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This Postdoc Epitomizes Side Hustling to Get Out from Under $100,000 of Debt

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In this episode, Emily interviews Dr. Shana Green, a postdoc at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. Shana finished her PhD with $108,000 of debt, and she decided to side hustle to pay it off as fast as she could. After trying several academic and non-academic side hustles, she is currently chiefly working as a driver for GrubHub. She’s on track to be completely debt free in less than four years total. We discuss the strategies she’s used to optimize her side hustle, how she feels about side hustling as a driver, and her goals for her YouTube channel, The Wealth Vibe.

Links mentioned in episode

side hustling postdoc

0:00 Introduction

1:09 Please Introduce Yourself

Dr. Shana Green is a Gates Millennium Scholar. This program funded all of her undergraduate education, and provided some funds for graduate education. Shana went to Howard University for her bachelors of arts in Anthropology. She got a Masters of Public Health at Columbia University, where she had to take out student loans for rent, food and living expenses. She went to the University of South Florida for her PhD in Public Health, where most of her education was funded but she had to take out some loans for her fifth year. She graduated in 2017 and worked as a postdoc at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). She recently got a new position as a contractor for the CDC.

4:54 What was the total of your debt when you finished your PhD?

Shana was aware of her debt before she finished her PhD. She had $108,000 in debt when she graduated with her PhD. She says about $56,000 is from student loans. She took out about $40,000 from student loans, but she has accrued over $10,000 in interest. She had car debt, IRS debt, medical bills, and credit cards. One of her credit cards had $14,000 of debt.

She didn’t have to go into repayment for her student loans during her postdoc because she qualified for graduate fellowship deferment. She wanted to tackle her other debt first. Now she has about $63,000 in debt remaining. She paid off the credit card, IRS debt, and medical bills. She is very close to paying off her car. She will only have her student loans remaining after two years of he repayment journey.

Shana says that when she moved to Atlanta, she started side hustling right away. She couldn’t afford to go out and meet people and get to know the city. She went straight to the grind and working hard to pay off her debt.

8:50 How does your postdoc salary affect your debt repayment journey?

Shana is grateful she has a higher stipend than many postdocs. She was making about $70,000 gross annual pay from her postdoc stipend at the CDC. This is in contrast to the National Institutes of Health minimum stipend that was just below $50,000 annual stipend. She was in an Oak Ridge Institute for Science and Education (ORISE) funded postdoc, which compensates based on education and work experience. She received about $5200, then she had to pay quarterly taxes. Her take home was somewhere around $4,000.

Shana says while this was a good stipend, it wasn’t enough to cover her debt payments. She calculated she needed to make another $1,500 to $2,000 more each month for her debt payments. Her goal was to be debt free by February 2021.

11:38 What are the different side hustles that you’ve tried since moving to Atlanta?

Shana says the first side hustle she tried was Instacart. In this job, she shopped for groceries and delivered them. She started that in October 2017. When Instacart changed their system so she made less money, she tried other jobs. She tried virtual assistance, Upwork, and local food delivery service. Since April 2018, she has worked for GrubHub and still does Instacart every now and then. She also does freelance research through Upwork. She says GrubHub is her “bread and butter” as a side hustle.

13:17 How does a GrubHub side hustle work?

Shana explains that when a customer places an order, she gets a ping on her phone. GrubHub provides the details up front to help her decide if she wants to accept it. She is free to reject orders. If she accepts, she goes to the restaurant to pick up the food and bring it to the customer. She contrasts this to Instacart, where she had to put together the order herself instead of just picking it up.

She makes about $20 per hour with GrubHub. The least amount she makes is $15 per hour, and the most is $25 per hour. She spends about four hours a night doing GrubHub. On the weekends nights she works 5 hours. She works at minimum three days during the week. There were several weeks that she worked every day of the week. After her work at the CDC for the day, she almost immediately started her GrubHub work.

17:34 How do you decide which GrubHub orders to take?

Shana keeps three things in mind: the payout, the distance, and whether the person tips. GrubHub pays a minimum of $3 base pay, a mileage contribution, and tips if the customer chooses. She says if the person has not tipped through the app, they won’t tip in person. She tries to take orders $8 or $10 or more. She also tries to do orders within a four mile radius. She maximizes the base pay and the tips, not the mileage. Shana mentions some restaurants are unreliable, which she learned through trial and error, and she factors that into her decision.

22:12 Has anything really bad or really good happened to you as you worked for Instacart and GrubHub?

Shana says she had unpleasant interactions with Instacart customers. She tells stories about customers that insult her and imply that she is “lesser” for working these side hustles. These customers have no idea that she has a PhD and works as an epidemiologist. Shana shares that she has felt down about having to work side hustles that are not using her expertise, but she gives herself pep talks and reminds herself this is temporary.

25:08 Why didn’t you limit your side hustles to PhD type of work?

Shana explains that she tried through Upwork to offer data analysis and research consultation services, but she didn’t get any clients. She realized that this wasn’t going to work, because she needs quick money. She wanted to be able to make money like an Uber or Lyft driver could.

She was a little ashamed of doing this at first, and she didn’t tell anyone except for her mother and her boyfriend. She felt like she had reached a level of success, like she was “Dr. Green” and she used to teach at a university. She worried that people would view her work at Instacart and GrubHub as a step back. Now she wants to inspire people to take on their debt and work hard for their financial goals. This is why she started her YouTube channel “The Wealth Vibe.”

Emily says that if anyone speaks negatively about this work, as if this work is “beneath them,” that speaks poorly of that person. She also says that Shana is on a great career trajectory, but the work for many PhDs is more limited and many have to be in adjunct position, which typically does not pay well. Emily says Shana is living like no one else like now because she is working hard, but in two years Shana will be debt free and living like no one else in the positive sense.

Shana shares that she also teaches an online course in Epidemiology. This pays $3,000 per semester. She says she makes way more money through GrubHub than she does as an adjunct. Shana says she found that PhD work does not pay well. Emily adds that there’s not enough volume, or demand, for side jobs for PhDs.

