on the income side? Did you do anything on the expenses side aside from in housing or transportation that we’ve already covered? So kind of take this where you will, like how did you manage to, you know, save and invest that much?

Jed (14:43): Yeah, I mean, the lar- the fact that my largest expense, um, monthly was $600 really helped. Right? So, um, I was able to sort of squirrel away around $500 a month every month for my entire PhD. Um, and that comes to around like 6K, $6,000 a year, right? Um, luckily I started in, well, okay, I don’t wanna say luckily, but I started investing around, uh, 2020. And there the, uh, the, uh, s- like I mostly focused on like ETFs like, um, international and local ETFs, and those did pretty well. So that really helped with the growing, but the majority of the Roth IRA is still my own contributions, which I’m hoping won’t happen too for too much longer. But right now that’s kind of where it’ll, it’ll stuck.

Emily (15:33): Yeah. So let’s, um, talk a little bit about on the income side. Now, as you know, you mentioned during your undergrad that you applied for so, so many scholarships. Did that continue during graduate school or how did you apply those lessons in grad school?

Jed (15:45): Yeah. Um, first three years, no. Um, but then af- because the first three years is the first year it was mostly like COVID really hard to like sort of get acclimated to the university. Um, second year, uh, there’s these quals called, uh, TBEs that UW Madison has you take. So I was focusing on that. Third year there’s another qual called the RP research proposal, um, that you have to take as well. So those three years pretty much I was just trying to survive <laugh>. Um, um, but then in my fourth and fifth year I was really looking at like external fellowships. Um, I was lucky enough to get one that was, uh, tangentially related to the research I was doing. So the A-C-S Medi, um, I, if you are in the medicinal chemistry or in the organic chemistry field, I highly recommend that you do apply to that one. Um, it’s a very generous fellowship as well as, uh, a allows you to go, they pay for an entire trip to the Gordon Research Conference, which is a really good networking opportunity. Well, it was for me. Um, and then other fellowships I applied to that were a lot smaller were like, um, some scholarships I previously applied to in, um, in undergrad, but you know, in grad school format, um, there’s a grad school, uh, or post undergrad, uh, program as well.

Emily (17:03): And did these fellowships actually increase your stipend or was Madison just like, thank you very much for the money. Your stipend stays the same

Jed (17:11): That, for the ACS Medi? Yeah, it was pretty much your stipend stays the same. Um, they did give me a little bit, I think like four or $500 extra, but it was pretty much, I mean, if you talk to someone from UW Madison, you kind of know that there’s like a whole internal process where all the fellowship money goes into the university, they take the taxes out and then, um, and then they, uh, get give you the rest. That’s actually how I found you because I was, look, I got my first fellowship and I was like, what is going on? How do I use this money? Like what, how do I, like, do I get extra money for doing this? Because technically the stipend was more than I was making, uh, sorry. The fellowship was more than I was getting from the stipend, so I was like, do I get a bonus or, but it was pretty much they get it, use it to pay for my insurance, and then I could get like maybe two, 300 extra dollars extra. Which was a little bit disappointing. But

Emily (18:02): Yeah, it can be. And that’s something where I definitely want grad students to be aware that that could be the outcome. And so you have to know your motivation when you apply to fellowships, is it purely I want to increase my stipend, or is it also I want the prestige, I want this on my cv, I wanna get to go to a Gordon conference? You know, you have to know your reasons, because if you’re applying purely for the money and then your university just absorbs the money, that will be very, very disappointing. I, but it sounds like some of the smaller ones were able to stack.

Jed (18:27): Yeah, the smaller ones was able to stack a little bit, but again, they were so small that when I asked the university, they were like, yeah, it’s fine. Just it went directly to me. Yeah.

Emily (18:38): So you did have a conversation about it, you like disclosed it and yeah.

Jed (18:42): Um, I talked with our, uh, our advisor and she was like, yeah, it’s fine.

Emily (18:47): Um, and then when you won the larger fellowship from ACS did you ask about receiving more of a bonus than a few hundred dollars? Like did they turn you down? How did that work?

Jed (18:58): I did, and then they sat me down and said, here’s all your expenses that we pay for health insurance. You’re not getting that. I was like, okay, that’s fine. And then, okay, <laugh>, I, I kind of just left at that. It was, it was a, uh, in the end it was like a great experience for me anyway ’cause again, they paid for the Gordon conference as well as, um, it’s a, it was a huge boost to my cv. Um, it was a particularly, um, uh, prestigious fellowship, so it was more, I guess prestige wise, but yeah, in the moment I was like, ah, $38,000 extra will be great. And then didn’t happen.

Emily (19:32): Yeah. Um, okay. So that sounds like that about sums it up on the income side.

Commercial

Emily (19:39): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, frugality, increasing income, or student loans, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer seminars and workshops on these topics and more in a variety of formats. This is a perfect time to book me for a workshop at the end of the current fiscal year or at the beginning of the upcoming academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, or postdoc office? My seminars are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Reducing Expenses with Roommates, Costco, Sharing Food, and Low-Cost Experiences

Emily (21:04): Do you wanna talk about how you sort of managed or even maybe, you know, reduced your expenses over time in these non housing, non transportation areas?

Jed (21:12): Yeah, of course. So both. Mostly I if stay with roommates for as long as you can, that’s the best advice I could give because not only does it split the rent, but it really like, I don’t know how, how, how it is for you, but utilities are kind of expensive, especially Madison, where it’s like sometimes the utilities could go up to like 150, $200. Those are severe months. But, um, paying that by yourself, it it beco-, it ends up adding up to becoming an extra rent payment. And, um, if you split it among everyone, it becomes way more manageable. Where, where even the expensive months, like it ranges from like 30 to $60 instead of like 50 to $200 and that makes, that makes life a lot easier.

Emily (21:57): Now you mentioned earlier that you all shared food. Can you tell me about that?

Jed (22:01): Yeah, so we usually go, we, um, so conventional, uh, grocery stores, if you go weekly, ends up being really expensive. So what we did was we, we would go to Costco together and we’d get like those bulk deals, like the bulk beef, the bulk pork, um, giant trays of like eggs. And then we’d all just like split the, split the expenses, uh, which, you know, economically fa favorable, but also those meats could be frozen and we could, we usually like use them for like hot pot or like Korean barbecue nights. And then it was like really financially feasible. Um, Wisconsin also has like weirdly cheap beef and pork, so it was like really helpful there. But if we bought ’em individually from the package, I did the math, I think it would’ve been like two, three times more expensive. So I was like, that’s not gonna happen. We, we literally bought yeah, bags of like meat

Emily (22:52): I distinctly remember like discovering Costco when I was in graduate school and realizing, like you just said, like, you don’t have to go through six pounds of meat in a week, like just freeze it. So like if you have an operating freezer, like you can buy in bulk, even if you’re just, even if it’s just one or two people, you know? And it’s still, it’s still pretty feasible. So I was not, of course you might not buy, you know, 48 ounces of ketchup or whatever, but there are definitely things at Costco that you can buy and manage to consume, um, you know, in a timely manner. Uh, so were you all only shopping together or were you also like cooking, like preparing food together?

Jed (23:28): So one of my roommates were, was in the same lab as me, so we did cook together. Um, someti, uh, I’m like, I love cooking. So usually what I do is I would cook for the entire group, um, and then like everyone could just eat what they want. Um, I would meal prep and then, and then we’d sort of split. I mean, the costs are all split and I actually do enjoy cooking, so it, it would end up working out. Um, sometimes people would, uh, in order to like pay me back for that, sometimes pay me back. Not really money-wise, but like they would make dinners. Um, so we would sort of not eat together per se, but still eat the same food. If that makes sense.

Emily (24:08): I honestly have never tried that cooperative relationship with anyone other than my, like family. It sounds to me it sounds challenging, but like, I guess it, for you, it seemed like it was working out, especially since you were willing to do a lot of that labor upfront as like a service to the household.

Jed (24:22): Yeah, like Sundays it was pretty much like for me cooking, a lot of the dishes I cooked are like Asian, right? And like if you have a giant pot, it doesn’t really matter whether you’re cooking for six people or one person, it’s gonna take the same amount of time, like a stew needs a stew for cer-a certain period of time. So I would just turn it on, it would be ready and then people would just take it as they need.

Emily (24:46): And would you like to share any other kind of areas in your budget where you kept a lid on expenses or managed to reduce expenses? Like what did you try during the course of grad school?

Jed (24:55): Oh, well, in grad school, I mean, you know, this like, there’s not really that much free time. So, but when you do have free time, um, you want to ch- uh, I chose experiences and things that I found like very fulfilling that didn’t cost too much. I mentioned fishing, I loved fishing. It was pretty, I mean, you just need a fishing pool and sometimes you can rent those from a friend. Um, you would go ice fishing at the on the lake, which is free <laugh>. Um, you would, we did a lot of like, uh, if you know, lake Monona and Lake Mendota, it’s actually a beautiful walk. So I would, I would run that. Um, I trained for a bunch of like marathons and, um, half marathons, a 5K. And again, all you need are like really good running shoes for those. Um, there was a new rock climbing gym <laugh> in Madison. So in order to advertise for that, I tried to go to as many free events as possible. So like I would still be experiencing the city, um, and still experiencing what, what, uh, what what can be done in the city, but also not pay too much. I did end up spending some money on some activities, but, um, for the most part, I try to keep costs to a minimum. ‘Cause I knew that after grad school I would have more disposable income.

Emily (26:07): I mean, that makes so much sense to me that, you know, in graduate school for need or for want, like you’re gonna choose activities that are pretty low cost, unless you really are roll rolling in the dough, it doesn’t make sense to pick up like an expensive gym membership when you could just be running outside, you know, that kind of thing. Um, so that absolutely makes sense to me. Like I know one of my big activities in graduate school was like watching basketball games, which it’s not free to attend, but it’s free to watch them. Like if you have a watch party at your friend’s house and I’ll bring a little bit of food, like, it’s very, very low cost. Um, so that was like a really enjoyable thing that I did. And yeah, my activities are different like on the other side of graduate school. Um, okay. So you mentioned to me before we started that you were a fastidious budgeter. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Tracking Expenses and Budgeting as a Grad Student

Jed (26:54): Yeah, so, um, I had an Excel sheet that I made in undergrad, sort of budget for how much I spend in everything from rent, health insurance, phone bills, food, fun activities. Um, I used, I, I play, I play, oh, video games is how is a lot, was also an activity I have. So like how much I spend on video games, how much I spend on computer stuff, accessories, things like that. Um, clothes, like every category you could think of, I have, I have it. And basically anytime I do anything, I just, I log it into the Excel sheet and then move on. Um, that, that first, oh, um, that first month where I first started was what I called my baseline pay, baseline spend. And I was eating out a lot more than I thought I was. So I, I went to USC in undergrad and USC if, you know, is very close to K-Town. So we would drive to K-Town a lot and spend a lot on Korean barbecue. I didn’t realize how much I was spending until I, I did this, did this exercise. So the first month was just tracking. The second month was using that tracked data. I would extrapolate what can I really give up and what can I actively see, use that money that I’ve given up into something more what I consider to be more, uh, rewarding. For instance, like instead of going to Korean barbecue, which is very expensive, maybe we go someplace cheaper, but also save that money to go on like a trip. Um, ’cause of that I was able to do a lot of things in undergrad that I normally, but that’s not really normal for an undergrad experience. And also like, was able to sort of carry on that mindset and, and sort of modify it. So instead of going on trips ’cause a PhD, you don’t really have time to go on trips that often. Um, you, I would use, uh, divert all of that excess spend, excess spend from my initial first month into, um, into savings.

Emily (28:48): Yeah, it sounds like an incredible approach. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you actually did the budgeting? I think you said you used a spreadsheet. Um, but any details about, like, did you also use software or like how many different accounts were you tracking?

Jed (29:03): Um, so I, if you open a, if you open different bank accounts, they do give you bonuses, right? So, um, I use that spreadsheet to sort of track among the different account that I opened in order to get the bonuses and then close them as, as the times as as as I didn’t need them or if, or if the burden became too high. Um, mostly it was three to four accounts at a time. Anything above that, I was completely overwhelmed. Um, four, I remember I tried to do five accounts at one point and that was just too much ju- money juggling and just ended up, I’ve ended up making some mistakes when I had five accounts, which is how I knew that five accounts is the end, four is my limit. So, um, that’s what, um, I also experimented with like how much money I can spend in each category without becoming too depressed. Like there’s a, when you’re making a budget, you’re like, oh, I could be super, uh, super, uh, militant and I could live this like nomadic lifestyle, but af after living a nomadic li like after living that very like Buddhist monk-like lifestyle for six months on top of doing all the work that’s required of you in grad school and really just like hamper you mentally. So I found like a how much I’m comfortable with spending while also not me-, uh, hinder like, um, hurting my mental too much.

How Investing Beyond Your Means Impacts Well-Being

Emily (30:27): Yeah, that makes total sense. And I think it’s also, again, a good message for like prospective graduate students or early on graduate students that, and I’m saying especially for those who set them up for, set themselves up with high fixed expenses, they might think, oh yeah, I’ll be totally fine spending 80% of my income between my housing and transportation. No problem. I’ll just be really frugal everywhere else that gets old very, very fast. It’s very hard to sustain that. So you were in the fortunate position that you had those low, you know, relatively low fixed expenses. Um, and so, but you have these high savings goals and that was what you were navigating with, like the rest of it. So, um, I’m really glad that you, you know, set those fixed expenses up to be on the moderate side, uh, from the beginning because you had that choice really, like it was okay to increase your discretionary spending once you realized that your budget was unrealistic.

Jed (31:16): Yeah, yeah. Um, there was, there were some times where I was sort of for-, I did, I was not doing well mentally, but I still had to do a on the lower side. Um, for some reason I was really obsessed with that $500 mark, um, in grad school. So if I, like, I did that first and then once it’s really hard to get money out of the Roth, IRA, so it was just like, uh, I paid myself first and then if I was suppo-, if I had to scrimp and save for the rest of the month in order to make sure that I could live, that’s kind of what I just did.

Emily (31:46): I see. Yeah. I don’t necessarily advocate taking it to an extreme that, you know, you’re kind of suffering under it, but, but I do really appreciate that approach of like, this is my savings goal and I’m gonna make the other numbers work so that my savings goal happened. Right. Because you paid yourself first. So like, I did it. I’m not taking the money back out. Like, you know, we gotta go forward with this. So I do appreciate that approach even though it sounds like you were pushing yourself at times.

Jed (32:10): Oh yeah. No, no. I do not recommend what I did. Um, I, if, if, if I were to give myself advice from back then, I’d be like, instead of moving it to the Roth ira, just put into a savings account. That way if you need to use the money, you don’t have to like, uh, pray that next day you have enough like milk, uh, to make cereal. So like, it was, it’s like really, like there were some months where it was like I was playing within like margins of like $10. That was completely, completely reckless of me. It was definitely, I was definitely, um, on the too far end of the, um, contributing.

Emily (32:46): I, I, that kind of takes me back to like my first couple years of graduate school where I really played like chicken with the bottom of my checking account. And, and I also, not as much as you were, but I was also investing into a Roth IRA at that time and like yeah could have just done less of that and had more cash on hand. And I, you know, I learned that lesson over time. So like over time I still kind of found a way to do the investing and also built up savings so that there was something there that I could dip into if it was an unusual month.

