podcast

Using Data to Improve the Postdoc Experience (Including Salary and Benefits)

February 11, 2019 by Jewel Lipps 1 Comment

In this episode, Emily interview Dr. Gary McDowell, the executive director of Future of Research. Future of Research is an advocacy organization that uses data to empower early-career researchers. Gary outlines the ongoing work at Future of Research before diving into the details of their recently published study on postdoc salaries. Emily and Gary discuss the complexities around categorizing and counting postdocs as well as the interesting results from the data Future of Research acquired by Freedom of Information Act requests. Current postdocs can contribute to this ongoing project by submitting their salary and benefits data to the Postdoc Salaries database.

Links mentioned in episode

0:00 Introduction

1:07 Please Introduce Yourself

Dr. Gary McDowell is from Northern Ireland and Scotland. All of his undergraduate and postgraduate education was completed in the United Kingdom. He moved to the United States to become postdoc. First, he worked at Boston Children’s Hospital, then he worked at Tufts University in the Boston area. As a postdoc in the United States, Gary became interested in the scientific system itself, such as setting scientists up for success and producing scientists, not just science. He experienced the frustration that many people feel with the scientific system and its hyper competition.

Now Gary is the executive director of the nonprofit Future of Research. Their mission is to empower early career researchers with evidence to help them change the research system and the enterprise they experience.

3:00 Can you give us an overview of Future of Research and the organization’s work?

Gary is the only staff member of Future of Research. The board of is comprised of twenty early career researchers. The organization originated with a conference to bring early career researchers together to discuss ways to reduce hyper-competition in biomedicine. They held conferences around the country and realized the need for a group that has these conversations. The nonprofit provides data and evidence to early career researchers to help them make better choices and to educate the rest of scientific community of the realities our generation is currently experiencing. Their work is done by the board and volunteers.

Future of Research has worked on two major projects which came out of local meetings. The project “Who’s on board?” aims to get more early career researchers into leadership positions, starting with scientific societies. Through this project, Future of Research seeks to generate a network of future leaders for scientific organizations to tap into. They are working on a project to address mentoring, because it is one of the biggest concerns of early career researchers. Junior faculty often ask, “How do I find out more about how to mentor and manage people?” Junior faculty are expected to be mentors, but don’t know how to. Future of Research will host a summit in Chicago to bring together people who work in this space and who research mentoring. They will discuss what grassroots action they can take to make sure institutions are putting mentoring at the center of their interests.

Future of Research has been responsive to needs that arise. They are beginning a project to examine peer review and address this phenomenon of grad students and postdocs essentially ghostwriting a peer review report that is then submitted to a journal under someone else’s name. This is a problem of appropriate scholarly recognition, but at the same time the academic community hears there are not enough reviewers. Journals are crying out for more reviewers, but there is lack of transparency about who’s doing reviews, creating barriers to journals having names of potential reviewers. Surveys suggest that principle investigators are not trained in peer review, their practices come from assumptions, and there is generally lack of clarity of expectations in the peer review process.

Future of Research has just finished a postdoc salary project. It started when they formed the nonprofit. At the time, there was a change to federal labor law being proposed. The change was going to affect postdocs by raising their salaries, or by causing institutions to have postdocs clocking in and out and tracking time. Future of Research watched the push to raise postdoc salaries, and started following what institutions would do in response. They had the question about what are the actual salaries that people in postdoc positions have?

8:34 What is your recent paper and where can people find it?

The title of their paper is “Assessing the landscape of U.S. postdoctoral salaries.” It’s open access in the Studies in Graduate and Postdoctoral Education, Emerald Insight Publishing Groups.

9:07 What is a postdoc?

According to Gary, the PhD is when the trainee is learning how to do science, how to carry out research, how to do experiments, and analyze,. The PhD is for learning the nuts and bolts of being a scientist. The postdoc is intermediate, after the PhD and before the professor position. Gary’s opinion is that a postdoc should be considered as a period when you should be thinking about your own research goals and how to take those foward. Postdocs should be learning under the mentorship or apprenticeship of an investigator. Postdocs should be learning how to manage a group, mentor people, manage budgets, write grants, and lead a team.