35:08 What is your YouTube Channel about?

Shana’s YouTube Channel is called The Wealth Vibe. She creates videos to help people increase their income, help them budget, so that people can build their wealth. She posts monthly videos about making her budget and paying off her debt. She also makes videos about her side hustles and how to maximize money you make. She has made videos about taxes, because her taxes are not withheld and she has to save for tax payments. She says she reaches a broad audience of people who are GrubHub drivers as well as who have PhDs.

39:40 Conclusion

This PhD Couple Combined a Cross-Country Move with a Vacation

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In this episode, Emily tells the story of her 2015 cross-country move from Durham, NC to Seattle, WA for her husband Kyle’s first post-PhD Real Job. Emily breaks down their decision-making around how to move and secure their housing in Seattle. Ultimately, they chose a pod-based moving company and a cross-country road trip/vacation, and Emily shares the exact amount of money they spent on each component of the move and how the logistics worked. Emily concludes with what she wishes she would have done differently. For more discussions on how to financially navigate a move and starting a new position, see pfforphds.com/next.

Further reading:

Links Mentioned in the Episode

cross-country move vacation

Background

In the summer of 2015, Emily and her husband Kyle were one year out from their PhD defenses. Kyle had been postdocing in his PhD advisor’s lab, and Emily had been doing various jobs (Personal Finance for PhDs, freelance editing, and a science policy fellowship).

In May 2015, Kyle applied for several positions, and ultimately was offered a postdoc and an industry job. He accepted the industry position in Seattle, Washington, at the end of May, and set his start date for the beginning of August.

Finding Housing in Seattle

Emily and Kyle’s first step was to research the rental market in Seattle. They were accustomed to the durham housing market, in which you arranged housing several weeks or a couple months in advance of your desired move-in date. However, in Seattle, rentals are typically “available immediately” or only a few days out. Therefore, searching for housing in June for an end-of-July move-in was not the proper timing. However, they used this research to familiarize themselves with the market.

They decided to limit their housing search to 1.5 miles from Kyle’s new work. This was not in downtown Seattle, so the rents were not as exorbitant as it is in other parts of the city. At that time, the rental market in Seattle was very hot, so there was a lot of competition for rentals.

They knew in June that they couldn’t conduct their final housing search right then, but rather got an idea of the range of prices they could expect to pay. Their official housing search would have to wait until after they had moved to Seattle and were ready to take possession of a rental a few days in advance of Kyle’s job’s start date.

Planning the Cross-Country Move

Emily and Kyle’s second step was to start planning their cross-country move: how to get themselves, their car, and their stuff from Durham to Seattle.

There were two main constraints on moving process:

  • As they didn’t yet have housing secured, they had no address to which to deliver their stuff. They had to consider how fast their stuff would move cross-country.
  • They had a relocation budget of $5,000 from Kyle’s new job, which Kyle had ‘accidentally’ negotiated for.

Further reading: The Reluctant Negotiator

Emily and Kyle decided to keep the direct moving expenses within that $5,000 budget so they wouldn’t have to dip into their own money.

Upon starting to research their cross-country move, they found three broad categories of moving styles:

  • Full-service moving: Professional movers load your boxed stuff into a truck, drive the truck to your new home, and unload the stuff. You can additionally pay for packing/unpacking services.
  • DIY moving: You do the entire move yourself. You box and load your things into a rented truck, drive it to your destination, unload it all, and return the truck.
  • Pod-based moving: A pod (portable storage unit) is delivered to your old residence. You pack it up, the company moves it to your destination, and you unpack it. Additional storage time at the destination is easily available. This is at an intermediate price point between full-service and DIY moving.

Emily and Kyle ruled out full-service moving because it cost more than their entire budget and they didn’t have an address to which the boxes would be delivered. DIY moving is the least expensive way to move a lot of stuff but it wasn’t attractive to Emily and Kyle for this particular move. They didn’t want to drive an unfamiliar rented truck and be responsible for their stuff during their entire cross-country drive and throughout their housing search. It seemed a bit too stressful.

Pod-based moving seemed to be a happy medium for Emily and Kyle. The option to store their stuff in Seattle until they concluded their housing search was very attractive. They paired the pod-based moving with driving their own car cross-country. Instead of taking only a few days to drive cross-country, they decided to make the trip into a vacation as well. This slower pace worked well with pod-based moving.

Further reading: Moving Cross-Country with a Pod

Emily and Kyle secured seven quotes for various companies that did pod-based moving. PODS, the most well-known brand, was the most expensive. The lowest quote was from Door-to-Door, and the second-lowest quote was from UPack. They looked most carefully at Door-to-Door and UPack.

The size of the pod became important. The PODS pods were about the size of a parking space, whereas the Door-to-Door and UPack pods were about the size of half a parking space. For Emily and Kyle’s two-bedroom townhouse, PODS recommended using one pod, whereas Door-to-Door and UPack recommended using one pod. Using smaller pods was attractive because Emily and Kyle suspected they might be able to squeeze all their stuff into one pod only. As UPack allowed them to pack their own pod (Door-to-Door did not), they ultimately chose to move with UPack. UPack’s quote for moving two pods cross-country was $3,708.

Emily and Kyle sold and gave away some of their stuff. They sourced moving boxes mostly for free, but had to buy some packing materials as well. Emily’s parents came to town to help them pack, which they did in about a day and loaded their boxes into the two pods. But after getting everything out of the house, they decided to repack everything into one pod, with the remainder going into their car. Dropping down to using only one pod reduced the price to $2,472.

Some other direct moving costs were $155 for one month of storage of the pod in Seattle, $232 for a street permit for the pod to be delivered to the public street.

The total direct moving-related expenses that they asked to be reimbursed from Kyle’s employer was $3,052.39.

