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This PhD-Prepared Nurse Managed a Night Shift Side Hustle Despite It Being Frowned Upon

September 25, 2023 by Jill Hoffman Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Dr. Jacqueline Nikpour, who holds a PhD in nursing from Duke University and is currently a postdoc at the University of Pennsylvania. Jackie side hustled with occasional nursing per diem jobs to supplement her stipend during grad school, but her side job also conferred unexpected benefits to her dissertation and career progression overall. Jackie details how she managed her schedule to fit in her research and writing, night shift job, and personal life. Jackie and Emily also discuss how finances are a barrier for many people to even pursue a PhD, how one-size-fits-all prohibitions against side hustling hurts the PhD workforce, and how Jackie advocates for the grad students she works with now.

Links mentioned in the Episode

PhD-Prepared Nurse Managed a Night Shift Side Hustle Despite It Being Frowned Upon

Teaser

00:00 Jackie N: You don’t just exist in academia as a, as a person and have nothing outside of it. Like we are fully complex, complicated, messy humans. And we sort of are the total package that we are. And so I think just creating a little bit more flexibility in place because every student, every discipline is so vastly different.

Introduction

00:28 Emily: Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others.

00:58 Emily: This is Season 16, Episode 2, and today my guest is Dr. Jacqueline Nikpour, who holds a PhD in nursing from Duke University and is currently a postdoc at the University of Pennsylvania. Jackie side hustled with occasional nursing per diem jobs to supplement her stipend during grad school, but her side job also conferred unexpected benefits to her dissertation and career progression overall. Jackie details how she managed her schedule to fit in her research and writing, night shift job, and personal life. Jackie and I also discuss how finances are a barrier for many people to even pursue a PhD, how one-size-fits-all prohibitions against side hustling hurts the PhD workforce, and how Jackie advocates for the grad students she works with now.

1:46 Emily: I’d like to take this opportunity to invite you to the next Ask Me Anything on mortgages and being a first-time homebuyer with Sam Hogan, which will be this Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:30 PM ET / 5:30 PM PT. Sam is a mortgage originator specializing in early-career PhDs, an advertiser with Personal Finance for PhDs, and my brother. If you are considering or embarking on the home-buying process and have a question about any aspect of it, please join us! That goes double if you have fellowship income, which can throw a wrench in the mortgage approval process. Register for the September session or any upcoming one at PFforPhDs.com/mortgage/.

2:35 Emily: You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s16e2/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Dr. Jackie Nikpour.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

02:51 Emily: I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today, Dr. Jackie Nikpour she is a PhD prepared nurse, currently doing a postdoc at the University of Pennsylvania. And our topic today is side hustling, especially as a graduate student. So Jackie, I’m really pleased that you decided to join me on the podcast today to talk about this topic and will you please introduce yourself to the audience a little bit further?

03:13 Jackie N: Sure. Thanks so much for having me, Emily. So, like you said, I’m currently finishing up my postdoc at the University of Pennsylvania. I’m a nurse by training, so started my career as a registered nurse in pediatrics, medicine, behavioral health, and then went into grad school, finished my Ph.D., and now working at the Center for Health Outcomes and Policy Research at the University of Pennsylvania School of Nursing. A lot of folks know that as the center that does all of the research on nurse staffing ratios and how that impacts patients.

03:51 Emily: And you shared with me just before we started that you are currently interviewing for a faculty position, so you are pursuing the academic faculty route.

03:58 Jackie N: Correct. I really want to stay in the research realm. Scholarship is sort of my bread and butter. And so teaching is something that I enjoy and I want to do. But my my focus is more tenure track.

Working Before Pursuing a PhD

04:13 Emily: And can you give me an idea of how long you worked as a nurse before you pursued your Ph.D.?

04:18 Jackie N: Yeah. So I would say everyone, every nurse who participates has a little bit of a different story. So I say I’m a kind of nontraditional person, but I don’t think there really is a traditional PhD prepared nurse anymore if there ever even was to begin with. So I kind of always knew from my undergraduate nursing school research experiences that I wanted to be on the research side. And I knew from both my personal life as a caregiver for a chronically ill parent and as a nurse later on, caring for kids from all over the world at Children’s Hospital, Philadelphia, but also kids from Philadelphia who oftentimes were from low income neighborhoods and might not have always had the resources to to stay healthy. I kind of knew that that as a nurse, I was often a Band-Aid for a very broken health care system. So I worked full time for a year and then pursued. I went directly from a B.S. to a PhD or a Bachelor of Science in nursing to a program. I don’t have a master’s degree at some point, and I get one that’s, again, that sounds a little bit atypical, but it’s becoming more and more common. These are more obviously research degrees, whereas a master’s in nursing is much more clinically oriented for the most part, so it’s seen as less of a requirement. So worked full time for a year, went into my PhD program and then we’ll talk about this a little bit later on. But about halfway through, started working as a nurse again in a per diem.

Transitioning From Nurse to PhD Student

05:59 Emily: Yeah. So the reason I wanted to kind of ask for this is because I wanted to know your motivation for taking side, hustling very seriously while you were in your PhD program. And I wonder if it was because you had experienced an income decrease coming into graduate school. It sounds like maybe you did, but it wasn’t like you had, you know, been multi multi year has grown accustomed that lifestyle. You were still kind of in a student kind of mindset, is that right?

06:20 Jackie N: Definitely. But it still was a hit. You know, I worked full time. I worked for a very well-renowned hospital, which is great in terms of the experiences I got. But also I think because of the name of certain well known hospitals, the pay isn’t quite as high. And so I was also long distance with my now husband before we were married at the time. So. So that was a hard kind of financial thing, traveling back and forth from Philadelphia to Atlanta. And I, you know, left that position, moved and went to making probably about half of the income that I was. But I prepared for that. I worked really hard to save up a lot of money as much as I could before I left. I tried really hard not to take as many vacation days as I had available so that they could all get paid out and say I was leaving all things that were a little bit tough but I knew were temporary and would help kind of set me up for success knowing I was going into a PhD program that would not offer the same kind of income support

Doctoral Institution and Stipend

07:30 Emily: And so where did you do your Ph.D. and how much was your stipend when you started?

07:35 Jackie N: I did my PhD at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina. And when I started out, Oh gosh, I have to think back, when I started my stipend was in the 35 to 40000 range. I can’t remember specifics, but it was relatively decent. Actually a big reason that I went there was lots of reasons that I pick my program, but it was helpful that Durham, North Carolina, did not have the same high cost of living as major cities like Philadelphia or Atlanta or other places that I was looking at. So that was a cost. You know, that was a driver for me. And as I’m sure it is, and what is for a lot of people. So that kind of went into my my decision making and leading up to starting with the PhD program, I definitely plan out the financial. It’s very uncertain what my outlook was going to look like.

Why Start a Side Hustle?

08:32 Emily: Okay. So it sounds like you prepared really well in that year that you had working to do to set yourself up again for starting the program and you said you started side hustling about halfway through. So what was the reason for it? Was it financial or were there other other factors?

08:45 Jackie N: Yeah. So I would say that there’s a couple of things. One of the, I guess both challenges and opportunities that I had was I was part of a national scholarship program that fully funded my tuition, have some funding for expenses like conference travel, provided extra mentorship, things like that. And in exchange for that, I completed my Ph.D. program in three years, actually, I did mine in two years and seven months, which is very chaotic. But it was good and was not crazy in the nursing field. I would say most people do their PhD between three and five years, a little bit more, a little bit less depending because you’re not in a lab, you’re not really working as an R.A. or TA as much as maybe in a STEM or humanities type of field by job. But all that to say that once I got through the first half of my program, which was very class oriented and I was, you know, really hunkering down during the semester and focusing on coursework, once I got through that and I was no more focused on my dissertation, I had a little bit more flexibility. I think I wanted more clinical experience because again, I’d only had about one year of full time clinical work and I had a really good friend who I was living with at the time and she is very passionate about the adolescents with severe eating disorders population and turned out there was a facility about 10 minutes from my apartment that she started working at and they were really actively hiring folks was right before COVID hit and I decided, okay, you know, if I can do this per diem and sort of make my own schedule so that I’m still, you know, obviously prioritizing my Ph.D. and finishing my dissertation, this might be a nice way to make some extra income. And further my clinical training, which even though I’m focused on the research side, I think having clinical experience to some degree have helped shape your way of thinking. So all of those things kind of came together and supported me in doing that. Then I say it was right before COVID because after I got hired about three months later, COVID hit, everything was remote. So I wasn’t driving back and forth to campus anymore, which saved me some time. So I was doing my Ph.D. kind of discussion work from home and then just driving 10 minutes in and 10 minutes home the next morning because I work night shift sort of on a schedule that I was able to to choose. And you, you know, all of those things kind of coincided, too, to allow me to continue.

Side Hustle Schedule

11:36 Emily: So it sounds like you were really thinking about the side hustle as part of your career progression as well. Yeah, although to me, when you said you completed your PhD in two years and and nine months, it was a bit shocking to hear that you also fit in a major side hustling position once you started really working on a dissertation. So we’re going to talk more about that in a moment. So you mentioned, you know, what your side hustle was, why you decided to pursue it. Can I ask maybe this is a silly question, but working the overnight shift, were you sleeping overnight or were you then sleeping during the day or like how did that aspect of it work?

12:12 Jackie N: So I would really plan my schedule based on what I had going on. So like for example, Monday mornings I was always meeting with my statistician to do the actual, actual quantitative findings from my dissertation. So I wasn’t working Sunday nights because I knew I had to meet with her every morning at not every Monday. So I was planning out my schedule a few weeks in advance based on when I knew that I had a meeting scheduled, I would block off time to work on my dissertation on my calendar and really only picked those nights that I knew I could sleep in the next morning. So I would work 7 p.m. to 7 a.m., get home, sleep until about noon or 1 p.m. and then wake up and kind of go about the rest of my day. The days after night shift were a little bit tricky, so I tried to use those days to get done work that didn’t involve as much brainpower. If you will catch up on emails, Maybe if I had like a paper that I was a coauthor on and I just had to look over it and provide edits, I could do that. But those were not my, like super heavy intellectual working and writing my dissertation days. I sort of staggered those so that I wasn’t doing that. I really only worked probably 2 to 4 nights per month, maybe a little bit more in the summer. But it ended up being about one or two nights a week, if that, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on schedule.

13:49 Emily: What I like about what you said about how you set this up and what I think is applicable to other people who might not be taking on night shifts for their, you know, side hustle or maybe managing it at a different time is how you kind of you said a week or two in advance you would sort of like theme the days like on this day I’m going to be doing my heavy thinking dissertation work, really doing analytical stuff on this day. I know I’m going to be doing lighter work for your reason. It was because your sleep schedule was a little bit disrupted, but for other people there may be other reasons do that just because they maybe learned their own natural energy to the week when they’re going to work best and whatnot. And this is something that I have, I did not learn as a student, but I have only learned as an entrepreneur that like it’s really helpful, I think, to literally the podcast that I listen to, it calls this theme days. So like in my business, I have days when I’m more focused on clients and days and I’m more focused on content and days where I’m focused on business operations and so I find it really helpful not to just be like at any moment I could be doing any work and it’s all top priority, you know, like I know what the priority is for the day. So I really like that about the schedule that you developed.

14:49 Jackie N: I would say looking back, you know, I don’t think I intended to do that originally, but I do think that taking that role on really how my time management skills because I didn’t have a choice and and that was something that, you know, set me up for for success down the line. It not only allowed me to kind of think about how I would approach my week and set up days with, you know, priorities for the day and what that focus was going to be. But it also set me up to be in a better position when I was going for postdocs and even just life in general. One thing I did mention was that I was also planning a wedding at the time, so so that was a huge help for that. It was a huge thing that allowed me to help pay down my student loans during the student loan pause when there was no interest accruing. So it ended up being an incredibly valuable experience and in a lot of ways that maybe I didn’t anticipate when I started.

15:51 Emily: Yeah, is there anything else that you want to kind of add about that? People don’t like the word balance anymore, but the way you worked between your dissertation, work your side hustle, your life, everything else, anything else you want to add about that?

16:06 Jackie N: I would just say that I think it required a lot of intention. I am very lucky that I had a supportive partner, but even if you don’t have a romantic partner, you know, having people that you can ask for help when things get a little bit chaotic and knowing your own limits and knowing like, let’s say someone who is going to pick up a shift, if I knew it was a really busy week, say, you know, I can’t do this. So knowing to ask for help, knowing when you need to back off certain things. And I agree. I mean, the word balance, I think is hard because it’s never like a 50/50 balance of anything. It’s sometimes this is going to take the priority. You know, sometimes I need to be focusing on finishing this dissertation chapter. Sometimes it’s going to be summer and I keep focus a little bit more on making extra money for my wedding? Things like so priorities shift and just being mindful and aware of that. You go along. It’s for me something that I still do. You know, I’m not in a [??] role anymore.

17:12 Emily: And I love that so much. It’s just another way to like sort of broaden your horizons and, you know, get outside of the academic setting and academic bubble through your work and you’re also making money the same time. It doesn’t hurt.

17:23 Jackie N: Which was really, really valuable. And, and one thing that I wish was maybe a little bit more normalized in nursing programs. There’s a little bit of a hush hush kind of policy of you’re not supposed to be working because you’re supposed to be focusing on your dissertation. But stipends are low and often don’t meet the cost of living. And it’s a little bit untenable to expect graduate students who have a very applicable set of skills to not be using them in cases when they’re able to.

Commercial

18:01 Emily: Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, frugality, increasing income, or student loans, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer seminars and workshops on these topics and more in a variety of formats, and I’m now booking for the 2023-2024 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, or postdoc office? My seminars are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/speaking/ or simply email me at emily@PFforPhDs.com to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Side Hustle Policies

19:22 Emily: Let’s talk about that a little bit more. So like, was there an official policy either for your scholarship or in your program regarding side hustling?

19:32 Jackie N: Yes and no. It was a little bit of an honor system in general, I would say, at least in most research intensive programs. I don’t know about teaching or other programs. It’s a little bit kind of hush hush like you’re not supposed to outwardly say that you’re working clinically. You know, I never told my advisor until after I finished my dissertation. Now that she wouldn’t have been understanding, but just that I didn’t want to put myself in a position where I was potentially not being seen in a very positive light. And that’s that was hard. You know, I wanted to grow my skills and I got a lot out of that, like I said, influenced my career and my and my research. For my scholarship program. And we came in, they had told us, you know, you’re not supposed to work more than 20 hours a week, and 20 hours meaning in addition to your your your scholarship and your your studies. But a lot of times people were just not either following that or some universities will require their students, their students, to to pay for 25 hours a week during the semester. And then it becomes a conflict between the scholarship and the school. And you’re kind of caught in the middle. And that’s a really hard position to be in to. The other thing is that if you are, so that was the scholarship that I was a part of, that was through a private foundation called the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. It’s a very large health care foundation. I was not funded as a PhD student through NIH, National Institutes of Health. As a postdoc I am. NIH training grants that fund PhD students and postdocs have a limit that you are not allowed to work more than 10 hours per week outside of your funded scholarship work. And that’s, in my opinion, a little bit outdated because NIH also sets limits on what you are able to be paid annually. And so it was like, okay, you’re telling me this is how much money I’m going to be making and I can’t work more than this amount outside of this. So what am I supposed to do if I’m not meeting ends meet? Like it’s just is a little, and there’s ways I think to to kind of I don’t want to say get around it, but like for example, I was a co-investigator on a study and ended up doing the the brunt of the actual work in terms of we did qualitative interviews. I led a lot of the quantitative analysis and we ended up with an extra, I think like $500 on the grant. And it was just used to sort of compensate me for the additional labor that I took on. So that’s not like a quote getting around it like that. It’s perfectly legal, if you will, but there’s other situations in which that’s not a tenable way to exist as a PhD student or as a postdoc. And so I think that’s a big structural barrier that a lot of people are kind of calling on NIH to address.

23:13 Emily: What would you put forth as like your preferred policy? Like, would there not be a number, like a ceiling on outside work or like, Well, because we all like, I think everybody is in agreement that the Ph.D. work, the dissertation needs to be the number one priority. And the person, whether as a position or as a postdoc like, you know, be making progress towards whatever your goals are and whether it’s side hustling that has gotten in the way of that or whether it’s something else has gotten in the way of that, like the student or postdoc and the supervisor need to make sure that that person is still on track. So what should what should the language be?

23:47 Jackie N: That’s a good question. And I don’t know if I have a specific this is what it should be instead of this, but I do think that it should not be a one size fits all case because this is the case across all NIH, NIH has 27 institutes and centers and these students and all of those kind of areas of research look very, very different. And nursing is a great example, right? If we’re told you can’t work more than 10 hours a week outside of your scholarship postdoc work, well, nursing shifts are typically 12 hours in line. So you’re telling me I can’t pick up a 12 hour shift on a Saturday or Sunday when I’m working 40 hours Monday through Friday? Like that’s it just wasn’t designed with that in mind because it was designed to be a one size fits all case. So I think it’s about maybe tailoring some of these things for each discipline or each university or I think what I’m seeing just more broadly and a lot of college programs is mentor mentee sort of informal kind of contracts where each party, each mentor mentee kind of shares what that relationship is going to be like and what each person’s responsibilities are and creates an opportunity to come up with an individualized plan for your development as a scholar. And when those are in place, I think that does open the door to more conversations like, Hey, listen, advisor, I really need to make extra money. Not only, you know, because my stipend is as low as a student, but what about people who have kids or what are people who have aging parents or other kind of life things going on that that they need to be able to support, you know, those sorts of things I think need to be addressed because that’s what you’re bringing to the table, right? You don’t just exist in academia as a, as a person and have nothing outside of it. Like we are fully complex, complicated, messy humans. And we sort of are the total package that we are. And so I think just creating a little bit more flexibility in place because every student, every discipline is so vastly different.

Structural Barriers in Academia

26:13 Emily: Yeah, I’m starting to, as I’ve put more and more of my own focus on advocacy and not just on like the personal of personal finance. I’m seeing the finances of PhDs as a workforce development issue. And you kind of brought this up earlier, like who gets to do a Ph.D.? Who gets to the completion point of a Ph.D.? And the finances can play into this in terms of what populations even are able to pursue that. So can you talk a little bit more about that?

26:40 Jackie N: Absolutely. I think there are so many structural barriers that limit even who is able to get in the door in academia. And I have colleagues who are in the very position where they’re low income, have family in a different state or in some cases in a different country, oftentimes are trying to send money back home to support their low income families. Maybe not may not be able to afford a car, especially in a place like where I was in Durham. I had friends who they couldn’t afford to purchase a vehicle, which was hard because it’s a very car dependent place. You know, there wasn’t a ton of public transportation available. And so that impacts even the time it takes you to get to class and how long you you have to study and get stuff done maybe in the morning before classes or how long it takes to get home. And that’s just the timing takes away from other things that you could be doing, including your dissertation or assignments. Are there is the caregiver aspect that we just talked about. There’s so many things, plus the fact that, you know, this is a very low wage job because that’s what it is. It’s a full time job. You know, you’re still a student, but it’s work. And and there’s just so many people who I think we lose out on in all disciplines because they are not able to turn their lives upend their lives to complete the demands of a program. And there’s no resources in place to support so many of them.

Advocacy in Academia

28:29 Emily: So the side hustling could help, Right? Side hustling is a bit of a Band-Aid. Like ideally NIH, everybody else would just pay people enough that at least most situations you wouldn’t need a side hustle. Now, in your case, we just talked about side hustling had other advantages besides the financial and that’s awesome. So can you tell me, is there anything you’d like to add about how you advocate now for other PhD prepared nurses around being able to side hustle so they should they so choose.

28:55 Jackie N: Absolutely. I think, you know, I’m still in a postdoc role, but I do have students who I sort of informally mentor and like, for example, I work on on one project that is a clinical pathway. We support patients who are insured by Medicaid in discharging home from hospital, make sure they get the support resources they need so that they’re not readmitted. We have grad students who work on our data collection, who run our weekly case conference meetings, who do a lot of that labor. And I’m always, you know, encouraging them and watching them make sure you’re keeping track of your hours, make sure that you are submitting for all of the time that you are eligible to be paid, because we want you to get as much money as you as you are entitled to right like you’re signed on for 10 hours a week. Like make sure that you’re actually submitting those 10 hours per week. I am. I work a lot with trying to make sure that, let’s say when we hire doctoral students, research assistant, what is the maximum amount that we’re able to pay? And let’s pay them off because first of all, that’s grant money that needs to be spent anyway, number one. Number two, I know what it’s like to be in the position. I was in it very recently myself and so I would say a lot of that advocacy that I’m doing is just within my own kind of world and those students that I work with. But it’s also showed me a lot about the kind of mentor that I want to be, Let’s say when I have my own PhD student advisees. I want to make sure that I’m creating a culture where I know what my students needs are and they need to work to support that and support their families, then I’m going to work with them to make that happen. No matter what we need to do, we’re going to get it done. I think myself and a lot of other folks, anytime there’s like an NIH open comment period about how we support career postdoctoral trainees who are funded through NIH, I really make an effort to to comment on those sort of open forums and give examples of here’s what let’s say raising the stipend for each, let’s say first year, second year, third year each has its own kind of stipend, years of experience. Raising those that could help support so many things that actually contribute to better scholarship because you’re not spending ten, 20 hours a week doing this other work. So that’s part of it. I will also say that, you know, this was not my case, but I know folks who were in student unions as students, I will say in one case in a major cities like New York and L.A., where cost of living is super high, it’s actually a little bit of a disadvantage if you want to get an NIH doctoral funding award because the stipends for that would be lower than what you would get as a stipend just by being a physician at the university. And so that’s a barrier because getting those awards sets you up to be competitive for postdocs and faculty candidates. And so that’s creating space to dismantle some of those structural barriers that prevent people from even entering academia in the first place and then developing the best science that they can.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

32:23 Emily: Love it, Jackie. I think we need to leave it there. The hour has flown, so I want to ask you the last question that I ask. Of all my guests, which is what is your best financial advice for another early career? It could be something that we’ve touched on in the interview already, or it could be something completely new.