However, Gary says that the postdoc is more likely a period of further research. Many people change field and get experience in another research group. Postdocs are often trying to get a certain number of published papers. Postdocs are trying to demonstrate they can succeed in a different lab and accrue credentials to get a faculty position to start as a professor.

Emily adds that there are eleven different common titles under which postdocs can be hired. There is a discrepancy between how employers see postdocs and how postdocs see themselves. What level of awareness do universities have around their own postdocs?

11:55 How was the idea for a project to assess postdoc salaries formed? What question were you asking?

When the team at Future of Research was looking at policies that were being updated in response to labor law, they realized that these policies at an institution don’t tell us necessarily what people are getting paid. Though the institution has a policy about postdoc salaries, actually paying postdocs that amount requires adherence to policy and someone following up to enforce policy. The team saw a pre-print paper by Rescuing Biomedical Research, another nonprofit, which looked at National Science Foundation data on number of postdocs and concluded that the number of postdocs in decline. They questioned whether there is truly a decline, or instead a bubble of people staying in postdoc positions for longer. These questions led them to start the project to collect data on postdoc salaries.

The team at Future of Research found that institutions are doing a terrible job of reporting year to year how many postdocs they had. While institutions were receptive to policy changes, if the institutions don’t know who the postdocs are to begin with, will people fall through the cracks? Will the policies actually be reflected in reality? The institution could recommend salary, but never follow up.

Institutions are also in a constant argument over whether postdocs are employees or trainees. Unfortunately, it seems postdocs are employees when it suits, such as when the institution needs to keep postdocs out of things they need to do for students, but postdocs are trainees in terms of lower salaries and receiving no benefits.

14:18 What position counts as an employee or not an employee?

Gary explains that whether a position is designated as an “employee” is complicated by where the money comes from. Postdocs may be “staff” on a grant, or postdocs may be on fellowships of various kinds. When postdocs are on fellowships or paid directly, they are usually referred to as trainees, typically lose benefits, and the institution says they are no longer an employee. The U.S. Department of Labor created a specification about who is an employee, specifying that it’s not who pays you, it’s the nature of the work. The Department of Labor made this specification because some institutions tried to designate postdocs as fellows to get out of the new labor law. The Department of Labor explicitly sent this message to the National Institutes of Health, stipulating that the NIH had to raise fellowship stipend under the new law.

17:08 What did you do for the postdoc salaries project?

The team from Future of Research wanted to analyze postdoc salaries, but they learned that this information was not easy to find. They carried out Freedom of Information requests at public institutions. They contacted the Freedom of Information or Public Records offices at public institutions, which were legally required to give out data like this. They asked for the position title and salary of everyone who was a postdoc, on date of December 1, 2016 when the new labor law was due to come into effect and changes were likely to happen. This method forces the institution to provide information, and this method served as an internal metric of whether universities know what postdocs are. Certain institutions didn’t know what a postdoc was, and asked Future of Research to explain what a postdoc is. Future of Research cross checked the information they received from Freedom of Information requests with the National Science Foundation data on postdoc numbers.

20:05 What was your analysis of the data from public institutions?

Future of Research had a data scientist on the team, who analyzed the distribution of salaries. They brought out patterns by geographic region, by gender, and by title. They examined what variables were affecting the salaries. Their aim was to assess the landscape and figure out what salary distribution looked like. This could set the bar to work from for efforts going forward.

21:07 What were the broad conclusions of the postdoc salaries project? Was there anything surprising to you?

Gary says they got broad distributions of postdoc salaries. Nature published a write-up that emphasized that postdoc salaries vary wildly by institution. Most people received between $40,000 and $49,999 annual pay. They found that 22% of all their data was within a $25 range around the new National Institute of Health minimum stipend, which was very close to the proposed salary threshold is under the federal labor law. Gary shares that when Future of Research considers the levers they need to pull to raise postdoc salaries, it is a very useful finding that the median salary of all postdocs across the US, regardless of field, was pegged to minimum NIH National Research Service Award stipend amount. The most effective policy lever for raising postdoc salaries in the U.S. is to get NIH to raise the NRSA award stipends.