Jed (33:11): Yeah, I, that is, I really wish I did that. Um, the first couple years of grad school were really hard because for some I was like so militant on that number and I don’t know why I was so set on that number.

Dealing with Irregular and Unexpected Expenses During Grad School

Emily (33:25): How did you ultimately deal with like, irregular expenses? Because that was the thing that pushed me to have more cash savings was to be a- ready to pay for irregular expenses.

Jed (33:33): There was like a family emergency at one point, um, that I had to go back to California for. Um, and it was like the tickets were like $600 and for me that was like a lot of money, um, that month. I luckily it happened in the beginning of the month before I did my stupid thing and did that. Um, but after that event I realized, oh, shoot, I would’ve missed this if I, um, didn’t have that. So that’s when I started building a three, like building an actual savings account first and then start contributing back into the Roth IRA that year I contributed a little bit less, but I think it, like, I built like a thousand dollars, $2,000 savings account. Um, and that really helped with the money anxiety for sure.

Emily (34:17): Yeah. And like, I mean, what you just said, you saved a little bit less that year. But it bought you so much peace of mind for like every year going forward, right? So like, it’s so worth it. Like I, again, I did not do that myself at the beginning grad school, but that is what I teach now. I do teach at least a small emergency fund first before you do anything else. Um, and it, it just, it honestly makes such a big difference to your stress, even if you never have an emergency that causes you to need to use it. Like, you know that it’s there, you have that peace of mind. You can sleep better at night and so just delaying your investing by like a few months, you know, four months or whatever it was. Yeah. It bought you a lot.

Jed (34:56): Yeah, no, that’s, I, I wish I did that early in my grad school ’cause so that I wouldn’t have to be so stressed for the first three years. But luckily at the third year, I, I, um, some like family emergency happened and I was sorta like able to wake up

Emily (35:10): And hopefully some of the listeners will take this advice to heart and not have to have that experience before they make, you know, their own change. Um, well how did it feel, you know, when you got to your defense or your graduation and you had that Roth IRA balance, like did you feel accomplished?

Jed (35:27): I, um, I mean, I’m not sure how you feel about a Roth ira, but for me it’s just like a number. Um, I, I felt like it was something that I had to do in order to retire. So this is this, um, the way I felt was like it was, oh, I’m paying future Jed this this amount of money so that he doesn’t have to worry about too much. Also, something that really inspired me was, um, like a money, the money money multiplier effect, right? So early investing, um, in your early career ends up like multiplying by 32x, um, 32 to 48x and I was like, okay, I have, I put 35K in. So that means th- uh, that means if I multiply that by 32, I’m close to a million dollars. Okay. Jed has a, future Jed has a million dollars to play with next time. I suffered a lot, but I hope he’s able to use it pretty well.

Emily (36:22): Yeah, I mean, time will tell <laugh>, I certainly can also, like, I’m very glad that I did the investing I did during graduate school and I’m far enough out that I’ve seen, you know, that compound interest growth in a significant way. Um, but there were also things I missed out on. So like, it’s definitely a mixed bag and I don’t know, I, I’m sort of a more like a no regrets kind of person. So I think it was a good decision. But yeah, there were some things we didn’t do that, you know, were one time opportunities and they, they don’t come around again. So it’s all, there’s always trade offs.

Jed (36:52): Yep. Yeah. That’s how, that’s how I felt. But I graduated, I got a job, so I was pretty happy. I guess things were looking up

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (37:02): Good. Um, well let’s end on, I, you know, we’ve learned, we’ve learned so much from this interview you’ve shared so openly. I really appreciate that, um, to, you know, learn honestly about your financial journey through graduate school. Um, why don’t you leave us with, uh, the answer to the question I ask all of my guests at the end of interviews, which is, what is your best financial advice for another early career PhD? And that could be something that we’ve touched on in the interview already, or it could be something completely new.

Jed (37:28): Yeah. Number one rule number one advice is to get, get roommates for as long as you can. Um, I feel like I felt, I felt that even though I was playing on the riskier side of my finances in the first three years, because I had roommates, I had that check, like that ability to like mess up a little bit. We were able to rely on each other when we had really bad bumps. And if you live by yourself, yes, you still have your friends, they’re still your friends, you’re still gonna talk to them. But it’s really hard to have the same kind of relationship when you’re living with someone and asking someone for help that’s not inside the house.

Emily (38:05): Yeah, it is. I mean, it’s a different level of community that you have when you have roommates versus just friends you don’t live with. So, um, thank you so much for sharing that. Thank you again for volunteering to come on the podcast.

Jed (38:17): Of course. Thank you so much, Emily.

Outro

Emily (38:28): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

Filed Under: Frugality Tagged With: audio, frugality, grad student, investing, money story, Roth IRA, transcript, video

Holding a Financial Standard While on the Faculty Job Market

April 20, 2026 by Jill Hoffman Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Dr. Dillon Pruett, an assistant professor in the School of Communication Science and Disorders at Florida State University. This is the second part of a two-part interview in which we discuss Dillon’s turbulent faculty job search and transition to a faculty position. A higher income doesn’t completely ameliorate all financial challenges, but the future is looking bright. Dillon’s candor during this conversation is laudable, and his experiences are likely to be both relatable and a cautionary tale for prospective and new faculty members.

Links mentioned in the Episode

  • PF for PhDs S23E7: Financial Chaos Exacerbates a Low Graduate Student Stipend
  • PF for PhDs Podcast Guest Submission Form
  • Host a PF for PhDs Seminar at Your Institution
  • Emily’s E-mail Address
  • PF for PhDs Subscribe to Mailing List
  • PF for PhDs Podcast Hub
Holding a Financial Standard While on the Faculty Job Market

Teaser

Dillon (00:00): I was, my jaw dropped. I was like, are you kidding me? Like that is, that’s really, really crazy.

Introduction

Emily (00:20): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (00:48): This is Season 23, Episode 8, and today my guest is Dr. Dillon Pruett, an assistant professor in the School of Communication Science and Disorders at Florida State University. This is the second part of a two-part interview. In the first part, Dillon and I covered his financial journey through his PhD and postdoc at Vanderbilt University. In this second part, we discuss Dillon’s turbulent faculty job search and transition to a faculty position. A higher income doesn’t completely ameliorate all financial challenges, but the future is looking bright. Dillon’s candor during this conversation is laudable, and his experiences are likely to be both relatable and a cautionary tale for prospective and new faculty members.

Emily (01:33): For Season 24 of this podcast, I plan to publish a series of Budget Breakdown episodes. These interviews follow a template in which the interviewee shares their income, current financial goals, and five largest expenses. I’m looking for four grad students to provide these interviews, so this is your official invitation to volunteer. I love that on this podcast I get to feature PhDs and PhDs-to-be who are almost exclusively regular people and learn and share their real-life stories and strategies. If you would like to break down your budget, please go to PFforPhDs.com/podcastvolunteer/ and fill out the quick form, and I’ll be in touch over email. I look forward to interviewing you for this summer series! You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s23e8/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Dr. Dillon Pruett.

Dr. Pruett’s Finances During the Postdoc Years

Emily (02:43): Okay. Let’s talk more about your postdoc then. I understand you did your postdoc at Vanderbilt as well, and it sounds like you didn’t move right. Were you staying in the same condo during that phase?

Dillon (02:52): Yes. Um, so that was a really great transition because I ended up doing a postdoc with a professor who I had collaborated with during my PhD. And so, um, she was also on my PhD committee. So when my dissertation defense was delayed a little bit, um, she knew exactly why. She knew exactly when it was scheduled for. There was no issue of having to contact another university and get my offer extended or have to change, you know, my moving date or any of, of that. So that, that was really, really great. Um, I noticed, so I, um, was on a TL1, which is a clinical and translational science fellowship. Um, and so, uh, that came with a stipend, I think it was about $56,000. Um, and that also came with, um, paid insurance. And so, um, that was, that was a huge boost in the amount that I was, it was more than double what I had previously.

Dillon (03:58): And so it pretty much ameliorated all of the issues I had with like counting the dollars to the end of the month. I was like, well, shoot, like this is this, this is great. I feel like a normal human being that can, you know, get a burrito and not have to be concerned that that’s gonna impact me down, down the road. Um, so that, that was, um, really huge just for, to feel like I could take a breath of fresh air. Um, even on my, my postdoc, there were some discrepancies within, um, the department and, um, I felt like I was comfortable with what I was getting, but again, knowing that other people were getting significantly more, um, was like, oh man, like it makes me feel like I am, I’m less than. So I had a very niche focus for, you know, my PhD and for my postdoc, um, postdocs that had a, a more heavily quantitative focus that could work on multiple projects. Um, were getting maybe like $90,000 a year. Um, and I think the justification was that that was more or less the going rate for the type of skills that were required for that role if those people were having the open market. And so that was, that was that. Um, so it would’ve been great to be getting, you know, almost twice as much as I was getting, but I was really grateful to be getting so much more than my PhD that it seemed like, you know what, again, just kind of focusing on myself, not letting myself worry about that. Um, and I think that my, my, uh, postdoc mentor advocated kind of on my behalf, but was essentially kinda shot down. I was like, no, we’re, that salary could not apply to me for what I was doing. Um, so no, um, no, ill feelings towards that. It’s more the issues, the larger system than my individual situation.

Emily (06:19): Yeah, I totally understand that. And people do make different amounts of money That’s true in different fields. They’re paid differently. Um, it just strikes me that like you were, they had you anchored at that grad student stipend level that unchanging grad student stipend level, so that yeah, when you double your compensation, like you feel great about it. Um, and I understand, you know, you, you were trying to, again, keep your eyes on your own paper, but like yeah, that does sting to have another person who had the same ti- kind of title as you, right. With such huge disparity. Okay. How many years were you in your postdoc and what was the financial transition, if any, that you were able to make during that period of time?

Tenure Track Faculty Salaries at R1 Institutions: $63,000 to $100,000+

Dillon (07:02): Yeah, I started my postdoc, um, in 2022, and then I, um, was applying for jobs fairly quickly, faster than I, um, anticipated with in 2023. Um, and that was because I’d had some, um, department search chairs that specifically reached out and said, Hey, you should apply for this. And I didn’t really quite feel ready for that, but I was like, okay, I mean, if you’re telling me, I guess I’ll at least put my name in the hat. Um, and once I had done like two or three applications, um, it was relatively trivial to just apply for, you know, seven or eight more. Um, and so I had a couple of on-campus interviews. Um, they were all places that I was at least interested in perhaps working at. Um, but one of the offers was for I think initially like $63,000 a year. And this is, uh, uh, an R1 school in the southeast.

Dillon (08:14): And I was, my jaw dropped. I was like, are you kidding me? Like that is, that’s really, really crazy. Um, I had a competing offer from another R1in the southeast, um, for I think 74. And I went back to the first school and said, Hey, you know, are you willing to match it? And they were sort of like, we can go up to 72, but we, we can’t match it. So I said, okay, that’s, that’s not gonna work for me. Um, for the other school that was at 74, um, I still felt like that was way low and I had a lot of debate because I’m like, well, look, this is a tenure track position at an R1 school. I felt like I could have success there. It would be limiting in what type of research I could pursue, but I felt like the bar was such that I could clear it and be a success.

Dillon (09:14): And so that, that gave me a, a big reason to pause. Um, at the same point in time, I did an on-campus interview for another R1 in the southeast that I knew would be over a hundred thousand per year. And so I was like, okay, that would also be a better place for me to do my research. Um, and I just feel like that would be the best fit. Um, it was a really weird situation where after I had my on-campus interview, I followed up and, you know, wanted to ask where they were in their search process and heard nothing and reached out again saying, Hey, I have other offers. Just wanted to know where you’re at again, nothing. So, um, I was pressured from the other school to say, Hey, like, are you gonna take this or not? And I basically just said, no.

Dillon (10:12): I said, you know, I am still waiting to hear back. And I just felt that 74,000 was, was very low. Um, still ended up being ghosted by the third place. Um, did not have a rejection email, not, and automated one, not anything else. It was just radio silence. So, um, that was really weird. Um, and I reached out to other professors at Vanderbilt. Uh, they were more senior to just be like, Hey, like, this seems odd, is this normal? And they were like, no, that’s not, but they, you know, kind of did their best to assure me that it was unlikely directly related to something inherent to me and more that they didn’t have their kind of department in order. And this is a reflection of that, and that if that is the way that things are going, then maybe that’s not a great spot to come in as an assistant professor.

Dillon (11:14): Um, so I ended up sort of doing a lot of interviews and getting very close, but kind of walked away from things and felt a little, um, unnerved by it all. I was like, okay, I, I had this position that would’ve been okay, really didn’t pay that well. I said, no, should I have accepted it? And then this other place that just didn’t even get back to me. Um, so then the following, uh, year, uh, I came back and did I think one or two apps kind of early and then did an on-campus interview, um, a little bit earlier in the season and was offered that and decided to take it, um, at Florida State. And I didn’t know it at the time, but the, um, o- offer was for $88,000 per year, um, on a nine month, um, contra- or salary or however that’s, that’s phrased.

Dillon (12:17): Um, and I was told that the starting salary was not negotiable for essentially like, uh, it’s set by the union. And I was a little bit surprised by that because I know that a lot of, a lot of state schools have faculty unions, but I didn’t quite understand how that played such, um, a large role in the salary negotiate sal- salary negotiation, because I really felt that that was like the most common negotiation point that you could have.

Deciding on a Tenure Track Faculty Position

Dillon (12:54): And so I was just sort of like, oh, that’s, that’s it. Um, okay, well, um, I guess this is my next big choice is do I take this or, or not. And I felt that Florida State was a place that I could, um, have success, have support. Um, I was in a good peer group. Um, it felt like things are gonna start getting very sticky very quickly with higher ed, and so it felt like I really should not wait on this, and this seems like a good spot. And so, um, that’s kind of how that all, all of that unfolded.

Emily (13:33): I’m trying to get to the timeline. We’re talking about fall 2024. Is that when you were extended the offer? Is that right?

Dillon (13:40): So I would’ve interviewed in December of 2024, and then I received an offer in, I think it was January of 2025.

Emily (13:48): Yeah. Sticky. Yeah, that’s a good way to put it. Sure. <laugh> uh, prescient. Good job. <laugh> securing something at that stage

Dillon (13:57): And kind of just layered on top of that. I was very sick for my interview week, week weekend. Um, I had a conference right beforehand and I had started to get sick and I was like, oh, all right. Maybe if I just take like one or two, like two days of rest where I am just trying to sleep and take meds, I’ll kind of get through it. Um, ended up getting worse and I had a fever, I was coughing consistently, I couldn’t sleep. I had lost my voice and I was like, I can’t call the day before I’m supposed to leave, or the day of I’m supposed to leave and just cancel this. Um, and so I was like, well, maybe by the time I get there I’ll be over the hump and I’ll be recovered. And so it was magical thinking. Um, and no, I was very sick.