32:39 Jackie N: I would say the best advice that I can give to anyone financially going to a PhD program is just to plan as much as you can for the years ahead. You know, you’re in a PhD program, you’re already going to be, you know, I think I don’t think there’s been a PhD student who’s never been stressed out. So you’re already going to be stressed out about figuring out your dissertation, finishing your coursework, getting all the things that you need to to to get your degree. You know, you don’t want to be stressed about finances, too. I think when I first entered my PhD program, I was so I need to know exactly what my dissertation question is going to be because I’m on this three year track and I don’t know what I’m going to do, how I’m going to have enough time. I wish I hadn’t been so focused on that and I had, you know, more so narrowed my focus. I mean I did to some extent, but just planning out and budgeting. Okay, what realistically is my income going to be? How can I save up as much as I can and prepare to not have this be a stressor when I’m in the midst of everything else? And that also includes knowing, you know, sorry, but that also includes knowing about what life is with taxes as a PhD student, because it’s very, very different than I expected. So just knowing what to expect, I think, again, your your website and your your content and your podcast is a great way to support incoming PhD students. So just the preparation involved is what I would say.

34:14 Emily: Well, Jackie, I love that advice. It’s been so wonderful to talk with you and thank you so much for volunteering to come on the podcast.

34:20 Jackie N: Of course. Thank you for having me.

Outtro

34:27 Emily: Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by Dr. Lourdes Bobbio and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

How This Grad Student Budgeted for Having Her First Child

September 11, 2023 by Jill Hoffman 3 Comments

In this episode, Emily interviews Madeline Hebert, a rising second-year PhD student in Human Development and Family Sciences at the University of Connecticut. Madeline’s household has an irregular income; her assistantship stipend varies between the academic year and the summer and her husband is paid hourly throughout the year with a variable schedule. Madeline details her household budget, which accounts for their irregular income, irregular expenses, and financial goals. Their biggest financial goal at the moment is to provide for their new baby, due just a few weeks after this interview was recorded. Emily and Madeline discuss the Big Five expenses that new parents need to account for: health insurance, parental leave, childcare, baby stuff, and home/car. Madeline shares all she’s learned about the benefits she receives at the federal, state, and university levels (she is part of a union), and how important it is to talk with your peers about their financial experiences.

Links mentioned in the Episode

How This Grad Student Budgeted for Having Her First Child

Teaser

00:00 Madeline H: Really look and consider that quality of life package portion of the Ph.D. like research interest that is super important. But having a livable arrangement is also extremely important for peace of mind, for, I knew that for us, pregnancy was a very real option for us during my Ph.D. So, I want to see like, what would that look like? What what coverage do they have and what kind of protections do they have? So.

Introduction

00:31 Emily: Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others.

01:01 Emily: This is Season 16, Episode 1, and today my guest is Madeline Hebert, a rising second-year PhD student in Human Development and Family Sciences at the University of Connecticut. Madeline’s household has an irregular income; her assistantship stipend varies between the academic year and the summer and her husband is paid hourly throughout the year with a variable schedule. Madeline details her household budget, which accounts for their irregular income, irregular expenses, and financial goals. Their biggest financial goal at the moment is to provide for their new baby, due just a few weeks after this interview was recorded. Madeline and I discuss the Big Five expenses that new parents need to account for: health insurance, parental leave, childcare, baby stuff, and home/car. Madeline shares all she’s learned about the benefits she receives at the federal, state, and university levels—she is part of a union—and how important it is to talk with your peers about their financial experiences.

02:08 Emily: My Office Hours are open to you this fall! About once per month I host a free Zoom call to which you can bring any financial question or topic that relates to your journey as a PhD or PhD-to-be to discuss with me and the other attendees. These sessions are limited to four people each. Register through PFforPhDs.com/officehours/. I look forward to speaking with you there! You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s16e1/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Madeline Hebert.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

02:55 Emily: I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today. Madeleine Hebert. She is a rising second year PhD student at the University of Connecticut. Now, we are recording this interview in late July 2023. By the time you hear this, Madeleine will ideally have a new family member joining her, which she will talk about later on in the interview. So first, we’re going to discuss irregular incomes and supplementing your income as a graduate student. How Madeline and her husband budget for irregular expenses and irregular income. And finally, about how they’re budgeting for their baby, who will be born by the time you hear this. Okay. So, Madeline, thank you so much for joining me today. Will you please introduce yourself to the audience a little bit further?

03:37 Madeline H: Thank you for having me. Yes. So my name is Madeline. I am a rising second year over at the University of Connecticut and the Human Development Family Sciences Department. And me and my husband are excited to be expecting our baby from Louisiana. I just started my PhD this past year, and then we got married in November and found out we were expecting in December. So lots of new changes that we’re really excited for and lots of things to consider when it comes to our financial budget.

Income Details

04:07 Emily: Yeah. What a year. What a blockbuster year for you. And it’s only going to get more exciting. All right, let’s jump into this. So let’s cover what are the incomes that you have in your household between you and your husband? And like, what are the pay frequency, the pace schedules for both of you?

04:23 Madeline H: Yes, so I’m on a graduate assistantship through my university is a nine month stipend type assistantship was like a W-2, so it’s not a fellowship. And then we get paid biweekly roughly. And then my husband works at a hospital where he also gets paid biweekly, but it falls on every other week in between my paycheck. So every single week we are receiving some sort of income just about. And then in the summer, during those 2 to 3 months that I’m not covered, we can receive income through our department sometimes, but not guaranteed. And a lot of students, myself included, find some supplemental income as well for that.

05:11 Emily: Wow. I don’t know if I’ve spoken with anyone before whose household has income coming in literally every week between two different jobs that pay go to that is actually really interesting. I’m so excited to get to your budget in a second. Would you like to share your income level approximately or specifically yours and or your husband’s.

05:29 Madeline H: So my school I have a master’s already and so they change how much you make based upon whether you have came in with a bachelor’s degree or a master’s degree or or a Ph.D. candidate, have defended your competence, taking your competency exam. And so I came in with the master’s and it’s getting bumped up to about 28,000. I think, for this upcoming year. Every hour we are unionized. My job is unionized. And so that means that they have negotiated a pay raise every year for us. And so it was 27 roughly this past year and now it’s moved up to 28. My husband’s job pays of roughly about the other 50%. We make about roughly the same per month, and so that makes it really easy for budgeting and stuff.

06:22 Emily: I can see that your income changed a little bit from your academic year income. It sounds like it was a little bit lower over the summer. But you also told me during our prep that your husband’s income is also irregular, even though he’s, you know, paid regularly like biweekly. So how what’s the nature of his irregular income?

06:38 Madeline H: So my husband works hourly and he is a he works at a hospital, so they have shifts and stuff, but his paycheck is by the, by schedule. It’s mostly regular, except every now and then he’ll get double booked or he’s able to pick up shifts or he, with everything with the travel and such, like my job covers for those kind of vacation funds. And it’s a lot easier for me to know like, okay, like if I have to miss a day or such like that covered fairly easily. But for my husband, if he misses any hours or if he has to leave early, those hours might get dropped and such. And so we have to kind of budget for those kind of factors as well.

Budgeting for Irregular Income and Expenses

07:22 Emily: Mm hmm. Yeah. So he experiences both. The upside of you work more, you get paid more. And also the downside of you don’t work, you don’t get paid. So, yeah. Okay, let’s dive into more about how you budget then with this frequent but very, very irregular and challenging kind of income. I’d like to talk both about how you budget for that irregular income and also for irregular expenses in addition to whatever financial goals you have. So however you want to tackle that, let’s get started.

07:50 Madeline H: Sure thing. So I track our spending using Excel spreadsheets. For me, that’s the easiest way. And what I’ve done when we before we even got married, I’ve kind of thought to myself, okay, like how much is it going to cost and how much is my expecting to make for myself and what kind of living situation would allow for us and for myself, even if I were just to live here by myself, Which was the plan the first few months before we got married was to make sure that the living situation I had that roughly that 50, 30, 20 budget that a lot of people kind of discuss about. And so when I did that, when he came up, we made a plan for, okay, you know, you find a job that makes roughly this much if you can try to like negotiate for pay. So this way it fits with our current living situation and this labor able to save. And so the way that I started budgeting was figuring out like, okay, this is how much the necessities cost our rent, our bills, our insurance. I just those are just solid numbers that we had to include. And then figuring out, okay, this is how much we already came in with. For a while he didn’t have a job, so we had to budget and figure out like, okay, what can we afford versus how much are we willing to take out of our savings? And then once he did get a job, I tried to budget to where we were maximizing our savings because we knew that we want to kind of replenish our savings after the wedding and such. And we kind of discussed, okay, like how much are we willing to spend on going out? I did a little bit of tracking, as you have always recommended, of like figuring out like, well, what are we already spending on groceries? What are we already spending on going out to eat and such and figuring out, okay, like, can we live on less?Can we can be budget a little bit more or figure out a way to make those expenditures last longer. So we got like a Costco membership, for example, so we can book by a little bit better to make it easier for ourselves for when we go get groceries instead.

09:55 Emily: So let’s talk more about the the budgeting that and especially with his income being irregular, how how does that work?

10:01 Madeline H: So to kind of account for that, what I do, I tried to make that not be such a stressful factor by having us use a credit card together and making sure that we are both having access to that credit card and to see like how much we’re spending on that. And we kind of talk regularly about like, okay, this is where we’re at in our spending, because it took a while for him to be able to see like what we’re spending. But, um, so even though we are getting paychecks every single week, that actually doesn’t factor into my budgeting so much because we are, we just pay everything on a credit card that we pay off at the end of the month. And but what’s nice about our budgeting practice is that because receiving income every week and we’re also tracking it with our credit cards, we’re able to see like, okay, has our credit is our credit card above what we are currently at in our bank, and then we’re able to kind of adjust. So I can see like, oh, he didn’t make the expected income that we were hoping for that we would have expected for like a full week, for example. And then we can adjust based upon that being like, okay, well maybe we’re just not going to go out to eat this week or we’re going to wait to buy this item that is not in pure necessity. And by that layer next month, for example.

11:17 Emily: Mm hmm. I see. So you’re kind of allowing the spending to accumulate on a credit card throughout the month and you can kind of look at those numbers and compare them to how much income you’re making throughout that same month and make adjustments, as you’re saying. And I assume also your husband might be able to volunteer for extra shifts like you might be able to increases income if he’s, you know, available and healthy and so forth.

11:39 Madeline H: Yes. So so in fact, he’s signing up for additional shifts. So this way we can kind of have a little bit of a buffer with the baby. And because of how parental leave is working for us.

11:50 Emily: Yeah, definitely. Okay. So that explains kind of how well that explains a little bit of the irregular come and the irregular expenses to a degree because you mentioned maybe deferring some spending that’s not strictly needed to happen right away. Is there any other detail you want to give us about how you’re budgeting for irregular expenses?

12:08 Madeline H: For the most part, that is kind of how we work for irregular expenses. Although every month I also make sure to put a budget itself, a number being like about $100 being like, okay, this is for irregular expenses that we’re not into, that we don’t have like a specific category before. And as well, if I know that there’s an upcoming expense, like I know if we have like a doctor’s appointment or a dental appointment, I put that into our budget and see like, okay, where can we adjust the numbers for other categories when we expect an irregular expense, such as like a water bill or like a doctor’s appointment like that. And so that also gets kind of put into the budget that way for this Labor avoiding creating a habit of dipping into our savings.

12:50 Emily: Okay, so it sounds like in addition to doing the tracking that we were just talking about and the adjusting on the fly, you’re also budgeting proactively. Okay, So the beginning of the month, you can see, okay, here are some things on the calendar or some special things that take some extra money. So you already have a plan for how you’re going to account for all of that, and then you just continue to tweak it throughout the month.

13:08 Madeline H: Yes. That’s exactly what we did.

Savings Goals

13:11 Emily: Yeah, that sounds great. Now, you’re also you mentioned a high degree of savings and so forth. Do you have any like specific savings goals? And let’s maybe leaving aside the maybe I don’t know, we’ll talk about the baby stuff in a moment, but were there any savings goals outside of baby related?

13:29 Madeline H: Yes. So before we found out that we were pregnant, we were planning on saving for my husband to potentially go back to college for a new house. And we wanted savings for being able to travel home since we’re from Louisiana. So making sure that we would be able to visit home at least once a year. Those savings are, for the most part, still existing, but the contributions to them are a lot different. And the new home slash college fund is kind of the same bucket at this point. So it’s more just a matter of like Craig those in addition. And then the third one was the emergency savings fund itself.

14:07 Emily: It might. I don’t know if, I may be projecting. It might feel like a setback to you that you had to put pause or at least reduce these other savings goals you have when you found out about the pregnancy, which obviously takes up a lot of money itself. And now they’ve had, you know, whatever, 15 plus years of doing this budgeting stuff like life is long and things come in cycles. And as long as you keep the habit of saving where it might go and how it fluctuates at different stages of life, that may change what you’re doing specifically for a short time, but you’ll be able to get back to it and like you’ll be able to accomplish those goals. It just might be, you know, next year instead of this year or two years from now, instead of this year.

14:50 Madeline H: Now, I appreciate that, because, yeah, sometimes it feels like that and that’s been part of this whole process of like adjusting what our goals are and trusting what our expectations are and then figuring out like, what are we comfortable in? Like how can we just create like better financial habits, like so and one thing that I wanted to add about the savings is that I have an automated account, like one of them is now automated, like automatically just draws like $10 out, which is not going to be missed. But it’s just nice knowing like, okay, something’s being saved if not even if I’m not always like thinking about her or such like that. So that helps.

15:30 Emily: You know, I think I mean, I think the automated savings is wonderful, but even just the step of having a bucket, like even though it’s different count or sub account within something, having a bucket available to just capture savings itself is a big step, even if you’re not consistently contributing to it. Because you know that if you, you know, ever got back to it or you had a windfall come your way or whatever, you have a place to put the money and like the plan is already like half there, you know.

15:56 Madeline H: That was something that, that was another step that I actually did do. I have multiple savings accounts, so this way I can visually see like, okay, this is what we have set aside for this instead of just being like, we have this big number in our emergency savings account and then thinking that’s only for emergencies, instead of being like, okay, this amount isn’t allocated for this type of expenditure and these amounts are okay to be spent for these other types of needs and stuff. So that helped a lot as well, like wrapping your head around all the numbers.

16:25 Emily: Yeah, and I love that strategy. I don’t use it as much now. But when I was at your stage with the budgeting, like I was using it so intensively and it was really, really helpful. When we were doing our prep call for this, I told you my philosophy of finances around babies, that the things that people maybe don’t notice so much are actually the things that are really, really expensive and that I’m always, like, curious about how people are handling them. So I’m going to ask you about four categories of expenses and how you are going to manage them either now or after the baby comes. Okay. So four categories. Category number one is health insurance. Whose health insurance is this baby going on? Is it going to cost you more? What’s going on with that?

Health Insurance

17:04 Madeline H: So the baby’s health insurance and my husband as well in fact, or his health insurance, they’re both online with my graduate assistantship because I found out that in order to add him to my assistance, so to add him to my my health insurance was only $100 more per month, which is more than what his job offers. But given my health insurance does not have a deductible, it has only a maximum out of pay and it has a very low co-pay. We were like this works really well for us in our current financial situation. And then to add the baby, we were very, very fortunate that there’s only like ten or $20, maybe $30 max out in addition to the current pay that we’re already making monthly for health insurance. So it’s not been the it’s not been a huge addition for having the baby added to and creating a family plan for our health insurance.

17:57 Emily: Phew. That’s great to hear, especially about there being like the low, you know, co-pays and the deductible and so forth. Because when you have a child, that child is going to go to the doctor a lot. So that’s great to hear. Now, I’m curious if your husband was not already on your plan, like let’s say he was on his workplace plan, would adding the baby to your plan be that ten, 20, 30 a month, or would it be the hundred? Is it like the second person or is that specifically that it’s a dependent?

18:25 Madeline H: I think that is specifically that the second person went from a $10 a month to a $110 a month to add a second person, a second dependent, as I put it, if I remember correctly.

18:37 Emily: PSA for you and anyone listening, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you have 30 days to get that baby onto the health insurance before you’re, you know, special life circumstance window expires. So I have had people who in that, you know, that fog of New Parenthood have forgotten to add that child to your policy. And it’s a huge headache. So please get your child added within the window your insurance company provides.

Commercial

19:02 Emily: Emily here for a brief interlude! These action items are for you if you recently switched or will soon switch onto non-W-2 fellowship income as a grad student, postdoc, or postbac and are not having income tax withheld from your stipend or salary. Action item #1: Fill out the Estimated Tax Worksheet on page 8 of IRS Form 1040-ES. This worksheet will estimate how much income tax you will owe in 2023 and tell you whether you are required to make manual tax payments on a quarterly basis. The next quarterly estimated tax due date is September 15, 2023. Action item #2: Whether you are required to make estimated tax payments or pay a lump sum at time tax, open a separate, named savings account for your future tax payments. Calculate the fraction of each paycheck that will ultimately go toward tax and set up an automated recurring transfer from your checking account to your tax savings account to prepare for that bill. This is what I call a system of self-withholding, and I suggest putting it in place starting with your very first fellowship paycheck so that you don’t get into a financial bind when the payment deadline arrives. If you need some help with the Estimated Tax Worksheet or want to ask me a question, please consider joining my workshop, Quarterly Estimated Tax for Fellowship Recipients. It explains every line of the worksheet and answers the common questions that PhD trainees have about estimated tax. The workshop includes 1.75 hours of video content, a spreadsheet, and invitations to at least one live Q&A call each quarter this tax year. If you want to purchase this workshop as an individual, go to PF for PhDs dot com slash Q E tax. Now back to our interview.

Funding Parental Leave

21:09 Emily: Okay, a second expense, your leave and or your husband’s leave. If he’s planning on taking one, how are you going to fund your life when you are on leave?

21:19 Madeline H: That’s a great question. So I’m very fortunate. As I mentioned before, my job is unionized and our union fought for paid parental leave for six weeks. If you have a vaginal birth and eight weeks of you have cesarean birth. And so that will be completely paid for.

21:36 Emily: That’s 100% of your pay or is a lower percentage?

21:39 Madeline H: Yes, It’s 100% of our pay.

21:41 Emily: Awesome.

21:43 Madeline H: And that will be covered for, and we do not lose any of our benefits. We do not lose our tuition waiver. We do not lose our health insurance. It’s 100%, 100% pay. And then that’s, well, relief from work responsibilities.

21:57 Emily: Awesome. And are you planning on going back to work after that six or eight week time period? Or are you taking more time?

22:04 Madeline H: I am planning on returning back because when if I even though I would qualify under Connecticut’s FMLA, which is separate from the federal optimally, it would not. It would not. First of all, I would not be paid. And then second of all, it would not guarantee my tuition waiver. So I would potentially have to pay for the rest of the semester for tuition in order to take up to another six weeks of leave. So we decided that that was a little bit eating into too much into our savings account for that.

22:38 Emily: Okay. I’m glad you’re being paid at 100%. I’m not glad that this is only six or eight weeks. That is a short time period. I mean, in the U.S., we already have nothing guaranteed and whatever. We know how bad the situation is.

22:49 Madeline H: yes, I’m fortunate about that. And then also my department has been extremely accommodating, extremely supportive. They I had mentioned to them what my situation was and I talked with them and they were able to actually get me practically 100% remote of ga-ship for this semester. So even though I’ll be technically working, I’ll be able to do this from the comfort of home and being able to watch over my baby still. So.

23:16 Emily: That is a good benefit. Okay. I’m so glad that you asked for that note to anyone else. Negotiation is always available to you. Okay. And then what about your husband’s leave?

23:25 Madeline H: And then my so my husband, he is a he is at a job that is not unionized. And so Connecticut has a policy in place called the Connecticut FMLA and then also the Connecticut paid leave. They are two separate entities, but they both require that you’ve been working at your job for at least three months, different than the 12 month requirement by the federal FMLA. And the FMLA protects his job so he won’t be fired while he’s taking leave for so long. But then and that goes up to 12 weeks and it can be split however we need to just bye week. So like he could take six weeks off, he could take ten weeks off and one week off. And in the future, for example, as long as it’s within one year of the baby being born. So the CT paid leave is a program that works separately from the FMLA, but very similarly in that a lot of the events that qualify you for FMLA qualify you for the CT paid leave, and that provides supplemental income for while he’s on leave. So at the beginning he will be paid any PTO that he has left and so that will be full time pay and everything. But then once he runs out of PTO, the city paid leave will kick in and he’ll be paid 95% of the current minimum wage, which is $15 an hour, and they’ll be paid 95% of that at 40 hours per week. And then he’ll also be paid the difference between his current income and the minimum wage, and they’ll be paid out 60% for, I believe, 40, 40 hours or however many hours he generally works. I think he works 36 hours actually regularly. So it will be paid out 60% of that on top of that 90% of minimum wage. And so 95% of minimum wage. So that will all be going toward for however long he’s on leave. And that was very big in our financial decisions of whether or not how long we’d be on leave and for who’s going to be on leave and all that.

25:28 Emily: I’m so impressed you rattled all that off, and it just shows you like the detail that really you do need to dive into to understand all the different benefits that are available to you, both through your employer and the state and the federal government and everywhere. So that’s that’s great that you investigated that also thoroughly. And how long do you is he planning on a specific length or is it going to be like more play by ear kind of thing?

25:54 Madeline H: We are planning for him to be offered 12 weeks because we don’t have family in the area and we’re still fairly new in the area. So this way ensures that we’ll have the support that we need or I will have the support that I need. And so but we are kind of talking about whether or not maybe it might be more beneficial for him to take off six weeks and save that for another time in the future, maybe around the holidays or such. But so we’re still playing around with that. But knowing that regardless, like will be covered financially, that is really nice to know. And then I’m still trying to figure out whether or not he will be receiving PTO hours while he’s gone or like how that will kick back in. And so that might also play a role into whether or not we decide to delay further on that leave time.

Child Care Expenses

26:47 Emily: So it sounds like the pay aspect of the leave is not as much of an issue for you too, because you’re going to get your full pay and he’s going to get, it sounds like, pretty close to his full pay, but it’s more the length and it’s when to take it and so forth. So that that will be tricky. All right. Let’s move on to the third large expense, which is child care. So what is the plan for child care when you’re when one or both of you is back at work?