Cross-Country Vacation

Emily and Kyle decided to turn their cross-country road trip into a vacation, which was a strategy they had used many times for obligation travel during grad school. It was a much-needed break for rest and relaxation as they had not taken a vacation with just the two of them since their honeymoon five years earlier. They were also hopeful that they would have a baby in the near future, so this trip felt like a last chance at a vacation without other people for a long time.

They decided to arrive in Seattle about a week before Kyle’s job’s start date to give them time to conduct the housing search.

While Emily and Kyle typically planned their travel thoroughly, in this case they prioritized planning their move over planning their cross-country trip, so they basically winged it across the country. All they knew when they left Durham was where they were staying that night, some other friends to visit along the way, that the whole trip should take about 1.5 weeks, and some national parks they would like to see.

The general pattern for the trip was that each morning they would arrange for lodging for that night in the city they expected to drive to that day. They tried to alternate long days of driving with days of staying in one place and doing an activity. This fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants trip was rather uncomfortable for Emily and Kyle!

One unexpected challenge to the trip was that Kyle’s phone died on the first day. They relied only on Emily’s phone for the entire trip. Emily’s phone was and is with Republic Wireless. Once they got a little ways west of the Mississippi River, they didn’t have much phone service outside of major cities. They didn’t even have a paper map with them! So every morning when they booked their lodging, they also wrote out their driving directions for the day because they couldn’t rely on having cell service. Emily does not recommend any of this, but they got through it and it was still fun!

Emily and Kyle’s cross-country road trip included:

  • Visiting and staying 1 night with extended family
  • Visiting and staying 1 night with friends from grad school
  • Dinner with a friend
  • A day at Six Flags with Fast Passes
  • An outdoor festival and fish fry
  • Badlands National Park
  • Mount Rushmore
  • Yellowstone National Park (two full days parts of two days)
  • Grand Teton National Park

Further reading:

Another snafu that caused some overspending had to do with the last-minute travel booking and lack of cell service. They booked a night at the Bear Lodge Motel through Priceline and wrote out their directions to that address. While searching for the address, they saw a sign for Bear Lodge and went there. They didn’t have the booking, so they had to rebook. They realized upon getting into the cabin, they realized they were at the wrong location. They were at the Bear Lodge Mountain Resort, which was about one mile away from the Bear Lodge Motel on the same road. They ended up paying for both hotels that night, which was about $100 wasted. Make sure you go to the right address!

The total cost of the cross-country trip was $2,317.97. Emily and Kyle asked for $1,339.71 to be reimbursed by Kyle’s employer because it was direct moving expenses. The remaining vacation-related expenses were $978.26.

Finding Housing in Seattle

Emily and Kyle arranged to stay with two sets of friends in Seattle to give them about a week to conduct their housing search.

They were ideally searching for a 2BR 1BA apartment in an older building with no amenities as it is fairly expensive to live in Seattle and they were determined to keep their housing cost down.

Further reading: Apartment Search in Seattle

They only viewed three places before they found what they were looking for. The apartment they chose was only 0.2 miles from Kyle’s work. Within just a few minutes of entering this apartment they decided to apply for it, and they had to race another couple to submit their applications and $500 to skip to the front of the application line (which would ultimately go toward the security deposit).

Another challenge to obtaining housing in Seattle was that Emily and Kyle needed to provide their up-front rent and security deposit as a cashier’s check or money order. Because they bank with Ally, they had to find places to provide the needed money orders, which took a couple days.

Emily and Kyle’s total costs to get into their apartment were:

  • $302.48 in one-time fees for applications, processing, and money orders
  • $48 for July 31 rent and water/sewer/garbage
  • $1,495 for August rent and water/sewer/garbage
  • $1,375 for security deposit
  • total: $3,220.48

In addition, Emily and Kyle had already paid a full month’s rent in Durham, and they had not yet received their expected reimbursement for their unused rent.

Another unexpected cost to moving is eating out due to your limited time and lack of access to a full kitchen. Additionally, you can expect to spend more on groceries in your first month following your move as you stock your fridge and pantry.

What Would Emily Do Differently?

Emily hopes you learned from this story and its implicit advice.

If she had a do-over, Emily would have done a few things differently:

  • Spend more time planning the cross-country trip itself to keep costs lower.
  • Get rid of more stuff! They didn’t even unpack some boxes for a year and didn’t even notice that we were missing their contents.
  • Consider their longer-term needs for our housing in Seattle. Their apartment does not have a dishwasher or washing machine and dryer! This was fine before they had kids, but is now a strain with two children.

Emily is focusing a lot of her material on moving and starting a new job this summer, which you can find at pfforphds.com/next. She is offering webinars and coaching on this topic. A move and job transition is the perfect time to set yourself up for financial success!

How to Plan and Prepare for a Frugal Long-Distance Move

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“Don’t do your PhD at the same university you went to for your bachelor’s, and don’t postdoc at the same university you got your PhD from. You need to demonstrate success in multiple environments.” I heard this advice many times during my PhD training, and this is the path I followed: I did my undergrad in California, my postbac in Maryland, my PhD in North Carolina, a fellowship in DC, and now I live in Washington (for my husband’s first post-PhD Real Job). While there are certainly some PhDs who choose to stay in one certain city or region, the norm is to move a couple times or many times, even internationally. All this moving takes significant time and money to execute, especially once you start collecting possessions you actually want to retain. This article outlines how you can plan and prepare for a frugal long-distance move so that you minimize the cost to you in money, time, and stress.

frugal long-distance move

Further reading:

How Much Will Your Move Cost?

The price of a move runs the gamut from quite inexpensive at a few hundred dollars to quite expensive at several thousand or even on the order of $10,000 once all costs are accounted for. The main factors are:

  • the distance,
  • how many people and how much stuff you’re moving,
  • how much labor you choose to outsource, and
  • the wind-down and start-up costs in each city.

On one end of the scale, if you’re a single person and your possessions amount to a suitcase and a box, moving will be fairly inexpensive, perhaps a few hundred dollars for the transportation and whatever your start-up costs are in your new city (e.g., up-front rent and deposits).