Dillon (14:52): I went through like literally a bag of cough drops per day. Um, I had to have water with me the whole time near the end of my job talk, you know, I had this coughing spell that I had to take like a minute or two and a minute. A minute or two doesn’t sound like a long time, but when you’re coughing for a minute or two straight, um, it was, it was probably the toughest like academic thing that I’ve ever had to do, um, is you’re supposed to be on the whole time you’re supposed to be at, at your best and you’re conversational and answering these personal questions and research questions. And, um, I just got through it all and just said, okay, I guess this is, this is what I have to do. Um, I try to take this mindset that I’m like, imagine you’re like special forces in the military. There’s no option to not do it. You’re just gonna do it. And it ended up that it worked out.

Emily (15:53): What I’m actually taking from that story of, you know, these two rounds of applications and your interview process and all that is like, um, that you kind of had, I don’t know if I wanna say it’s an abundance mindset, but at least like not a scarcity mindset. Like you really talked yourself through, you know, declining the offers that you had because you were kind of like, they aren’t sufficient, it’s not gonna be a good fit. And I think a lot of people would say, I have a bird in hand, right? Like, I have it, I have to take the offer because these tenure track positions are so hard to come by. Um, yet you held out even, you know, it didn’t work out the first year, but working out the second year, despite the adversity and the interview and all of that, just like, yeah, you had a, a standard that you, um, held the job that you wanted to accept too. And so I just want people to get that message of like, it’s not all scarcity. Okay. I know there’s scarcity in academia, but not always, not for everyone. Um, there can be times when these things work out.

Dillon (16:58): Yeah. And you know, I’m very grateful that it didn’t work out because, you know, this is such a tough place to be, you know? And so, um, it’s tough to explain that to your family or your parents because they’re like, oh, okay, well you’re doing a PhD, so that means you’re gonna be a professor. And it’s like, well, first of all, it’s if you want to do it, and there’s a whole range of places and spaces that you can go with that, but also it is not any kind of guarantee. And like if, if you’re in your PhD, you, you, you kind of know that, but to explain to your parents that are like, I don’t know, um, as, as much as they love you and as much as they think you’re great, you can be really great and it can still be really, really tough. And so, um, that’s why I felt such anxiety from having said no to these places because I’m like, am I gonna be kicking myself, you know, a year or three down the road when I’m like, if I just had done that? Um, and so it, it did work out and I’m grateful for it.

Emily (18:05): I think you also, and maybe this is true, but you should have been taking some clues from okay, I was invited to apply like only a year into my postdoc. Like maybe I have a strong profile, like maybe I’m a competitive candidate here. Even though it didn’t work out in year one, it did, you know, subsequently. Um, the other thing about the parents, I think, or maybe outside people, like having that expectation of like, oh yeah, PhD means professors. Like when you actually like grab that ring and you’re like, I got it <laugh>, I’m accepting an offer. They’re like, of course, of course that’s what was going to happen. You’re like, no, you have no idea. Like what I went through to get to this point. <laugh>.

Dillon (18:41): Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Emily (18:43): Okay. Well, is there anything that you’d like to share with us about your current position and the financial aspects of it? I mean, I kind of think you left a little open loop there with like, does the union actually determine faculty salaries? Like what have you discovered in your time since you accepted or since you started?

Dillon (18:59): Um, it’s still an open question. Um, so I know that that is not university wide. Um, it might have been that there was a specific pay line that was given to the school from the college that either there was a maximum or just a set amount. And that was just that. Um, there’s also some very interesting, uh, issues where I have a startup, but I cannot use my startup to pay students or to pay staff. And that’s kind of wild in the basic science space because like when you are just starting your lab, you, you get postdocs, you get, uh, research staff you like, that’s how you build up your lab and you do the work that you need to do. Um, and so it’s just a little bit odd that, um, that’s the restriction that, you know, I’m, I’m working through. Um, so

Emily (20:05): My understanding that until you get a grant, you can’t hire anyone. Is that right?

Dillon (20:10): Essentially. Yeah. Um, there are undergraduate and masters students who, um, can do sort of like, uh, i, I don’t know the exact term, but sort of like a, a research experience where they can work in your lab for a certain number of hours per week. Um, that’s not guaranteed. You have to, you know, there’s only so many students that that that can go around. Um, I’ve also learned that for as much as I have, you know, kind of complained about my PhD experience, um, it is a lot bleaker in other places. And so, um, you know, even with my department now, I’m like, oh, I don’t know that I would bring in a student unless I had a grant because there are so many issues. Um, they kind of, they extend in in multiple ways. Um, yeah, I want elaborate on, on, on that more, but, um, you know, I’m having to kind of transition from thinking about, okay, what were my experiences to now? What would I want, um, a student to experience as, as my student

Emily (21:29): That’s very positive. <laugh> in terms of an outcome of your experience to yeah, be thinking about it. ‘Cause you know, with some, again, I mentioned distance earlier, the distance of time, some people do forget or start to romanticize, um, their own financial experiences during graduate school, um, when it benefits them to do so in terms of who are they gonna hire and how much are they gonna pay them and are they gonna negotiate and all these things. So I appreciate that, you know, you’re still close to the experience, but that you’re taking that mindset and saying, okay, maybe better not to hire anyone under these circumstances until I can provide for them in a way that you think is fair and sufficient to, you know, further their development. Of course, the research that you want them to do for your lab.

Dillon (22:11): Yeah, I think that communication sciences and disorders is a very interesting field because it can be situated in a lot of different places within a university. It can be in the College of Arts and Sciences, it can be in a college of education, uh, at Vanderbilt it was kind of, uh, part of the medical program and biomedical sciences. Um, and so each of those different placements kind of impacts the expectations and the ability for your students to get funded in ways that I think would be appropriate.

Emily (22:48): Yeah. So it’s definitely something to consider when you’re doing interdisciplinary work. Right.

Commercial

Emily (22:56): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, frugality, increasing income, or student loans, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer seminars and workshops on these topics and more in a variety of formats. This is a perfect time to book me for a workshop at the end of the current fiscal year or at the beginning of the upcoming academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, or postdoc office? My seminars are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Financial Challenges as a Tenure Track Faculty Member

Emily (24:21): Okay. Give us a picture of your finances. Now we know your salary. Where is it taking you? What are you doing in your financial life now that you have this position?

Dillon (24:32): Yeah. Um, it still feels very unsettled, um, because I just moved in August, um, I moved from the condo that I lived in Nashville to a house that I’m renting with my wife. Um, there were a lot of expenses with the move. Um, Florida State provided a sign-on bonus, but not, but that was, uh, it, it was, it took several, uh, weeks for that to be dispersed. So I had to put a lot of moving expenses on a credit card. Um, it took a while for our condo to sell, and so there was a short period of time where we were doing a mortgage plus rent, um, which was really tough. And then my wife, um, had to move jobs and so there was, um, you know, about four weeks where she wasn’t working. She’s just now working towards her first, uh, full paycheck. And so the, the coffers have have kind of been, been drained.

Dillon (25:37): And so, um, I feel like, you know, give it another six months and we might be in a better place, but it still feels very kind of unsettled. Um, and so even though I’ve, you know, gotten a, a pay raise, it really doesn’t feel like it, it almost feels like, um, like a step backwards as far as, um, just the amount of money that’s, that’s been laid out. Um, additionally, I am, um, paid for nine month salary, um, which previously was 12, right? And so, um, there’s a, uh, institutional grant that you can apply for that helps supplement your summer salary for your first year, but it doesn’t fully replace it. Um, and so I’m gonna have to just be basically saving money through the months in order to pay my own salary in the summer. Um, so that feels a little, a little scary.

Dillon (26:43): Um, hopefully, you know, I can supplement that with grants down the road, but that’s gonna take, you know, at at least a year or more to, to do. So, um, I am hoping to, um, buy a house in like May or June, so that will be another kind of like big major purchase. Um, and a again, a lot of money associated with, with that. So, um, and I’m ba- what I’ve, what I did is I kind of put the money from the condo into a, uh, like money market account. Um, and so I, I can’t and won’t touch that up until that point. Um, and so, um, yeah, it, it, it’s, it’s good to be starting fresh, but also there’s some aspects of it that, um, just take a while to sort out.

Emily (27:39): I’m really glad to have this message on the podcast as well of like a higher salary is not a panacea. Like, it’s, it’s helpful, definitely better than not being paid as much, but like, as you progress in your life and your career and your finances, also kind of the stakes get raised. Like we’re talking about home ownership, right? So like selling a condo and like buying a house. So like we’re trying to do an upgrade here, you know? Um, and so the expenses get raised too, and things like moving, uh, interruptions in pay because of career transitions, like all these things are normal things that happen. So it’s like, yeah, you have the higher salary, but like you said, it doesn’t quite feel much easier yet. And hopefully once you know, things settle down from the transition, the moves and all that, like, hopefully you will start to feel better about it.

Emily (28:26): But like, yeah, it can take some time for sure. Um, so it’s not an immediate fix necessarily. The postdoc salary probably felt better, right? ’cause you didn’t move, you probably didn’t have an interruption, um, in your paychecks or anything. And so it was just like, oh, immediately there’s more money. That’s great, right? But when you factor in these other things that happen at these different career stages would involve moving different cost of living different places. Yeah, it can, yeah, challenging, but I’m very hopeful for you and your wife and your future and these changes that you’re going to make and yeah, that you’ll figure out <laugh> the summer salary and the grants and subsequent years, and maybe this year will be the hardest year, right? Financially getting all this stuff sorted out. Um, is there anything else that you’d like to share about this stage and your finances or money mindset during this stage?

Dillon (29:12): I don’t think so. I think that, um, I kind of came into both my PhD and my faculty job with reasonable expectations, and I’m really grateful for getting to pursue this, you know, line of research that is meaningful to me that I feel like I’m making an im- an impact. Um, there’s certainly days or times that I’m like, man, I have so many interests and I chose this really niche thing that not a lot of people can relate to. Um, and that feels, you know, tough. But then there are times when I feel like, man, if I’m not doing this, I don’t know who else would be, or, um, I can help someone down the road that, um, if I wasn’t doing it, um, I’m not sure we would have that, that knowledge. Um, so even, even throughout my PhD, I had a roommate who was like, oh, you should, you should, you know, just go and work for Google and like their speech sciences that does voice recognition stuff and you’ll get paid way more and you’ll have a better life and blah, blah, blah.

Dillon (30:30): And, uh, I was kind of offended by that. I was like, yes, I probably could do that, but that would completely abandon this, you know, sort of dream and this motivation that made me do this in the first place. You know, I wasn’t working towards just a degree because it sounded cool, or that was just the next logical step. Like this was something that I literally planned out from my freshman year in college. Um, and so it was sort of like, you know, pursue that or go out in flames trying. Um, and I think that because my motivation was so personal, it made it easier to push through some of the hard times where, um, people that maybe lacked that a little bit, you start to look around because you’re like, well, what’s, what’s the why? And I think that that is important. It’s no wrong or right answer, but I think it, you’re going to be in situations where you confront that to varying de- degrees and, um, I’m just glad that, you know, mine has, has worked out the way that, that it has.

Emily (31:37): People are allowed to make different decisions around this, right? Like, yeah, you have this personal motivation, as you said, you’ve had a long-term plan, you’ve been executing, and this is at least the first stage of the culmination of that. Um, and certainly try it out. And if you decide it’s not all that it’s cracked up to be, then you can make a pivot at some other point. That’s totally fine. Um, yeah, but I, I’m also struck by like mission-driven people also need to be paid well enough to sustain what they’re doing. So I hope that is the case for you now that you’re in this, um, this level of your career. Um, so Dillon, it’s been an absolute pleasure talking with you and hearing your story, and I think there’s so many great nuggets that listeners can have gotten from this interview depending on what stage they’re at.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (32:23): Um, I wanna conclude with the question that I ask of all my guests, which is, what is your best financial advice for another early career PhD? And it can be something that we’ve touched on in the interview already, or it can be something completely new.

Dillon (32:35): I, I sometimes struggle with that because everybody’s different and what worked for me isn’t necessarily gonna work for everybody else. Um, but something that I got in the habit of that was a huge help was just tracking my spending and knowing, learning to know exactly what I could afford. Um, and that allowed me to make some choices that were trade offs, but at least I, I sort of knew the dollar amounts and how that would impact me. So, um, yeah, I, I think that because I was on this fixed amount for so long, I had kinda my core expenses that were paid for or that I could pay for, and then it was sort of, how do I play with the margins of that and what’s that going to go towards? Um, my, my wife went to law school and took out a lot of loans and she had a very different experience where she had such massive loans that she was like, oh, what’s a hundred dollars here or a hundred dollars there, it doesn’t really matter.

Dillon (33:45): And so she didn’t have that sort of fear of God into tracking her spending because she didn’t really have to. Um, but if you don’t do that in your PhD, you can kind of quickly accumulate things that will hurt you down the road. Um, so it’s not fun, but I could kind of, after a few years, I could kind of be like, oh, alright, I have approximately, you know, $400 to appropriate this month. Where’s that gonna go and how am I gonna do it? Um, and if I know there’s something, you know, five months down the road that I’m gonna do, I can try to segment as little as I could to put towards that. Um, controversial take here is that I feel like I leveraged credit cards very well. Um, I was not a crazy points guy, but I definitely took advantage of a lot of, um, signup offers.

Dillon (34:49): I was very good about paying off my credit cards, um, for the, for the most part unless there was like a 0% APR card that I basically took out specifically for that reason. Um, and so that gave me a little bit more money. It gave me a little more flexibility, having a zero interest essentially loan. Um, and then that also did help build my credit through time. So I have a credit history that’s lengthy and positive and, you know, they’re fairly good amount of it. In fact, I was always shocked that these credit cards were granted to me for, you know, $10,000 and I’m like, I can barely afford my groceries at the end of the month and you’re just giving me 10 grand. Like, that’s crazy. But if you do it right, you can, you can make that work. Um, again, that was a super intentional and thoughtful process that I did, and you can have that go sideways really, really quickly. Um, so it’s not exactly advice for everyone, but if you can kind of thread the needle, there are good things that can come.

Emily (36:05): Well, I think the second, I don’t wanna call it advice, but the second suggestion or, you know, modeling what you did follows very well from the first you have to master and understand your own spending and develop some intuition around that before you go into, um, playing with fire a little bit, <laugh>, which is, you know, the, the credit card games and so forth you can play because the temptation with credit cards, you know, using plastic in general and then doubly, so if there’s like a benefit, you know, points or sign up bonuses or whatever, there really is a little pull there to spend more than you would if you were using other forms of payment. And so, but if you have that knowledge and intuition and the budget or whatever it is that you’re doing to kind of keep your spending in line and on track, then you can do that successfully, which it sounds like you did.

Emily (36:51): Um, so I’m very glad to hear that that worked out for you. The Points game is not, uh, controversial on this podcast, so it’s something that we’ve talked about with other graduate students and I do think it’s one of the ways that people can find a little bit more wiggle room in their spending, uh, when they’re living on a low stipend like you were. Um, so Dillon, again, it’s been such a pleasure to have you. Thank you for sharing all this, uh, with us, especially these sort of behind the scenes things and emotional things that were going on with you through these unpleasant, you know, sometimes unpleasant things that happened. Um, I just think it’s a really honest window into the graduate student experience, the PhD experience, so thank you so much for sharing it with us.

Dillon (37:28): Yeah, glad that I can share.