27:12 Madeline H: Great question. So we found out that childcare is very competitive in general. People. My cousin had told me that the minute that you find out that you’re pregnant, you should start looking for childcare. So when we were looking for childcare, I was trying to figure out like what are the general rates? I called a couple areas who’s offering where they located. We found I talked with other parents who are in our program, some other graduate student parents, and they suggested where to go. We’re very lucky that my school actually offers an on campus daycare, but there are some other daycares in the nearby city that the schools are located in. And so I called around both. We ended up deciding on the childcare that’s associated with the campus, not only because of its convenient location being close to me and my own work, but then also because it honestly was one of the cheapest options. It offers a sliding scale based upon the parent’s incomes of any I. Things should happen, especially considering the irregularity of our pays. We might be able to accommodate for that in the future years. And they also offered a legacy aspect which was important to us to ensure we have childcare in the future, something that we had considered. We’re not only the daycare itself, but the daycare is offering of like, well, they were doing it every, every few days be different than full time childcare and like if they offered partial days versus like every other day. My husband though, his job is his schedule is regular but changes every week it’s regular and that every two weeks that repeats and that does not work well for daycare. So we had to pick a daycare that has availability for the child to be there every day. And then we also looked at home care options, but us not being as familiar with the area, we felt more comfortable with the daycare, but we did notice that home care options were significantly cheaper options compared to doing like a full time daycare. But that was so that was something that we also had to consider.

29:20 Emily: That’s awesome. That University of Connecticut offers that on campus option and that it was available to you because I know sometimes those are full, full, full. And that they do a sliding scale. That all sounds really, really good. Are you going to pick up with the child care in the spring semester? Like when is the enrollment going to start?

29:40 Madeline H: enrollment actually we had to sign up for enrollment as early as February of this year. So we found out we were pregnant December. And then immediately I was like, well, and like I said, I hopped on that on that daycare list. And we found out every February is when Connecticut at least changes their rate for daycare. So I had to wait until February to be able to even ask about rate. And then by April, we were we were given a tour and then after the tour they said, you have two days to decide if you want this daycare. And when you do, you have to pay down the first month and then it will be your child will be enrolled starting in August. But then you are paying every single month and you for the entire year. So even though our baby won’t be born until August and will be with us for the first three months, we are already paying for daycare and we’ve actually been paying for daycare since May. In addition to that, in addition past the security deposit.

30:40 Emily: Whoa, I have never heard of that arrangement because you’re basically just paying to hold the spot. Yikes. And if the full rate to hold the spot, poof.

30:52 Madeline H: Yes, we have to pay the full rate and everything. Yeah, I still think it’s like that because it’s like I know that that means that the that the workers are guaranteed pay. But at the same time it’s like I’m paying first of all, my baby’s not even born.

31:05 Emily: Yeah, I mean, at least can you sublet it? Can you sublet the spot?

31:10 Madeline H: I wish. I though about that, we had asked maybe in the, if we do could it in the spring, if we could just sign up and enroll in the spring, but spots wouldn’t be guaranteed. And the difference in pay is so much that it’s about, it was looking around $1,400 roughly, $1,200 to $1,400 depending upon which we had chosen at the time per month versus $1,700 to a part time or the full time for another daycare and the difference in price per month even though its, we’re paying for time when we’re not there, if we need, the baby would need to be in daycare as early as November potentially. And so the savings technically that we’re making over the long term and being guaranteed having this lower cost daycare in the future own out over picking one that we would use for less time at a much higher rate.

32:03 Emily: Yeah. I mean, I’m sure you were in your spreadsheet doing those calculations and the break even point and everything, but, I mean, you’re going to be in grad school for several more years, so you’re going to need this child care for quite a while. So, yeah, it does make sense. I can see how it would work out that it makes more sense to pay a little bit more upfront to guarantee the lower rate in the long term. Well, that was a tough decision, though, I’m sure, to to pay for a service that you’re not actually quite using yet, But as you said, I mean, the childcare situation is so difficult right now all across the country.

32:33 Emily: And you sometimes you got to just take what you can get, even if it’s a little bit less than ideal in this setup. But okay, Thank you so much for explaining that. Is there anything more that you want to talk about with respect to the childcare costs?

32:45 Madeline H: Yes, actually. So I mentioned kind of the numbers is like 1200, 1400 versus practically its own separate rent to kind of make this fit our budget instead of being like, okay, we’re going to like continue our high savings until we like, can’t I decide that it might be more it might be a better idea for us to reduce the overall monthly payments by spreading it out a little bit more? So we started those payments, like I said, back in May, rather than waiting until August to make the first payment. So this way those payments are definitely fitting within our budget and our monthly income rather than trying to figure out, well, okay, we’ve got to save this much and we’ve got to save as much as we can, and then we’ll take some of those savings later in the future to pay for the excess lays like it got very complicated Those the simpler to be like, okay, let’s make sure that this fits in our current income the best that we can. So that’s kind of how we do savings but ensure that we have the money each month to pay off the daycare.

Budgeting for Baby “Stuff”

33:49 Emily: So you’re kind of you advanced your budget, your budget didn’t need to be doing that just yet, but you decided I want to make sure this is all balancing and all working out. And our fourth and final category is what I call the stuff, which is what people mostly like to talk about when you’re talking about preparing financially for a baby, which is the nursery and the furniture and the, I don’t know, the clothes, the formula, the the gadgets, all these things. So how has the stuff made an impact on your budget?

34:18 Madeline H: Thankfully, it’s been not as big of an impact as as I had feared that it would be, because I found out a lot of doing a lot of research what stuff is necessary to buy immediately, first hand or like buy brand new versus what can be afforded through second hand or be afforded through gifts and registries and what’s common. So we decided that we’re going to wait for to find out the gender of our baby. And that actually plays has played a role in our financial decision somewhat in that when we had a baby and a baby shower, it was really easy for us to tell people like, these are the practical gifts we have, and because people don’t know what gender we’re having, they don’t spend as much money on like trying to get us gendered items that we don’t really need, like baby girl clothes, a baby boy specific clothes. And so they focused a lot more on getting us things like diapers and burp cloth and like little swaddle and such. So that was a that was really useful. And then because we’re from Louisiana, we had a travel, we did travel back to Louisiana for our fam for our baby shower. And we specifically requested primarily for gift cards or money. And so that was really useful for us and being able to determine like, okay, this is how much money we have now that became kind of the budget for the baby. And then and then shopping based upon that, we were very fortunate to have a lot of family support as well. Like my parents pitched in some money. My in-laws have pitched in of helping us buy things that we need for the house. But surprisingly, there’s not very many things you have to actually buy, like brand new, like you want to buy the baby crib brand new. And so that was on our registry. We told people like, this is really important for us to be able to afford because this will be the baby’s bed. But also, too, I’ve joined a lot of Facebook groups that are like the Buy Nothing project or like free items in this area. And that helped tremendously because people surprisingly give out a lot of baby stuff because baby stuff doesn’t last very long in the center. Babies outgrow it very quickly before. It’s not like before. They’re like kind of growth. And so you’re able to like get a lot of toys that way or you’re able to get like a we got a changing table, we got a bassinet, we got a rocking chair. In fact, all of those like free three things. So that’s been super useful. I have also we have have we are part of a free home visitation program that offered free dual services as well as a free diaper bank. That’s part of the Connecticut Diaper Bank as well. So we have access to all of that and that’s been very helpful in like making sure that we can afford everything. So that’s been primarily like how we’ve been managing, affording all the baby stuff, items and such. Also kind of recognizing like what is needed has helped. Like for example, you don’t have to have a traditional crib. You can have like a pack and play, which is significantly much cheaper than having a crib and also much smaller. And so choosing things like that has also been able to help us be able to afford everything that we needed. And then the timing for, for when we had our baby happen to coincide with buybuy babies big clearance and closure. And so we were able to use that to our benefit of being able to buy some really important things like a stroller and the baby car seat that way. And figuring out things like, for example, the stroller has a car seat, come with it. That was a decision that we made purposefully so obviously we would have a car seat guaranteed and long lasting is during the summer, but having a summer baby worked out a little bit for us as well as that Amazon has Amazon Prime Day during the summer, which I found out about, and so we took advantage of the big sales going on then to when we were purchasing all of our baby items that we finally needed after the showers.

38:25 Emily: Wow. Thorough. Again, I love it. I’m so you’re such a great interviewee on this topic. This is wonderful. And I yeah, I just want to echo like a lot of you said, you probably did not use this as a strategy, but I like it as a tip for other people of like not revealing the gender so you can steer people towards some more like practical baby items that you really need instead of getting caught up in all the cute clothes and all that stuff and that long distance baby shower. I had a long distance baby shower as well, but I was not as intentional about use, about saying like, okay, cash is really something we can take back with us quite easily. Let’s save up for these bigger items. I love that strategy as well. And yeah, it’s kind of surprising. Like babies do need certain items for sure, like the car seat, you know, the you mentioned like a safe place to sleep. But beyond those like few big things, it’s really parental choice. Beyond that, whether you’re going to get things new or secondhand, how much you want to spend, whether you want to have them or not. I mean, I have love them, but I have some very bougie friends who have like the SNU, like, you know, they are able to and willing to spend a lot on their their baby’s first months of life. And their comfort is parents and their baby’s comfort. And it’s just it’s not necessary for everyone. So there’s a lot of agency in that.

Housing and Car Decisions

39:37 Emily: And you know what? Now that we’re talking about this, I have a fifth category of expenses, which is your housing and your car. I’m assuming you didn’t change either one of those, but a lot of people do when they’re expecting a baby. So can you just talk about the decisions around that?

39:52 Madeline H: Yeah. I’m actually glad that you mentioned this because we so we live in a one bedroom, one bath apartment and we had planned to stay in here for the duration of my PhD for the most part. And then like I said, maybe saving for a for like buying a home, but with the baby and everything, we were wondering like, where’s this baby going to go? We luckily have a walk in closet. And we thought to ourselves, Well, maybe the baby can go in there. We’ve decided against that. We actually just rearranged everything in our home to make space for the baby. And like I said, some of the some the living arrangement that we have has also contributed toward some of the decisions that we made, like such as having a traditional nursery space. So we thought about whether or not we might move to a two bedroom, two bath or two bedroom at least apartment. Now, something that was heavily kind of talked about, it’s still something over the bay. But right now this we decided in the end to keep because financially it just makes the most sense. We know that we can afford easily what like our living and home expenses are where we’re at and then and we don’t need to increase that the space fit. We can’t hold our parents as guests, which is a little bit tricky, but that’s been the biggest part. We kind of justify being like, You’re not staying here that long when you come up here. So it’s more important that we have financial security than being able to host our families for like two weeks, every couple of months kind of thing. As far as cars, we decide to keep our cars. We’ve joked about getting a new car for my husband just because we liked a car that we had been in in our honeymoon. But currently both of our cars are, we feel are safe enough. And I primarily take my car around for everywhere anyways. And so the idea is just that we have the baby primarily in my car because it’s going with me to the park where the daycare is. And then if we ever need to, like he has a he has a different car seat in his that a convertible since we have an infant only car seat that came with our stroller. So that’s kind of how we’ve navigated it for us.

42:08 Emily: Yeah, well, I’m glad that we covered that because like I said, a lot of people do choose to get a bigger place or get a bigger or a different car. And I think it’s a little premature just for an infant. Infants are in fact, in fact, quite small. They come with a lot of stuff that they themselves are not very big. And so I think it makes sense because, yeah, you may need to get a two bedroom place, but it doesn’t have to have have to happen this first year, you know, maybe for the subsequent year and the one after that as baby needs, you know, some more space and you two need to get some more space for yourselves, too.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

42:39 Emily: Well, Madeleine, this has been such a wonderful and detailed interview. I think it’ll be super useful to anyone, especially graduate students, who are, you know, preparing for parenthood as well, or just having that irregular income that we talked about earlier. So as we wrap up, would you please share with us your best financial advice for another early career, a Ph.D.?

42:59 Madeline H: Yes. My best advice that I have for someone who is an early career PhD would be to talk with other students who are in a similar situation as you. That helped tremendously for me in figuring out like, what do we truly need? Where can we outsource some of the other options? Understanding, especially as a new parent, understanding how does paid leave work for our department? How does paid leave work for the for the government or for the state? I joined other like communities that where people were familiar with what’s going on in general. My husband talked to his colleagues about a lot of these processes. So just talking with other people who are in a similar situation was extremely helpful and I think that was kind of general advice, but I think that that was just so beneficial and useful for us. And then I guess something that would be more specific towards a Ph.D. and this may be more useful to someone who is considering PhD programs is to really look and consider that quality of life package portion of the Ph.D. like research interest that is super important. But having a livable arrangement is also extremely important for peace of mind, for for us for being able to navigate like changes in life like these and stuff. So I’ve made sure that I’ve read over like all of our health care options, for example, because I knew I was going to be married and I knew that for us, pregnancy was a very real option for us during my Ph.D. So, I want to see like, what would that look like? What what coverage do they have and what kind of protections do they have? So looking into all of that before choosing whether or not to accept a program was really important for me.

44:45 Emily: Yeah. And like, look how how quickly that information came into play for you in this first year. And even just going back that decision of like, can I afford this apartment on just my income alone? And how much like that one decision cascaded through this year and is helping you to afford all these other life changes that are going on. So it’s wonderful. Again, congratulations. Thank you so much for volunteering to come on the podcast. And I’m really excited for all of this wonderful stuff that’s going to happen for you.

45:15 Madeline H: Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure. I’m really happy to have been able to have the opportunity to be here with you and and to share a little bit about what’s going on in my life.

Outtro

45:28 Emily: Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by Dr. Lourdes Bobbio and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

Financial Advice from PhD Career Development and Financial Wellness Professionals

August 28, 2023 by Jill Hoffman 2 Comments

In this episode, Emily shares the microinterviews she recorded at two higher education conferences this past summer. The conference attendees, virtually all of whom work at universities and most of whom have PhDs themselves, responded to this prompt: “What piece of financial advice are you glad you followed or do you wish you had followed as a grad student or postdoc?” Listen through the episode for excellent financial strategies that have stood the test of time for the interviewees.

Links mentioned in the Episode

Financial Advice from PhD Career Development and Financial Wellness Professionals

Teaser

00:00 Beth H: So thinking back to grad school, the things I’m glad that I did is is really just stick to the fundamentals of looking at what my income was and make sure I was budgeting it, saving. I was investing in my Roth IRA and now 20 years later, has made all the difference. Even the $50 a month I found back then is setting me up for financial success now.

Introduction

00:30 Emily: Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others.

01:01 Emily: This is Season 15, Episode 6, and today I’m sharing the microinterviews I recorded at two higher education conferences this past summer. The conference attendees, virtually all of whom work at universities and most of whom have PhDs themselves, responded to this prompt: “What piece of financial advice are you glad you followed or do you wish you had followed as a grad student or postdoc?” Listen through the episode for excellent financial strategies that have stood the test of time for these interviewees.

01:36 Emily: The two conferences I attended were the Graduate Career Consortium Annual Meeting or GCC and the Higher Education Financial Wellness Alliance Summit or HEFWA Summit. GCC is primarily attended by university staff members working with PhD students and postdocs in career and professional development. The HEFWA Summit is attended by university staff members working in financial wellness and financial aid across undergraduate and graduate populations. These two conferences were excellent networking opportunities for me on top of the built-in professional development. However, there are plenty of universities who were not represented at these conferences. Would you please consider recommending my financial education seminars and workshops at your university? My most popularly requested events for the upcoming academic year are How to Survive and Thrive Financially in Graduate School or Your Postdoc, How to Not Hate Your Fellowship During Tax Season, and Up-Level Your Cash Flow as a Graduate Student or Postdoc. Please direct an appropriate potential host within your graduate school, postdoc office, grad student association, etc. to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ where they can learn more. Thank you in advance!

03:00 Emily: You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s15e6/. Without further ado, here are the microinterviews recorded at GCC and the HEFWA Summit.

What piece of financial advice are you glad you followed or do you wish you had followed as a grad student or postdoc?

Tax Implications: Kaylee Steen, University of Michigan Medical School

03:19 Kaylee S: My name is Kaylee Steen. I work at the University of Michigan Medical School. The piece of advice that I would have financial advice for postdocs would be that if you are on a training grant, you need to be aware of the tax implications and the fact that they they’re not going to withhold your your paycheck for tax purposes. And so that will change or make your W-2 non-existent. And that can be really complicated. So make sure that you talk with your training grant administrator about the implications for taxes and any other kind of financial implications.

Value as a Student: Stevie Eberle, Stanford University School of Medicine

03:57 Stevie E: Stevie Eberle, executive director and assistant dean of BioSci Careers at Stanford University School of Medicine. During graduate school and postdoc training, I really wish I had understood my value that as a student I actually had value and I had the right to say no or to ask for more. That being said, as soon as I learned my value, I, I ran with it. And I have taken every opportunity to actually ask for more or to reject offers that don’t offer either enough or anything to. Examples were recently with an event that I was planning where it was a DEI related event and they were going they wanted me to do this for free. It was a 300 person event and I said no until they offered me something and I ended up getting a very nice package out of it. Another example was when I was I wanted a promotion and everybody around me had this and I had had the same title except for me. And everybody was making a certain amount of money except for me. And I had all the data and they were not listening to me and they told me, You love it here. Let’s face it, you’re not leaving. And I said, Oh, that is not true. I love it here if I’m being paid equitably. So I found something else. And then they were surprised. And then I miraculously got a promotion and more money. So what I was saying is I wish I’d known, but as soon as I knew I ran with it.

Retirement Savings: Alicia Roy, Gladstone Institutes

05:39 Alicia R: My name is Alicia Roy. I work at the Gladstone Institute in San Francisco and I received a piece of advice that came from a cohort member’s parent telling them to open a Roth IRA immediately, which I had also heard from my parent. But hearing it from multiple places really helps. And the two of us did it together. We sat down with our laptops next to each other and we’re like, How? How does this work? Where do we go? And I think that really helped me actually open that account and actually make that happen for me. And I’m really glad that I did that along, for now. Now is actually a pretty long time ago. At the time I was like, Is it already too late? And I now have colleagues. I’m in my mid thirties and I have colleagues who still haven’t opened one and I’ve had one for over five years now and that already makes me feel a lot better about the future.

Financial Habits: Melissa Bostrom, Duke University

06:32 Melissa B: My name is Melissa Bostrom, and I’m the assistant dean for graduate student professional development at Duke University. What piece of financial advice am I glad I followed during graduate school? Well, I really kept myself to a budget and really watched my expenses and made sure that I saved money for surprise expenses, emergency expenses like car repairs and also conference presentation opportunities. And I feel like those and a little bit of buffer in my budget really helped me take advantage of opportunities when they arose. And some of them are very positive and others car repairs not so positive.

Housing: Yasmine Farley, UC San Diego

07:10 Yasmine F: So hello, my name is Yasmine Farley. I am a senior associate director at UC San Diego. And the piece of financial advice that I guess I’m glad I followed or wish I would have followed while I was in grad school. When it comes to I’m glad I followed was being flexible in my housing arrangements and making sure that I was getting the cheapest option. I didn’t really know what I was getting myself into when I first moved for my Ph.D. program. And so then being willing to chat around with colleagues, classmates and move in with one and then looking for others each year really helped to cut costs for me. And what I wish I had followed during grad school is to not take out as many loans. I had a full ride. However, I took out loans so that I could live and pay for rent and food and gas. But I wish I would have taken out the bare minimum so that I wouldn’t be saddled with all the debt that I have now.

Socializing: Anonymous #1

08:18 Anonymous #1: One piece of financial advice for graduate school and actually for life, but that I developed with my spouse when he was doing his Ph.D. Was that be very thoughtful about who you are socializing with and what kind of approaches to finances they have, what kind of class background do they have, and genuinely try to find people who are spending less money than you, you know, for their socializing, for their life and hang out with them and get to be friends with them, use them as models for how to budget and save money and most of all, not spend money. So stay away. Stay away from the free spenders or the or the loose spenders and stick with the people who spend very little to not at all, especially around socializing.

Retirement Savings: Maggie Nettesheim Hoffmann, Humanities without Walls Consortium

09:20 Maggie NH: Hi, Emily. My name is Maggie Nettesheim Hoffmann. I’m the associate director of Career diversity for the Humanities Without Walls Consortium. Which is a grant for a Mellon funded, grant funded project at space at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. But I am located at Marquette University in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I think what I wish I had done while I was a grad student was to continue to think about my investments after leaving a career that I left, that I had spent about six years in before starting graduate school. So as I shared with you earlier, I used to work in wealth management for Financial Advisor based at what was then an affiliate of MetLife and no longer exists. And I worked in that role during the Great Recession from about how I was in that role from about 2005 to 2011 when I started graduate school. And right like I was completely in that world thinking about investments, watching people have to make really challenging decisions just to save their homes. Right. Seeing people pull out money from their 401k plans before they hit hit the age that you’re supposed to raise when you can start drawing contributions from your 401K. And they did that in order to continue to make their mortgage payments. Right? So I was I was there and watched people go through those decisions to save themselves and their families, or at least to protect themselves and their families after in some cases losing their jobs for up to two years, which was not an uncommon phenomenon during the recession. But then I started grad school and right like every little bit of money that I made through my stipend and my assistantship I had to use to meet my material needs, as opposed to continuing to think about how do I put a little bit of that into savings or how do I put a little bit of that into my existing 401K or what I now have A 403b plan since I work in higher ed. So I wish I had continued to do that because now I’m kind of faced with all three. I’ve got about 25 years before retirement and I don’t know that my investment savings are going to be where I need them to be when I retire in my mid to late sixties. Right? And so that’s I think the advice I would give to students or even faculty who might be listening to your podcasts. You have to be thinking about what, how much income are you going to need to draw from your retirement accounts when you get to 65, especially for our generations who might see cutbacks in things like Medicare or Social Security, how much money are you going to need to live when you’re retired and you might not? Right. So I think that’s that’s what I wish I had done.

Retirement Savings: Delaney Dann, Scripps Research Institute

11:58 Delaney D: Hi, my name is Dr. Delaney Dann, I work at the Scripps Research Institute. My piece of financial advice is as much as possible. Maxed out your Roth IRA during grad school and your postdoc.

Retirement Savings: Eric Vaughn, University of Rochester

12:13 Eric V: Hi, this is Eric Vaughn from the University of Rochester. My piece of financial advice would be start investing early so you can retire earlier.