Emily emphasizes that so many universities go off the NIH minimum salaries, even though it’s just a recommendation, and it’s just a minimum. She points out that this minimum doesn’t take into account different cost of living. Is this the minimum for Bethesda, Maryland, where the NIH is located? Institutions go off this as if it is absolute truth. Gary brings up that in December 2018, NIH raised minimum salary. Now the minimum is $50,000, this amount has been recommended for quite some time. Gary and Jessica Polka, president of Future of Research, are on the National Academies study for the Next Generation Researchers Initiative. They will be releasing recommendations informed by this data.

Gary was surprised by how many salaries were in the $50,000 range. They broke down the distribution by field for a large subset and found no real field dependence for the salaries. People would expect the humanities to be lower, but the humanities were not lower. Gary was surprised by how often biomedical engineering salaries were in the lower end of the distribution. Gary wonders who negotiates, and if there’s a disparity in who’s negotiating. He mentions that talking about money in academia is stigmatized.

Emily created the website PhD stipends with her husband. Now it has over 4000 entries in it. It is a great place to go for prospective graduate students. She has thought there should be the same resource for postdocs. They have started postdocsalaries.com for people to self-report their salaries. Future of Research obtained information from public institutions, but they are completely missing private institutions. Self reporting also provides a check on whether what the institution reports matches what postdocs report. Postdocsalaries.com is a useful self reporting tool, that helps other people compare salaries and gives them the opportunity to comment on issues.

Gary discusses that when he gives a talk at institution, he loves to bring up money. He wants to break the stigma that ‘we’re not supposed to talk about this’ and tell people that this should be one of the questions that you ask your prospective PI. Gary says how that question is answered will tell you a lot about the PI as a person. You should look for someone who responds “I would love to pay you more, we can look into fellowships or I can find opportunities to pay you extra,” and steer clear of potential advisors who say “This isn’t about the money.” This is part of gathering information for your decision.

37:08 What are some action steps that postdocs can take today to improve their salaries, benefits, or working conditions?

Gary says always having data at hand is useful for individuals and groups to advocate. With data, you can approach an institution with the salaries that people are getting in your field, and point out that this is what the policy says so this is the expectation. This is action you can take on the personal level.

When Future of Research compared institutions publicly, there were administrators who could now use the data to say that the institution is being compared to everyone else, if they want to be competitive for postdocs they need to raise postdoc salaries. For groups looking to push for change in an institution, there are a number of lines of evidence. Gary says that comparing with peer institutions is useful. The most recent recommendations are that postdoc salaries should be at least $50,000 then adjusted for cost of living, then for your years of experience.

Listeners should go to postdocsalaries.com to get involved and learn more.

40:56 Conclusion

Negotiating PhD Funding Offers: This Grad Student Did It Successfully

January 28, 2019 by Jewel Lipps 5 Comments

In this episode, Emily interviews John Vsetecka, a second-year PhD student in History at Michigan State University. When John was a prospective PhD student, he attempted to negotiate the stipend and benefits of the three admissions offers he was seriously considering. John shares exactly how he initiated the negotiation process and the outcomes at each of the universities. His negotiation method is well-researched and well-considered and is applicable to many if not most other prospective graduate students. John and Emily also discuss how prospective PhD students should combat imposter syndrome during the admissions process.

Links mentioned in episode

0:00 Introduction

1:05 Please Introduce Yourself

John Vsetecka is a second-year PhD student in the Department of History at Michigan State University. He studies modern Ukrainian history, with a focus on the 1932-1933 famine. Before beginning his PhD program, he worked as a GEAR UP advisor. This is a federal grant agency that works with low income students, called Gaining Early Awareness and Readiness for Undergraduate Programs. He worked in Colorado to help middle school and high school, low income students prepare for college. Before this job, he got a Master of Arts in History in 2014 at the University of Northern Colorado.

2:55 What PhD offers and interview requests did you receive from universities?

When John applied to PhD programs, he applied to eight schools and faced some rejections. He considered four offers, then narrowed his list to three. The first offer he eliminated would have required that he start with MA and work into PhD. Since he already had an MA, he felt he was ready to move on. He seriously considered three offers. He accepted the offer from Michigan State University, where he is now. He visited “University 2” in person for an interview. He had a virtual interview with “University 3.”