On the other end of the scale, if you’re moving your family and all your stuff from a full house, your transportation costs will be quite high, your wind-down and start-up costs may be high, and you may choose to outsource some of the labor associated with moving to keep it time-efficient.

Buying and selling homes also add layers of expenses that I will not cover in this article.

Components of a Long-Distance Move

Long-distance moves can be expensive both in their direct costs and lost income.

The expense components of your move include:

  • Transporting yourself/your family, including housing and feeding in transit
  • Transporting your possessions, including storage in the new city if necessary
  • Transporting your car(s)
  • Packing materials and labor
  • Wind-down expenses for your old residence
  • Start-up expenses for your new residence, including scouting trips if necessary
  • Unpacking labor
  • Childcare

It’s also vital to plan for the income side of the equation. How much time will you take off between the end of your current position and the start of your next position and what does that translate to in missing dollars from your typical income? How much will maintaining your health insurance cost during that period up until you are covered by your new position?

There is often a trade-off between time and money when it comes to moving. Fast transportation costs more than slow transportation for long-distance moves, but slower transportation may necessitate more time away from work. It costs more to outsource labor such as packing, but if it allows you to take fewer days away from work it may be worthwhile.

When and How to Plan a Frugal Long-Distance Move

Moving long-distance is a major project with many moving pieces, so you should start your planning as soon as you know where you’re headed (if not before!).

Where Will You and Your Stuff Go?

Determine where your new home will be or at least when you will decide where to live.

This requires researching the housing market local to your new position.

If you plan to rent, figure out approximately when you need to sign a lease relative to your start date. The answer may be “not until you arrive in the city” or “several months in advance.” Know that you will have to conduct your housing search in earnest in the month or weeks leading up to that time, which may involve an additional trip to the new city.

If you plan to buy prior to your arrival, it’s never too early to start familiarizing yourself with the housing market and choosing a realtor.

Of course, finding appropriate housing is enormously important to your life and finances, but determining when you will take possession of your new residence will likely impact the method(s) you choose for transporting yourself and your stuff. Namely, when you and your stuff arrive in your new city, where will you/it go? Do you need to arrange for storage for your stuff and lodging for yourself for a period of time before you take possession of your new home?

How Will You and Your Stuff Get There?

Tackle the transportation question. You, your possessions, and your car(s) might travel together or separately, so there are a lot of combinations of methods available. Consider the cost, time, and stress involved in each method.

Ways to transport yourself/your family:

  • Plane
  • Train
  • Bus
  • Car (yours or a rental)
  • Cab of a moving truck

Ways to move your possessions:

  • In a car (yours or a rental)
  • Moving truck/trailer driven by professionals
  • Moving truck or trailer driven by you
  • Pod
  • Shipping (mail, bus, plane)
  • Luggage with you while traveling

Ways to move your car(s):

  • Drive it yourself
  • Trail it behind a moving truck
  • Ship it
  • Hire a driver

Some of the simplest combinations of methods for long-distance moves are:

  • Fast and expensive, lots of stuff: Fly yourself with luggage and hire professionals to move your possessions and your car
  • Fast and inexpensive, little stuff: Drive yourself and your possessions in your car or a rental car
  • Fast and inexpensive, lots of stuff: Drive yourself and your possessions in a rented moving truck trailing your car
  • Slow an inexpensive, little stuff: Fly yourself with luggage and ship your possessions
  • Slow and inexpensive, lots of stuff: Drive your own car with possessions, ship remaining possessions in a pod or boxes

There are many transportation configurations possible, so settle on the one that best conforms with your desired amount of time off, how much money you have available for the move, and the degree you want to be involved with the transportation of your possessions. Be sure to get quotes from several providers of each service you are considering.

Settle on the Dates and Book Everything

Negotiate and finalize your end date for your current position and the start date for your new position. If you are using a professional moving service at any stage, book them as soon as you know the dates. Some services book out weeks and months in advance, and the summer is the busy season.

Prepare for the Move Logistically and Financially

Use the months and weeks leading up to your departure date to prepare for the move to make the final days as smooth as possible.

1) Designate a moving fund

In an ideal situation, you will pay for your move with cash, even if it will later be reimbursed by your employer. Set aside the total amount of money you expect to spend on the move, start-up expenses, etc. plus an extra 10% or more for unexpected expenses.

The more time you have leading up to the move, the more opportunity you have to redirect some of your ongoing savings rate or to earn additional money through side hustling.

If paying for your move with cash is not possible, carefully consider the least damaging type of debt available to you, e.g., a personal bank loan or a 0% interest credit card, and make a plan to pay it off as soon as possible with your new paycheck.

2) Start collecting moving materials for free

You’ll likely need at least some moving materials, e.g., boxes, packing material, tape. Boxes can be readily sources for free in your community. Ask nearby grocery and liquor stores when the best day is to pick up their excess boxes. You can also check craigslist, Freecycle, and Buy Nothing for free boxes. Collect boxes from these sources regularly over the weeks leading up to your move so that you can cover most or all of your needs. Don’t expect to find all the free boxes you need the day before you start packing!

If you end up buying new boxes, consider reselling them once you’ve finished with them to recoup some of your costs.

Packing material is more difficult to reuse so you can check some of the same sources for free material but you may need to buy some of your own.

3) Pare down your possessions

Generally speaking, the less stuff you have to move, the less expensive your move will be. Of course, if you sell vital possessions, there will be a cost to acquire them again in your new city. But think of your move as an opportunity to declutter and make sure you only retain what is most useful and/or important to you.

The possessions that you use frequently will have to be packed up or disposed of last, but in the time leading up to your move, you can go through your less frequently used possessions and either pack them or get rid of them. Selling your possessions is a great way to pad your moving fund, and the more time you give yourself in this process, the more likely you are to be able to sell your stuff. You can also give away your possessions that still have life in them through Buy Nothing or Freecycle or donate them to nonprofit organizations like Goodwill, Habitat for Humanity, the Salvation Army, etc. Your possessions without remaining value can be recycled or, as a last resort, put in the garbage.