Financial Habits: Penny Baga, Vanderbilt University

12:25 Penny B: Hi there. My name is Penny Baga from Vanderbilt University, and I encourage everybody to spend less than what they make.

Funding/Income: Elizabeth Harrington Lambert, Vanderbilt University

12:34 Elizabeth HL: So I’m Elizabeth Harrington Lambert from Vanderbilt University. And I think the absolute best piece of advice that I can give you is apply for funding before you need it. And don’t apply for 20 awards, but apply for three or four. Give yourself a plan B, a plan C and a plan D.

Funding/Income: Jessy Ayestas, University of Kansas

12:53 Jessy Ayestas: So, hello, I’m Jessy Ayestas. I am awards and outreach coordinator at the University of Kansas and also Fulbright scholar. So my piece of advice for any anybody thinking of attending grad school would be to consider applying for fellowships for scholarships, for grants. That will definitely facilitate at least the first years of your graduate education. And if the support that you receive is for a timeframe that is smaller than the time that you will be in grad school, then definitely try and think about the options that you will have and what opportunities may be available at your institution to continue being funded until you complete your program.

Financial Habits: Lindsey Cauthen, Baylor College of Medicine

13:35 Lindsey C: Lindsey Cauthen. Baylor College of Medicine. And I’m the head of career development. So I think the piece of financial advice that I’m glad I followed was really thinking about exactly how you spend your money each month and being very, very intentional about the way that you spend it and accountable. Right. So when I was in grad school, I had my own place and I was able to go on vacation and I was able to manage my money well, and that was because honestly, I had parents that taught me how to do so. So I had the proverbial envelope system and everything had a place. I think what I also did was I bought life insurance back in that time. That was really, really good life insurance. And I’m so glad I did that. And I did a little bit of investing and I didn’t have any debt coming out of undergrad. So that made a huge difference. And I didn’t come out of grad school with any debt either. So that’s made a big difference at this point.

Funding/Income: Colleen Gleeson, University of Texas at Austin

14:41 Colleen G: I’m Colleen Gleeson. I am the assistant director for advanced Degree Employer Engagement at the University of Texas at Austin So when I did my master’s program, I didn’t really get any funding, and I just thought that was the end of that. But now, having worked with worked with master students on the other side, I’ve seen how current master students have asked, researched and just pushed to actually to get more funding and to advocate for themselves and to identify additional funding resources. So I wish that someone had told me to be more persistent because there is there are funds out there. You just have to you just have to put the time and the research into it.

Funding/Income: Derek Attig, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

15:22 Derek A: I’m Derek Attig I work in the Graduate college at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. And as a graduate student, I’m really glad that I saw that opportunity is to get income. Even small amounts of income from a variety of places, because it gave me a lot of skills as also as well as just consistent, reliable money coming in.

Retirement Savings: Peter Myers, Washington University in Saint Louis

15:47 Peter M: My name is Peter Myers. I’m at Washington University in Saint Louis. The piece of advice that I’m glad I took as a postdoc is to put everything I can into a Roth IRA.

Employment: Kelly Graham, New York University

16:01 Kelly G: Hi, my name is Kelly Graham and I am from New York University. One of the best pieces of financial advice that I ever got and that I followed was that to go work at the university that you want to get your degree from because then you can go for free. Most universities offer tuition remission, so identify the university I wanted to go to. I got a full time job. I went to school for free and I built my resume at the same time.

Funding/Income: Erin Brown, UCLA

16:29 Erin B: Hi. So I’m Erin Brown. I am the associate director of Graduate Career Services at UCLA. And I guess the piece of financial advice that I wish that I had followed when I went to graduate school is I should have done my research and I should have applied for every extramural grant or fellowship that I could have found. I think it would have made my life so much easier after graduate school. I think that what I did was I used my savings to finance graduate school, and that money would have been really helpful when I left graduate school because I feel like I ate up all of the savings that I had while I was in grad school.

Funding/Income: Baron Haber, UC Santa Barbara

17:11 Baron H: my name is Baron Haber I’m the assistant director of Professional Development for Graduate Division at University of California, Santa Barbara. So one piece of financial advice that I wish I would have followed during graduate school better is I wish I would have had a calendar that was alerting me to deadlines for fellowships and other extramural funding opportunities. Like I always found out about them like two days before the deadline and then, like, talk myself out of trying to throw together an application. So I think I could have taken more advantage of applying for those opportunities if I had been more organized and kind of like known to be anticipating these things. And also that if I would have just had like standard statements prepared for those sorts of things a little bit earlier on in my career by the time I figured out I should be doing those things, I was like beyond the university requirements for that. So

Funding/Income: Shawn Warner, UC Santa Barbara

18:06 Shawn W: My name is Shawn Warner. I’m the director of Professional development for the Graduate Division at UC Santa Barbara. And one piece of advice I’m very glad I followed was when I was considering applying to grad school, I talked with someone who was about to finish their grad program, and they said, Do not do a study program unless you are paid to do so. And so I was unfortunately applying to grad school in 2009 during the recession, and I applied lots of places and I only got a financial funding offer from one. Thankfully, that was my number one pick and that’s where I went and I’m very glad I followed that piece of advice.

Financial Habits: Katy Peplin, Thrive PhD

18:50 Katy P: Hi, I’m Katy Peplin from Thrive PHD. You can find me at thrive dash PhD dot com. I work with graduate students all around the world on being a scholar and a human and the piece of financial advice that I am so glad that I followed during grad school was. Pay attention to your finances. I know so many people got sort of caught unawares by tax bills that they didn’t have, like living expenses that they weren’t prepared to handle. And I was really grateful that I kept an eye on. My budget is activating and nerve wracking as that could be sometimes when I was low on summer funding and always took extra jobs to make sure that I felt as secure as I could because I knew I wouldn’t be able to study if I was panicked about where I was going to eat next week

Financial Habits: Roshni, Johns Hopkins University

19:36 Roshni: Roshni from Johns Hopkins University. And I’m answering the question what piece of financial advice did I wish I had followed during grad school or post-doc? And that would be to not be afraid about talking about money. Culturally, it’s not the norm from where I grew up. And so if I knew to get over some of the intimidation around money, I may have made more empowered and more informed decisions.

Commercial

20:04 Emily: These action items are for you if you recently switched or will soon switch onto non-W-2 fellowship income as a grad student, postdoc, or postbac and are not having income tax withheld from your stipend or salary. Action item #1: Fill out the Estimated Tax Worksheet on page 8 of IRS Form 1040-ES. This worksheet will estimate how much income tax you will owe in 2023 and tell you whether you are required to make manual tax payments on a quarterly basis. The next quarterly estimated tax due date is September 15, 2023. Action item #2: Whether you are required to make estimated tax payments or pay a lump sum at time tax, open a separate, named savings account for your future tax payments. Calculate the fraction of each paycheck that will ultimately go toward tax and set up an automated recurring transfer from your checking account to your tax savings account to prepare for that bill. This is what I call a system of self-withholding, and I suggest putting it in place starting with your very first fellowship paycheck so that you don’t get into a financial bind when the payment deadline arrives. If you need some help with the Estimated Tax Worksheet or want to ask me a question, please consider joining my workshop, Quarterly Estimated Tax for Fellowship Recipients. It explains every line of the worksheet and answers the common questions that PhD trainees have about estimated tax. The workshop includes 1.75 hours of video content, a spreadsheet, and invitations to at least one live Q&A call each quarter this tax year. If you want to purchase this workshop as an individual, go to PF for PhDs dot com slash Q E tax. Now back to our interview.

Retirement Savings: Sonali Majumdar, Princeton University

22:11 Sonali M: Hi, everyone. I am Sonali Majumdar at the Graduate Career Consortium Annual meeting. I’m Assistant Dean for Professional Development at Princeton University. And I just wanted to say in terms of, like, what I wish I had done as a graduate student and postdoc in terms of financial decisions, I wish I had created a Roth IRA and started my investment portfolio early. That’s the best way to. It. Also incentivizes and motivates you to save and invest, and I wish I had done that sooner. So that’s my little advice.

Financial Literacy: Diane Safer, Albert Einstein College of Medicine

22:48 Diane S: So, hi, I’m Diane Safer, the director of career professional development for graduate students and postdocs at Albert Einstein College of Medicine. And I think the idea of just welcoming new post-docs and graduate students to the idea of financial literacy right from the start so that they understand, considering especially that postdocs are international and don’t know about saving for retirement and how to live on a paycheck, that’s not a lot in New York

Housing: Kathryn Sawyer Vidrine, University of Notre Dame

23:16 Kathryn SV: I’m Kathryn Sawyer Vidrine from Notre Dame, and I wish that when I was starting graduate school in South Bend that I had just gone and bought a house instead of dithering about it because I wasn’t sure if I was going to stick around.

Housing: Tom Meyers, University of Notre Dame

23:32 Tom M: So my name is Tom Meyers. I’m also from the University of Notre Dame. And to Kathryn’s point, one thing I do with graduate students now is when I get incoming graduate students, I tell them, you can rent an apartment that’s a studio for 1100 dollars a month across campus, or you can drive five miles and pay a mortgage of 858.77 every month.

Retirement Savings: Karin Lawton-Dunn, Iowa State University

23:51 Karin L-D: Hi, I am Karin Lawton-Dunn at Iowa State University. And this question is, what piece of financial advice do are you glad to follow during your graduate program? And that was a long time ago for me. But I did have a I did work three years professionally before. And my colleague, we came back to grad school and she cashed out her 401K and I left mine in and I’m getting closer and closer to retirement and I’m very thankful I left that in. So I do not cash out 401Ks.

Retirement Savings: Megan Brock

24:22 Megan B: Okay, so I’m Dr. Megan Brock, and I think that I wish I would have I would to really look into the retirement plans that people offer you, because as a new grad moving into the field. I’m in the state of Georgia, you pick a program and you’re in it. There’s no switching up. The only way that you leave is if you leave the system. So where everybody else has something that they can if they want to purchase a home, they could pull out there for a1k or whatever type of retirement plan. Well, I’m a teacher retirement system and then I’m, you know, my pension, so to speak, is invested for ten years. All my friends can go out, purchase a home and have that saved up because that’s like kind of and of course, it’s for retirement. But, you know, a house is an investment, right? I can’t do that. I didn’t think about it. I was like, Oh, it’s easy to click the button and now you’re in. And now there’s no way that I can kind of help myself. The first generation, everything first, you know, the first person in my family to be able to do this is like, I can’t I can’t leverage that kind of like professional benefit of having retirement savings accounts. I didn’t select that option. So, yeah, I would say like, you know, just ask people about their options. The pros and cons, pause, don’t feel rushed. Because it will seem like you have to fill your paperwork out by a certain deadline, but you can always ask for those types of extensions. You can always ask to meet with, like whoever the H.R. officer is. You can always ask for that, you know, more time to get it sort of position for whatever school system that you’re going to be with. And so that’s my biggest like, dang, I wish I would have known that other that other than like living within my means. But like, the biggest thing is like, this is a marathon, not a sprint. And it we have to be prepared to be the people who can honestly retire at 50 and 60, like enjoy the rest of our life if we plan accordingly and not just like pick something that’s the easiest option. So that’s my piece of advice.

Retirement Savings: Christine Krieger, National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases

26:13 Christine K: Hi, I’m Christine Krieger. I’m with the training office, with NIDDK and my question is, what piece of financial advice are you glad you followed or do you wish you had followed during graduate school or as opposed to. So the advice I wish I had followed was that you are always welcome to follow your dreams. Just open a Roth. From the very beginning.

Funding/Income: Katie Homar

26:40 Katie H: So I’m Katie Homar, and my advice is take advantage of small travel grants from student organizations and campus offices to travel to conferences and grow your professional network.

Financial Habits: Mabel Perez-Oquendo, MD Anderson

26:52 Mabel P-K: Hi. My name is Mabel Perez-Oquendo. I am a current admin public fellow at MD Anderson. So one piece of advice that I wish I knew when I was doing my graduate school is to have saving accounts. And this is because, like, unexpected things happens. And also we want to have some like personal work life balance and we want to like travel and we want to take vacations. But if we don’t have that saving account, how we can accomplish that goal. So I wish that someone told me, Hey, you shall save part of your salary to go out and have fun and travel when you feel overwhelmed. So that is my piece of advice.

Negotiation: Hecmarie Meléndez-Fernández, West Virginia University

27:35 Hecmarie M-F: Hi, my name is Hecmarie Meléndez-Fernández, and I’m a recent Ph.D. grad at West Virginia University. And the one piece of financial advice I wish I had followed was to negotiate your benefits package for your job. There’s always room for negotiation. So.

Housing: Amanda Figuera, University of Washington Tacoma

27:55 Amanda F: My name is Amanda Figuera. I’m the senior director of Student Transitions and Success at the University of Washington Tacoma. And during graduate school we got creative with housing arrangements, and so I shared a one bedroom condo with a roommate who was doing lab work. And so we had like a hoteling bedroom almost in the living room. And that was one way that we were able to afford the cost of living in Seattle.

Employment: Mallorie Smith, Mississippi State University

28:19 Mallorie S: My name is Mallorie Smith. I’m the financial wellness program coordinator at Mississippi State University. And one piece of financial advice that I’m glad I followed as a grad student was that I sought out employment with my school that I wanted to attend first. And because of that, I got free classes two free classes this semester, and I was able to get my MBA that way. And now I’m about to get my Ph.D. in the same way for free. So all I’m paying for is textbooks, and I know where to find that cheap.

Moving: Helen Colby, Indiana University

28:49 Helen C: Hey, I am Helen Colby. I’m an assistant professor of marketing at Indiana University School of Business, and I am the chair of the Heck for Research Committee. And the piece of financial advice that I didn’t get in grad school that I wish I had gotten was to plan for that post-graduation move because I was in grad school in New Jersey and I got a postdoc in Los Angeles. And I realized about three months before I actually started the job that I was going to have to pay to move all my stuff across the country and put a down payment and pay first month’s rent and live for a month because I got paid monthly as a postdoc. But I didn’t get my first paycheck until I had been working for a month. And I was already a little strapped because I was in grad school and my husband’s in law school, I wouldn’t have any money. And then to move, that was very complicated. So we worked it out by being broke and side hustles and the one credit card we had that had a $1,000 limit on it. But if I had thought about having to move as opposed to just this is great, I’m going to have a better job that pays more. Not a lot more, but more. I would have planned for that better and at the very least spread my side hustling across more.

Financial Habits: Matt Hertenstein, DePaul University

30:04 Matt H: Hi, my name is Matt Hertenstein, a college professor at DePaul University, received my Ph.D. at U.C. Berkeley in 2002 the piece of advice that I wish I had followed in graduate school would be. Even then, I had a little bit to save, and I wish I had done a little bit better job at putting that away into a retirement account and started the snowball. Then rather than waiting a little bit

Debt: Eric Monday, University of Kentucky

30:35 Eric M: Eric Monday Executive Vice President for Finance and Administration at the University of Kentucky. I think the financial advice that’s most helpful when I think back to my grad experience is a professor told me do not take on an extreme amount of debt. You know, figure out a way, even if it takes you a little bit longer, don’t take on a lot of debt. So that’s the advice that helped me the most.

Debt: Byron Kerr, Texas State University

31:01 Byron T: Hi, I’m Dr. Byron Kerr with Financial aid and scholarships at Texas State University, and I received my Ph.D. from Florida State University in Tallahassee working on my Ph.D. I had developed a lot of debt over the years, like a credit card debt, and to get out from underneath that, I reached out to a nonprofit credit agency that helped negotiate with the credit card companies to help me get that debt that paid off.

Financial Habits: Anna Sheufelt, Duke University

31:23 Anna S: My name is Anna Sheufelt. I work at Duke University, overseeing the educational programing and outreach for the Office of Student Loans and Personal Finance. The piece of financial advice that I wish I would have followed when I was in graduate school, I would be to spend less and save more. It sounds pretty simple take to managing money, but I really wish I would have built up that financial foundation because once I increase my knowledge of other things I could be doing with my money, I would have been in a position to just act. And I sort of had to continue with that foundation of, Nope, I have to save first because I didn’t do a good enough job when I was in my master’s program.

Financial Assistance Programs: Gilbert, University of Texas at Austin

32:04 Gilbert: My name is Gilbert. Financial advice I wish I would have followed was maybe just looking more into assistance programs or basic needs programs here in the city of Austin, especially coming from an area that where the cost of living was pretty low. And we went to a city that has one of the highest cost of links in the nation. I wish I would have looked more into like rental assistance programs, and Austin has a couple of them that will help people with low income cover partial or full rental cost and also just any assistance with regards to just basic needs like food and Internet subsidies. That would have helped me focus more on my graduate program. Also, it’s in Edwards and working at U.T. and not have to worry about budgeting too much and sacrificing like someone’s and some needs to continue going to grad school and living here in Austin.

Financial Literacy: Anne Xiong, UC Berkeley

33:02 Anne X: So, yeah, my name is Anne Xiong. I am the program manager for Financial Wellness Program at U.C. Berkeley. Answering this question, it is what piece of finish or otherwise are you glad you followed or do you wish you had followed during grad school? So yeah, there’s a reason is kind of related to the reason why I’m very passionate about financial wellness education because I didn’t have any. So I wish I had have someone that taught me more about money management so I can start to pay more attention to manage my finances. When I was in college, in grad school, I just felt like if I had someone provide me with more guidance, I probably will and was less staff and more resources. And then when I started my first job, I probably will just have a better start. So. Yeah.

Mindset: Kirby Williams, Advantage Publications

33:59 Kirby W: So I’m Kirby Williams, and I am the owner of Advantage Publications. We do financial education, Learning Materials. So I, I didn’t realize until just now why my father always said that if you would pay for high school in college and we would have no loans and that wasn’t very important to him. But that if we want to wanted to go to grad school, that that would be on us to pay for. And I think he really wanted us to see the return on our investment. But, you know, it’s a whole different feeling when you have to pay the bills for it. And he didn’t want us to stress about that for college, which is a wonderful gift that he gave us. You know, you didn’t have to stress about that. Um, but at some point you have to grow up and you do stress about it, and you should stress about it because it’s your career and it’s your life. And if you’re not going for something that gives you joy, then all the career and, you know, stress and the money, stress and the time is wasted.

Financial Habits: Becky Sparks, University of Tennessee, Knoxville

35:02 Becky S: My name is Becky Sparks. I’m with the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, and my advice that I wish I had followed is to save as much as you can while you’re in grad school. I know that’s a very difficult thing to try to do, but your future self will thank you and take it from me who did not take that advice. You will definitely be glad that you did Absolutely

Funding/Income: Robert

35:27 Robert: Yeah. So my name is Robert. I had a lot of helpful advice from people in my department and also people at the university who were able to direct me to different ways to apply for different fellowships and other kinds of opportunities to help me pursue my research in ways that I didn’t really know where there. So that was looking beyond the department, looking for other opportunities for external scholarships, external fellowships, and then finding those two and finally get me to complete my research in the end with that funding.

Student Loans: Sara, Baylor University

36:00 Sara: Hi, I’m Sara. I am at Baylor University. And then my big piece of advice that I followed after leaving my graduate program and currently is I utilize public service student loan forgiveness. And I think a lot of grad students who are either going into academia or the government or any type of nonprofit or education work often don’t know that they can really lower that Student loan monthly repayment if they go down an income driven repayment plan and then utilize. Public service student loan forgiveness. So definitely check that out as we’re going into student loan repayment.

Financial Habits and Retirement Savings: Beth Hunsaker, University of Utah

36:47 Beth H: My name is Beth Hunsaker with the University of Utah’s Financial Wellness Center. I’m the associate director, So thinking back to grad school, the things I’m glad that I did is is really just stick to the fundamentals of looking at what my income was and make sure I was budgeting it, saving. I was investing in my Roth IRA and now 20 years later, has made all the difference. Even the $50 a month I found back then is setting me up for financial success now.

Tax Implications: Ben Raines, Ohio State University

37:19 Ben R: So Ben Raines Program Coordinator for financial education and a student life at Ohio State University. So I was lucky to have a graduate tuition stipend as part of my one at the university. And I’m glad that I went through and thought about how much $25,000 taxable income would affect my income over the course of a year. And while that was unpleasant, I was at least prepared to have my take home income go down $800 a month for six months of the year.

Funding/Income: Michael Dedmon, National Endowment for Financial Education

37:47 Michael D: My name is Michael Dedmon. I’m the research director at the National Endowment for Financial Education and a Ph.D. candidate in political science at Syracuse University. Graduate students approach the Ph.D. journey and get a different range of support from their institution, depending on sort of where it’s ranked, the kind of resources they have, and then where they hope to place their graduate students. I know that for me, I was a teaching at a pretty teaching heavy department where almost all of the financial support was really, really tied to doing that teaching. I wish that I would have realized earlier on the importance of seeking out external sources of funding, and I wish that I would have advocated more for myself. I wish they would have advocated more for fellow graduate students with the graduate school and with my department to provide those resources because of how critical they are, because it’s very difficult to do your work, to finish your degree, and to produce the knowledge that the university wants if you don’t get that additional support. But also the process of achieving and getting that support is really critical. And so I think the universities like the country over, especially the ones that are outside of the top ten that don’t have right, those kinds of resources need to think better about how to support graduate students in getting resources to specifically support their research.

Employment: Gilbert Rogers, University of Oregon

39:01 Gilbert R: My name is Gilbert Rogers, Senior assistant director of financial Wellness at the University of Oregon. So the piece of advice I wish I would have followed during grad school or during my doctoral studies was to seek out an employer that would pay for that. I didn’t know I would land in higher education. I was currently still working in corporate finance, and that’s where I first kind of caught wind of all the loans and loan debt. So I didn’t have zero debt until my doctoral degree. So that’s a piece of advice I work out.

Outtro

39:37 Emily: Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by Dr. Lourdes Bobbio and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

University-Level Policy Ideas to Improve the Financial Lives of Graduate Students and Postdocs

August 14, 2023 by Jill Hoffman 5 Comments

In this episode, Emily shares the microinterviews she recorded at two higher education conferences this past summer. The conference attendees, virtually all of whom work at universities and most of whom have PhDs themselves, responded to this prompt: “What policy at your current university or one you worked at or attended in the past would you change to improve the financial lives of the PhD students and/or postdocs?” Listen through the episode for numerous ideas for policy change to advocate for at your university.