4:21 What did you think about the offers from these three universities?

John wasn’t sure what a fair offer was for a PhD position in History. Generally, PhD students are shy about sharing their financial experiences. So he did research and his mentor from the University of Northern Colorado guided him in this process. He talked to other PhD students, who would say they had enough to live on or that they were struggling. He used the websites GradCafe and PhD Stipends. He got a sense of what people were being paid, including their health insurance and fees. From all of this information, he decided two offers were fair and worth considering.

Emily shares an important piece of advice for prospective PhD students is to do your research. Anonymous databases, like PhD Stipends, provide more transparency around these offers. But you should talk to current graduate students, because it’s one thing to look at the numbers, and another thing to get a feel for how it is to live on that amount.

Further Reading: How to Read Your PhD Program Offer Letter

7:54 How did you initiate the negotiation process for your PhD stipend offers?

John negotiated his stipend offers during his interviews. He went to visit two universities in person for interviews, and had a virtual interview a University 3. His first interview was at University 2. During the visit, they have an itinerary and fully scheduled day. The experience is like a whirlwind. He prepared a set of questions for faculty members and set of questions for Graduate Director. With the Graduate Director, he talked about the PhD program as a whole to get their insight. Then he directly asked the Graduate Director if there is any other money available, such as other fellowships, and explained that he has other offers with higher financial value. The Graduate Director is the one that can control the money. The faculty can only put in good word on a student’s behalf. So as a prospective PhD student, you should know who you can talk to and know who you can negotiate with. You don’t need to be afraid to ask tough questions about financial aid.

The PhD program interview was a good time to negotiate PhD stipend offers. John waited until he received all offers to see where he stood across the field, and this gave him some leverage. Negotiating like this is is what people do with any other job. John told the Graduate Director that he had other offers, but he didn’t show them the letters themselves. Negotiating before receiving all other offers and before the interview can seem desperate. But if he negotiated after the visit, it might seem like that offer wasn’t his first choice and he was only negotiating after losing another offer. John also believes that talking in person is the best type of communication. Negotiating in person puts them on the spot.

During his interview visit for University 2, John asked the Graduate Director about the potential for a better financial package. The Graduate Director told John that they would get back to him a couple hours. Later that day, John received an email with a offer for a fellowship package. This showed John that they were willing to work on his behalf. He was surprised by this because he had expected them to negotiate and push back. During the interview visit, the department is most focused on recruitment, so they quickly considered his request and acted on it.

John went into the meeting with a set plan for negotiation. He had a notebook and visibly took notes during the conversation, which indicates that he took the negotiation seriously. Treating graduate school interviews like a professional scenario sets you up for success.

14:35 What new offer did you receive after negotiating?

Because he negotiated with the Graduate Director, John received an offer of a university fellowship instead of a teaching assistantship. The new offer was university-based funding, not department-based funding like his original offer. The university fellowship had different teaching requirements than the department teaching assistantship. It was more money in total, as well as better health care coverage. This showed what kind of control the department and university has over financial awards for PhD students. Even if the university can’t raise stipends, they can cover more fees or provide better benefits.

16:22 What outcomes did you get from negotiating with the other two universities?

John learned that not everyone would negotiate. At Michigan State, he had a generous offer that he was already happy with. Even so, he asked the Director of Graduate Studies at Michigan State about his financial award. The director kindly told him that his original financial award was what the department was willing to offer. John later learned that his department offers different financial packages based on a tiered system, and he was happy with the offer he received.

At University 3, John had a virtual meeting with the department. John brought up that he had offers with much more value than what they had offered him. John says that honestly, he was displeased with University 3’s financial offer. He learned that due to financial constraints at University 3, the department couldn’t offer more money. The department suggested term-to-term options. John didn’t want to be on his toes every semester wondering if he’d get paid. Though University 3 offered paid tuition, the money offered for teaching/research was not enough to even consider.

It’s important for prospective PhD students to recognize that some offers only tell you about the first year, while others present a five-year plan for funding.