Execute the Move

All your planning and preparation will pay off once you start your move! In the final days leading up to your departure, you will pack everything up and clean your old residence. It will take a lot of work so don’t try to cram it into too little time. If your movers show up and you aren’t fully packed, they will pack for you and charge you an arm and a leg!

A couple final tips:

  • Make sure to pack the things you will need during your move or upon getting into your new place separately and/or with clear labels. You don’t want to have to open all your boxes to find a saucepan or your work clothes!
  • Be prepared to spend above your normal levels on food as you pack and unpack your kitchen and as you devote your free time to packing instead of cooking.
  • Enlist your friends and family to help with packing and even childcare while you pack. (But return the favor when you have the opportunity!)

To hear my personal story of how my husband and I moved cross-country for his first post-PhD Real Job (not very frugally!), listen to my podcast episode dropping 5/27/2019!

How to Make Money without Working: Credit Card Rewards and 529s

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In this episode, Emily interviews Seonwoo Lee, a PhD student in electrical engineering at Georgia Tech. Seonwoo has mastered two methods to earn extra money without “working.” Emily and Seonwoo discuss in detail their experiences with garnering credit card rewards and give both beginner and advanced tips. Seonwoo also explains a 529 hack he discovered to reduce his state tax bill that is applicable in as many as 30 states. They also briefly touch on several other methods to make money without working that are readily accessible for early-career PhDs.

Links mentioned in episode

make money without working

0:00 Introduction

1:14 Please Introduce Yourself

Seonwoo Lee is a PhD student in electrical engineering at Georgia Tech. He did his undergraduate at Cornell. He pursued a number of ways to make money without actually having a second job.

1:48 Why have you tried to make money without working?

Seonwoo says that if you do it right, you can make more money per hour than working a traditional job. He says it gives you more flexibility, since you can do as much or as little as you want.

There is some effort involved in pursuing these strategies, but it’s not as much time you would put into working if you had a second job. Additionally, some people are prevented from officially working in other capacities, either by the terms of their contract or by their student visa. The strategies they’ll talk about are probably available to any PhD student or postdoc.

3:07 What are the two topics that we’ll go into detail discussing? What are some other strategies?

Seonwoo will discuss credit card rewards as well as banking sign up bonuses. Second, he’ll talk about the 529 trick to save money on your state taxes.

Emily mentions other ways to make money without working.

  1. Emily has sold items when she’s moved as part of a downsizing process. She has sold items on craigslist.
  2. Another option is Ebates *. Here, you make purchases through the Ebates platform and you are selling your information in exchange for money.
  3. Emily presents short term investing in taxable accounts as an option to make money without working. She and her husband paid off student loans through mid-term investing.
  4. Other options are receipt apps like Ibotta, where you upload your receipts and you sell your information to get cash back.
  5. Also, there is the strategy of “car wrapping,” which is wrapping your car in an advertisement and you receive money based on how much you drive. Emily recommends listening to the How to Money podcast for more information on car wrapping.

* This is a referral link. If you sign up and spend $25 through Ebates, you’ll receive a $10 bonus to your account and I’ll receive a referral fee. Thank you for supporting Personal Finance for PhDs!

7:19 How do the credit card rewards and sign up bonuses work?

Seonwoo begins with the caveat that if you can’t manage credit cards responsibly, you should not pursue credit card rewards in any form. If you pay any interest at all when you do this, you are likely not going to reap the benefits of rewards. Emily adds that you already need a good or excellent credit score to pursue these strategies. If you carry a balance on your credit card, this strategy is not for you. Emily says make sure you are using your credit card like a debit card, and if you are you can consider this strategy.

Further reading: Perfect Use of a Credit Card

Seonwoo says that plenty of credit cards offer sign up bonuses. These require you to spend between $500 and $4,000 within the first three months of signing. The bonuses will vary from credit card points to straight cash. The offers will range from $100 to $500 in cash or 30,000 to 100,000 points. Seonwoo says there are ways to meet these minimum spending requirements without spending more than you normally would.

Emily talks about fitting these credit cards into your normal spending. She signed up for a credit card with a minimum spending requirement of $3,000 over three months. She had to put everything she was purchasing on that one card. She picked a time of year when she had to pay for car insurance and flights. She timed signing up for the credit card with when she knew she had above average expenses. Reaching the minimum spend requirements is a hurdle for people with lower income.

Seonwoo says you can see if you can pay your rent with a credit card. He says the fee may be 3%. If that is the only thing stopping you from pursuing a sign up bonus, do the math to see if the rewards are worth it. You can see if you can put tuition or fee charges on the credit card. You can see if you can pay your bills months ahead of time. He says you can buy grocery gift cards to get the charge on the credit card, but then you can spend that gift card over a longer period of time.

Emily says that someone new to this can try it with existing spending, then they can try manipulating their spending.

13:00 Is cash back or points more valuable to a graduate student?

Seonwoo says that cash back is much easier to start with and understand. There are only so many cash sign up bonuses. If you like to optimize things, credit card rewards will be more valuable if you use the rewards for travel.

Emily says that there are cards with a regular cash back rate, like 1-2% back on spending. She says that is a good way to start. Then the next level would be switching to actively pursuing credit card rewards. To make rewards lucrative, you have to be able to redeem them. She explains that in Durham, North Carolina, she couldn’t be loyal to any one airline. But in Seattle, Washington, she makes use of the Alaska Airlines credit card and its reward system.

16:18 What are the pros and cons of the annual fee situation?

Seonwoo says a lot of cards that have sign up bonuses waive the annual fee in the first year. Seonwoo’s strategy is that he signs up for the card, meets the minimum spend requirement, and by month 11 he has decided he won’t pay the annual fee and he will close the card. He says some cards are worth the annual fee, but he wouldn’t recommend keeping the annual fee card to people with lower income.

Seonwoo says that if you cancel within 30 days of being charged the fee, you can often get a refund. Ideally, set up a spreadsheet and reminders to track your credit cards.