Links mentioned in the Episode

University-Level Policy Ideas to Improve the Financial Lives of Graduate Students and Postdocs

Teaser

00:00 Michael D: And the reproduction of knowledge requires financial security. And when you’re in a situation where you’re not getting paid a living wage, it’s very, very difficult to achieve that financial security. So for me, that’s definitely the major policy change that I would love graduate programs across the country to adopt.

Introduction

00:19 Emily: Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others.

00:50 Emily: This is Season 15, Episode 5, and today I’m sharing the microinterviews I recorded at two higher education conferences this past summer. The conference attendees, virtually all of whom work at universities and most of whom have PhDs themselves, responded to this prompt: “What policy at your current university or one you worked at or attended in the past would you change to improve the financial lives of the PhD students and/or postdocs?” Listen through the episode for numerous ideas for policy change to advocate for at your university. The two conferences I attended were the Graduate Career Consortium Annual Meeting or GCC and the Higher Education Financial Wellness Alliance Summit or HEFWA Summit. GCC is primarily attended by university staff members working with PhD students and postdocs in career and professional development. The HEFWA Summit is attended by university staff members working in financial wellness and financial aid across undergraduate and graduate populations. These two conferences were excellent networking opportunities for me on top of the built-in professional development. However, there are plenty of universities who were not represented at these conferences.

02:10 Emily: Would you please consider recommending my financial education seminars and workshops at your university? My most popularly requested events for the upcoming academic year are How to Survive and Thrive Financially in Graduate School or Your Postdoc, How to Not Hate Your Fellowship During Tax Season, and Up-Level Your Cash Flow as a Graduate Student or Postdoc. Please direct an appropriate potential host within your graduate school, postdoc office, grad student association, etc. to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ where they can learn more. Thank you in advance!

02:53 Emily: You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s15e5/. Without further ado, here are the microinterviews recorded at GCC and the HEFWA Summit.

What policy at your current university or one you worked at or attended in the past would you change to improve the financial lives of the PhD students and/or postdocs?

Understanding Financial Priorities of International Students: Karin Lawton-Dunn, Iowa State University

03:11 Karin L-D: Okay. So I’m Karin Lawton-Dunn and I’m at Iowa State University. And what policy would you change when you’re current or former university campus to improve financial life for graduate students or postdocs? Since I work primarily with international students, I think I would try to change the understanding of faculty and staff of all of the different priorities that international students have with their money, and so that, you know, they really will go without food, without meals, so that they’re able to send some money home to their families that are also in need and struggling with food and housing. And I think that we need to be understanding of that and not punishing them for doing that.

Fee Exemption: Laura Farrell-Wortman, University of Arizona Cancer Center

03:53 Laura F-W: I’m Laura Farrell-Wortman. I’m the assistant director for academic programs with the University of Arizona Cancer Center. So I think that the policy that I would change would be to exempt PhD students from required fees, because I think that it really is, you know, important revenue generation for the university. But it does feel a little bit like kind of like the company store right where you are getting the money for working there, but that you’re turning right around and giving the money back to the university so it doesn’t feel like it’s a really sustainable system. And I would I would be interested to see what kind of revenue generation they’re actually getting from the PhD students and whether or not that could be found in an alternative means.

Postdoc Stipends and Benefits: Kaylee Steen, University of Michigan Medical School

04:41 Kaylee S: My name is Kaylee Steen. I work at the University of Michigan Medical School, and my advice for changing a policy at our institution that we’re actually implementing is ensuring that all postdocs at least make the minimum NIH stipend for their years of experience at the university. I think is really key. And another policy that we have not implemented would be that postdocs receive the same retirement benefits as are the rest of our staff, with the 2 to 1 matching.

Postdoc Benefits: Chris Smith, Virginia Tech

05:19 Chris S: My name’s Chris Smith. I manage the Office of Post-Doc Affairs at Virginia Tech. And one policy I’d like to see change really across the landscape is treating postdocs more like employees with employee benefits, especially retirement matching. Some institutions do that. We are one of them, but a lot of them don’t. And I think it’s important for them to kind of set them up for success.

Postdoc Training and Benefits: Weiwei Xu, Tulane School of Medicine

05:40 WeiWei X: My name is Weiwei Xu. I’m the academic and career advisor for a biomedical sciences graduate program within the Tulane School of Medicine. I think we can actually provide postdocs with more training programs as well as social benefits and retirement benefits so that they feel more supported by the school and by their training programs.

Cost of Living Adjustments: Beth Hunsaker, University of Utah

06:05 Beth H: My name is Beth Hunsaker with the University of Utah’s Financial Wellness Center. I’m the associate director, and the policy that I would want to see changed is to have cost of living adjustments, how much it costs to have rent. When that’s over half of what their stipend is and they’re not able to go and work somewhere else does doesn’t work for their families.

Consistent Funding and Transparency: Chris Hamm, University at Buffalo

06:28 Chris H: My name is Chris Hamm from the University at Buffalo. And the first prompt it was asking about what policy would you change in your current or previous campus approved financial life for grad students? And for me, just working with graduate students, noticing the opportunities for GA TA and RA positions, we do have, you know, minimum amount of financing for those positions that are agreed upon. But I think it’s not consistent across the board for each of different departments. And also true, since it’s a larger university, it’s very siloed as far as what information’s available to graduate students. So I think being able to have that be a little bit more transparent, giving them the opportunity to be more competitive, get themselves these positions and also make them aware of it, because a lot of times it’s only specifically in departments and I think it’s a really great opportunity because that’s something that I did when I was in grad school as well to help fund my education and get my experiences.

Postdoc Benefits: Alexandra Schnoes, Science Communication Lab

07:22 Alexandra S: Hi, I’m Alexandra Schnoes. I am the director for professional development at the Science Communication Lab. One of the things that I think about a lot is, is how postdocs at different institutions are often under these weird sort of employment categories. They’re often in different employment categories at the same institution. They often don’t have access to things, even though they’re considered employees are also considered trainees. So they also often don’t have access to things like sometimes even health care. But potentially child care support or retirement accounts. And and all of these things are ridiculous. These are these are people with Ph.Ds who are acting as professionals and and they should be able to be treated like you know, the employees that they actually are, as opposed to some weird, crazy, you know, none of the above, which means they get none of the benefits and all of the work of being a postdoc sometimes for years on end, doing amazing work, making the university home. But then they’ve sacrificed finances, potentially health care, retirement accounts, the ability to have children, all of this, all of these are things that policies could actually help address.

Child Care: Kathryn Sawyer Vidrine, University of Notre Dame

08:57 Kathryn SV: So this is Kathryn Sawyer Vidrine from Notre Dame and if I were to change one policy to make life easier on graduate students and post-docs, it would be to provide childcare for children under two years old because there is almost none in our area.

Postdoc Benefits: Peter Myers, Washington University in Saint Louis

09:16 Peter M: My name is Peter Myers. I’m at Washington University in Saint Louis. The one policy that I would change for postdocs would be to make them all employees of the university.

Wages/Stipends: Elizabeth Eikmann, Washington University in Saint Louis

09:30 Elizabeth E: My name is Elizabeth Eikmann. I am the program coordinator for Postdoctoral Community Engagement at Washington University in Saint Louis, and I was a graduate student at Saint Louis University. And if I could change one policy for my former university’s campus to improve the financial life of the grad students there, it would be immediate graduate assistantship raises. The wages currently are not even living wage wages. Graduate assistants there are paid only nine months out of the year instead of 12. So not only implementing a raise but also instituting a year round salary, which also includes year round access to health insurance, which is not currently a policy there on campus.

Retirement Benefits: Maggie Nettesheim Hoffmann, Humanities Without Walls Consortium

10:24 Maggie NH: My name is Maggie Nettesheim Hoffmann. I’m the associate director of Career diversity for the Humanities Without Walls Consortium. Which is a grant for a Mellon funded, grant funded project at space at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. But I am located at Marquette University in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. So I think the policy advice that I would give and more systemically across, you know, higher education across the nation would be to recommend to universities that you consider one of the benefits for graduate students enrolled in your schools to give them access to starting their own 403b plans while they’re working on their master’s degrees or their PhDs, and making that a real benefit of, you know, if you’re at a public university that has you know, that regard, students are organized, making that a part of your union contract negotiations, aiming at private institutions, right? I mean, it’s not a heavy cost to the institution at all just to give them a framework or structure to start investing into those for all three plants. So that would be one of the policies that I would advocate as a shift in our higher ed, higher education ecosphere. Yeah.

Financial Education: Brady Krien, University of Iowa

11:32 Brady K: So my name is Brady Krien and I work at the University of Iowa, and the policy that I would change on our campus is to actually give us greater latitude to provide resources and information about finances for graduate students, and particularly related to the tax implications of fellowships that they win and how they need to prepare in advance to deal with those.

Financial Education: Yazzmynn Martinez, University of Colorado, Boulder

11:58 Yazzmynn M: Hi, everyone. My name is Yazzmynn Martinez. I am a events education and emergency response coordinator at the University of Colorado Boulder. I work at the Basic Needs center and one policy that I would change about the university campus to improve the financial life of our graduate and postdoc students is to provide a more formal education on basic needs in general so that can include how to get housing before they start college and also how to like budget with groceries and other expenses. And I would also advocate to increase the stipend just because oftentimes that’s not even enough for students to cover their living expenses.

Transparency: Katy Peplin, Thrive PhD

12:45 Katy P: Hi, I’m Katy Peplin from Thrive PHD. You can find me at thrive dash PhD dot com. I work with graduate students all around the world on being a scholar and a human. What policy would be useful. I think that the biggest policy that universities can put in place is transparency. I know so many students who have been caught in between different policies where they weren’t aware that certain things applied to them when they actually did or they lost out on money because things were well communicated. And I know that it’s extra work for universities to make some of those things transparent. But the more information that’s readily and easily accessible, the less grad students have to depend on their departments or their advisors who might not be well informed to let them. Know about opportunities. So transparency.

Commercial

13:31 Emily: Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, frugality, increasing income, or student loans, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer seminars and workshops on these topics and more in a variety of formats, and I’m now booking for the 2023-2024 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, or postdoc office? My seminars are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/speaking/ or simply email me at emily@PFforPhDs.com to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Wages/Stipends: Sasha Goldman, Boston University

15:38 Sasha G: I am Sasha Goldman. I am the director of PCE resources at Boston University. And if I could change a policy on my current university campus to improve the financial life of the graduate students and postdocs, I would give everyone 12 months of funding and everyone more money.

Fellowship Payment: Joseph Gonzales, University of Miami

15:56 Joseph G: My name is Joseph Gonzales and I’m the senior director in the Office of Science and Assistance at the University of Miami. And the policy that I would change and this isn’t specifically related to my current campus. It’s based on my experience at different campuses. It’s how people pay like to pay fellowships, and especially when there’s a research component to it, they tend not to use the employment side of it where it would be there would be tax withholdings, because I believe sometimes faculty think that it’s a way to sidestep tax. The tax requirement when they don’t realize that it’s actually basically pushing it down the line for the student to deal with later and sometimes that often students don’t realize that there is a tax liability too, that comes with their financial aid. And by the time they’ve found out they haven’t saved money for that liability. So puts them in this financial crunch, sort of once their taxes are had been filed or they don’t claim it, and then it just gets pushed further down the line. So I would like faculty and universities in general to have said you’re trying to help other people. I don’t know if it’s more of a process that is that are aligned because it changes from one university to the other and how these are handled.

Wages/Stipends: Alex Embree, University of Missouri

17:39 Alex E: My name is Alex Embree. I’m the program manager at the Office for Financial Success for the University of Missouri. And the policy that I would want to have changed is that graduate student payment is in accordance with the value that they bring to the university when they are operating in a teaching capacity or grant. They need to be paid accordingly.

Time to Degree Transparency: Robbie Pearson, Southern Methodist University

18:03 Robbie P: My name is Robbie Pearson, and I’m the director of graduate and postdoctoral graduate career development and post-doc affairs at SMU in Dallas, Texas. And in terms of policies that I would be interested in revising around graduate education to improve the financial life of grad students and postdocs, I’m really interested in time to degree. I would like to see more transparency around how long it takes to earn a doctoral degree, and I’d like to see policies and initiatives around making sure that that’s a reasonable amount of time. Right. So in some fields it could take eight, nine, ten years to earn a doctoral degree or longer. And, you know, there’s some case that that’s important for the intellectual development of the scholar and for the research that they’re contributing to. But I also want to balance that against the reality that graduate students should be thinking of their time in grad student in grad school as an investment, not only into the intellectual development and into their field, but also into their financial futures. So getting them into the workforce in a reasonable amount of time is a really good thing. From my perspective.

Financial Education and Wages/Stipends: Stevie Eberle, Stanford University School of Medicine

19:03 Steve E: Stevie Eberle, executive director and assistant dean of biosecurity at Stanford University School of Medicine. So what policy would you change in your current or former university campus to improve the financial life of graduate students and postdocs? I would. We have an entry level class that all incoming graduate students have to take. And then there is a kind of an intro group that postdocs attend. And I really do wish we had financial training and planning built into the trainings, especially in the Bay Area because it’s so expensive and you you can’t quite understand it until you’re there. So I really would like somebody who can very directly explain the market and directly explain how to navigate it and have the resources to develop that. That being said, I think it is the administration’s responsibility to also help build better structures for that which we are working on, I will say. So we have subsidized housing in that type of thing, but subsidized housing is still very expensive. So I would like to have better pay, better caps, better minimum salaries and better coaching for faculty on how to treat something else. And often treat students and postdocs as more respectfully and more like adults and give them better tools for negotiation. Because I do think sometimes faculty just don’t know that. Sometimes they do, and that’s the problem, but sometimes they don’t. So I’d like to do better education on equitable offers and help better develop those kind of baseline expectations for parents and for this.

Cost Transparency: Derek Attig, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

20:57 Derek A: I’m Derek Attig. I work in the Graduate college at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. And I’d like to see it be consistent that tuition and fees and the total cost of graduate education is completely transparent to people before they apply and when they’re making the decision to attend so they can understand the costs and weigh that against outcomes they hope to achieve.

Wages/Stipends: Michael Dedmon, National Endowment for Financial Education

21:25 Michael D: My name is Michael Dedmon. I’m the research director at the National Endowment for Financial Education and a Ph.D. candidate in political science at Syracuse University. I can definitely say for me that the single policy change that I would love for my graduate program, which is still sort of considering to adopt, is to raise wages and raise stipends for for graduate students. My department recently unionized, even though I’m an advanced graduate student and no longer in the bargaining unit. It’s something that’s very, very close to my heart that I think is very important. It’s beneficial for universities in terms of recruitment and retention. It reduces time to degree. It reduces attrition. We all know the benefits of it, in addition to the fact that the work that the students put in is what makes the universities work. They’re teaching students, they’re producing research, they’re publishing papers. It’s a beneficial situation for everybody. And the reproduction of knowledge requires financial security. And when you’re in a situation where you’re not getting paid a living wage, it’s very, very difficult to achieve that financial security. So for me, that’s definitely the major policy change that I would love graduate programs across the country to adopt.

Wages/Stipends: Byron Kerr, Texas State University

22:30 Byron K: Hi, I’m Dr. Byron Kerr with Financial aid and scholarships at Texas State University, and I received my Ph.D. from Florida State University in Tallahassee and what I would like to see changed on college campuses is back in the day. At any rate, my stipend check for my for my Ph.D. always came in a month after the payment deadline. So I always generated a $100 late fee every single semester. So I was always costing me money to be employed.

Housing: Anna Sheufelt, Duke University

22:58 Anna S: My name is Anna Sheufelt I work at Duke University, overseeing the educational programing and outreach for the Office of Student Loans and Personal Finance. A policy change that I would love to see come to. My campus is guaranteed housing for our international masters and graduate students. These are folks who have some of the largest complexities going on in their lives and also some of the greatest financial constraints with the international student status.

Wages/Stipends and Tuition: Annie Maxfield, University of Texas at Austin

23:28 Annie M: My name is Annie Maxfield. And I am at UT Austin in Texas. Career engagement and I would say the biggest financial policy problem is that tuition has continually become higher and higher over the years. Yet graduates students stipends are not increasing at that rate. And so we know the university is taking in more funds. However, the distribution of those funds is inequitable in terms of how graduate student labor is actually compensated.

Child Care: Phil Schuman, Indiana University

24:03 Phil S: So my name is Phil Schuman. I’m from Indiana University. One thing I do expect to see for a lot of grad students throughout higher ed is more access to child care and whether or not that’s temporary or permanent or whatever. But just the ability for grad students to be able to focus on their studies, their academics when they have child, if you have childcare issues come up, just because we’ve seen a lot of childcare and daycare cost issues and closing on campus. But I think it’s one thing, it’s a huge barrier that could potentially prevent grad students from getting over that hurdle.

Fellowship Transparency and Experiential Learning for International Students: Sonali Majumdar, Princeton University

24:34 Sonali M: Yeah. Hi, everyone. I am Sonali Majumdar and Assistant Dean for Professional Development in the Grad Futures program of the Graduate School of Princeton University. And I just wanted to talk a little bit about what kind of inclusive policies university campuses could have to support their international graduate students. And most of population on their financial wellness. And there are two things that come to mind. One is transparency on what kind of research fellowships are open to international graduate students and postdocs. And a lot of the universities do have research, Discovery Fellowship. Discovery databases like David Hopkins has a public dashboard that like lists all sorts of fellowships at the Graduate and closed off level by citizenship accessibility as well. And the other thing is experiential learning. What can we do to make experiential learning more accessible to international population? One pathway that does work is our internships and our fellowships that are funded by the institution that the students are working on, and that relates to work policies of how much academic hours on top of academic hours are. Students are available to work at university offices or other units on internships. And so there is definitely some interesting new programs that are helping out in this arena. And I hope more universities would eventually think about accessibility for their international population. On experiential learning. Thank you.

Financial Education: Matt Hertenstein, DePaul University

26:05 Matt H: Hi, my name is Matt Hertenstein, a college professor at DePaul University, received my Ph.D. at U.C. Berkeley in 2000. It may have changed since I graduated, but the policy I would change was to actually teach some financial literacy advice and financial wellness to Ph.Ds and make that a priority during orientation and make sure that people actually knew that that was available to help them.

Health Insurance: Alex Yen, Boston University

26:33 Alex Y: Hi, my name is Alex Yen I am a postdoc at Boston University in the Professional Development and Postdoctoral Affairs office. The policy that I would change or wish could change is that I hope that more universities will allow graduate students who take time off to keep their student health insurance during that time off. So that way they can take care of their mental health while they are recovering or taking some time away.

Outtro

27:14 Emily: Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by Dr. Lourdes Bobbio and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

Unionization and Individual Negotiation to Improve Graduate Student Stipends and Benefits

July 31, 2023 by Jill Hoffman Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily shares first-person stories of graduate students enjoying improved stipends and benefits thanks to prior negotiation. The first half of the episode includes the experiences of four graduate students with their unions or when taking part in unionization movements. The second half of the episode includes four individual negotiation stories from prospective graduate students.

Links mentioned in the Episode

Unionization and Negotiation in Grad School

Teaser

00:00 Katy P: But having a union means that there’s a level of protection between a department or sometimes even an individual and a graduate student. And that level of protection is the thing that in my opinion, only becomes possible under collective action, collective organizing. So I know that if I had not had a union, I wouldn’t have had anywhere to go to say like, Hey, this doesn’t seem fair, this doesn’t seem right. And because of a union, I had a system, I had clear instructions of how to do it. I had designated people to talk to. I had resources. I had people in the administration to talk to. I wasn’t alone negotiating a disagreement one on one.

Introduction

00:44 Emily: Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others.

01:12 Emily: This is Season 15, Episode 4, and today I’m sharing first-person stories of graduate students enjoying improved stipends and benefits thanks to prior negotiation. The first half of the episode includes the experiences of four graduate students with their unions or when taking part in unionization movements. The second half of the episode includes four individual negotiation stories from prospective graduate students.

01:39 Emily: I’m beyond excited to announce that I’m offering a brand-new live one-hour seminar titled “How to Not Hate Your Fellowship During Tax Season.” It’s all about how to understand and properly handle your fellowship stipend that will not be reported on a Form W-2, which is what I call awarded income. Awarded income typically doesn’t have income tax withheld from it, which can become an unwelcome surprise and even financial hardship if the recipient is not taught what to do starting with their first paycheck of this type. In addition to teaching about estimated tax and self-withholding, I give pointers for preparing for and navigating tax season with awarded income. This seminar is intended to be taken during orientation or shortly after by people who are switching onto awarded income for the first time, so it will be exclusively available between August and October of this year. If you are starting on awarded income in the fall and your university doesn’t withhold income tax—or you’ve dealt with that scenario in the past—would you please recommend this seminar to your fellowship coordinator, program head, or graduate school? Please cc me emily@PFforPhDs.com so I can pick up the conversation. My goal is for every grad student receiving awarded income to be forewarned about this issue before it rears its ugly head during tax season!

03:06 Emily: You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s15e4/. Without further ado, here’s our compilation episode on unions and individual negotiation.

What is Your Union or Unionization Movement Story?

03:25 Emily: This portion of the episode includes four responses to my open-ended prompt of “What is your union or unionization movement story?” If you would like to hear other episodes on unions, look up Season 12 Episode 7, Season 5 Episode 9, and Season 4 Episode 14.

Courtney’s Union Story, Oregon State University

03:49 Courtney: Hello, my name is Courtney and I am a third year Ph.D. student at Oregon State University in Corvallis, Oregon, in civil engineering. The Coalition for Graduate Employees at Oregon State was established in 1999 with the first bargaining contract in 2001 and since then, the union has successfully bargained for amazing health insurance, including dental and vision, and they have continuously raised wages and reduced student fees and provide a no strings attached hardship fund for graduate students. I directly benefit from this union by fully utilizing my health insurance. My deductible is only $100 and my co-pays are very minimal. I can go to the dentist every four months too. And my funding source is currently an external fellowship, so I’m not a full member, but I pay $10 per month to be an associate member as I still benefit from this work and I want to support them. Full membership is 2% of pretax monthly salary and is optional for grad students and assistantships and grad research assistants. The union also often has socials and provides many resources to support graduate students and assist with grievances. Full members also get discounts and deals at local establishments in Corvallis, which is pretty cool. And there are many hardworking members in this union who I am very appreciative of and make my graduate experience much more enjoyable.