Outro

Emily (37:44): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

Filed Under: Career Transitions Tagged With: audio, grad student, income, job transition, money story, PhD with a Real Job, postdoc, Real Job, transcript, video

Financial Chaos Exacerbates a Low Graduate Student Stipend

April 6, 2026 by Jill Hoffman Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Dr. Dillon Pruett, an assistant professor in the School of Communication Science and Disorders at Florida State University. This is the first part of a two-part interview in which we discuss Dillon’s financial journey through his PhD and postdoc at Vanderbilt University. Dillon tried to keep his eyes on his own financial paper, but the pay disparity between himself and other graduate students and postdocs was repeatedly brought to his attention. Still, he managed to make it through without accumulating debt and even building modest assets, despite financial setbacks. Dillon’s candor during this conversation is laudable, and his experiences are likely to be both relatable and a cautionary tale for prospective and early graduate students.

Links mentioned in the Episode

  • PF for PhDs Tax Workshops (Individual Purchase)
  • PF for PhDs Tax Center for PhDs-in-Training
  • PhD Stipends Database
  • PF for PhDs Subscribe to Mailing List
  • PF for PhDs Podcast Hub
Financial Chaos Exacerbates a Low Graduate Student Stipend

Teaser

Dillon (00:00): So literally to this day, every single payday I log in the morning of to see that it hits because I am just scarred from this, from not getting paid. And my wife thinks I’m crazy because she’s like, why are you so obsessed with this payday thing? I’m like, you don’t understand how crazy that was to to deal with.

Introduction

Emily (00:30): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (00:59): This is Season 23, Episode 7, and today my guest is Dr. Dillon Pruett, an assistant professor in the School of Communication Science and Disorders at Florida State University. This is the first part of a two-part interview in which we discuss Dillon’s financial journey through his PhD and postdoc at Vanderbilt University. Dillon tried to keep his eyes on his own financial paper, but the pay disparity between himself and other graduate students and postdocs was repeatedly brought to his attention. Still, he managed to make it through without accumulating debt and even building modest assets, despite financial setbacks. Dillon’s candor during this conversation is laudable, and his experiences are likely to be both relatable and a cautionary tale for prospective and early graduate students.

Emily (01:49): The tax year 2025 version of my tax return preparation workshop, How to Complete Your PhD Trainee Tax Return (and Understand It, Too!), is now available! This pre-recorded educational workshop explains how to identify, calculate, and report your higher education-related income and expenses on your federal tax return. Whether you are a graduate student, postdoc, or postbac, domestic or international, there is a version of this workshop designed just for you. I do license these workshops to universities, but in the case that yours declines your request for sponsorship, you can purchase the appropriate version as an individual. Go to PFforPhDs.com/taxreturnworkshop/ to read more details and purchase the workshop. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s23e7/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Dr. Dillon Pruett. 

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

Emily (03:03): I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today, Dr. Dillon Pruett, who is an assistant professor at Florida State University. And today we are getting a financial journey, starting at undergrad, going through grad school, through postdoc into this first faculty position. And Dillon’s gonna tell us about his experiences and um, maybe some things that didn’t match with his expectations in each one of those stages. So, Dillon, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Will you please introduce yourself further for the audience and give a little bit of your academic background?

Dillon (03:34): Sure. I am Dillon Pruett and I’m an assistant professor in the School of Communication Science and Disorders at Flori- at Florida State. Um, I study stuttering and I also stu stutter. Um, my main area of research is the genetics of, of stuttering. Um, so yeah, I’m happy to kinda just walk through my experiences in undergrad, graduate school, postdoc through my tenure track job now.

How College Costs Shaped Dr. Pruett’s Undergrad Choices

Emily (04:06): Great. And we’re gonna leave this pretty open-ended kind of at each one of these stages I wanted to talk about what was your income like, what was your, what were your assets and liabilities like at each stage? Um, how, how was your lifestyle? What was your money mindset? Um, did you have any goals or did you have any financial habits at each stage? So really we’re gonna leave it kind of open ’cause I would imagine there’s gonna be an evolution across these different stages. But take us back to undergrad and tell us about your finances at that stage.

Dillon (04:33): Yeah. Um, I attended the University of Washington in Seattle. Um, and finances really were a dri a driving factor in that choice. Um, both of my parents grew up in, uh, blue collar house holds. Um, they both attended a regional state school, uh, at a time when you could work a part-time job and mostly pay your tuition, um, with not a lot of loans. Um, and so growing up my parents, you know, uh, repeatedly said that they would do what ef- effort they could to support me, um, in going to my dream school. And, um, that was really awesome that that was their orientation. Uh, but they didn’t really have a lot of understanding of the costs of college. Um, and so I was accepted to UCLA and Cal Berkeley, uh, soon after the financial crisis of 2008, uh, when a lot of those large state schools were increasing their out-of-state enrollment, uh, but not offering a lot of merit or need-based, uh, scholarships for out of state students. Um, and so my parents were, uh, pretty appro, appropriately shocked by the cost and essentially forbade me from taking out, uh, these massive loans to go to school. Um, and that was really disappointing at the time. Uh, but the University of Washington was, uh, affordable and my parents were really pushed for that. Uh, and so looking back, I can really see the logic of the decision. Um, but at at that age in time I was, I was kind of bummed.

Emily (06:14): And were you living in Washington? Is that where you’re from?

Dillon (06:17): I was, yeah. So, um, I’m from Puyallup, which is maybe, uh, 45 miles south. Um, so it felt like I wasn’t really truly getting away from home. Um, a lot of students that I went to high school with were going there as well. Um, so honestly I wasn’t in like the best, you know, mindset going into undergrad just because of the disappointments that kinda led up to that stage. Um, but again, like in hindsight, I really have come to appreciate, um, how things have unfolded and the fact that I didn’t take out massive loans at at at that time.

Emily (06:57): I have to say, I had a very similar experience growing up. My parents both went to like, you know, public universities, um, and they told me, go wherever <laugh> we’ll help you. And they weren’t prepared for that, you know, for actually what the sticker price was for my generation. Right. Um, and I’m doing something different with my children. I live in California, and so I’m really talking up the uc system, like, whoa, it would be amazing to go to one of these schools. So like, I’m setting their expectations in that direction.

Dr. Pruett’s Career and Research Interests During Undergrad

Dillon (07:28): Yeah. Yeah, I mean it’s, it’s interesting just the difference that a generation made and the costs. And you know, like I said, my parents had a great experience. They didn’t take out these massive loans. They really, um, did what, what what they could to, um, put themselves through school. Um, I don’t know. There was a whole lot that I could do personally to replicate that, um, in this day and age. Um, but so I started college around the time that the movie, the King’s Speech came out, which if you’re not familiar, um, the movie is a historical drama that details, uh, great Britain’s King George, the six and his struggle with stuttering during the time of World, world War II. And, uh, that movie really marked the first time that I confronted Stu Stu stuttering and came to the terms, uh, there was something I was gonna have to deal with for the rest of my life and not something that I could just ignore.

Dillon (08:25): Uh, and I had also started, um, working in a research lab at the university that was looking at genetics. Um, and so I was kind of interested in like, the idea of applying gen gen, gen gen genetics to s to stuttering. One of the known facts was a risk factor for stuttering is if you have family me members who also stu stutter. So that kind of hints at the idea that there might be specific genetic factors in, in involved. Um, so I reached out to a professor at the university who specialized in stuttering and said, Hey, you know, this, uh, is kinda a new area for the field, um, but there’s not a lot of people that are specializing in, in in it. And so that kind of sparked my interest that this could be a way for me to pursue a career and contribute to the field and try to answer, you know, some of these ques questions that I had growing up as a kid.

Dillon (09:28): Um, and so that kind of set my path from about my, uh, sophomore year on and, um, I would meet with my college advisors to make sure that I was taking coursework in both hearing and speech sciences and in biology to kind of get a comprehensive grounding in what I was hoping to pursue. And for the most part, my advisors were very complimentary and, you know, thought it was great that I had, um, such a specific interest and a drive to do it. And, um, they always said, oh, well, there’s really no, no wrong way to pursue this. And I was kinda like, uh, you know, maybe there’s no right way to do it, but there’s probably some, some wrong ways to go about it. Um, but moving forward to the end of my undergrad, I was making a decision whether I wanted to get a master’s in speech language pathology, which is a more clinical degree, versus going, uh, right into a PhD, which of course is more research oriented.

Dillon (10:37): And, um, after kinda weighing the options and talking to, to some people, I opt, I opted to go into the PhD route. Um, and then I had this debate about whether it was gonna be something that I was focused specifically on, uh, stuttering kind of more in a niche communication sciences and disorders field, or if I was gonna be, I’m a little bit more broad and do something genetic specific. And, um, again, after talking to some people in, in the field, um, I felt that like if I could be in a position and I could sort of do both at the same time, that would be really, really, really great. So, um, I applied to three different pro programs for my PhD. Uh, Vanderbilt was my top choice, and they did a really awesome job of making me feel like I could pursue this research even though it wasn’t necessarily my mentor’s area of expertise. Um, and their program was part of a, like biomedical sciences umbrella where there were a lot of resources that were shared that were available to students that really made me feel like this was a doable path to pursue. Um, and so that was kind of my path that led me into my Ph, PhD.

Finances During Undergrad and Grad School

Emily (11:59): Okay. I wanna talk about this transition point into the PhD, but I wanna catch us up on what was going on financially during undergrad. We talked about the decision to go to an in-state public university. That makes sense. Did you end up taking on student loan debt, for example? Or like what was the mix of funding that you ended up with for your undergraduate degree?

Dillon (12:16): Yeah, I had a lot of private scholarships, um, totaling probably nearly $20,000. That went quite a long way in, um, paying for my tuition. Um, my parents were able to help with the rest. Um, I also worked throughout undergrad, so I had a couple different jobs. Uh, one was in the research lab where I was paid, um, hourly for, uh, a variety of of jobs. Um, I also worked in a medical clin clinic. Um, I also worked as a tutor. Um, so I was always kind of looking for ways to make money, but that was really just to provide for spending money. So I wasn’t, I wasn’t saving, I wasn’t investing. Um, it was really like, Hey, can I go out on a Friday night and have fun with my friends? Awesome. Um, and so yeah, I, I didn’t have a lot of discretionary money, but uh, it didn’t feel I was in a, a peer group where that was pretty common. You know, we’re all, we’re all college kids. We all don’t have a whole lot. So, um, it wasn’t necessarily, um, an issue at that point.

Emily (13:35): So it sounds like you were cash flowing, right? You weren’t taking out debt, you weren’t building up savings or other types of assets, but between the scholarships and your parents’ support and your jobs, you were just making it semester to semester, is that right?

Dillon (13:48): Yeah, yeah, that’s what I would would say.

Emily (13:51): Yeah. That makes total sense. Tons of college students live that way. And then in that transition to graduate school, were you thinking about the finances? Were you thinking about the stipend that you were offered? Obviously you just, you know, said why you picked Vanderbilt because of, you know, the research considerations, but were, were there any financial considerations at that stage?

Dillon (14:09): Yes. Um, the program at Vanderbilt offered a stipend that was the highest. And so that combined with the program really made it seem like that was far and away the best choice. Um, the stipend was for roughly $23,000 a year. Um, and that was from university funds. Um, and there was nothing written that said that it was restricted for any number of years. There was some language that said that as long as you’re making progress and doing well in the program, you will be supportive. And we have a track record of supporting our students through gradu- through through graduation. So that, um, was really great to, to see and to hear, because that’s not always the case, even in funded PhD programs, sometimes only for four years, sometimes only for five years. Um, and so that, that felt like, oh, all right, like this is gonna be something that I can depend on.

Dillon (15:20): Um, but I will say that, um, it became apparent pretty quickly that there was some discrepancies in the stipends that were offered. Um, so as I mentioned before, the hearing and speech sciences program at Vanderbilt is part of the larger biomedical sciences umbrella. And so at the beginning of the PhD, um, they have essentially like these onboarding workshops where they’re introducing you to how to be a PhD student. And one of the presentations was on personal finance. And they essentially took, um, a month, a month, a month, a monthly stip stipend and broke it down into all of the amount that you could be expected to pay for housing, food, insurance, all of that. And they kind of like zeroed it out and they’re like, all right, like, see, it looks like you can live within your means if you’re following this. Well, the stipend amount that they had on this giant screen in front of the auditorium was like five grand more than what our program was being paid.

Dillon (16:33): And so it was sort of like, oh, okay, yeah, great. I guess if I’m in these other programs, I can make it do, but we’re just supposed to go into debt if we’re getting less money. Um, and so that I understand the different programs had different compensation, there’s a variety of reasons why, but that was, it felt a little bit like it was getting thrown in in our face in that moment that we were, we, we were less than. Um, so wasn’t great. Um, but that being said, I was still in a very privileged situation where I did have more support than I would’ve had at other places. So I’m grateful for it. Um, but there were also just all kinds of other sort of financial issues that popped up in the first few years.

Emily (17:24): That’s a good lesson for me as a financial educator to take away. I do normally ask or look up what the stipends are before I give example numbers or speak somewhere. But, um, yeah, that’s interesting. I’ve, I’ve never done that approach of like, here’s your budget. Um, I’m more like, ask the audience like, what are you spending in these areas? Or like, what do you think is reasonable or what have you, but I can totally see how that would not have been helpful or encouraging for you at that stage. Um, but I wanna know for one more second about, um, this 23K that you were starting with your first year stipend. Remind us what year that was.

Dillon (18:01): So that was 2015.

Emily (18:02): Okay. Um, so you’re starting at 23K and you said it came from university funds. Um, does that mean that you had an assistantship of some type? Does that mean you were on like fellowship? Were there work requirements tied to this? Or like what was the nature of the funding?

Dillon (18:16): Yeah, so I think it was technically called a research traineeship. And I don’t know if that’s a common term that’s shared across different programs or that’s sort of unique. Um, it didn’t seem to come with many strings attached as far as certain number of hours. I had to meet I think 20 hours a week, um, of work within my research lab. But that was sort of like something you talked about with your PI, and it was really just kind of set as the bare minimum number of hours that as a PhD student you should be putting in. Um, and it was flexible in a way that’s like, if you’re studying for finals, you’re not gonna be putting in those same amount of hours. Or if you have, um, and especially busy week with research participants, you might just have to do that. You know, you’re not gonna nec necessarily say, oh, I’m at my 20, I can’t come in.

Dillon (19:13): Um, so I had other peers that had a lot more strings attached to their funding. And some of that was because it wasn’t university funding, it was, um, from particular grants that, um, like for instance, if they, they were getting paid and they needed to go into some kind of, um, public interest type field or else they would have to forfeit some of their, um, stip like stipend back in the future. I, I wasn’t privy to all of the different funding streams and all of the different, um, I don’t know, stipulations. Um, but I just know that that mine was pretty unrestricted and flexible.

Emily (20:05): And was that a 12 month stipend, the 23k, or was it meant to be like just the academic year or anything like that?

Dillon (20:12): Yeah, so that is another, uh, aspect that I didn’t appreciate at the time, but I certainly do now is that was 12 months and so it was just divided into 12 paychecks. And um, that’s, that’s how you paid rent. That’s how you paid for groceries. There was not supposed to be any interruptions. Um, but as I’ll explain, we did have several occurrences of times when things kind of went awry and we had some things to work through.