18:54 How much money have you made using this strategy?

In his best year for strictly cash, Seonwoo has made about $2,200 to $2,500 from sign up bonuses. He says he has more credit cards and points than he knows what to do with. Most of his rewards have been in credit card points.

Emily says when she was in graduate school and pursuing cash sign up bonuses, she and her husband together made about $1,000. This can alleviate budgetary stress.

20:38 Anything else you want to add on this topic?

Seonwoo brings up how this affects your credit score. In general, when you apply for a credit card, there is a small hit because you have an inquiry on your report. He emphasizes that the point of your credit score is to help you get low interest rate loans or good rewards credit cards. If you’re not applying for a loan in the near future, you can use the credit score for new credit cards. He applied for cards until he started getting denied. He waited a few months, then tried again and got approved. He says people stress out a bit too much about their credit score. He says people should recognize the point of the credit score.

Emily points out that there are positive affects of having several credit cards. She also mentions some cases where you need to keep your credit score high, like when you apply for a new residence or take out a mortgage.

Further reading: How to Establish Credit in the US

24:24 How do banking sign up bonuses work?

Seonwoo says that the main difference is that instead of requiring you to spend money, banking sign up bonuses require you to already have money. You sign up for a new checking account, get a couple of direct deposits in there and keep it open for at least six months, and sometimes make some transactions. You can get between $100 or $350 for signing up for that account. Some have fees, but the bank may waive the fee for students or on other terms.

Emily mentions minimum balances, and Seonwoo clarifies that high balances requirements are usually for savings accounts. Checking accounts have minimum balance between $1500 and $3000, and the percent return is 10% to 20% in six months. This is a good option for your emergency fund.

Seonwoo recommends the blog Doctor of Credit, who has several blogs on these topics.

28:54 What is a 529? What are the benefits of it?

Seonwoo explains that there are two types of 529 plans. One is a prepaid tuition plan, which he is not talking about. The other type is an investment plan. At both the state and federal level, it is not taxed when you withdraw it for education expenses. Emily compares this to an IRA, where you are not taxed on the growth of the money if you use it for retirement. Seonwoo calls it a Roth IRA for education.

Seonwoo says 30 states and the District of Columbia offer a state income tax deduction for contributing to your 529 plan. Most states require that you have a plan with that state, but they don’t require a net contribution for the year. He says you can contribute the money to get a deduction, then pull it out to pay for your expenses.

Emily says cost of living expenses can be considered qualified education expenses for the 529 plan. She explains that you can put money into a 529, then take it out to pay rent, and then you get a state tax deduction or credit. Seonwoo says even if your living expenses are $0, you can still do this. The amount is set by the university’s financial aid office room and board estimate of the cost of attendance.

Seonwoo explains his specific example at Georgia Tech. The financial aid office lists the cost of attendance estimate for room and board as more than $10,000. In Georgia, a single taxpayer can deduct up to $2,000 of a 529 contribution. His marginal tax rate is 6%, so a deduction of $2,000 saves him $120 per year in state taxes. So, he contributes $2,000 to the 529 plan and leaves it in there for 10 days, then he takes it out. This is all it takes to get the tax deduction.

36:37 Where can we go for more resources?

Seonwoo says he learned about this by going through his state tax return to look for deductions. On his blog, he has a college tag and he has a post about the 529. The site Saving for College is a good resource for 529 plans.

Emily says this is a strategy that you need to investigate for your own state. Seonwoo mentions that there are other education credits and deductions available, but you can’t double count expenses. This 529 trick makes use of the living expenses, because this is unique to this tax benefit.

Seonwoo recommends printing to PDF the page from the financial aid office that documents the cost of attendance. This is documentation to keep if you’re audited.

40:50 Final Comments

This episode is about ways to alleviate budgetary stress by leveraging your assets and optimizing your usage of financial accounts.

41:17 Conclusion

How Far Will My New Stipend or Salary Go?

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Virtually every PhD will experience this at one point (if not multiple points): You’re looking at an offer letter, whether for grad school, a postdoc, or a Real Job and you’re not sure what to think about the stipend or salary. Because you’ll have to move to a new city to accept the position, you don’t have any context for understanding if it is reasonable or generous or stingy. Your personal finances as well as the local cost of living play heavily into the determination you have to make. Will you be able to survive (or thrive – or neither) on this salary? How far will your new stipend or salary go toward paying your living expenses and getting ahead financially?

new salary new city

This isn’t at all a trivial question, especially for:

  • Graduate students and postdocs who unfortunately can’t assume they will be paid enough to live comfortably.
  • PhDs who are responsible for the well-being of others, e.g., spouse and/or children.
  • International scholars who are prohibited by their visas from working to earn extra money.

You can attempt to answer this question with little or much research, depending on how invested you are in the outcome and what your initial inquiries turn up.

Further reading:

Find Answers on the Internet

You can find a first-pass, non-personalized answer to “How far will my new stipend or salary go?” at any time over the internet.

Stipend and Salary Databases for PhDs-in-Training

If your offer is for a graduate program, go to PhDStipends.com and search for stipend entries for your university and other universities in your city, if any. Not only will this data tell you what other graduate students are being paid so you can compare your stipend offer, some of the entries contain subjective comments on how possible it is to live on that stipend. The stipends will also be normalized to the local living wage for the county the university is in (the LW Ratio) – more on that in a moment.

Similarly, if your offer is for a postdoc, use postdocsalaries.com.

The Living Wage

For graduate students and possibly postdocs, a well-researched, insightful database is the Living Wage Calculator. For each county in the US, this resource shows you the minimum your necessities will cost (on average) based on your family size. It calculates the “living wage” needed to support one adult, two adults, adults with children, etc. and breaks it down into its constituent categories: food, child care, medical, housing, transportation, other expenses, and taxes.

As graduate students are likely to be paid close to a living wage (perhaps above or below by up to 50%), this database will give you a starting point on what you can expect to spend in your various necessary budget categories. Postdocs who are paid close to the living wage can also utilize this resource. Higher earners and homeowners will not find the calculations as relevant.