19:35 Based on what you experienced, what would you do to negotiate differently?

John says he wouldn’t change much. While he knew negotiation was possible, he personally didn’t know anyone in his cohort group that negotiated their stipend offer. John heard from his advisors and mentors that it’s ok to ask, but you have to know to ask. John says this is one of those hidden things in academia. If prospective graduate students receive multiple offers, this is a chance to use offers against each other.
even if you get one offer, be happy, but if you get more offers you can use them

Emily brings up that often, applicants don’t feel a lot of confidence. They often think, “Who am I to be receiving these offers?” This imposter syndrome deters prospective PhD students from negotiating their stipends and ensuring that they receive the best offer.

22:27 How did you know negotiating your PhD offer would be possible and welcome?

John’s MA program advisor told him how to negotiate PhD stipend offers. First, you have to apply to multiple universities and know their programs well. Second, you need to know who you want to work with. Third, you need to talk with current graduate students. This is the most important advice. If you find their email on department websites, you can email them directly. Fourth, online communities like GradCafe help you connect with people who can help you.

John says that graduate school applicants should treat a PhD position like any other job. John says this profession should not be excluded from the process of negotiation. John’s experience at GEAR UP, where he helped low income students fight for undergraduate school money, showed him that there is a lot of money out there. He says it’s unfortunate so many undergraduates go into a lot of debt, when there are all types of money out there for different skills and talents. John wonders why graduate students can’t have that money too? There are different organizations, based in different fields, but money is out there. He suggests prospective students apply to everything they’re qualified for, but they also ask universities and departments what they can give.

Emily adds that prospective PhD students need to consider cost of living. If you have school A versus school B with higher stipend and in lower cost of living, you can ask the school A’s department what they can do to make the offer comparable.

26:44 Has your negotiation had any lasting impact on your graduate career?

John says the negotiation process doesn’t stop when you receive your final offer. Negotiation is a longer standing issue to think about in the future. At Michigan State, John and his peers negotiate for conference money, travel money, research money for the summer. Some graduate students can’t find money beyond teaching assistantships. Because he considered these benefits in his financial offer, he accepted a position that allows him the time and money to not worry. He has summer funding and he can teach online. For instance, he taught a seven week class online while being in Ukraine for research. He chose a school with an institutional investment. The department is doing well and it is investing in its students. He saw that the department was willing to invest continually in their students. He thinks the investment will continue after he graduates.

29:33 Final Comments

John says prospective graduate students should feel free to reach out to him. He likes to help in any way he can. When you get your offers, the first thing you should do is celebrate, and get a round of applause. After celebrating, look over your financial offer, and look beyond stipend to health insurance and benefits. If you get multiple offers, compare them. Be confident about your acceptance into a program and don’t be afraid to negotiate. Know that you have power in these situations. Even though graduate students often don’t have much power, this is the situation where you do. You have all the power and you should use it while you can.John treated PhD offers like job offers because it’s also a job, in literal and figurative sense.

31:27 Conclusion

Working Hard and Playing Hard as a Grad Student in NYC

November 26, 2018 by Emily Leave a Comment

On this episode, Emily interviews Nicholas Giangreco, a bioinformatics graduate student at the Columbia University Medical Center. Nick’s expenses in Manhattan are relatively high – such as spending over 50% of his net income on rent – but his stipend still allows him to spend on his priorities and still save money consistently. Nick lived very frugally while he was paying off his student loans prior to grad school, and now applies his thoughtful budgeting skills to enjoying life in Manhattan without breaking the bank or detracting from his research.

Links mentioned in episode

0:00 Introduction

1:15 Q1: Please Introduce Yourself

Nick Giangreco is a bioinformatics graduate research assistant at Columbia University Medical Center in New York City. He started his program in August 2016. His post-taxes pay is approximately $1,300 biweekly.

2:58 Q2: What are your five largest expenses each month?

Nick’s top expense categories are rent, health, transportation, and food. His miscellaneous and entertainment expenses are considerably low. He uses a spreadsheet to monitor his spending.