Emily (20:45): I wanna get there, but one more question. You’re sitting in that orientation and you’re looking at this example with 5K more in stipend than what you’re actually receiving. Did you make a plan? Like, was your plan, okay, I need 5K in student loans, or was your plan, okay, I need a side hustle for 5K? Or was your plan I need to live on less than what they’re saying up there? Like how did, how did it strike you as like, how were you gonna move forward?

Dillon (21:08): Yeah, I think immediately I went too, like I need a side hustle. And then second to that it was, okay, I’m gonna have to live on less than what they say I can. So that means spending less on groceries than they say that means less on, um, miscellaneous expenses and they say it means I might have to work harder to find a place that’s acceptable, that is less rent. Um, so all of those things.

Emily (21:36): I wanna ask about the rent for a second. ’cause one of the, I guess I’ll say issues I have with this kind of presentation in orientation, and I’ve done these kind of presents during presentations, during orientations, is that you’ve already made some decisions, <laugh>, you’ve already made your housing decision at least probably for a year lease. You’ve probably made your transportation decision if you own or whatever, you know, with your car. So like what’s immediately changeable is already like restricted, you know what I mean? So when you were looking at that like pie chart or whatever they showed you, was your rent already less than what they were accounting for? Like, how were you even doing at that? Like, you’re off the starting block already.

Dillon (22:12): So thankfully, yes, my rent already was less. Um, I was fortunate to find, find a house that was less expensive, but that came with some trade offs. So it was not a nice place. Um, I was in like a little Harry Potter room with a shared bathroom. Um, at various points in time. We had mice infestations, we had cricket in infestations. Um, but it, it was enough. And as a a young grad student, I wasn’t particularly bothered by it. It was in a very nice neighborhood. Um, it was close to campus. Our house was just kinda like the black sheep of the block. Um, but we, we made it work and at that point in time, I think I was probably paying about 550 a month in rent. And, um, I mean there’s, it’s really hard to find a place in Nashville for less than a thousand now. So, um, that was a, a, a huge help in that first year with feeling like, okay, um, you know, I’m not paying for one of the nicer places with a pool and other amenities. I’m, but it also wasn’t, um, a place that you would, you know, have your parents stay for very long or, uh, want to be in for extended periods of time.

Emily (23:41): Okay, I get the picture.

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Emily (23:45): Emily here for a brief interlude! Tax season is in full swing, and the best place to go for information tailored to you as a grad student, postdoc, or postbac, is PFforPhDs.com/tax/. From that page I have linked to all of my free tax resources, many of which I have updated for this tax year. On that page you will find podcast episodes, videos, and articles on all kinds of tax topics relevant to PhDs and PhDs-to-be. There are also opportunities to join the Personal Finance for PhDs mailing list to receive PDF summaries and spreadsheets that you can work with. Again, you can find all of these free resources linked from PFforPhDs.com/tax/. Now back to the interview.

PhD Funding Issues at Vanderbilt University

Emily (24:33): Well go on and tell us about these, these issues that you’ve alluded to that kind of cropped over up over the next few years.

Dillon (24:43): Yeah, so, um, I wanna say it was probably 2016, um, where Vanderbilt University decided to legally separate from the medical center and ba basically create two distinct legal entities, even though there’s a lot of overlap between them, um, and being in the biomedical sciences program, um, there’s really not like a fine line that divides them. It, it’s, it’s, it’s messy. You have professors that are appointed through the medical program, but then the graduate students are through the university. And then so it was, it was, it was just messy. Um, but the end result that really impacted students was that, uh, stipends were not dispensed when they should have been. So we’re all waiting, uh, you know, the first of the month for this paycheck to hit and it didn’t. And so, you know, that means that people can’t pay rent, they can’t pay for groceries.

Dillon (25:51): And that was a really big deal and there didn’t seem to be an appropriate outcry from the university to be like, oh my God, we need to solve this. There were students who were literally sitting in the office of the dean and they were not gonna move until they got paid. And so in that period of of time, um, you know, I was on my stipend each month, there’s no savings and so I had to take out, you know, loans for my parents just to pay, pay the rent. Um, and it was sorted out after a couple of weeks, but that’s still a really long time for students to wait when they’re expecting it and relying on it. Um, and in the process of me trying to like personally figure it out, um, I was talking to some people in ad in administration that were in the larger biomedical science sciences umbrella, and when they saw my stipend, they were like, oh, like you, you should be getting paid more than that because that’s below like our floor.

Dillon (26:53): And I was thinking like, mm, no, I don’t think so. I mean, sure, if you wanna pay me more, go ahead, but like that money comes from somewhere. And so, um, lo and behold, when I did get paid, I had a few hundred dollars that were added to what I was supposed to get. And so I was like, oh, okay, awesome. Um, and I used that extra money to pay down some of my credit cards and thought, well, great, some, something about this, you know, bifurcation has leveled things out. Well, I got a notice like a week or two later saying that I was actually overpaid and that I owed that money back to the university and I needed to write them a check to pay them back. And so I was like, are you kidding me? Not only is my stipend late, but you told me I was gonna get paid more.

Dillon (27:50): I didn’t believe you, then you paid me more and then I spent it, and then you’re telling me that was a mistake. So it was absolute chaos and I’m just grateful that I had a family that I could rely on for help in this time, but that is in no way the way that grad school should work. That you should have to have your students be taking out money from family in order to get their living expenses met. Um, and so literally to this day, every single payday I log in the morning of to see that it hits because I am just scarred from this, from not getting paid. And my wife thinks I’m crazy because she’s like, why are you so obsessed with this payday thing? I’m like, you don’t understand how crazy that was to, to deal with. And so it was probably, you know, four to five weeks before it was all sorted out. But, um, I don’t know. I feel like in, maybe in, if that had happened maybe five or 10 years later, I think like Twitter would’ve just like lit on fire with the, with the problems.

Emily (29:00): That is, um, one of the more egregious stories I’ve ever heard on the podcast that is saying something, uh, because universities are often disorganized. Um, but it, it seems to go a little bit even beyond the disorganization, like yeah, planning for that legal split, but not planning for the continuity with your, now I don’t know if I wanna say that, were you actually an employee? ‘Cause it’s even more egregious if you were actually an employee. Were you on W2 income or was it like non W2?

Dillon (29:32): That was another transition. Is that prior to that split? Um, I did not have any taxes withheld. I did not have a W2 and we were kind of told, yeah, this is like, we can’t give you advice on it, but it’s a legal gray area. Um, my mom’s an accountant and she had some people look into it and we’re like, okay, yeah, I think we’re fine ’cause it’s an educational disbursement, blah, blah, blah. Not gonna get into all of that. But following the switch, it did start, I, I did start receiving a W-2 with tax withholdings and that I think was actually helpful because it made it not this like gray area obscure, do I, do I not kind of thing. And it would’ve looked really weird if I didn’t file like a real return for years and years. Um, so, but that meant that like my kind of take home pay once you take away taxes decreased from what I was used to.

Emily (30:37): Okay, we’ll leave that there. Longtime listeners know how I feel about this. Um, but yeah, I, I guess I can understand the disorganization a little bit more because there was not actually a legal obligation to pay y’all on time if you were not on W2 yet. Not that that should have happened at all, but it’s just something I’ve heard of at other places of like, you have more protections if you’re like a legal employee, like W2 type employee. Obviously if there’s a union involved, there’s more protection. So like, just something to keep in mind, <laugh>, when you’re figuring out where your stipend is coming from that like sometimes problems do arise with fellowship income that wouldn’t ari- or what I call fellowship income, which wouldn’t arise if you were on like W2 income either way, terribly sorry that that happened to you <laugh>. And like, and like you were saying, because you were on such a low stipend in the first place, it, you didn’t have the ability to build up the financial security for yourself to prepare for, you know, adverse events, whatever they are. But for the adverse event to come from your funder, uh, it’s terrible. Okay, so the end result of this is that you’re on W2 income, your income has stayed the same, but you’ve started paying income tax, so your take home pay is less, is that right?

Dillon (31:48): Exactly, yes.

Emily (31:50): Ugh. After the chaos of those few, uh, those handful of weeks, I don’t blame you for having residual trauma over this. I would do the exact same thing. <laugh>.

Dillon (31:57): Yeah, well that was actually another, um, disparity between the different departments in the larger umbrella program because they actually received, uh, cost of living increases each year, and they also received, um, boosts when the incoming classes would get boosted up. So, um, a lot of my peers in the other department, you know, they were gradually making more and more money each year. Not that that actually, you know, as the cost of living went up, it’s not like they’re making a whole lot more, but it was enough to offset it just a bit. Um, whereas our department did not do that. And we had what whatever was in your contract that you signed when you started was what you would make all the way through.

Emily (32:45): Oh, so incoming classes were making more, but you stayed the same.

Dillon (32:50): Exactly. There were people heard that were entering after I started in my department that eventually were making more because the university made a conscious eff effort to boost PhD stipends. And so as all of this chatter is going on, I’m like, oh, we wanna get to 30K for all students. I was like, well that’s, that’s not impacting me. Like that’s, that’s great that the new students get that. Um, so another sort of instance where I felt like we were not, um, compensated in the ways that other students were. Um, and sort of just one more example of that, um, the sort of field of communication sciences and disorders, um, depending on what you study can be very interdisciplinary. So, um, there was a research lab that was focused on autism and you could enter that research lab either through sort of the more clinical hearing and speech sciences route, or you could enter through neuroscience and go that route.

Dillon (34:01): So you’re working the same research lab doing very similar work, but depending which route you took to enter the lab, you could get paid five or 10 grand different per year. And that is something that students learned and something that the PI learned. And so it was sort of like, oh, well, if you want to do this research, maybe you should enter through neuroscience and we’ll accept you through that way. Um, and I don’t know the details of it and how I think it was a point of contention within the department. I’m not privy to all of the details, but, um, I know that for students that was something that, that mattered. Um, and I don’t know what the, I don’t know what the current state of that is, but it was sort of like, well, I, I get it because individually it helps you to go through this route and you just get paid more. But if you’re trying to, you know, recruit for your own department and, um, you know, feel like that’s what’s, you know, kind of funding a lot of their research, um, you could see why, you know, the, the, the chair would feel that maybe you should do it a certain way.

Emily (35:13): You are presenting all of this in a fairly dispassionate manner. I mean, you have the, uh, the benefit of time having passed since these events, but like what was the effect on your emotions around your money? Were you feeling incredibly discouraged? Were you like doubling down? Like how did this, yeah, how did you feel about it as you discovered and as you went through these various events?

Dillon (35:37): Um, I really just tried as best I could to have the mentality of I was keeping my eyes on my own page because I knew that if I, I could get so wrapped up into this stuff, but I had so little ability to change it that I just didn’t even wanna focus on that. So I was sort of like, Hey, you know what I’m getting by. I’m doing what I want to do. I’m going to try to do what I can to make it through best I can. And um, if there were opportunities to offer feedback, I would certainly engage in that, but I wasn’t going out of my way, um, to, you know, negotiate on my own behalf or to really get too, too invested in these other areas. And you know, I think there’s, even though I feel like we maybe had some very visible examples of that in our department, um, it’s pretty common even within programs that don’t have these bigger issues, they have students that get a topper on their stip on their stipend, and they don’t want other pe- people to know that. Or maybe they do want other pe- people to know that. And, um, I, I don’t know. I just have always thought that money is, is a tough thing in especially the PhD space because there’s not a lot of it, and it’s all people that are trying to establish themselves. And I always thought it was better to just push that out and try to, you know, think about relating as, as, as peers and not having that be a barrier. Um, it’s obviously frustrated me enough where I’m now speaking that out on podcast 10 years later. Um, but uh, the way I tried to deal with it at the time was to ignore it as best as po- as best as possible.

Emily (37:28): I definitely understand that as like a self-protective instinct. Like, like you said, it’s actually pretty healthy. Like keep your eye on your own page. That’s great. It’s a great mindset in personal finance generally, it’s harder when you’re being paid so little that like survival, you know, comfortable life is, uh, on the line there with that distinction, but it just, for me, reemphasizes not, not at all that I’m criticizing you, I totally understand why you took that self-protective route, but it reemphasizes for me that anybody who has the ability to do any advocacy or any kind of privileged position, um, from which to do any advocacy, um, please do it if you’re able to, um, and advocate on behalf of your peers. Because this is something that’s tricky about individual negotiation is like, okay, like you should advocate for yourself. Yes. Um, but is it ultimately going to, you know, lift all boats with a rising tide?

Emily (38:21): Like we need to make sure that everybody, even people who aren’t able to advocate for themselves, can benefit when people do ask for more. Um, one of the huge benefits of the larger unionization movement going on among graduate students, and I just wanna also make a plug for pay transparency, um, through, for example, my website, PhDstipends.com. Um, if you’re able to have these conversations, if you’re able to advocate, please do not everyone is able to, in your case, you are such on the lower stipend end of that spectrum. I totally understand why you took, you know, why you had the reaction that you did of just like, I gotta get through this. I’m investing my career. I can’t, you know, be distracted by all these pay disparities that I’m seeing. Is there anything else that you’d like to share with us about this graduate student stage of your financial journey?

Dillon (39:11): I guess that, you know, I, I did constantly feel like I was making these tough trade-offs that, you know, as I was getting into 26, 27, 28 years old, I had peers who had been working in their jobs for, you know, five, six years or making pretty good money. And I had to say no to things. And it was tough. You know, I had a friend who had a bachelor party in Vegas that I had to say no to because I just couldn’t afford to have that put entirely on a credit card. I didn’t have $3,000 to spend. Um, and that’s kind of a life event that, um, you know, I would’ve loved to have been there for. Um, and I kept telling myself, I’m in this investment stage, you know, this is just kind of the way that things are. Um, but as you get farther along in your PhD, um, it’s almost like it gets harder to keep that mindset because when you’re really gung-ho you’re just starting your 22, 23, 24, a lot of your peers are just starting out too.

Dillon (40:23): And so you’re just, you know, doing the cool thing to get your PhD, but towards the end when you’re older, um, you just feel that weight a little bit more of like, man, I, I got to get this done. I’m still not at the point where I want to be as a independent young adult. Um, and so, you know, it, it did weigh on me having to, you know, make these decision and not even like the big ones, right? Like even the decisions about going out to dinner with, with friends or something like that, you know, I couldn’t always afford going out to a $75 dinner because that meant that the end of the month I wouldn’t have money for groceries. Um, and then socially, you know, just dating wise, I know there’s a lot of, uh, people, people who might, you know, you know, really scoff at the idea of like a coffee date or a happy hour date is being cheap, or it doesn’t show your initiative or doesn’t show your seriousness.

Dillon (41:30): Um, and that just like hurt me so much because I was like, oh, well, like, I don’t know. That’s, that’s the most that I can do in a situation where I’m just trying to get to know you. And that is, even, even for, for those things is, is something that is gonna impact what I can do down the road for this this month. Um, so yeah, it, it, it’s, it’s those types of choices that, um, you get kind of like used to, but it still is something that that hurts. Um, and I feel like I did a pretty good job of balancing that, um, as best I could. Like I, I did go out in Nashville and would go to Broadway and, you know, we’d go to concerts, so it wasn’t like I was just, you know, in the lab studying or at home the, the whole time, but I had to be very kind of strategic about how I did it and when I did it. And, um, that was kind of what helped me get by.