Cost of Living Calculators

If you know what you spend on your expenses in your current city, you can use a cost of living comparison calculator to translate that amount of money into an amount of money in your new city based on the differences in the cost of living.

Some of the prominent cost of living comparison calculators are provided by:

These cost of living comparisons also break down into sub-categories of spending such as housing, utilities, food, transportation, etc. However, be warned that the housing data come from a mix of renters and owners, so you may find you own housing costs differ dramatically from the expected increase or decrease.

Find Answers from Your Peers

I think the best way to get an accurate answer to “How far will my new stipend or salary go?” is to survey people currently living on it in your new city, i.e., your future peers and co-workers.

This is trickier for PhDs starting Real Jobs because of the (damaging but firm) culture in most workplaces of not disclosing your salary. However, graduate students and postdocs are usually paid on a set schedule, so you can assume that someone already in the position you have accepted (e.g., within your same department or funded by the same source) does have the same or a similar salary to yours.

Simply ask an open-ended question such as “Are you able to make ends meet on the stipend?” or “Do you live more or less comfortably on the salary?” and see what it elicits. Be sure to ask several different people because you one person’s perspective may not be representative.

Find Individualized Answers through Research

If you are willing to dig into some financial weeds, the ultimate way to obtain an individualized answer to “How far will my new stipend or salary go?” is to draft a budget.

After all, your finances are unique, and looking to average data or asking a few peers will not directly speak to your specific obligations, lifestyle, and preferences.

If you already track your spending and keep a budget, you can use that as a starting point, or you can download a fresh template. There are plenty of templates available online, and I’ve also created one specifically for this purpose, which is available below.

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Some line items on your budget will need major overhauls due to your career and geographic transition:

  • Tax: If you’re changing salary and/or state (or making changes to your household), your income tax bill will need to adjust. Some early-career PhDs might also start or stop paying FICA tax or be excused from paying state income tax depending on the exact type of paycheck they will receive in the new position. My favorite calculator for estimating income and FICA taxes is from Smart Asset.
  • Employee/student benefits: With a change in university and/or employer comes different benefits that you may or may not have to pay for out of pocket. If the amount of money you are responsible for paying is not clearly delineated in your offer letter, it is worth inquiring about as you draft your budget. Examples of these types of payments are premiums (and copays/coinsurance) for your health, vision, and dental insurance; life and/or disability insurance premiums; and tuition and/or fees.
  • Student loans: If you are entering graduate school and have decided to defer your student loans, you’ll need to update your minimum required student loan payments to $0. Conversely, if you are exiting deferment for a postdoc or Real Job, you’ll need to know how much your payments will be. Your loan servicer should be able to tell you your minimum payments. If you have federal loans and are considering an income-driven repayment program, you can use the Repayment Estimator from studentloans.gov to compare your payments under different plans.
  • Living expenses: Obviously, if you are changing cities, many of your living expenses will shift. But the ‘major overhaul’ here is if you need to add or subtract whole budget categories, such car ownership, daycare, and travel to visit family, a partner, and/or friends.

As for your living expenses, you can use one or more of the methods detailed in the first two sections of this article to start putting numbers into each budget category. Some living expenses may stay more or less constant even when you change cities (e.g., cell phone bill, cost of electronics) while others will be subject to the cost of living (e.g., housing, utilities, food).

The most important budget categories to get right from a distance are your large, fixed expenses, e.g., housing, transportation (if you own a car), and childcare. The Living Wage calculator and the cost of living comparisons can help here, but it’s going to be even better for you to do your own research and determine your individualized expenses.

The two best ways to research your housing and childcare costs from a distance (and jump-start your housing search) are to ask your peers what they pay and monitor prices online for at least several weeks before you commit to your expense. (Knowing when to sign a lease/pay a deposit is part of familiarizing yourself with a market!)

Drafting a budget will help you decide how much you can afford to spend on these large fixed expenses, so it will be most beneficial to start drafting this budget before you commit to any expenses. Your ability to reach financial goals in your first year in your new position will likely hinge on getting these large, fixed expenses set at an appropriate level, so it’s worth quite a bit of time and research. Variable expenses can be changed more or less on a dime and small expenses aren’t so impactful, so it (literally) pays to focus your effort on the large fixed expenses.

If you would like some additional help with drafting your new budget at a distance, please purchase my previously recorded webinar ($24.99) below. The 30-minute “Draft Your Budget from a Distance” webinar also includes the budget template spreadsheet described above.

The objective of the webinar is to help you draft a complete budget for your new position (in a new city) so that you can set your large, fixed expenses at a reasonable level for your income and determine in advance what financial goals you might set for the next phase in your career.

Sign Up for “Draft Your Budget at a Distance”

The final answer to “How far will my new stipend or salary go?” will only come once you’re living in your new city. But you can start getting approximations on that answer immediately from online sources and your future peers. These initial answers may prompt you to create a more detailed draft budget before you move if it looks like you will experience a financial challenge or reaching financial goals is important to you. This budget will help you determine how much you can afford to spend on the expenses that are generally fixed prior to or upon your move. It will also help you decide how much money you can put toward your financial goals during your next position.

What to Do With Your 401(k) or 403(b) When You Start Grad School

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One of the common perks that companies and organizations give to their employees is access to a workplace-based retirement account such as a 401(k) or 403(b). They may even match your contributions to a degree! Unfortunately the great majority of universities do not give their graduate students access to their 403(b)s. (This does happen rarely, so it’s worth inquiring about.) If you had a 401(k) or 403(b) in a prior job, what do you do with that account when you leave your job for grad school?

Further reading: Financial Reasons to Work Before Starting Your PhD

401k grad school

Your Three Options for Your Workplace-Based Retirement Account

In general when you leave a job, you have three options for what to do with your 401(k) or 403(b).

Leave It Where It Is

Most of the time, your former employer will permit you to leave your 401(k) or 403(b) where it is and continue to manage the account for you while you are in grad school. Employers usually have a minimum balance requirement to maintain these accounts, so your account has to meet that bar.