Michele’s Union Story, Michigan State University

05:25 Michele: My name is Michele and I’m a Ph.D. student at Michigan State University. When I first saw MSU, I didn’t know very much about unions because of the pandemic. My department had lower participation in their graduate student organization or GSO, so there was no one to discuss unions at the orientation. However, the president of our GSO encouraged me to be our steward or graduate employees union. After I discovered that I was interested in learning more. So I’ve been representing my department for the last year and then continuing that role in the upcoming year as well. My funding is actually from fellowships and not from a teaching assistantship or a research assistant position in Michigan. Only teaching assistants are allowed to be covered under the current contract. So our research assistants and fellows are not covered under the current contract. However, the benefits that the teachers went through their contract are typically also given to RAs and fellows. For example, the previous contracts the graduate students bargained for gave to free health insurance, which was also extended to RAs and Fellows also received health insurance coverage. But we have to pay taxes on it as it is dispersed as a fellowship.

06:46 Michele: Even though RAs and fellows cannot be covered under the contract, they can join the union as affiliate members. This may change in the state of Michigan, though, as there was recently some legislation passed in the Senate that would allow us to start bargaining for a contract. I think one of the most important benefits of the union is that unites the grad students together and helps with information sharing. For example, the way fellowships are dispersed, MSU is typically in a lump sum at the beginning of the semester and during this spring semester. This past year, I did not receive my semester payment until about a month after it was stated that I was supposed to receive it on my tax form. But then I was able to contact other members of the union through our Slack channel who had a similar problem in order to resolve this issue as quickly as possible. I have also seen other members of the union get help on a myriad of other topics such as late pay and overwork. One drawback of having a formal union is that dues do need to be paid by members in order to help the union run. And then these dues are used to pay for staff organizers and paying dues to the The American Federation of Teachers and the MSU Union also had two recently increased dues for affiliate members because membership dropped a lot during the pandemic. However, as more people join the union, then the cost of running it can be spread out among more people. In addition, the benefits and pay increases that can be negotiated when the majority of graduate employees are in the union will also offset this cost.

08:31 Michele: It is also more important to make sure that you have an issue that you want to organize around, and the dues can then come later to cover the operating costs of the union once it grows. For those of you who are looking to organize a union at your own university, it will often depend on state legislation. Some states do not classify their graduate students as employees, even if they work as teaching or research assistants. And this means that they are not eligible to unionize. And a good book about learning how to organize is the secrets of a successful organizer.

09:08 Michele: And then from a personal finance point of view, the union has been beneficial to me and to all graduate students. They recently were able to negotiate a 5% raise above the minimum across the board, while bargaining has been on pause. And in addition to the health insurance, there’s also a 50% coverage on dental insurance. Overwork is also written into most union contracts, and enforcing it would also give someone more time to focus on a side hustle if they needed some extra cash. As long as it’s permitted by the university, their program. In addition, enforcing the contractual working hours, could also free up more time to focus on research.

09:54 Michele: Tuition waivers can also be negotiated into the union contract. So for MSU’s current contract, nine credits can be waived in fall and spring and five in the summer. And there’s also medical leave and bereavement leave. And so this year is also a collective bargaining year, and a new contract will be negotiated. So some of the bargaining planks that MSU has been focused on or full dental coverage, a pay increase that tracks inflation and cost of living and interest for late payments.

Katy Peplin’s Union Story, Thrive PhD

10:33 Katy P: Hi, I’m Katy Peplin from Thrive PhD, and I am a proud member of two former unions, both as a graduate student and as a teaching assistant. I was part of the UCLA union when I was there as a master’s student, and then I was part of the Graduate Student Union, GEO, at the University of Michigan my entire tenure there. I wholeheartedly believe in unions for graduate students. I think that one of the things that is most important about them is that they provide collective power in a place where individual concerns can really easily get swept under the rug. For example, when I was in my last year of teaching, I was supposed to be teaching a class which was a 50% workload. But in reality it was two sessions that I had taught for 2 hours of direct teaching, some grading, and then attending the lectures. And that assignment was switched without my knowledge or consent over the winter break into a four direct teaching hours plus screening, plus grading upper level writing class. And I was just informed that it was still going to be a 50% contract and that I would be making the same amount of money. So I immediately went to my rep and was like, Is this legal? And unfortunately it was legal, but I was able, with the help of my union, to negotiate for better terms of my pay. I was able to reduce the writing requirement and therefore the grading requirement of this class. And I knew that I would not have to rely on the word of my department and my advisors.

12:07 Katy P: So now that I work with graduate students all over the world, I think it’s really important to say that most faculty in most universities aren’t out to get graduate students. Universities run on the backs and labor of graduate students in a lot of different ways. But having a union means that there’s a level of protection between a department or sometimes even an individual and a graduate student. And that level of protection is the thing that in my opinion, only becomes possible under collective action, collective organizing. So I know that if I had not had a union, I wouldn’t have had anywhere to go to say like, Hey, this doesn’t seem fair, this doesn’t seem right. And because of a union, I had a system, I had clear instructions of how to do it. I designated people to talk to. I had resources. I had people in the administration to talk to. I wasn’t alone negotiating a disagreement one on one. My unions also made it possible for me to have livable health care, livable stipends, even if they were below the cost of cost of living at the time. And I know that those things were only possible because the group that provided so much labor for the university banded together.

13:19 Katy P: If you are a grad student who is thinking about unionizing, I really encourage you to reach out to other unions. The union that I was represented by as a Ph.D. student was formed in 1974. It’s one of the earliest university unions for teaching assistants. It’s geo at the University of Michigan, and I know that they have consulted with all sorts of burgeoning union movements all around the country. So there’s a lot of people who have walked this path before. GEO has experience dealing with shifting administrations, changing state laws, changing labor laws. They have experience with withheld pay and strike grievances and health care negotiations. And there’s a lot of information that becomes available when you start organizing in union that most graduate students don’t know anything about. Like, I had no idea what a bargaining plank was or how to get into meetings or what a provost was or who the board of Regents were. So being in a union for me was both a way to give back to the thing that was supporting me and giving me so much benefit, but also it was a really great way to learn about how universities work. Obviously, it’s a singular point of view about how a university works, and I’m sure that there are other administrations that might come back and say, You know, this isn’t exactly how it works. But for me on the ground as a union member, I learned so much about how university budgets worked, where my stipend even came from, how my health insurance was negotiated. And those are all really important skills that I’ve needed well, after I’ve left university. So even though I am no longer part of the union and I work for myself, I still use all of my union skills to think about what’s in the best interest, to look at insurance plans, to think about how budgets are made, or if I’m approaching universities to ask for funding.

15:06 Katy P: And it’s certainly something that I work with some clients every day, because the reality is that graduate school takes away from some of your prime earning your prime living years, and it’s for a good cause to create research and add to the knowledge in the world. But also there’s material impacts for taking a big chunk of your twenties or a big chunk of your twenties and thirties. Or to leave a secure job and come back to grad school. There are impacts for taking that time away. And the more that I work with people, the more I really see a distinct difference between campuses that have unions and their graduate students feel like they have some level of security, they have some level of a reliable stipend over the summer or they have some sense that their health insurance will continue from year to year, and students at universities who don’t have it.

15:56 Katy P: Sometimes it can be really easy to reduce unions to like, Oh, they’re the reason I get my good benefits or like, that’s the reason that I get a good stipend as opposed to a very crappy stipend. But I think that the the real benefit outside of those material benefits is just understanding and having some protection for these vulnerable years where you’re really giving a lot of yourself and wanting to have some protection back to them

Anonymous #1’s Unionization Story, A Private Christian university

16:25 Emily/Anonymous #1: This submission is from an anonymous contributor. Quote I’m a Ph.D. candidate and graduate assistant at a private Christian American university. When I started in my program, I was making just over half of what is considered the minimum cost of living in my city. I was not provided health insurance over the summer through my job. Needless to say, it is difficult to make ends meet in these circumstances. Eventually, the graduate assistants at my school put out a letter of demands to the university, insisting that we be fairly compensated and covered for our medical needs. We demonstrated how much money we bring into the university with each class we teach and how dependent the school is on us to teach many required courses for undergraduate students. For example, from what I can calculate when teaching just one class for one semester of 25 students, the school brings in six times more money than I am paid in a whole year. We also appealed to the school’s religious ideologies and ethics and pointed out the hypocrisy of a Christian institution taking advantage of people in this way.

17:28 Emily/Anonymous #1: The school did respond and met some of our demands, but continued to refuse to pay us a living wage. Higher ups at universities want to tell us that because we are also students, that much of our labor is an educational experience for which we should be grateful and not expect compensation. But the truth is that our labor is real work that we have trained hard to be qualified to do, and that the universities could not function without. To get a job as a graduate assistant a person must have a college degree and go through competitive selection processes. Many of us even already have master’s degrees before we start in Ph.D. programs and take these jobs. And it’s not as if we’re asking to be paid as much as professors. We are only asking for the bare minimum of what it takes to live in this particular town. But the university has refused. We realized that we weren’t going to get our basic needs met unless we united and organized. So the union effort began.

18:22 Emily/Anonymous #1: I am keeping my identity and the identity of my school. Anonymous, as we have not yet gone public with our union efforts. But we did want to take this opportunity to get our story out there so that graduate assistants at other universities would know that they aren’t alone in their struggles. Additionally, I want to say that we have been very inspired and invigorated by the efforts and successes of graduate students unionizing at other universities throughout the country. So a big thank you to all who have come before us and for the risks they took. It feels like this is a moment of progress for graduate assistants and we are excited to become a part of that. We gave our university the opportunity to write this wrong without us organizing, but they have refused. So we are going forth with our unionizing efforts. Thank you so much. Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast for having this episode and inviting me to share my story. We have a hard road ahead, but we are ready.

Commercial

19:11 Emily: Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, frugality, increasing income, or student loans, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer seminars and workshops on these topics and more in a variety of formats, and I’m now booking for the 2023-2024 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, or postdoc office? My seminars are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/speaking/ or simply email me at emily@PFforPhDs.com to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Individual Stipend Negotiation

20:31 Emily: This portion of the episode includes four responses to my prompts regarding individual stipend negotiation. The prompts were: “What was your original stipend and benefits offer? What was the process of negotiating this offer? What was the outcome of the negotiation?” If you would like to hear another episode like this one, look up Season 8 Episode 7.

Anonymous #2, University of Georgia

20:58 Emily/Anonymous #2: This admission is from an anonymous contributor. Quote, I’m an incoming doctoral student at the university of Georgia, located in Athens, Georgia. I’m in the social sciences.

What Was Your Original Stipend and Benefits Offer?

21:09 Emily/Anonymous #2: My department gave me an offer of a research assistantship and they nominated me for a university wide fellowship. The RA-ship pays $26,000, and the fellowship is $7,000 per year for four years. In addition, my tuition is waived, and every student in my department gets a $500 conference stipend per semester. All in all, I am receiving funding from two sources, one from my department and one from the university overall.

21:35 Emily/Anonymous #2: I also had a competing offer, which is what allowed me to feel comfortable negotiating with my department. The other offer was about $5,000 more a year at a roughly comparable institution. Both are one SEC schools, although the departments and selves aren’t as comparable. That offer was also comprised an assistantship and fellowship with the extra $5,000 coming from the fellowship.

What Was the Process of Negotiating This Offer?

21:57 Emily/Anonymous #2: At the time I had these offers, I was also in the last year of my master’s program, and I was really well-positioned to negotiate by virtue of my existing professional connections. Members of my faculty knew the faculty at both of the institutions I was looking at, so I asked them if negotiations were the norm in our field or if I would be perceived as out of step. I also think it’s worth asking the newer faculty in your department what they did when entering grad school and during their job search, because the tenured professors haven’t job search in a while, so their norms and experiences might not be as up to date for the actual negotiations.

22:31 Emily/Anonymous #2: I drafted an email that laid out that I had a competing offer and asked if there is anything else I should consider while making a decision. I wasn’t sure what would shake out as a result of me asking, and I was told asking directly for more money wouldn’t be the best way to approach negotiations. So I gave them an opportunity to sell me on the program. I had been corresponding with the program coordinator, so that’s who I sent the email to.

What Was the Outcome of the Negotiation?

22:54 Emily/Anonymous #2: They responded with a very kind email that basically said that they weren’t surprised I had other offers and they offered me a named department award that was specifically for professional development funding for $5,000 over four years.

23:06 Emily/Anonymous #2: I was happy for a few reasons. One, it showed me the department was willing to invest in me. Two, I got the money I asked for, and three, because it was a named award. I can put it on my CV. At that point, I went ahead and immediately accepted the offer and let everyone involved know that it had worked out. Ultimately, I’m glad I negotiated it because I got the funding I requested and because it told me more about the department culture than anything else could have. I also feel really well-positioned to take advantage of conferences and professional opportunities in my field without worrying about how I’ll pay for them. I would recommend negotiating as a graduate student, even if just to see how the department reacts. In most cases, it’s a reasonable request. So if they respond with disapproval, that could be a sign for your future in that department, end quote.

Anonymous #3, a Large Public University in the Midwest

23:58 Anonymous #3: So I just completed the second year of a five year humanities doctoral program at a large public university in the Midwest. My current program was my top choice during the application process, and thanks to guidance from the Personal Finance for PhDs podcast, I was able to use the offer for my second choice program to negotiate and improve the financial package of my top choice program.

What Was Your Original Stipend and Benefits Offer?

24:22 Anonymous #3: Originally, my top choice offered me a five year funding package that included a two year fellowship to be used during a first and last year of my graduate studies. This fellowship relieves me of teaching duties and also offers a higher stipend. The original 12 month stipend was $28,316, but the university increased the stipend right before my first semester to $30,420. So this is the amount I received during my first year when I was on fellowship and I will receive this amount or perhaps even more if the university decides to increase it again for my fifth and final year. My remaining three years of graduate study are funded by a teaching assistantship. So as a GTA, I teach one course per semester. The nine month GTA stipend is $21,280 in my department. There seems to be more and more opportunity to teach a course over the summer, which pays approximately an additional $7,000 on top of that nine months stipend. However, this is not a guarantee and international students have priority over domestic students for these positions, specifically in my department.

25:29 Anonymous #3: My second choice program offered me a 12 month, $24,000 stipend for the five year program, in addition to an extra $5,000 to be used for research over the course of the five years. So in total, the financial package is about $5,000 more than that of my first choice program. But of course, this is not taking into account small differences in fees.

What was the process of negotiating this offer?

25:51 Anonymous #3: Ultimately, I sent a brief direct email to the DGS at my top choice program. I explained that I was deciding between two programs and that the other program of interest, which I named specifically in the email, had offered a more competitive funding package which included guaranteed summer funding. And I outlined all of the details of the funding package in the email to the DGS.

What was the outcome of the negotiation?

26:13 Anonymous #3: My negotiation process was actually quite easy. The DGS responded the next day and offered an additional $6,000, a lump sum that I could use any way I wished. So there was really no back and forth. I sent the email. I asked if there was anything that they could do to increase the financial package, and they responded and said, yes, here’s an additional $6,000.

26:33 Anonymous #3: So this is the financial commitment that I needed to make my final decision. I accepted the offer and I received this cash amount when I arrived on campus. Ultimately, my second choice program has since increased stipends to $30,000 per year. However, my current program has also made changes to funding packages. Summer teaching opportunities have increased in my department specifically for domestic students, and health insurance will soon be covered 100% by the university, so my first two years there was an 85% subsidy. So it seems to me that financial packages can really shift and evolve over the course of one’s program. But I think it’s critical to make sure that you have a guaranteed financial package that is workable for you from the very beginning. For me, as a 31 year old doctoral student who left a career to pursue a PhD in a completely different field, financial security is really important and pursuing programs with strong funding packages in affordable cities and then negotiating with my top choice and continuing to seek out additional grants and awards now that I’m here has been really important for my success in the program and also for my well-being overall.

Anonymous #4

27:47 Emily/Anonymous #4: This next contribution was submitted anonymously. Quote, Hello. Newly minted Ph.D. student here today. I’ll be telling you a bit about my experience of “negotiating” my offer letter for grad school. I say negotiating with air quotes because my experience was not the typical case of using an offer from one school as leverage to improve your offer at another school. But I think my experience can help motivate others to negotiate, which is why I’m happy to share.

28:14 Emily/Anonymous #4: So for a bit of back story, I knew from early on during my undergraduate education that I wanted to go to graduate school. However, the research I was doing as an undergrad wasn’t something I was super passionate about. By my senior year, I found a research area that was more interesting to me, But felt that I wasn’t ready to apply to grad school since I’d be switching fields in order to gain a better understanding of the state of the field and really specify a topic. I could devote six years of my life to. I worked as a lab tech for two years doing research in the field. I thought I wanted to pursue in graduate school and yay, I was correct in my judgment. I found a research topic I really enjoyed. The downside to this perhaps, was that I consequently narrowed my options for grad programs.

28:58 Emily/Anonymous #4: I ended up applying to two programs that are both direct admit, so I knew which lab I’d be joining and have a general idea for a project I’d work on. Following interviews, I realized that one of the labs was not the right fit for me. So by the end of the application cycle, I only had one offer letter. Now, during my interview at this institution, two PI’s, neither of whom were the P.I. I was interviewing for, and one of whom was on the grad committee. Both encouraged me to negotiate my offer. Then, prior to receiving the offer letter my PI emailed me saying we should zoom once I got it so we can go over the details and, quote, discuss anything I’d want to negotiate. So I was confident that negotiation was not taboo for this program and was reassured that my PI would even help me.

What was your original stipend and benefits offer?

29:41 Emily/Anonymous #4: But how exactly do you negotiate without the leverage of another offer? You just ask. My original offer was a 12 month appointment with a stipend of $32,000 for my first two years. Then the departmental rate guaranteed for nine month appointments for three more years, as well as an additional departmental award to be paid over my first three years. Even though I didn’t have another offer, I was still planning to ask for smaller things such as relocation assistance. Then I was awarded the NSF Graduate Research Fellowship. With the Fellowship. I recognized I had a little bit more bargaining power, but at the end of the day, there was only one school I’d be able to take it to. Still, I knew that my PI and department were generally okay with negotiations, so I figured I had nothing to lose if I asked for more.

What was the process of negotiating this offer?

30:26 Emily/Anonymous #4: I first zoomed with my PI, That’s when I asked about relocation assistance. But I followed up on that zoom call with an email basically saying, I’ve heard that other NSF recipients asked for these things. Is any of this even possible? And listed the following agreement to pay the NSF stipend on non-NSF years: partial control of the $12,000 cost of education fund that is part of the fellowship and a sign up bonus.

What was the outcome of the negotiation?

30:52 Emily/Anonymous #4: My plan was to gauge what my PI thought would be reasonable requests, then go forward with only those. But they actually just went ahead and asked about all of them. And two days later I had my answers. First, the school will match the NSF statement. First, the school will match the NSF stipend on non NSF years. Second, I won’t have control over the $12,000 funds. However, the school may top it off with $2,000 that I can use for conferences, workshops, etc. I say may because this component is negotiated separately from the stipend and is still in the works. Third, a sign on bonus is not possible. However, the department award in my original offer letter was reworked into a larger amount that I will receive in my fifth year. So while it’s not technically a sign on bonus, it is an additional lump sum that I’m being guaranteed. And finally, my PI can reimburse up to $600 in relocation costs.

31:48 Emily/Anonymous #4: So overall, my negotiation, which was nothing more than just asking, was largely successful. I do want to note that there are two important factors to consider in my case. One, because this is a direct admit program, my PI was in my corner doing the asking for me. I never did any of the negotiation with the department directly, which may be the case for those entering rotation programs and why asking can be more intimidating for others. Second, my PI has external non-government funding which allows for more flexibility in how it’s spent. I’m almost certain that I would not get the NSF stipend match nor relocation assistance if my PI didn’t have private funding. So it can be useful to know what sources of funding your potential PI has to help you gauge if certain asks are reasonable versus unreasonable. I hope my story will help motivate others to ask for more than what their initial offer consists of. Whether they have offers from five schools or one school. And even if you don’t have an external fellowship like I did at the end of the day, the school offered you a spot. They want you there. I truly believe that making reasonable requests will not hurt you in the eyes of a university that wants you to commit to their program. You’re never going to have an answer unless you ask. End quote.

Anonymous #5, Negotiation Advice

33:06 Emily/Anonymous #5: This is from an anonymous contributor. Quote, I will be starting in a PhD program in fall 2023. After some correspondence with the professor in charge, I managed to secure a bit of additional funding. My advice is to think of the process as just asking questions instead of negotiation. Make a convincing case and focus on controllable and movable points.

33:30 Emily/Anonymous #5: One. Thinking of the process as simply a communication exchange helped me in two ways. By removing the pressure of negotiation, it helped me to think clearly about what I need to support myself financially and the pressure points in the initial offer, e.g. rent. And as such it help me to communicate clearly about my financial concerns. Admitted, but not accepted is the time to discuss financial details and faculty fully expect students to ask questions and are prepared to leverage their resources to adjust offers to convince students to join

34:06 Emily/Anonymous #5: Two. Making a convincing case stemmed from thinking concretely about how I would support myself on the initial offer and subsequently asking questions that were detailed and specific. Asking many detailed questions served as evidence of real and reasonable financial and material concerns. I had. Functionally, this worked analogous to asking research questions in the statement of purpose.

34:28 Emily/Anonymous #5: Three. focusing on controllable and movable points made this correspondence actually productive. What are the principal pressure points in my current offer? What tools does the program have at their disposal to improve offers? Often they do not have much wiggle room over a pure stipend amount, but have other programs or fellowships they can leverage. Focusing on effective and real possible offer adjustments helped me to help the professor better understand what they could do to turn an admission offer into an accepted offer. Relatedly, I advise taking advantage of additional funding opportunities, such as filling out optional personal statements, end quote.