Emily (42:35): I think what you’re saying is so relatable, and I really hope that your message gets to prospective graduate students and early on graduate students that like, like you said, like at the beginning, you’re living a little bit on your enthusiasm <laugh>, and then as the years draw by the sacrifices that you’re having to make small or large are just like piling up on top of each other and you’re like, okay, when is this stage going to be done and when am I going to be done with this lifestyle that I have at the moment? Um, I wanna get to that transition point between, um, graduate school and your postdoc. Tell me about your balance sheet as it was. Had you built up any savings over the course of graduate school? Had you built up any debt over the course of graduate school? Um, what was your kind of ending financial picture?

Buying a House in Nashville During Grad School

Dillon (43:27): I really did not build up much savings or debt, so I was really living pretty much paycheck to paycheck. Um, I started a Roth IRA, um, partway through grad school and was putting in like 50 or a hundred bucks a month in months where I could afford it. Um, and, you know, didn’t really amount to much. Um, I, I had a bit of credit card debt, but through the kind of COVID years, um, I really focused on, okay, well, I’m not going out, I’m not doing these things. Um, so I was able to pay that down to basically zero. Um, so that, that was, was huge. Um, sort of the, the side bar to this story, um, is that I knew when I started my PhD that Nashville real estate was, was going crazy. And so I was like, well, hey, if I’m gonna be here for at least five years, maybe more, um, this seems like something that I should take advantage of.

Dillon (44:40): And so I convinced my parents that this was doable without too much of a down payment and that this would be an investment both for myself and for them. Um, and so through an FHA loan, um, with my parents, I, uh, bought like a little condo, um, in this little old building, and the plan was that I was going to have a roommate with me all throughout my graduate school, and the roommate and I together would pay that mortgage. Um, and so that was in hindsight, you know, a really good move. Again, I had the support of my family that that enabled me to do that, that I couldn’t have done alone. Um, but wrapped up into that was some expenses that like a renter wouldn’t have to pay. So, uh, we had to replace the hot water heater, we had to replace the hvac, um, had to replace the microwave, um, had some issues with plumbing, all of that.

Dillon (45:45): Um, and so that is kind of where any kind of extra cash that I would’ve had, um, was put towards. Um, but I think that the end result was that, um, when I ended up selling that before I moved, you know, I was getting a good chunk of change back that if I hadn’t bought a place, um, would’ve just been lost to, to rent. And so, um, my wife and I have not purchased a house yet, but the profit from that is gonna be our down payment. And so we, we’ve kind of flipped, you know, the condo into a down payment, uh, for our next home. And so, um, that’s not really advice that I could recommend to anyone anywhere, um, but at, at, at the time, that is in hindsight, a pretty important move that I made. Um, so I’m, I’m grateful that it worked out because that’s not a guarantee.

Emily (46:49): Yeah. So it sounds like you, you were again, cash flowing, just kind of making it month to month, and yet you had these small investments that you even discounted at the start of our conversation, but, you know, you had the Roth IRA occasional contributions that you had, um, the ownership of a home, which cashflow wise, you know, maybe that’s helpful or maybe it’s not, but eventually over the long term, you can expect some kind of equity from that which you’ve received. So that’s really great. And like you said, um, I think graduate students and PhDs at any stage just have to look frankly at their situation. What’s the real estate market, the rental market, the buying market, what’s the income? What assets do you have? What resources do you have? Like you had your parents you knew that you could at least pitch them on, you know, making an investment in this with you. Um, and just look at all those factors and, you know, keep your mind open as to what might be possible in terms of home ownership or, or renting, whatever it is. Um, I, I don’t sort of dismiss home ownership out of hand for graduate students. It just, like you said, at certain times, certain places, certain people, it can, you know, be a possibility, but it’s a, the stars kind of have to align to make it happen.

Dillon (48:01): Sure. Yeah.

Emily (48:07): That is the end of part 1 of this interview! Tune in next time for part 2 in which we discuss Dillon’s faculty job search and financial transition to Florida State University.

Outro

Emily (48:22): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

Filed Under: Income Tagged With: advocacy, audio, funding, grad student, home ownership, money story, stipend, transcript, video

Teaching Personal Finance Illuminates the Opportunity Cost of a PhD

March 23, 2026 by Jill Hoffman Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Dr. Trevor Hedberg, an assistant professor of practice at the University of Arizona who teaches a seminar on personal finance to undergrad students based on Morgan Housel’s The Psychology of Money. Trevor is a repeat podcast guest, and he shares how teaching the course has made him think differently about finances during his PhD and postdoc, including the financial opportunity cost of grad school and lifetime wealth killers.

Links mentioned in the Episode

  • Dr. Trevor Hedberg’s Website
  • Learn more about Dr. Trevor Hedberg’s research
  • PF for PhDs Tax Workshops (Individual Purchase)
  • PF for PhDs Tax Workshops (Sponsored)
  • PF for PhDs S8E14: A Low-Cost Lifestyle Can Be Both Necessary and Enjoyable During Grad School
  • The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel
  • The Art of Spending Money by Morgan Housel
  • PF for PhDs Tax Center for PhDs-in-Training
  • PF for PhDs S22E4: The Importance of Financial Student Services to Graduate Students on Stipends
  • Millionaire Mission by Brian Preston
  • PF for PhDs Subscribe to Mailing List
  • PF for PhDs Podcast Hub
Teaching Personal Finance Illuminates the Opportunity Cost of a PhD

Teaser

Trevor (00:00): Because I think that the actual mechanisms for building wealth over time are really pretty simple to understand, but remarkably difficult to put into practice. And I think also as academics, like we’re primed to think that problems in the world sort of correlate in difficulty with their complexity. But it’s not always the case that problems are difficult because they’re complicated. Sometimes it’s just that there are psychological and behavioral things that kind of sabotage us in, in what we’re trying to do.

Introduction

Emily (00:38): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (01:07): This is Season 23, Episode 6, and today my guest is Dr. Trevor Hedberg, an assistant professor of practice at the University of Arizona who teaches a seminar on personal finance to undergrad students based on Morgan Housel’s The Psychology of Money. Trevor is a repeat podcast guest, and he shares how teaching the course has made him think differently about finances during his PhD and postdoc, including the financial opportunity cost of grad school and lifetime wealth killers.

Emily (01:37): The tax year 2025 version of my tax return preparation workshop, How to Complete Your PhD Trainee Tax Return (and Understand It, Too!), is now available! This pre-recorded educational workshop explains how to identify, calculate, and report your higher education-related income and expenses on your federal tax return. Whether you are a graduate student, postdoc, or postbac, domestic or international, there is a version of this workshop designed just for you. I do license these workshops to universities, but in the case that yours declines your request for sponsorship, you can purchase the appropriate version as an individual. Go to PFforPhDs.com/taxreturnworkshop/ to read more details and purchase the workshop. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s23e6/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Dr. Trevor Hedberg.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

Emily (02:50): I am delighted to have a repeat guest on the podcast today, Dr. Trevor Hedberg, who is currently an assistant professor of practice at the University of Arizona. Trevor was first on the podcast in season eight, episode 14, way back in 2021 when he was a postdoc, and we’ve had five years of time pass. Um, and there’s been a lot of changes and Trevor has a lot of new insights for us today. So I’m very excited to dig into that, um, both on the professional and personal front. So Trevor, will you please introduce yourself and tell us what’s been going on professionally in the last five years?

Trevor (03:26): Sure. Thanks Emily, and thanks for having me back on the, uh, podcast after all this time. So, um, I’m, I’m now as, as you said, an assistant professor of practice. Uh, my primary affiliation is with W.A. Franke Honors College. Uh, I also have a partial affiliation with the philosophy department. Um, the last time I was on, I was a postdoc at Ohio State. Um, and in the, a year or so after that, uh, I landed this job here at the University of Arizona and have been, um, continuing to teach undergrads, do my research, and, um, and most recently I’ve started teaching a personal finance, um, seminar here in the Honors college.

Teaching Personal Finance Seminars Using the Psychology of Money

Emily (04:03): And that is what prompted us to revisit and have another interview. And I’m so excited about this. Um, but yeah, tell us how you went from, you know, doing philosophy for your PhD to teaching personal finance at this point.

Trevor (04:16): Yeah, well, if, if anybody remembers five years back, I did, I did talk a bit about, uh, when I was in graduate school, the, the challenges associated with managing to live on such a small stipend. And so I had some personal interest in issues in personal finance because I had been grappling with some of them, uh, in my own, in my own life, just to kind of, you know, make it as a graduate student, uh, without having to take out additional loans. Um, when I got here to the University of Arizona, it was not part of my original, you know, teaching load. Uh, I was mainly hired to teach applied ethics courses, which is what my main research area is. Um, but there was a personal finance seminar that was being offered in the Honors college, but it was being offered by an out of house faculty, a faculty member in a different department that we were paying, um, to teach that seminar once a year.

Trevor (05:03): And these little honors seminars are one credit classes that, um, all honors students have to take one of them in order to graduate with the honors distinction on their transcript. So, and that happened to be one of the most popular classes, but it was only offered once a year. And the course caps on these seminars are pretty small, like, you know, low twenties in terms of the number of students. And so they were interested in, you know, this, that course was always maxing out. It’s, it had tons of people on the wait list and just, there was a lot of student demand, so it just came up in an administrative meeting. Um, you know, is there, is there someone else who might wanna teach like a course in this area? And I said I could take a crack at it. And, um, about a year later, um, we, you know, we piloted the first, and of course that course filled to capacity.

Trevor (05:53): Um, I used a, uh, I used the primary text Morgan Housel’s, the psychology of money, um, because my way of teaching the course is not just the nuts and bolts of personal finance, you know, what’s a credit score? What’s an IRA, how do you save for retirement? How do you design a budget? It’s also about the psychological and behavioral elements of, of money management and trying to familiarize the students with the, the obstacles that get in the way ’cause I think that the actual mechanisms for building wealth over time are really pretty simple to understand, but remarkably difficult to put into practice. And I think also as academics, like we’re primed to think that problems in the world sort of correlate in difficulty with their complexity. Um, because almost all the things, especially in philosophy, like all the stuff I write about, these are super complicated moral issues with all kinds of, you know, things changing empirically.

Trevor (06:44): All kinds of assumptions being made in the background about effects of, you know, emerging technologies and things like that. But it’s not always the case that problems are difficult because they’re complicated. Sometimes it’s just that there are psychological and behavioral things that kind of sabotage us in, in what we’re trying to do. And history is littered with examples of people who came upon or accumulated vast amounts of wealth at some point in time and managed to lose all of it in a very short span of time. Um, and, and my hope is that the students that come outta my class won’t follow that life trajectory.

Emily (07:20): Well, I love that you mentioned Morgan Housel’s book, and actually at this moment I’m on the waiting list for his next book or whatever his most recent book is. I’m, I’m at the library. I’m gonna be getting it soon. I’m really excited about that. Um, I’m wondering, is that the same, uh, core text that the previous, um, professor who was teaching this course was using? Or was that a shift that you made?

Trevor (07:41): So, interestingly, it was the same primary text that he was using, but I did not know that when, um, when I was like, I was essentially just looking at different books that, trade books that were written for, you know, a general audience in this area. And that was the one that kept coming up, uh, as a, a very popular source. I mean, the, the way the book is structured, each chapter essentially has one key lesson or idea, and the chapters are only, you know, eight to 10 pages long and there’s 20 of ’em. And so for a one credit course, um, where, you know, you don’t want to really overburden the students in that kind of class with a ton of a ton of reading, um, or assessments. It was just a good fit. Uh, I didn’t, now I have this semester, um, this is my third time teaching the course. I have cut out a couple of chapters of the book that I had previously assigned and replaced them with other material covering the same stuff. Uh, ’cause you know, some chapters seem to resonate more with students than others. And so I’m, I’m trying to, you know, kind of keep, keep tweaking the, the course content to a, to adapt to what works best, um, for the students, uh, Housel’s like new book is called The Art of Spending Money, and I actually do have a chapter from that book that I’m, that I’m gonna use, um, this semester. There’s a lot of overlap in his ideas in the art of spending money and in the psychology of money. But I did find, uh, I haven’t read the entirety of the art of spending money, but like probably two thirds of it, I have found the prior book, the Psychology of Money, I, I thought it was superior. Um, the, and I think like there’s overlap between the ideas. It’s clear to see that the artist spending money is an extension of some of the things he says. But, um, certainly as a teaching tool, I think the psychology of, of, of money has is, is a very good text and, and works well for, for these purposes.

Final Project: Creating a Long-Term Financial Plan

Emily (09:33): Yeah. And certainly a credit to it that you and your predecessor both independently chose it for this particular course. Um, it is a very easy and entertaining read and almost like filled with anecdotes and yeah, it’s a very, um, it moves along very quickly and it teaches you a lot in a very effective way, I think. Um, is there anything else that you wanna tell us about the course itself?

Trevor (09:55): Probably the, um, the final project that I’ve had the students do in the class the previous two times is I, I have made them actually design and outline a personal financial plan from their current age, which for most of ’em is about 20 all the way up to retirement age at 65, uh, operating at about five year intervals. Now doing that, uh, that is challenging for anybody to do regardless of, of, of your, of your age or your, um, financial situation. But I think that a lot of these students have never, they’ve never imagined like their, their wealth building journey on this long time horizon. And so I got a lot of feedback the first semester I taught the course where like everybody was like, this is a really valuable thing to do. And also, this was really, really hard and I would like some more direct guidance and more resources.

Trevor (10:40): Um, so I spent more of an effort last semester, um, showing them in class how to use retirement calculators and, um, and where to look to get information about like what their expected income is in their anticipated career at different life stages. And, uh, and also pointed some things out about like, you know, what commonly goes wrong over the course of a lifetime in trying to, because I, I required them in their timelines to incorporate some negative life events that, not saying that those things will happen, but basically like, don’t design your plan operating where, oh, I’m never gonna have any health emergencies. I’m never gonna have a, be in a car accident. I’m never gonna, you know, have any period of unemployment or decide to make a career change or go through a divorce. Like these are not realistic. Something bad will happen to you over 45 years of your life. You just don’t know exactly what it is. So plan for some of those things. Imagine that those things alter what your plans are and, and adjust your goals, um, accordingly, or like build in that preparation into how you structure your emergency savings or, or, um, or what you end, you know, what, what career decisions you make earlier in your life.

Emily (11:50): I think that exercise is so valuable. And actually I don’t think I’ve ever done that, like, to that level of detail, like projecting that far out. But I did want for our audience to take it down to a, a smaller timescale. Um, and just emphasize this principle of don’t assume everything is going to go perfectly financially, um, especially as you’re entering into a new position as you’re entering graduate school, as you’re entering a postdoc later on in your career. Um, if you’re pro projecting your budget and trying to figure out, okay, can I make it on this stipend? Can I make it on this postdoc salary in this city? You have to build in some of those shocks and prepare your finances for them because the length of term you’ll be in, you know, your PhD program, the length of time you’ll be in a postdoc way too long to assume that nothing is gonna go wrong. And so if your plan relies on everything going perfectly and you’re living on a razor’s edge, it’s not a good enough plan at that point.