The upside to this approach is that you don’t have to do anything, and if you liked the investment options and account fees, you can keep using it.

The downside to this approach is that you have to stay in some degree of contact with your former employer and go through them if you want to make any changes to the account.

Roll to Your New Workplace-Based Retirement Account

If you have the option to open a 403(b) with your university, you may be able to roll your previous 401(k) or 403(b) into that account. Again, this opportunity is rarely extended to grad students.

Roll to an IRA

You always have the option when you leave a job to roll your 401(k) or 403(b) into an Individual Retirement Arrangement (IRA). An IRA’s tax advantages are similar to those of a workplace-based retirement account, but you manage the account yourself instead of your employer managing it. Be sure that you have instructed your firms to execute a “rollover” directly to your IRA and not to cash out your account and send you a check, which would be a hassle to correct. You can use an existing IRA account or open an IRA account specifically to receive this transfer.

Which Option Should You Choose?

The general personal finance advice is to always roll your 401(k) or 403(b) when you leave an employer to avoid eventually having accounts scattered across many employers and potentially losing track of one. Whether you should roll into your new employer’s 401(k) or 403(b) or your IRA is debated. If you are trying to optimize the investments inside your retirement account, IRAs have an advantage because the entire world of investment options is open to you, whereas the options inside a 401(k) or 403(b) are only what your employer decides to make available. Sometimes, 401(k) or 403(b) plans are more expensive than what you can get inside an IRA, and since cost minimization is a key tenant of successful investing, again IRAs are preferred.

However, this general advice is not necessarily fully applicable to grad students.

First, your options are mostly likely to be either to leave your 401(k) or 403(b) where it is or to roll it into an IRA.

Second, you may not want to manage your own investments. While managing your IRA can be easy and hands-off, it may still be intimidating, and some students might prefer to simply choose among the options offered by the former employer to opening and managing an IRA.

Third, the investments available to an individual investor inside an IRA may not be as attractive as the institutional-level investments available inside a 401(k) or 403(b) in terms of their fees. To paint with an overly broad brush, 401(k) and 403(b) options at smaller companies and organizations may be more expensive than what you can buy inside an IRA, whereas 401(k) and 403(b) options at larger companies and organizations may be less expensive than what you can buy inside an IRA. So if you were employed by a university or a large company before starting grad school, compare the cost (expense ratios) of your current investment options with those at the brokerage firm you’re considering for your IRA. It may turn out that your existing options are more favorable.

Further reading:

My advice to entering grad students is to roll your 401(k) or 403(b) into an IRA unless you have high-quality, inexpensive investment options inside the workplace-based retirement account and do not want to manage your own account.

Other Advice Related to Retirement Saving

You’re on a great path already by starting to invest for retirement through your job. If at all possible, continue to make excellent choices related to retirement investing during grad school.

Contribute Money to Your 401(k) or 403(b) While You Still Can

It’s a great idea to kick your retirement savings rate into an even higher gear in the months you have left at your job. You’re likely to not have access to a 401(k) or 403(b) again for quite a while, so any additional money you can get into that tax-advantaged account will be a huge boon to your post-PhD self. (Plus, you’re forcing yourself to deflate your lifestyle, which you’ll have to do in a few months anyway!)

However, don’t become so zealous about retirement saving that you compromise your cash position. It’s going to take a good amount of cash to transition into grad school between moving costs, start-up expenses, and university fees. You don’t want to put a lot of money inside your 401(k) or 403(b) only to turn to credit cards to make it until your first grad school paycheck.

Keep Investing for Retirement!

Yes, it is sometimes possible to invest for retirement during grad school, but it heavily depends on your stipend, the local cost of living, and the rest of your financial situation. If you have no pressing debt, enough cash savings for emergencies and short-term expenses, and some excess cash flow, please continue to invest for retirement!

Further reading:

If you have W-2 income as a grad student (typically from an assistantship) in a given calendar year, you can contribute to an IRA. If you don’t have IRA eligibility due to receiving only non-W-2 (typically fellowship) income in a given calendar year, don’t let that stop you from investing for retirement! You can still use a taxable brokerage account. Between tax-efficient investments and your low tax bracket, you are likely to still enjoy tax benefits of investing even outside of an IRA.

Further reading:

Consider Traditional to Roth Conversion During Grad School

During your time in grad school, you may be in a lower tax bracket than you were while at your previous job. Grad students, unless married to someone with a much higher income, are usually in the 12% marginal tax bracket at the highest.

If you have any money in a traditional 401(k), 403(b), or IRA (which you certainly would if you ever received a retirement contribution match from your employer), consider converting it from traditional to Roth during your lower-earning grad school years. It’s pretty unlikely that you’ll ever be in the 12% (or lower) tax bracket again after you finish grad school due to both your personal earning potential and today’s rock-bottom income tax rates, so it makes sense to do the conversion at that low tax rate to gain the benefits of a Roth IRA. (People are flocking to do this type of conversion even in much higher tax brackets!)

Further reading: Why the Roth IRA Is the Ideal Long-Term Savings Vehicle for a Grad Student

When you do the conversion, you’ll have to pay income tax on the full balance of your traditional retirement account. Before you start the conversion process, be sure that you 1) have enough cash to pay the tax and 2) are not bumping yourself into a higher tax bracket with that income infusion.

You don’t have to rush to do this in your first full calendar year as a grad student if you’re not ready, but you should do it as early as you can, and keep an eye on that year in which you expect to finish and get a higher-paying job.

This conversion can be slightly complicated if you only want to convert part of your traditional money in any given year, so be sure to discuss your plans with the brokerage firm that houses your IRA.

Conclusion

Great job on contributing to a 401(k) or 403(b) prior to starting grad school! The positive financial habits you’ve already cultivated will serve you well during and after grad school. If you want to take any steps at all with your existing workplace-based retirement account, they are quite straightforward and easily accomplished.