Outtro

35:14 Emily: Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by Dr. Lourdes Bobbio and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

Behind the Scenes at the Graduate Career Consortium 2023 Annual Meeting

July 17, 2023 by Jill Hoffman Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily opens up the audio diary she recorded while attending the 2023 annual meeting of the Graduate Career Consortium (GCC) as a sponsor. GCC is attended by university staff members who provide career and professional development services and programming to master’s students, PhD students, and postdocs. Emily shares the insights she gleaned from the keynote and member-generated sessions and the casual conversations around the meal tables and in the hallways. If you’ve ever wondered about the business side of Personal Finance for PhDs, this episode will give you some insight!

Links mentioned in the Episode

Behind the scenes at the Graduate Career Consortium 2023 Annual Meeting

Teaser

00:00 Emily: The basic like, sort of thesis of his book/talk is that white collar workers in America today are attempting to self-actualize through their careers and their jobs. And that’s not good for them personally, and it’s actually also not good for them in terms of their careers. He said a couple of times through the talk that putting all this, uh, pressure and expectation on our jobs is not something that they were designed to bear and they’re not bearing it. I actually found some pretty strong like personal finance themes, uh, peeking into this talk.

Introduction

00:45 Emily: Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others.

01:14 Emily: This is Season 15, Episode 3, and today I’m opening up the audio diary I recorded while attending the 2023 annual meeting of the Graduate Career Consortium as a sponsor. GCC is attended by university staff members who provide career and professional development services and programming to master’s students, PhD students, and postdocs. I share the insights I gleaned from the keynotes and member-generated sessions and the casual conversations around the meal tables and in the hallways. If you’ve ever wondered about the business side of Personal Finance for PhDs, this episode will give you some insight!

01:52 Emily: I’m looking ahead to Season 16 of this podcast, in which we’ll return to our typical long-form interviews. This is your official invitation to please volunteer as a guest for one of the upcoming episodes! Please go to PFforPhDs.com/podcastvolunteer/ and fill out the quick form, and I’ll be in touch over email. I look forward to interviewing you soon! You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s15e3/.

02:25 Emily: Without further ado, here’s my audio diary from the 2023 Annual Meeting of the Graduate Career Consortium. I want to give you a tiny bit of background information before jumping into the audio diary. The Graduate Career Consortium is a decades-old volunteer-run organization of about 450 members, and it’s for university staff members who work in career and professional development. It started with a narrow focus on PhD students and postdocs and has more recently opened up to people who serve master’s students as well. 2023 is my third year sponsoring the GCC Annual Meeting but only my second year attending the in-person annual meeting. I planned for about 200 people to be in attendance, but I think the actual numbers were somewhat lower, in part due to flight delays and cancellations in that particular week.

03:19 Emily: In my business, almost all of the revenue comes from my work with universities, and very little comes from the products I sell to individuals. I vastly prefer for graduate students and postdocs to access my content at no cost to them because the university is picking up the bill. Therefore, when you hear me refer to ‘clients’ in this audio diary, I’m referring to the staff members who contract with me to provide financial education programming.

03:44 Emily: One of my objectives in attending this meeting was actually to collect audio for two podcast episodes that I’m planning to publish in August 2023. I wrote two prompts and asked meeting attendees to respond to either or both in a short sound bit, approximately 30 seconds. In the audio diary, I call these microinterviews. Let’s jump in!

Travel Day: Monday, June 26, 2023

04:09 Emily: I am recording this about midday on Tuesday, July 27th, 2023. Yesterday, Monday was my long travel day from San Diego to Indianapolis. I decided to have a more relaxed morning in San Diego, so I booked a noon flight out of there. This is because it’s a Monday, which means that it’s the beginning of the week and my kids were both in summer camps for, uh, the first time this summer. We were on vacation prior to this point, so I wanted to help my husband get them out the door without also trying to get myself out the door simultaneously. So I left my house a little bit after 9:00 AM and got to the airport. In fact, got all the way through security and to my gate by 10:00 AM which was awesome. I set up at one of those little charging workstation kind of areas and I worked on a couple of final things for this conference.

05:03 Emily: Actually, I had one more final flyer that I wanted to print, uh, once I got to Indianapolis. So during that time I kind of tweaked and finished up the design of that flyer, and then I also started getting on the hova app and being active there and messaging people and welcoming people and posting things. I had two flights, one hop from San Diego to Denver, and then from Denver into Indianapolis. Sometimes I really am inspired and love to work on planes. Um, I never pay for wifi, so it’s kind of a good time to process my thoughts without getting distracted by anything on the internet, but Monday was not one of those days. I just took the time to like relax and rest and I did a lot of reading. The book I’m reading right now is Love Lettering by Kate Clayborne was a recommendation. I’m enjoying that.

05:50 Emily: So I basically just took some me time to relax and get my energy ready for the mad dash that is gonna happen, you know, between Tuesday evening and midday on Friday, we landed in Indianapolis at around 9:00 PM and I noticed, you know, in my Uber from the airport to the conference center, even at 9:30 PM in the summer, it is late in Indianapolis because we are in the bleeding edge of eastern time zone. So that was pretty interesting. All the travel on Monday went really smoothly. I got to my hotel around 10 and I tried to drop off the swag I brought with me. I brought pens and a little tiny flyer to go into the swag bags, but, um, the people who were doing that had left for the day. So I just went back to my room, said goodnight to my kids over FaceTime and read more on my book. Went to sleep around midnight with my alarm set for 7:00 AM for Tuesday.

GCC Pre-Conference Day: Tuesday, June 27, 2023

06:50 Emily: Tuesday morning. I woke up before my alarm at about 6:30 AM I guess I’m just so excited to be at GCC. Um, so I didn’t have to rush of a morning, just got ready and then at about 7:45 went off to find, uh, the person that I needed to deliver that swag to, which thankfully I was able to do immediately. They took it off my hands, they got it into the swag bags right away. Even the registration, um, for the early bird attendees was opening at eight. So I’m really grateful that they were able to do that so quickly. I also took that time to get my booth set up, so I brought with me like a brightly colored tablecloth and a table runner and a little sign that goes on my table. And so I set all that stuff up and while I was setting up, two really good things happened. The very first conference attendee that I saw, uh, we both did a, Hey, you look familiar, where have we met before thing? And it turns out we actually worked together, um, a couple of years ago, but it was all virtual. So of course it’s different seeing someone in person. So it was really great to see that person and I am excited to maybe renew my work, um, without office. And the second person I saw was not someone I had met before, but she works for an office that I have worked for virtually in the past. And when she, you know, figured out who I was, she said, we love you . And it was so great to hear that I thanked her so much. She was so sweet. And yeah, I hope to be working with that office in the coming year as well. Now that I know I have a couple different, uh, champions over there.

08:21 Emily: By the time I got my table set up, it was about 8:15 and I went to check in at the registration desk. They didn’t have my name badge ready yet, but the conference organizer just said I should grab some breakfast and go on in and eat, even though technically I wasn’t like registered for that session. This is again, sort of the early bird, um, first day attendees, they were having a breakfast together, but I took advantage. I crashed the breakfast, grabbed a plate of food, sat down at a table, you know, introduced myself all around, met some interesting people. One person was a wealth manager before starting graduate school. You’re gonna hear from that person on the sister podcast. This one that I’m recording as we go through. In fact, I was really regretting not bringing my recorder with me to breakfast. I wasn’t expecting necessarily right away to be interacting with trainees, so I didn’t have it on me, but I was telling people about the micro interviews for the podcast and several people on the table really interested in it.

09:12 Emily: Um, so yeah, met a wealth manager, um, met a couple other people. I had some things in common with, had a really interesting, although brief conversation with someone about postdoctoral training. And of course the differences between being an employee and being not an employee. They’re especially amplified in your postdoc. So I love talking about that kind of stuff here at gcc and I’m hoping for more conversations like that. After I finished up breakfast at about 8 45, I went back to my room and did a couple of errands. So I went and picked up the flyers that I had ordered for printing to have at my table. So walked over to the u p s store to get those. And then I walked in the other direction to go to CVS to get some supplies for my table. So I got a couple of bowls and some candy just to make people, you know, entice them over and make them feel welcome and maybe talk to me or check out my stuff.

10:00 Emily: Um, so I got that all set up. So all in all, I probably walked about a mile and a half and the air quality today is no good. I think there’s like smoke from a fire or something. Um, so the air quality’s pretty rough. I probably should not have been outside for that long, but yeah, needed to do those errands on foot. So I’m glad that was over. By the time I go back to my hotel, I was really like sweaty and feeling kind of grimy, not so great. So I decided it was a good time for a workout today, Tuesday is definitely my day with the most free time. So I knew if I didn’t take advantage of workout today, I was never gonna work out the rest of the time here. So I did a little workout in my hotel room, took a shower, feel really good and refreshed. And that brings you up to the present. I am recording this right before heading out to have lunch with Katy Peplin from Thrive PhD.

10:52 Emily: It’s 1:30 PM on Tuesday. I just got back to my hotel room after a great lunch with Katy Peplin of Thrive PhD. We have known each other for many, many, many years online only, but this is the first time that we’re meeting in person. I consider her sort of my colleague as like a fellow solopreneur who serves graduate students and postdocs, albeit in a very different way and on a very different subject. But anyway, it was great to meet her and catch up with her. And we had some great conversations about kind of the state of graduate education from our perspectives as sort of like, you know, people used to be in it and now we are outside, but we talked to a lot of people inside of it. And by the time you hear this, you either have already heard a couple of contributions Katy made to existing podcast episodes or maybe they’re coming up. But yeah, we did a couple of recordings. She was my first test case in terms of recording a micro interview at this conference. So really glad to have that done with. I am taking a break in my room right now. I’m gonna do a little bit of light emailing and get back to my booth a little later this afternoon.

11:58 Emily: All right, it is now 8:15 PM on Tuesday, and I’m back in my hotel room for the night. Uh, let’s see. So I was down in the kind of main conference area all through the registration period, which is three to 6:00 PM Um, it was a little slow, but there were, you know, a handful of people who stopped by my booth and introduced themselves. And I recorded a couple of micro podcast interviews during that time. So that was all good. And then things really picked up between six and 8:00 PM which was during the reception. And, um, I did a lot of mingling and networking. Basically my, uh, stance when I come to conferences like this, my attitude is that everybody here wants to meet me and I just need to give them the opportunity by walking up and introducing myself. So as a naturally shy person, this is not at all, uh, comfortable for me, but I push myself outta that comfort zone for the sake of my business.

12:59 Emily: And it’s actually, it can be really fun when it works out. So yeah, I met, um, a couple dozen people maybe this evening, you know, caught up with some old clients or maybe, you know, colleagues of people that I’ve worked with in the past. Certainly met a lot of new people, some of whom are interested in working with me, some of whom are not. And yeah, just got to talk about financial stuff with them. Some of them had really good, um, financial insights from their either time in graduate school or, you know, their current life. Some of ’em had questions, some of ’em had ideas about policy changes, which is the subject of one of the micro interviews. So yeah, recorded a bunch more micro interviews at that time. I think I’m up to 13 for the day. Pretty good for the first day. So yeah, today was a lot of unstructured time, but tomorrow we’re really getting into the meat of the conference and I’m looking forward to learning a lot and getting some new insights and sharing them here in this audio diary. I know I need a lot of rest and a good night’s sleep to be on my game for tomorrow. So yeah, I’m gonna stay in the rest of the night, uh, get ready for bed, do some reading, call my family and go to sleep early, I hope.

GCC Conference Day 1: Wednesday, June 28, 2023

14:14 Emily: Okay, wow, here I am on Wednesday evening at almost 9:30 PM and yeah, I recently finished my first long, long day at the conference, so I will try to do a recap for you now. It’s been a really great day. I woke up at six, managed to get in about 20 minutes of yoga before I needed to shower and get ready for the day. And, uh, breakfast opened at seven 30. It was from seven 30 to eight 30. And as a sponsor, my objective is to be at breakfast the whole time and sit at least a couple different tables and just meet and talk with as many people as I can. So I did manage that. Um, was at breakfast for an hour, I believe I sat at two different tables. Um, I made some like pretty decent connections at one of them in particular, some people I’m gonna follow up with.

15:10 Emily: And that was really exciting immediately after breakfast was the welcome to the conference. Um, and also the Wednesday keynote, the keynote speaker was Simone Stolzoff, I hope I’m pronouncing that close to correctly. And he recently published his first book called The Good Enough Job, Reclaiming Life from Work. And that was kind of the subject of his talk. I thought the keynote was really great. It’s always exciting for me to see, uh, other professional speakers engaging in their craft and try to take some, you know, tips away from what they’re doing. And yeah, I thought he had a good, really good mix of, um, speaking about personal stories from his life, drawing in stories from his book, um, relating to the audience, like the specific, um, subject of this conference was definitely tied in with like all of his themes and giving us some exercises and time to talk and reflect with one another.

16:09 Emily: So from what I could understand, the basic like, sort of thesis of his book/talk is that white collar workers in America today are a attempting to self-actualize through their careers and their jobs. And that’s not good for them personally, and it’s actually also not good for them in terms of their careers. He said a couple of times through the talk that putting all this, uh, pressure and expectation on our jobs is not something that they were designed to bear, and they’re not bearing it. I actually found some pretty strong like personal finance themes, uh, peeking into this talk. Probably not that surprising. Apparently the author has an undergraduate degree, dual degrees in economics and poetry, and then he has a graduate degree, I believe in journalism, and he also worked in tech and has lived in San Francisco. So yeah, not that surprised to see that theme coming through, like pretty strongly.

17:12 Emily: But his talk definitely reminded me of the aspect of the fire movement, the financial independence and retire early movement that is, uh, emphasizing that when you want to retire early or retire at all, um, you really have to prepare during your working career and separate your identity as a person from your job, your identity as a worker, um, in preparation for that retirement date. Because if you go into your retirement still with your identity really wrapped up in your career and your job, you’re gonna be very lost and probably very unsatisfied, um, until you can get that sorted out in your retirement. And so it’s much better to do that ahead of time, maybe even find more satisfaction in your job when you’re not putting all that pressure on it, um, before you actually retire early. And then you’re not, they say a lot in the fire community.

18:01 Emily: You’re not supposed to be retiring from something like a job you really hate. You’re supposed to be retiring to something, something you’re really looking forward to doing, uh, once you’re no longer working your job. But what Simone was talking about today was more a a little bit more about people who see their profession as their calling and maybe some people who hate their jobs and wanna get outta that, you know, previously saw their careers, their calling. But yeah, more of the danger of identifying too closely with your career and even potentially being exploited by your, um, employer or by your industry more at large, because you’re in one of those professions where it’s assumed that you’re, you know, getting all this satisfaction out of your work. So of course you don’t have to be paid that well. So nonprofit work education, of course, government work, these kinds of areas.

18:50 Emily: So Simone ended the keynote with like five really good takeaways that are both for, you know, all of us in the audience personally as well as, you know, those vast majority of people in the audience unlike me, who are career advising professionals, you know, to help advise their students in postdocs. And one of them that I really liked was actually the last one, and it was to diversify your identity. So diversify, like add to the number of areas of your life from which you can draw meaning. And I’m definitely going to reflect further on, you know, the messages from this book and this talk and how they apply to me personally as a self-employed person who has, um, you know, chosen my business and chosen my profession. And I definitely feel like it’s a calling and just how all of this, all of these concepts get wrapped up for me and how they’re maybe a little bit different or a little bit similar with me being my own employer.

19:49 Emily: So that’s my homework following this keynote, and it was really enjoyable. And yeah, I’m really glad to have been introduced to this author and, uh, his take on this topic after the keynote and a break in which, you know, I’m, again, always trying to be networking during these free times. Uh, we went into the first two concurrent sessions, so they’re called the member generated sessions. So basically you have a choice among, you know, four or five different, um, sessions that you might attend at a given block of time. So we got two in the morning. So the first session I attended was titled Strengthening Networks and Career Readiness Post Documenting Committees. And the second one was charting Our Path at the Crossroads of Career Readiness Support. And I won’t go into all my takeaways from the sessions that I went to, but in general, the things that I’m listening for during this conference are, you know, to try to gain some insights into the, the format of programming that, you know, they seem to, you know, think is successful in their, um, career services kinds of jobs, because I would like to take those best practices into my business and of course suggest them to my clients. So the three formats for financial education that I’m currently offering my clients are live in person, live remote. Those are both for like seminars and workshops and stuff. And then I also have a variety of workshops that have been pre-recorded, so it’s more of a flipped classroom model. And so I’m trying to glean, uh, what other people are doing, whether are they going back in person, you know, are they seeing engagement? Are people really using pre-recorded resources? And this past year has been a really hard one, it seems for everyone in terms of levels of engagement for, you know, this type of programming and also for my programming. So yeah, we’re all trying to sort through it together, but it seems like the time and everybody is tired and everybody is burned out after the pandemic and everybody’s, you know, sick of whatever. And so, uh, it’s difficult for everyone, certainly.

21:41 Emily: Something I’m also looking for in taking note of are resources that I can use, like I wrote down, uh, like a report from the National Postdoctoral Association that I should read, and one from the National Academies of Science, engineering and Medicine. So resources like that that I can go to utilize on my own afterwards that are gonna give me more insights into the communities that I serve and today’s trends. Next on the schedule was lunch. And it was thankfully a very long lunch period. It was like almost two hours long, so we had box lunches, so I grabbed a box lunch, sat down at a table, uh, they were really heavy into their career conversation, so I did not actually get a word in and a little bit awkward. But yeah, I didn’t contribute to that conversation at all. Just really enjoyed listening to it. And after I was done eating my lunch, I just excused myself and said I had enjoy listening to everyone. And yeah, I was a bit awkward, but I headed back up to my hotel room to charge my devices. And then once they had charged a bit, I took a, you know, a small break, went back down to the lunch area, and then the second table I sat at, I was really able to engage with the couple of people there. In fact, when I sat down, they were talking about home ownership and the rising cost of rent and how the faculty and staff at universities just do not, uh, get how difficult it is living on a grad student or a postdoc type income with these rising cost of living and, you know, housing crisis kinds of costs. And so that was a really interesting conversation to step into. And I ended up talking with both of those people for, um, quite a while about various topics. And I recorded some more micro interviews. So I felt like that was a really nice way to spend the end of my lunch. Oh, and at the end of that lunch, I found out after that whole conversation that one of the people at the table had already knew who I was because she had seen me speak at MSU like 7, 6, 7, something like that years ago, um, when she was a postdoc there.

23:35 Emily: In the third member generated session in the afternoon, I listened to, uh, three Lightning talks, so like three eight minute talks in a row. And the fourth session I attended that afternoon was titled PhD Progression Micro-Credentialing for Navigating the PhD and Beyond. And this was actually presented by Dr. Sasha Goldman from Boston University. And I had the pleasure of working with Sasha a couple of times. Her office hosted webinars with me during the pandemic. And so we had a little bit of a relationship and I was so excited to see what she was presenting that she’s been developing over the past. She and her office had been developing over the past several years, which is this micro-credentialing program. And she really took us behind the scenes and how she made it. And again, this is all in like the career development area. Um, and it just was so inspirational. Well, first of all, it’s very impressive , and if you are a graduate student at bu, I really hope you are gonna take advantage of this because it seems like an amazing resource, um, to yeah, to help you get ready for your future career. And Sasha also said that, you know, this is free and she wants it to be open to lots of other universities. So I don’t know how fast that rollout is going to be, but, uh, if you have the opportunity to take this, um, I’m gonna go ahead and highly recommend it. And actually, Sasha told me later that they have a badge on personal finance inside the program from which they link to some of my like free resources, like podcast episodes and stuff I believe that I’ve produced in the past that was nice and flattering that they had done that. And they also have a badge for financial literacy with like, sort of a, a business twist on that business, financial literacy. So again, if you’re at BU and you’re a grad student or you’re at one of the institutions that this is gonna come to in the near future, wow, I really hope you take advantage of this. And it was really inspiring to me as well, and thinking about, oh, would like a micro-credentialing program potentially be a good fit for me when I’m doing this financial education stuff, um, versus like an online course. And so it really got my brain percolating about like a different way to help people, uh, master, you know, the skills within, within personal finance. So anyway, I was really excited to have attended that session, um, and really proud that my resources, a couple of them are, you know, being included in this awesome, awesome program.

25:55 Emily: One other note about, again, how I approach, uh, networking is like, I’m just always introduce myself to people. Like if we have a minute or two before a session starts, like I’m introducing myself to the person next to me, if I’ve met them before, I’m saying hi to them, um, you know, checking in. Of course, sometimes these things turn into pitches. It’s pretty naturally, um, for, you know, for working with me. And, and sometimes they don’t, and either way is fine. Um, but yeah, I’m just, it’s just such a great place to meet people because just about everybody here is like a past client or a potential client of mine, and I just have such good connections with them.

26:31 Emily: Late in the afternoon about 4:15 PM they went into what they called their regional meetings and gatherings. Now these are for GCC members, and I am not a member , but they’re, they have the country divided into like seven, um, regions. And so I just decided to go into the southwest region, including Southern California, which is where I live, and just, uh, you know, check with the organizer, was it okay if I attended? And they said yes. And it was really just a social hour. And for the Southwest region, um, pretty much most of the time was taken up playing this game. And the game was that, uh, the organizers had come up with some, uh, questions, questions about what is your preference and, you know, is your preference A or B? And we would, um, move to different parts of the room depending on if our preference was A or B. And then, uh, within that group we would decide what was our best argument for A or for B, and then tell that argument to the other group. And nothing got resolved after, it was not like a debate, it was just, uh, here’s our argument, here’s our argument. But it started off pretty light. So the first question was, is your preference to eat ice cream or is your preference to eat cake and moved through some other areas? One really kind of funny one was, would you rather camp in a beautiful location or would you rather stay in a luxury hotel? And the one that got a little contentious was, would you rather drive everywhere or would you rather walk or bike everywhere? And some of these questions were like, the answers were really obvious to me, but there was always a debate around it. And anyway, it was kind of a fun way to, you know, meet and interact with some other people who live, you know, in California and Arizona and, uh, nearby states So that was cool.