Trevor (12:43): Yeah. The, the one, um, the one change that I am making this semester to that final kind of project is I am giving them an alternative option because a number of students kind of seemingly wanted to do this in previous courses, which is I’m gonna allow them alternatively to spend 12 weeks during the semester tracking their spending. Um, and then essentially the, the personal financial plan has two components, like the timeline that I’ve kind of described, and then a narrative that syncs up the timeline with like the course content and material. Like, why did you pick the strategies you did? How is it influenced by the, um, the stuff that we’ve read? Uh, it’s the same thing, but it’s like the information you’d be using is like, what did you learn about your spending over these 12 weeks of tracking your interactions with money? What do you spend money on? How is that consistent or not consistent with the things that we have, uh, covered in the, in the class? You know, what changes might you make in light of what you’ve learned to how you are, uh, to how you’re spending money or what you’re spending things on. Um, now whether or not students will actually like do this project, ’cause this requires you to get started like week three or week four, I’m gonna outline for them next week like how to use a template that I’m giving them for tracking, you know, your spending over time. So it’s an experiment. We’ll, we’ll see how many people actually do it. Um, but, but the idea behind both of these is just, you gotta have a certain level of intentionality and forethought with respect to how you manage your money. It does not magically happen in, in some way. And, and, and for I think virtually every student who takes this class, they’ll not have done either of these things, either this long-term kind of mapping things out to retirement, at least hypothetically, or just let me see what I’m spending money on for three months and see if I am okay with my behaviors. Uh, and if not, what am I gonna do to make a change?

Emily (14:38): I’m just loving this. I hope the audience is as well. And you know, I’m sure they’re all wishing they had the opportunity to take this course, uh, when they were in undergraduate or in graduate school. Um, it sounds incredible, uh, but I understand that you, you know, this is now your third time through teaching the course. It’s caused some reflections and, um, you know, rethinking in you about, you know, decisions you’ve made in the past and so forth. So I’d love for us to kind of, yeah, with this new information and deeper knowledge that you have in this area. Like, let’s speak to, you know, your time as a graduate student and as a postdoc, and how your thoughts about that have changed.

The Opportunity Cost of Grad School

Trevor (15:12): Yeah, so one of the things when, one of the, the basic pieces of advice you always get if you go to grad school in the humanities is like, don’t take out any loans to pursue because of the career prospects are uncertain and you don’t wanna take on additional debt, so on. That’s a totally fair point. It’s actually very understated, um, how important that is. But there’s also, like, there’s a really high opportunity cost to going to graduate school in, in, in any humanities field in your early twenties because the, you’re, you’re de you’re depriving yourself of, of a financial resource that we don’t talk about that much. Um, so a lot of people will point out like, well, if you, if you got an even just an entry level job where you were making, I don’t know, $50,000 a year to start out, you’d not only be working towards having a higher income, you would also be potentially, you know, paying off your debt sooner or, you know, uh, accumulating, you know, $50,000 a year instead of 15 or $20,000, whatever your graduate student stipend was.

Trevor (16:09): Um, that’s all fair. But the real resource that you’re depriving yourself of is time, uh, and specifically time for your money to grow via some kind of investment mechanism. So the, the alternative where you’re making 50 or $60,000 a year in your early twenties as opposed to try just trying to get by, not take out any more loans and, but not in a position to really save anything, um, when you’re in graduate school, that time is disproportionately more valuable than time in your thirties and forties and so on. Because if you put that money even in just like a basic index fund, um, it’ll, we have to make some assumptions about like, you know, based on past performance of how like the market does, but it’s reasonable to think that whatever money you put in will double somewhere between seven and 10 years after you put it in.

Trevor (17:00): So if you were to spend your twenties, even if it was just, I don’t know, $10,000, $15,000, put that in. By the time you are in your, you know, mid sixties and looking to retire, that money is going to have, have doubled four to six times. And so you’ll be in a position where if it was say, $10,000 and even if it only doubled four times, 10,000 goes to 20,000, 40,000, 80,000, that’s $160,000 by the time you get all the way down there. This is the, just the basic concept of compound interest, which I spend about two weeks trying to drill into my students in, in this class because all of them are typically 18 to 20 year olds. And so for them, the greatest resource they have is, is their time. So I think, I think this is an element of going to graduate school, uh, and being in graduate school for a long time with a relatively modest salary, uh, that isn’t properly appreciated because you’re, you’re not just depriving yourselves of like income in the short term. You’re also taking away like essentially one doubling cycle on money that you could save. And that, that, that cycle that takes place during the twenties, so and so if you, if you lumped all this money in instead, like when you’re 30 instead of when you’re in your early twenties, you’ll only wind, you’ll only have about half as much at the end of this process as you would’ve had, um, using that same money if you just put it in eight to 10 years earlier.

Emily (18:27): I, I wanna make sure the audience is really picking up on this because, um, as you’re saying, it’s not just the lost wages, it’s the lost time for the investments. You, we can presume in our scenario, you would’ve been doing had you not been in graduate school, and it’s not just a few thousand dollars or 10 or $20,000 that you could have invested, let’s say in your twenties, if we’re talking about a traditional PhD student, what we’re really talking about is the last doubling that occurs on your money. Your career itself is let’s say seven years longer if you start it after your bachelor’s degree instead of starting after your PhD. So to make up for that last lost doubling, which could be worth, it could be worth a million dollars. It could be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars easily. You have to earn more on the backside of the graduate degree and save more on the backside of the graduate degree, invest more, um, to make up for the lost time.

Emily (19:24): And so, as you know, from your perspective as someone in the humanities, um, that’s something that you have to be very, very cognizant of, careful about, like if you, how much is the premium going to be on your salary if you have the PhD versus not? What’s the expected outcome there if you get the tenure track job versus you have to take some other kind of job because it didn’t work out in that respect. So you have to make so much more money to make up for this. Now we can all make lifestyle decisions, like it’s okay if you just want to have a PhD, but to be aware of the financial, you know, implications from that decision. Um, really it should be taught before you make these decisions about where you’re, you know, if you go to graduate school, where you go to graduate school and so forth. So I’m really glad you brought this up. I just wanted to put another like kind of underline under there that’s not just a few thousand dollars, it’s the last doubling that you’re missing out on.

Trevor (20:18): Yeah. Now, as a disclaimer, I should note that like, I don’t think this is in itself like a decisive reason to never go into any graduate program or pursue any professional training. Um, most people who go into graduate school in philosophy or any humanities field like I did, uh, you’re probably making that decision primarily for non-financial reasons. I would hope, I would hope that that is the primary motivation for, for doing that. So it’s not like I look back and I say, oh, it was just a total mistake to go to graduate school in philosophy because I, because, you know, my 65-year-old self could have, I don’t know, $500,000 more than I would’ve had, uh, in, in the, in the timeline that I’m currently in. It’s more like knowing what I know. Um, if I could go back in time, one of the things I would’ve done, I was able to still save a, a significant chunk of money while I was in grad school.

Trevor (21:06): And I used some of that to pay off, um, a couple of stu of, of the student loans that I had from undergrad. Um, but I had enough money at, at a couple of points in time where I could have opened a Roth IRA and it wouldn’t have been a huge sum of money initially if I did it as a lump sum, it would’ve only probably been like a couple thousand dollars. But I think what I would’ve liked to do is open a Roth IRA around the age of maybe 23 or something like that, and put in, you know, a hundred dollars a month or something like that. Uh, just get into the hab- even if it was only $50 a month, right? Just build a habit of just putting money in investing in this vehicle. And I just, it did not occur to me, uh, at that time, uh, to do that. So that’s probably the biggest, the biggest change I can look back on and say I would’ve made, um, in grad school. The-

Emily (21:52): Absolutely. So to take that scenario that I just said, okay, you’re starting a career, let’s say seven years later because you decided to do a PhD and you couldn’t save in that meantime, um, that’s true under that set of assumptions that we were just talking about. But what you just pointed out is if you can start to invest a little bit, then you have started that clock, then you’re not missing out entirely on the last doubling, you’re missing a fraction of it because you’re able to invest much less than you would if you had a different kind of job during that period. But you’re, you’re lessening the damage, right, of that lost time just by getting started a little bit. And as you said, a hundred dollars a month, $50 a month, this is still a significant amount of money once you project it forward, you know, as you said, four to six doublings later.

Emily (22:34): Like, this is a significant and effective amount of money. And so it’s not, um, something that you should disregard just because, oh, I can only save $50, I can only save a hundred dollars. No, go ahead and do it if, if you’re financially ready for it. And as you just mentioned, it not only is the effect of the money itself, but the, it’s the effect of the habit. It’s the effect of you having your identity as I am someone who invests even in difficult life circumstances. I still invest, you know, and so that’s very, very valuable as well.

Commercial

Emily (23:03): Emily here for a brief interlude! Tax season is in full swing, and the best place to go for information tailored to you as a grad student, postdoc, or postbac, is PFforPhDs.com/tax/. From that page I have linked to all of my free tax resources, many of which I have updated for this tax year. On that page you will find podcast episodes, videos, and articles on all kinds of tax topics relevant to PhDs and PhDs-to-be. There are also opportunities to join the Personal Finance for PhDs mailing list to receive PDF summaries and spreadsheets that you can work with. Again, you can find all of these free resources linked from PFforPhDs.com/tax/. Now back to the interview.

Financial Changes After Grad School

Trevor (23:54): Yeah, so once I got out of grad school and, and got into kind of, you know, making like a reasonable, like closer to that $50,000, you know, hypothetical income we were talking about, um, the things I did after that was like, I immediately paid down, you know, my high interest student loan debt. Uh, I had never had any, I’ve never had any credit card debt. I’m one of those, uh, what they call in the industry deadbeats who uses credit cards, but just pays off the balance in full every single month. Uh, so that wasn’t an issue. And then I, um, now I, I didn’t really look into, it took me about two years to pay off that debt and to pay off my car. And then I started my postdoc at Ohio State, and it was really that moment, like early, like I believe I was 31, um, when I was actually like, okay, I have some retirement money from, you know, that was just being pulled from my paycheck at South Florida.

Trevor (24:45): Let me convert that into a Roth IRA and, and let’s, let’s actually now start, start like taking this, you know, seriously, not because it’s like, I didn’t care about it previously, but it’s like I actually have money now. I actually am saving a significant chunk of, of my income because one thing I did manage to avoid and have continued to manage to avoid is I have not really had the lifestyle creep problem that, that some people experience, where as your income goes up, your, your lifestyle and the cost of it proportionally increases so that you, you know, you’re making $10,000 more a year or $20,000 more a year, but you’re not actually saving any more money than you were when you were making less. Um, that has not been a, I I haven’t been tempted, um, to, uh, just start to live lavishly, um, once, once I had like a real income

Emily (25:39): Listeners. I have, I need to be very disciplined still <laugh>.

Trevor (25:43): Yeah, so I, I think, I think once I got into like doing the stuff in the postdoc, like I don’t really think there are a lot of choices I would’ve made differently given that, but I, I do, as I said, wish I had kind of set myself up, um, a little bit better. One thing I have learned in teaching this class and just investigating kind of the trends in among, you know, my, the, these people in their late teens, early twenties, folks who are just starting to manage their money. Um, there are certain kinds of well-known like wealth killers, and it’s amazing how often if you just, if you just, if you read some books on the subject or if you, uh, just browse like YouTube videos or other social media for like, from financial advisors or other people, the same kinds of problems just surface over and over again in this in different ways.

Four Common Financial Wealth Killers

Trevor (26:27): Credit card interest, I think is the most well known like wealth killer because the interest rates are so high, you do not wanna ever be carrying a balance month to month on a credit card. Um, student loan, um, interest if, if the, particularly if you’re taking out like private student loans with real high interest rates and not being very aggressive and paying those off. Um, historically there have been cases of people who spend 10, 20 years paying down a balance, and because they were paying so little on the balance, the amount they owe is actually more than the amount they started with because they’re not, they’re not paying off any of the principal money they borrowed, they’re just paying off the interest. Um, that’s a disastrous situation that I, you know, emphasized to my students, you gotta avoid.

Trevor (27:11): And then the two things that, so I knew about those, but there were a couple other things I did not know about, um, teaching this course, one of which is just dubiously financed auto loans. Um, this is sort of a combination of a couple of things. Buying, buying a car you can’t afford, uh, but also buying it on terms that I didn’t even know existed. Uh, I, you know, I, I’ve heard now that there are apparently 84 month and 96 month car loans, which I didn’t know that was a thing. Um, and the interest rates, um, the car I have right now is a 2.9% interest rate, which is pretty good. I think I’ve seen interest rates of like between 11 and 16%, uh, in, in some, in some instances that get talked about in some of these videos. And that’s, um, that’s sort of nightmarish. Uh, and granted, I know like, you know, having a good credit score is what qualifies you for interest rates. Not every people are in different circumstances, but you gotta be cognizant of what kind of car you can afford given your financial situation.

Trevor (28:07): And you’ve, you’ve, you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta find a better, better situation with that. You cannot take, if you’re, if you’re paying 11% interest on $80,000 car, uh, by the time and it’s 84 months, by the time you pay that off, you’re probably paying double what the car’s value is. And it’s a depreciating asset. So if you, you know, get, if you get caught in a situation where you have to get rid of the vehicle or it’s totaled out or something like that, uh, you may have to roll negative equity into your next, which is another thing that I didn’t even know was like an option for, for vehicle purchases. So I don’t know if, like, I was just naive about how people buy cars or, or what, but seeing like all of the ways you can sabotage yourself in that area has been somewhat enlightening for me teaching, um, teaching the class.

Emily (28:51): I totally agree with you, and this is really great stuff to know when you’re going into like your first car purchase or maybe your first financed car purchase or new car purchase or something along those lines. Um, but zooming back out to that like sort of lifetime timeline that we were talking about earlier, one of those other wealth killers related to cars is just always having a car loan. Like never keeping a car <laugh> much, much long, you know, much, much longer past the time period when you’re done paying off the loan. A lot of people do get in a cycle of, they’re just accustomed to it. They’re just accustomed to always having a car loan when their car is paid off, they get another new or they finance another car. And that, that habit alone makes a massive difference for your wealth over your lifetime.

Emily (29:36): I mean, easily a million dollars if we’re talking about like more expensive like kinds of cars, it’s incredible what that habit is. Now, there are structural reasons why this happens, okay? Like we live most of us in very car dependent cities. Absolutely. And so cars are a necessity for a lot of people. And the other thing, sorry, this is a little bit of soapbox for me, but like the types of cars that are being produced now are much, much, much more expensive than types of cars that have been produced in the past. So people feel like they’re kind of forced into a very expensive car just because they’re very limited options on the lower end of the price range. So that is a structural issue that’s kind of pushing people in this direction that’s also very worth, you know, pointing out. But the more, as you’re doing with your students, you know, the more awareness you have about these, um, influences around you, the more that you can try to work against them when you’re making your own individual decisions.