28:20 Emily: Next we had a block of free time. I used it for more networking, again, some more recording of micro interviews. And then I took like a five minute break in my hotel room to change out of my dress shoes into sneakers, um, to go to the evening reception, which started at 6:00 PM And the evening reception, which included dinner and drinks, was in this place called the Punchbowl, which was really fun, I guess was kind of like a bar atmosphere, but there were all kinds of games there. There was a bowling alley as well as a karaoke room, ping pong tables, and a bunch of smaller games as well. And they put out a lovely dinner for us. It was, um, like, make your own tacos. So I mostly just got food and sat and ate and, you know, talked with people. Um, and I talked with a few different groups over the course of my time there. Met some really, uh, interesting people, had some good conversations, recorded a couple more micro interviews, uh, made some good connections. People I’m gonna follow up with, not just about like work, but about like future collaborations. And I met another person who has recently gone full-time into self-employment like I am, uh, but you know, was a, a longtime member of GCC and it was really exciting to meet her. Oh, and I met a legend in the field who I’d never met or spoken with before and who is retiring. So I guess this was my last opportunity. So that was really cool. Oh, and I was also really surprised and flattered. Um, one of the people I met at the Punchbowl, um, I’ve only maybe exchanged an email or or two with her, but she is very aware of my work apparently, and, um, congratulated me on the success I’ve had with my business in, you know, the last few years and asked how it was going and everything. And even said that she points people to my website as an example of, um, you know, a self-employed person’s website, which, ugh, I’m so like, kind of embarrassed by my website. Sorry, y’all. Uh, I was considering a revamp of the website for this summer, but I kind of decided in the late spring that I had spent enough money already this year on professional development and didn’t really want to make an additional financial investment, at least not yet. So anyway, uh, kind of embarrassed by that, but also just really pleased again, and, and flattered that, um, you know, she has been following what I’ve been doing and, and, and thinks highly of it. So yeah, that was really great to hear. Um, stayed there for about two hours and then walked back to the hotel with a group, um, around 8:00 PM back in my room, like eight 15. And my evening since then has been a little more yoga, uh, downloading these micro interviews to my computer so I can save them recording this audio diary. And pretty soon I’m gonna be saying goodnight to my kids and reading and turning in because I have another early day tomorrow.

Commercial

31:14 Emily: Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, frugality, increasing income, or student loans, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer seminars and workshops on these topics and more in a variety of formats, and I’m now booking for the 2023-2024 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, or postdoc office? My seminars are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/speaking/ or simply email me at emily@PFforPhDs.com to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

GCC Conference Day 2: Thursday, June 29, 2023

32:32 Emily: All right, it is about 6:20 PM on Thursday. I’m back in my hotel room for a break after a pretty long day, but there’s still more day left as iI’ll tell you about in a few minutes. Today was another really successful day, and I’m so glad I decided to sponsor this conference again. So my alarm went off at 5 45 today, which is like no mean feat for someone who normally lives on Pacific time. Uh, and I actually went to the hotel gym for about a half an hour workout, saw some other people from the conference there and back to my room, got ready. And of course, like I told you yesterday, I was at breakfast by seven 30 when it opened and just, you know, talked to the people for the next hour. I sat at two different tables at breakfast today, and one of the tables in particular, we had such a great conversation. One person at the table asked me my origin story for how, you know, I I got into this area and started this business and everything, which I’m always happy to share. So then the conversation led into, well, what is the, you know, biggest issue or obstacle that graduate students have with their finances? And of course, I said, and other people around the table said, well, they’re just not paid enough. I mean, that’s the first thing, uh, which yes, agree. And, but then actually someone else brought up something that I very often talk about in my seminars for prospective graduate students, and she said this was her personal experience as an entering graduate student. Just the idea of being paid to get a PhD is so flattering that you don’t really consider to carefully whether it’s a living wage or enough money to be comfortable. Um, and this person’s PhD is in the humanities. And so, you know, we talked about that idea for a while as well, and that led into, you know, negotiating and advocating for your worth and all that good stuff.

34:40 Emily: After another, welcome to the conference. We had our Thursday morning keynote, which is by Dr. Katie Kearns, titled Not just Career Crossroads Social and Emotional Aspects of Grad and Postdoc Development. And Dr. Kearns was speaking from her, um, experiences more in like the teaching and learning area. I didn’t connect with this keynote as much to be honest, but she said one thing that kind of stuck with me, which she was saying this in relationship to, um, her experience teaching. It sounded like first year undergraduate students, uh, year after year after year. And, uh, having the experience of, you know, answering the same, uh, types of questions and, and having to do the same kinds of trainings over and over again. And, and personally having the realization that, oh, right, like, I’m getting older every year, but they’re always 18 years old. Uh, but anyway, what she said about that was maybe, you know, the, the problems that they’re having and the training that they need that they’re experiencing at that time in their lives, maybe that is developmentally appropriate. And so I, I’m gonna chew over that a little bit, like how I can apply that to like the financial realm and, um, not that I really like get frustrated or anything with like, repeat questions, but like, I want to think about what is developmentally appropriate for a graduate student to go through, especially one who’s entering right out of college and what kinds of, um, what kinds of skills they perhaps already have by then, and which of the skills that they should be working on.

35:56 Emily: After another slight break, we got into the next member generated session and the one I attended was called Pathways and Crossroads at the intersection of events, equity and engagement. And this group of presenters was out of Harvard Medical School, and they’re actually more former clients of mine, hopefully future clients as well. And they described, I might not be using the right words for this, but the way that they organize and advertise their programming and they put on a lot of events. Um, so the way they organize their events and also their resources so that it’s easily accessible by the people that they serve in the medical school. And it was really quite impressive to me to hear about the development of like the web-based tool that they’re using so that people can again, find these resources and events and then also how diligent they are in collecting evaluations and standardizing those across all the programs. Cuz that’s something I’m really thinking about right now is how do I, um, improve what I offer and understand whether people are getting out of it, what I hope that they’re getting out of it, um, and how I can kind of do better in that evaluation realm. And again, like I said yesterday, I’m listening for do people have best practices around attendance and engagement, um, in terms of the events that they’re putting on. And a again, still hearing, nobody has a magic formula to, um, get through to students and postdocs right now. And it’s difficult kind of, uh, across the board.

37:24 Emily: The next session I attended was, uh, revolutionizing career services in the digital age, engaging students for 21st century success, more on the same theme. And this, um, session was actually done by Archer Career, which is one of the other sponsors of this event. And, um, specifically their co-founder and CEO Pam Schilling was the one doing most of the presenting. And it was a nice session because it was a balance of, you know, hearing from Pam about her insights, especially in the ed tech space, and also doing some exercises, uh, personally and then also with, you know, my, my neighbor who I, I got to know through the exercises, which was really nice. Um, and so it, it allowed me to do some reflection even though I’m a little bit, you know, to the side of, of Pam’s intended audience. It allowed me to do some reflection on the formats that I’m offering. And I really meeting the needs of, um, you know, the people I’m working with and what, what could I do? This is called ideation. Like what could I do if there were no constraints? Like budget was no constraint, time cons was no constraint. Uh, what would I do? So I was specifically thinking about my, uh, tax education work when I was going through these exercises, and it’s definitely given me some food for thought that I’m going to continue to think about over the course of the next few months because I’m already reevaluating, uh, these programs actually. So really good timing for this session for me.

38:40 Emily: After that, we had a lovely buffet lunch, um, actually a very long lunch, and I took advantage of this because while people were waiting, um, in line to get their food at the buffet, I kind of went down the line and asked a few different people if they would go ahead and record their micro interview with me right then, which a few people took me up on and I had some good conversations. So that was actually a good strategy, although of course I ended up at the end of line and got my food last. But it was really delicious. And again, a long lunch. We had some time for conversation around the table, and then they did a recognition, um, session. So recognizing all the members of the graduate career consortium who have served in the past year, especially those who are, um, coming off of leadership roles and sometimes going on to other leadership roles, and also honoring two people who have contributed a lot to GCC over sounded like about the past 15 years. As a non-member of this organization, it was great for me to get some more insight into what exactly all is going on here. Like, what are all the things that GCC does because I’m not, uh, you know, I, I see a very narrow slice of it. So this was a really good time for me to just learn more about the organization.

39:47 Emily: And after lunch, I had a very lovely conversation with, um, someone about postdoc benefits and the lack thereof and how postdocs should be considered employees. This is a theme. Many people talk to me about this over the course of this conference. The last member generated session that I attended in the early afternoon was a really special one because it’s actually the one that I as a sponsor got to introduce. So the session was titled at the crossroads of parallel planning, integrating fellowship applications into graduate and postdoc career advising. And when I, as a sponsor, I was given a list of, uh, sessions that I could sponsor in advance, and this was my number one choice, and I’m so glad I got it because to me, the the connection is, is very clear. So what I basically said at the beginning of the session was, you know, we’re gonna learn, hopefully some best practices throughout the course of this session on how, um, you could help your graduate students and postdocs apply for fellowship funding. And hopefully as a result of you implementing this at your campuses, there will be much more fellowship money flowing to your institution, and specifically a lot more people being funded on fellowships for the first time. And, uh, when that happens, there are tax implications. And so then I got to kind of pitch my tax education stuff. I have a new seminar that I’ve developed and I also have, um, my ongoing, um, deep dive workshops that are in the flip classroom model. So I gotta say a little bit about that and then introduce the speakers. And the session was incredible. It was wonderful to learn what they’re doing over at Vanderbilt, um, to help, uh, prepare people for, for example, I think they’re doing, they’re doing a lot more than this, but for just one example, help prepare, uh, graduate students to apply for the NSF G R F P. And so they are doing boot camps and the whole process starts in like the May before, um, the application is due, you know, the following October-ish. And it’s a very long cycle of working with the applicants and also working with their letter writers, and they, they, they’re doing what they call bootcamps over the summer. So it’s like cohort groups where you have that like accountability, um, and peer mentoring and also expert mentoring to, uh, yeah, get these applications into tip chop shape. And, and based on the data they showed, these bootcamps seem to be very effective in getting the applications, you know, up higher percentage of them towards the funded stage. But another thing they emphasized, which I really liked was how really applying for fellowships is a professional development exercise. It’s not merely about winning the fellowship or not winning, winning the fellowship. It’s a huge accomplishment just to apply. Um, and you learn so much and it’s so applicable, transferable skills, et cetera. Um, just from doing the application process alone, and especially an intensive one, like the one that they’re describing and that they actually celebrate at an event at the end of the year, everybody who applied for fellowships, um, and they don’t frame it in terms of, you know, you got it, you didn’t, it’s just everybody who applied, you know, accomplished this amazing thing. And I, I actually participated in a little bit something like this when I first applied for the NSF G F P back when I was at the NIH for my Postback irta. Um, but I definitely did not utilize this kind of resource when I was a first year graduate student. And I certainly wish that I had, I don’t know if it was available to me, um, if it was, I, I didn’t access it, but it seems like an awesome idea that, uh, many universities should be following suit. I’m really glad that they presented this, um, information in the session and that I got to sponsor it.

43:17 Emily: The last event of the afternoon today was what they called a showcase session. So it was, um, posters from various people and also, um, posters from each GCC committee to show what they’ve been doing over the course of the year. And I basically use this as another kind of networking opportunity and also opportunity to record my micro interviews, kind of doing both. So it was really, um, it was a really good time for me and I got to talk with a lot more people during that period. And yeah, that was great. I even hung around for quite a while after that session, kind of officially ended to talk to the last like few stragglers and again, get a couple more interviews. I did have someone have a, not totally unexpected, but fairly strong and interesting, uh, reaction to one of my prompts. Um, it’s the one talking about what policy would you change? And so this person, and very kindly by the way that this person was warning, um, her colleague maybe don’t answer that question, like, go for the other prompts, like, maybe don’t answer this prompt because, you know, if anything is construed as like criticizing this colleague’s, uh, current employer, um, you know, that could be bad. She could ha face repercussions or even lose her job. I don’t know if that, that might be a little, little bit extreme. But, um, basically just, you know, you’re saying who you are and who you work for maybe don’t be critical of the university that you work for in terms of their policies. So they had a little kind of debate about that. Ultimately, the person, um, did not contribute to that particular question. Um, I definitely think it’s a legitimate concern, but it was just a little, you know, a little disappointing to me that people don’t think they can speak freely to criticize even legitimately, even, even gently, even nicely, um, criticize a policy of their employer, not even like a person, but a policy. And by the way, that the policy this person was, um, going to put on record but didn’t, was like very reasonable. totally, totally reasonable change that I’ve said this one many times myself. Of course, I’m my own employer and I’m not gonna fire myself for saying that sort of thing. But anyway, that was a pretty, um, interesting reaction and I certainly hope that no one participating in that episode gets any blow back. I don’t think they will. But anyway, I, I really hope it doesn’t happen and I’m really grateful to people who were willing to answer that question and kind of stand, uh, behind their opinion. Um, I’m glad that they either think their employer is reasonable or they, um, at least think their position is strong enough that they wouldn’t be kind of threatened by that. So that was an interesting interaction regarding these micro interviews. Okay, I’m gonna wrap up because I am heading out to dinner in a few minutes. I’m going to NADA here in Indianapolis, which was highly recommended. So I’m going with, um, nine other people from the conference and yeah, hope to do more of the same, of talking with people and maybe getting more of micro interviews and we’ll see just doing more of the same through this conference, which has been again, so, so enjoyable.

46:19 Emily: Oh man, it’s now 10:40 PM , uh, let’s see. I went out to dinner with a group of people from the conference. There were nine of us in total. I left at about 5 45, got back well to the hotel, maybe nine 15 or so. Stayed around chatting for a few minutes. Uh, probably got back to my hotel room about an hour ago. Uh, dinner was really, really lovely. Um, you know, talked with people walking over to the restaurant and walking back, uh, more networking and so forth. But, uh, we were at the restaurant for about two hours, so we really had a nice long dinner and I got to talk quite a bit with all the people, um, sitting around me. We talked about it, it was a little bit more, uh, relaxed and less sort of professionally oriented than the rest of the conference. So we definitely talked about some personal stuff like, uh, the vacations were going on this year and, uh, uh, parenting. And I talked with this one person about this, um, science fantasy trilogy I read recently by NK Jemison. Turns out he’s really into, uh, that other, and we chatted about it quite a bit and it was, that was pretty fun. And uh, I made him promise to bring his, uh, tabletop role playing game based on, uh, this certain trilogy series, which that’s, I asked him to bring it to GCC next year. Maybe we’ll play, it’s not my kind of game, but I’m willing to give it a shot cause I really did like this trilogy. Um, anyway, and, uh, some people sitting around me also definitely asked me about work and, and also just more about like my business, you know, not just what I could do sort of in partnership with them, but how I do what I do. And, um, yeah, that was really nice to have those kinds of conversations as well. Um, yeah, this is definitely a nice relaxed, um, atmosphere and element of, uh, this conference. And of course I recorded a few more, more micro interviews for my collection and, uh, yeah, it was a really, really good, although long and it’s certainly late now, good long, um, nice evening out and I’ve already said goodnight to my kids. So I am just going to read a bit, uh, actually finished Love Letters yesterday and today I’m starting the Southern Book Club Guide to Slaying Vampires by Grady Hendrix. Kind of another random recommendation I found online somewhere, but, uh, we’ll see how it goes. I’m definitely into the, uh, lighter reads at the moment after reading that NK Jemison Trilogy. Um, yeah, so I’m gonna just read a tiny bit and go to sleep cuz I have to be up relatively early again tomorrow morning to pack and check out before the final half day of the conference.

GCC Conference Day 3/Travel Day: Friday June 30, 2023

49:09 Emily: Okay, , this is my final, um, live entry of the audio diary of my conference. It is about 11:00 PM Pacific on Friday, June 30th. So this was the last day of the conference and I was surprised that it has ended up being the longest day, I think. Um, so I’ll go through it pretty briefly cuz I’m awfully tired at this point. Uh, my day started at 7:00 AM Eastern and I let myself not work out and sleep in a little bit this last morning because I knew it was a travel day. And so got up at seven, got ready and got down to breakfast at eight. And similar to other days between eight and nine, it was basically a networking breakfast. I believe I only sat at one table this time. Um, but I had some really nice conversations with the people there, some people who I hadn’t yet met at the conference, which is great. I was of course trying to meet everyone, but, um, didn’t quite get there, but I certainly got to, I would say at least over 50% if not 75% of the people. Um, yeah, so I got some final conversations in over breakfast and then there was between nine and about 1130. Um, a few different activities went on, but I would say the one that was of most note, um, was the panel on. Um, I don’t have the title in front of me, but it was basically a keynote panel, uh, with four panelists on how to, uh, better support the international graduate students and postdocs, um, you know, in this career services area that the conference was themed around. Um, and so of course I didn’t get, you know, the, the some of the specifics and technicalities that were discussed and that are not totally relevant to what I do, but certainly it was a great reminder to me on the importance of inclusion of those international graduate students and postdocs and the importance of, um, calling out, um, specifically when there’s content that’s, um, just for them that’s been placed in there that is specific to their experience. So I thought of a few examples with my content, um, of when I talk about, um, how international students with postdocs can get started with investing, um, while they’re living in the US of course, regarding my tax programming, um, what is specific to non-residents is solely for non-residents. But I’m sure if I thought about a bit more, I could come up with a few other examples and I wanna incorporate those into my, um, into my talks to just make sure that international students and postdocs know that they are yeah, being taken into consideration that I am, uh, speaking to them as best as I can. So that to me was like the biggest kind of takeaway of the morning. Oh, and by the way, not just for international students and postdocs, but all kinds of different, um, you know, let’s say underrepresented groups or first generation, um, grad students and so forth.

52:00 Emily: Um, okay. And then the other kind of fun announcement from this last little segment of the conference was that next year’s conference is going to take place in Philadelphia. So you can’t probably hear it in my voice right now cause I’m awfully tired, but I’m very excited about going, uh, back again and sponsoring again next year in 2024. Okay, so the conference kind of officially wrapped up, um, around 1130 and between about 11:30 AM and 1:00 PM I was, um, just sort of having my last like, conversations with people. There were a few people who I wanted to catch, um, before we all went our separate raise. Some people that I’ve known from previous work and some, um, who I just met this time around. So, for instance, I had an old mentor at Duke, I wanted to say hi to, um, it turned, I, I learned during that, um, international student postdoc panel that one person at the conference was on the board of the National Postdoctoral Association. So I grabbed him and wanted to talk with him about some maybe ways that I could work with the npa, which had been brought up to me by multiple times throughout the conference by other people of that possibility. Um, and of course I wanted to thank Annie Maxfield once again for kind of orchestrating the sponsorship, uh, my sponsorship of this conference and telling her that once again, just like last year I was so happy with how things went and that I definitely wanna sponsor again next year. So, you know, keep me on list, keep me informed, um, and all of that.

53:23 Emily: And then between about one and 3:00 PM I got really lucky. I thought I was gonna be spending that time pretty much on my own, just, you know, packing up my booth and going to the airport and I did pack up my booth, but I went and sat down with someone who I saw sitting on her own, um, who I hadn’t met yet. And it turned out that she was another sponsor of the conference. Um, and that we had some things in common. So we were just having lovely time chatting and getting to show one another. She’s also a solopreneur like I am, although she’s been in business a lot longer than I have been. Um, and in a different area. Um, and then, uh, we were also joined by Katy Peplin Thrive PhD. So my conference kind of book ended by, uh, spending time with Katy, both at the beginning and the end. So it was lovely. We spent a couple hours together. We had lunch, we chatted about business. And yeah, that was a really, really nice, um, session as well. And it turns out that, um, myself and this one other person who I’d recently met, we were on the same flight from Indianapolis to Las Vegas. So we actually headed to the airport together, got to continue talking. That was all lovely, um, and just spent time together and actually ended up sitting next to each other, uh, on the flight. And so we had a wonderful conversation, but during the flight I was telling her that I was quite tired already and needed a rest, but I couldn’t quite fall asleep on the plane. So I ended up reading, um, the book that I picked up. Uh, I think I have the title to write the Southern Book Club’s Guide to Vampire Slang. Um, so I was really into that book, so I wanted to continue reading it, um, while on the plane. And then when we got off the plane in Las Vegas, it turns out that my next flight from Vegas to San Diego also had two other people from the conference on it. Um, both of whom were from U C S D. And so we, and our flight was delayed also, uh, by about an hour and a half or two hours. And so we had dinner together, got to talk so much, um, about what they do and what I do and just getting to know each other and continue that conversation at the gate. And again, lovely, lovely time and really nice to decompress in a more like social and informal way at the end of the conference. Um, and then during my last little hop from Vegas to San Diego, I continue to read my book. I think I’m like 75% of the way through it, and it’s only been two days. This is a very fast read, um, very enjoyable and uh, that brings me just about up to now. So yeah, except for that slight delay in my second flight, um, the travel has been pretty smooth, although again, it has been a long day. And this is definitely a note to myself. Um, I do often try to justify based on flight times, um, staying after conferences and events like these until the next day. Like, I don’t like to have my travel day be the same as the last day of the conference because I like to take time to decompress and rest and maybe even get started on the massive to-do list I have, uh, based on the events of the conference. But I just couldn’t justify it to myself for this particular one, given that it ended by noon on a Friday and it was on Eastern time and I was going back to Pacific, blah, blah, blah. So I decided to travel home this day, but really, really note to myself. Give myself that extra time, uh, just spend the extra money and stay the extra night in the hotel and, um, really be able to come back like kind of better rested and stronger, um, from the conference in this date I’m in currently. So thank you all for listening to this audio diary. I hope it gave you some insight into this really special time in my life and my business, which is when I get to attend these conferences. And, um, yeah, my experiences as a sponsor and what I learned and what I’m taking away from the conference and uh, yeah. Yeah. Thanks for listen. Bye.

Outtro

57:01 Emily: That is the end of my conference audio diary. I would say this conference was very successful for me. In the end, I noted about three dozen potential clients to follow up with. I recorded 54 microinterviews, well exceeding my goal of 40, and invited one person on the podcast for a full interview. I also gleaned many ideas for organizations to partner with, resources to access, and formats for my financial education. And I had a great time! So I will definitely be back again as a sponsor next year in Philadelphia. On the date that this podcast episode will publish, I’ll actually be at another conference as a sponsor, the Higher Education Financial Wellness Summit. That conference is more about my own professional development and keeping up with my field and less about networking in comparison with the GCC Annual Meeting, though I’m still planning to record microinterviews and follow up with potential clients. If you are interested in hearing more about what I learn from the conferences I attend, please let me know! I may share in a future podcast episode or email if it’s of interest.

58:13 Emily: Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by Dr. Lourdes Bobbio and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.