Trevor (30:28): Yeah, and I, I definitely empathize with the point about, um, not wanting to be in a state where you don’t have a car payment every month. So when I came to Arizona, I was driving, um, a Hyundai Elantra that had been fully paid off for several years, but a few months into being here in Arizona, uh, it was one of those older models of vehicles that, uh, unbeknownst to me did not have what is known as a key immobilizer, which means that if you knew what to do, uh, and unfortunately, yeah, so there was a, a TikTok trend about this that was going around under the hashtag Kia Boys, where it was basically a series of tutorials about how to steal Kias and Hyundais that had been manufactured without key immobilizers. And essentially if you strip off the steering column and know what to look for and have like a large blunt object, uh, like in, in this case, I believe it was a, just a screwdriver, um, a flathead Phillips flathead screwdriver that was used. You can, um, you can get the car to start without having any of the keys, right? And so overnight, uh, my car was stolen outta my apartment parking lot and crashed and totaled out in, uh, in like 25, 30 minutes outside of town. Um, and this is apparently just what these people were doing. Um, so somewhere on TikTok, there may be a video in, in the archives of someone driving my Elantra and just crashing it out in the Catalina Foothills of Arizona. Um, but I had two off-, just two. I was woken up by two police officers knocking on my door at 7:00 AM and be like, sir, do you have the keys to your vehicle? Do you know where it’s located? You know, et cetera, et cetera. So we eventually figured out what had happened. Someone had broken out the back window, uh, of the car climbed in, stripped off the steering column. There was a screwdriver in the vehicle that was not mine. That was a very long, you know, uh, there had been a bunch of stuff that had been, you know, it, the vehicle had been totally trashed. It was totaled. Um, so I had to buy a new car here in Arizona. Like that wasn’t my financial plan. This is one of those things that can go wrong, right? We were talking earlier about you can’t, you can’t, like that was a completely unanticipated event. Um, my insurance gave me a very good like, payout for the vehicle, but I had to get a new vehicle right when it wasn’t, it wasn’t part of the plan. Um, so I’m looking forward to, in about a year where I will have this current car paid off and not, um, and not, not have, hopefully not have that car payment for a lot, for a lot longer. I know my new car does have a key immobilizer, so at least won’t be destroyed in the same way.

Trevor (32:53): So the, the one other thing I learned that that was not, this was definitely not a thing when I was growing up, is, um, there’s, so one of the great advantages we have now compared to the past when it comes to like building wealth, is you can manage your investments and other stuff like online. You don’t have to go through like a broker at a brick and mortar bank. Um, and, and you can, you can get a snapshot of like how things are going, what you’re doing, et cetera, way more easily. But the downside of that is it’s now also possible to engage in dubious investment practices or what we would just describe as outright gambling, um, with your money. Some of that is in investment formats. People who are doing, like, they’re, they’re pretending sort of to be day traders, uh, and, and doing, doing things with their money. That’s, I think just basically indistinguishable from gambling, especially if they’re doing things like investing in these, these crypto meme coins where occasionally something hits it big, but the vast majority of the time these things just crash zero over over time. Um, and, and the other big one is sports betting, which is just everywhere now.

Trevor (33:56): And, uh, used to be a very niche thing, uh, that that very few people did. And if they did, it was really just kind of a novelty, like, oh, I happen to be in Vegas, so whatever I, I, I bet on a horse race or something like that, I, but now it’s everywhere and you can access it on your phone. Lots of, lots of, and, and it disproportionately affects young men. Um, the vast majority of, of sports bets are men, uh, and they’re, they skew really young. Um, that, you know, age range of 18 to 25 seems to be like the, the largest, um, growing demographic of that. So I’ve been trying to caution my students many times about not doing these things, these behaviors where you’re ex the expected value is not that you gain money over time, right? And that’s why FanDuel and DraftKings and these, um, why they give you these promotional benefits, you know, that $5 get $200 in bonus bets or, or these, these profit boost tokens they give out where, oh, if your bet hits you get 1.5 times the payout on this. You know, it’s all designed to just keep you there placing bets because they know the longer you’re in the game, the more likely it is that eventually you’ll lose and they’ll make money off of you.

Emily (35:10): Absolutely. I was just explaining to my daughters a few days ago, the concept of gambling. Like they don’t even know what it is. They’re very young, and I, the first thing I said to them is, the house always wins. Remember that <laugh>, like, do not let go of that lesson. The house always, always wins. As we’re recording this interview, um, in January, 2026, it happens to be that I listened to a podcast episode yesterday of deep questions with Cal Newport where he covered sports betting and gambling and the new technology around that and how prevalent it is, as you were mentioning. And this also came up for me in previous conversations with Dr. Zach Taylor, who’s been a repeat guest on the podcast as well, who works with undergraduate students too. And so the stat that I heard in that episode with Cal Newport was that, um, 70% of young men who live on a college campus have a sports betting account, right?

Emily (35:55): We don’t know how much they’re using it, but they have an account, they have access to it. Um, and so to me, I don’t address gambling much. I think this is maybe the first time it’s come up on the podcast, but to me, I struggle with, um, helping to teach how <laugh> entertainment and spending money on entertainment might be okay, and it can be part of your budget, but how gambling, you know, obviously taken too far, it becomes very addictive and very financially damaging and damaging to relationships. And like, how do you find yourself on that spectrum and sort of for your own personal self, your own personal values, decide what you’re comfortable with and what you’re not. How, how do you address this with your students?

Dr. Hedberg’s Experience with Sports Betting on FanDuel

Trevor (36:37): What I tell the students about gambling, whatever form it takes, is that you need to approach what you’re doing. That money that is not savings money, that’s not money that you’re, you know, putting aside for emergency savings. It’s not money that you’re investing for retirement. This is money that needs to be in the same category as like, I’m going out to a nice restaurant, or I’m, I’m going to the movies with some friends, or I’m, I’m, I’m buying some, you know, decorative item from my home or whatever. Um, it needs to be money that you are okay if there is zero return on investment, if it is all, if it is all lost. Um, and that’s how I approached, um, I did a couple of years ago, um, use FanDuel, uh, which is one of the major sports betting apps, uh, for one year. And I basically took a fixed sum of money, which in my case it was like a thousand dollars.

Trevor (37:23): And I said, this is what I got for the whole year. If I lose all of it, that’s it. If I, whatever I, you know, and, and, and we’ll just see what happens. I mostly bet on NBA games as a sport I’m the most familiar with in that, in that kind of context. I actually wound up making $50 over the course of this whole experiment, but it was incredibly tedious, um, and did not make me enjoy watching basketball more. Um, for me it was very much the opposite. I could have made more money just putting that a thousand dollars into, uh, a brokerage account or even like a high yield savings account probably. Um, and so that, that was not, uh, ’cause the other factor is like the gambling earnings or taxed in kind of a weird way. So like, I’m, I’m not sure I actually made $50.

Trevor (38:09): I don’t know what the positive value was, but it was negligible is the, is the point. I neither made nor lost a meaningful sum of money doing that. Um, but if I had lost all of that money, nothing about my financial future would’ve hinged on that. There was no expected amount, rate of return. It was just an experiment. Wanna see how this app works? Want to see what, what this experience is like because so many people are doing it. Um, I don’t really regret doing the experiment, but I also like have deleted my account. Will never go back. So, um, I encourage, you know, my students to, if they are going to do any kind of gambling, to approach it that way, like set aside a fixed sum of money that is just your, and, and have it budgeted in that way. Don’t put more money into your account and do not anticipate or make projections about your financial future based on anticipated earn earnings or gains. Um, that, that’s a recipe for disaster.

Emily (39:06): And I think that, um, paired with this extra, this optional exercise that they have of tracking their spending over the course of the semester is really valuable because some people may be adding money all the time to these kinds of accounts, and it’s one of those like small transaction things that can kind of get overlooked unless you’re really, really in your numbers and adding them up over the course of the month or what have you. And so that could be really valuable. Oh, I’m actually spending this many hundreds of dollars per month on gambling, and maybe that’s not, that’s more than entertainment budget than I need to be spending at this point. Right?

Trevor (39:38): Yeah, I, we’ll see, I I, since I have done that activity before, um, I don’t know what to expect for what, what, how many students will do it or what I’ll, or what I’ll learn about it. But, um, but I do think that if they, if they really did it for the full 12 weeks, that’s three months, that’s enough of a time slice that they would get some idea of what some of their habits were, and they might get some insight into, um, where they might want to make changes, uh, in, in, in the future. Or maybe they would discover like, oh, I’m, I’m doing better in this than I thought, you know, it’s possible.

Dr. Hedberg’s Future Financial Plans

Emily (40:11): Absolutely. Uh, you mentioned the future, so I wanted to ask you if your own plans for your life, your finances have ch- and you know, forward looking have changed at all from your experience teaching this course?

Trevor (40:25): I think for the most part, I mean, I think some of the habits that I have had, had, had developed, um, I, I, I feel are a little bit more vindicated given, you know, like the avoidance of high interest debt and a and a few of the other things. Uh, as I mentioned earlier, I do kind of wish in the past and maybe I had developed an investing habit a little bit earlier. Um, but the, the one thing that is different now is that when I was a postdoc, I was always operating on basically 18 month time horizons with everything in my life because, you know, what’s the next job? What, what am I doing to make myself competitive for that next cycle? And that included the fi- the financial stuff too, right? I mean, there, there was, you know, there was an expectation that at some point that would stretch out longer term, but it’s really hard to like, feel like you’re prioritizing re- retirement outcomes when you don’t even know whether you’re gonna be employed the next academic year.

Trevor (41:18): And once, once I got here at Arizona and once, like, after a year or so, I kind of got the sense that this could be a fairly stable and permanent, you know, appointment, you know, and I liked living here and liked the people I work with. Um, then it became easier psychologically to say like, okay, we’re gonna, I’m gonna overhaul some of the things I’m doing and we’re gonna really, we’re gonna be maxing out that Roth IRA, the university has a, has an HSA as as well that you can use as a kind of retirement investment vehicle. So I’m maxing that out also. Um, and then, um, I also opted in actually to the university’s pension, uh, options. So they give you two options at the University of Arizona, and you have to decide pretty early in your, when you start your job, what you’re taking.

Trevor (42:00): One of ’em is a 403B, which is structured like a 401k, and the other one is a defined benefit pension plan where if you, there’s a formula where like you get a certain percentage of your highest five income earning years in the state of Arizona based on how many years you worked. And, um, so if you work, like, I don’t have the table in front of me right now, but if you work around 25 to 30 years in, in, in the state of Arizona, uh, while you’re eligible for the pension and are putting in the amount of, you know, it’s mandatory, they just deduct it, you know, pre-tax from your, um, from your paycheck, uh, you will get like something like 70% ish of your, of that salary every month, you know, for the rest of your life until, until you die. Uh, so the hope is that between like my Roth IRA, which is like a, like something that I’m maintaining on my own and which started with funds from Ohio State and University of South Florida, like the retirement stuff I had done in those places before getting here between that and the HSA and then having a pension hopefully between those three things, you know, in tandem. Um, I’ll, I’ll be all right when I, when I get into my sixties. Um, right now the short term goal is I’m, I’m, uh, I’m, I’ve got some m- money that I’m growing to potentially make a down payment on a house or, or maybe buy a condominium or something like that.

Emily (43:27): It’s amazing. I’m so glad to hear that, um, that you chose the pension. I mean, obviously the numbers are different for different people, but just to have that perspective, um, for the podcast audience of like, yeah, pensions actually do still exist, um, in higher education at certain types of institutions. And so this may be a choice that you are faced with and you, it’s really a combination of a career and a financial decision. And it’s also, I also would be very tempted by the pension just for the aspect of the guaranteed income. And as you said, you can still do some retirement investing on your own. Maybe you consider it optional, maybe you consider it necessary, I don’t know. Um, but you still have those other vehicles that you know, you can use for that purpose as well. So anyway, it’s just very interesting and as I’ve gotten, um, well closer to retirement, I guess you could say time keeps passing. Um, I find that idea of guaranteed income to be very attractive and possibly worth, you know, paying a premium for in some ways. So, super interesting.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (44:23): Um, I wanna end with the question that I ask all of my guests, which is, what is your best financial advice for another early career PhD? You answered this the first time you’re on the podcast, so let’s get a, a refresh on that. And it can be something that we’ve touched on already in the interview, or it could be something completely new.

Trevor (44:40): The thing that I’ve learned, like I’ve mentioned here earlier, that the one thing I would go back and change is that I would’ve started, I would’ve opened a Roth IRA and I would’ve started investing, even if it was a tiny sum of money every month, just to build that, just to get that habit. Like this is just the thing I do. Um, I think that is something that is not on a lot of 22, 23-year-old PhD students radar. And that’s something that I would definitely, uh, tell people. Now, if I was, if I was advising, uh, an undergrad student who’s gonna go to grad school, this is, this is something that I would make them, um, privy to because, uh, you know, there are all these, um, calculators you can use on in online space to figure out how much money it’s worth. The most common figure that I’m familiar with, which, uh, originates from a guy named Brian Preston, who, who runs like a, I think it’s like called the the Money Guy Show, or the Money Guy podcast or whatever.

Trevor (45:33): He has a book called Millionaire Mission. He’s got this chart, uh, based on, it’s basically how much is a dollar worth at the age of 65 invested at different ages. And, and it assumes a declining rate of like investment returns as you get closer to retirement because you make your, you make your portfolio a little more conservative to make sure that that money doesn’t fluctuate dramatically right before you retire. And essentially $1 invested at age 20, at least according to his calculations, is worth about $88 at the age of 65. Now, again, there are some assumptions built into how that’s calculated, but on any plausible estimate, in my view, the minimum is it’s gonna be like $64 and it could be higher, it could be over a hundred, depending on, again, what background assumptions you’re making, how aggressive your portfolio is, and what actually happens in the market.

Trevor (46:23): So getting even just a small amount each month when you’re 21, 22, 23 years old into these kinds of accounts is just such an incredibly powerful thing. But you don’t get that money for 40 plus years. So there’s a trade off, you know, and, and I know as a graduate student, I was always weighing like, how much emergency savings do I need in the event that I’m unemployed for six months after I get my PhD? And it’s easy to look back now and to say like, oh, I really wish I’d invested, you know, 10,000, $20,000, uh, of, of that, of that money I had on hand now because I didn’t have that period of unemployment. But that’s very much a hindsight bias because certainly if things had gone a little bit differently, there could have been a gap of some sort where I would’ve been very glad to not have a bunch of money tied up in a retirement account. So this has to be, these things have to be weighed, but a small amount, $20 a month, $50 a month, whatever you can scrounge away, like just building that habit and knowing like this is, when you were in even I think once you get to your thirties and you see how much it’s grown in just that short time, you, you will not regret building that habit early and and making those choices.

Emily (47:31): Very well said. Trevor, thank you so much for giving this interview. Thank you for coming back on the podcast and giving us all an update. It was wonderful to hear from you.

Trevor (47:39): Yeah, thanks for having me back, Emily, it was great to see you again, chat about this stuff. And, uh, I, you know, I’ve, I’ve, I have enjoyed teaching about it and I, I expect I’ll keep doing that here in the Franke Honors College for quite some time.

Outro

Emily (48:02): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

Filed Under: Money Mindset Tagged With: audio, debt, expert interview, grad student, investing, money mindset, postdoc, prospective grad student, retirement, Roth IRA, transcript, video

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