3:38 #1 Expense: Rent

Nick lives in a studio apartment located on-campus and managed by the university. He pays $1,200 for his studio, which is lower than nearby off campus studio apartments that are $1,500 to $1,600 rent. Nick recognizes that he could find housing options near campus for less than $1,200 monthly rent. He mentions his friends who share four bedroom apartments and each pay $600 for their room. Finding a place in New York City is challenging. If you don’t find somewhere on Craig’s List, you may need a broker and to pay the broker fee.

Nick says the majority of graduate students live on-campus. To accommodate the demand for on-campus housing, the university has three tiers of priority consideration for housing applicants. The first priority tier is international students, the second tier is students from outside the New York – New Jersey – Connecticut Tri-State area, and the third tier is students from within the Tri-State area.

According to Nick, living on-campus makes graduate student life easier. Nick has a 15 minute walk to work, and he avoids commuting on the subway. The university gives current residents the first priority to renew leases. Nick plans to renew his lease for his on-campus apartment.

11:38 #2 Expense: Health

Nick spends a few hundred dollars per month for pilates sessions. He sees a personal pilates trainer in the West Village and pays $100 per session. He goes to physical therapy and rehabilitation at the hospital at Columbia. The copay is $20, which adds up since he has an appointment every week.

Nick’s health insurance does not cover his pilates session, but he likes his personal trainer and gets value out of the sessions. He first tried going to pilates classes at the university’s gym for no charge, but he was dissatisfied with the generalized approach of group classes. He wanted something personalized for his needs, so it is his priority to budget for pilates classes.

14:23 #3 Expense: Transportation

Nick estimates that he spends $200 to $300 per month on transportation and travel, or as little as $100 in a month if he doesn’t leave New York City. He puts $20 on his subway card and adds as needed. Additionally, he takes taxis and Ubers to get around Manhattan. Though taking a taxi to the JFK airport can be expensive ($70), the subway takes two hours. He uses Amtrak to go to his hometown, but those tickets add up. He also looks for cheap tickets from Megabus.

18:55 #4 Expense: Food

Nick spends less than $200 per week on food. In his studio apartment, he has a kitchenette which has a stove but no oven. He doesn’t buy groceries that require baking. He buys non-perishables and items that keep well. Some of his go-to items are sweet potatoes, oatmeal, and popcorn. He takes out $20 per week in cash for use at the food trucks, which only accept cash. He buys gyros for $5 and coffee for $1 from the food trucks. He goes to restaurants or diners once or twice a week.

Nick looks for free food from graduate school events. He is part of a Slack group for graduate students in the department, where people share information about free food. He eats food at seminars, lectures when alumni are invited, and club events.

Nick’s kitchenette does change how he approaches his food budget. When he lived in Washington, DC, he lived in a house with a kitchen. He used to batch cook on the weekend and set aside portions of leftovers for the week. He would host friends for meals. In New York City, he doesn’t have room to host anyone and can’t cook very much. He microwaves sweet potatoes and makes rice and beans on the stove. He keeps leftovers from events. He doesn’t plan his food for the whole week, instead he plans by the day. Nick thinks he could plan better, but right now he needs to focus on his PhD work so he needs the convenience.

30:35 Low Entertainment Expenses

Nick says there is a lot to do in New York City. He doesn’t spend much money on entertainment because he does a few cheap activities. He goes to clubs and university events. He sees plays for $10 on the Columbia Medical Center campus. He saw Spongebob the Musical for $30. Though Nick has friends who go out for drinks every day, Nick doesn’t buy much alcohol.

33:30 Q3: What are you currently doing to further your financial goals?

Nick recently paid off all his student loans. Before starting his PhD, Nick lived in DC for two years. He lived a very frugal lifestyle, and took two and a half years to pay off his student loans. Now, Nick is working on his rainy day fund so he can create a financial cushion in his budget. He spends about $2,300 per month of his $2,600 monthly income, so he puts the rest to savings.

Nick keeps a budget in google sheets to log his expenses. He wants to become conscious of his spending habits. He is looking into passive investing approaches and learning about retirement. Columbia Medical Center provides graduate students the option to invest with Vanguard. Though there is no matching offer, he determine an amount to withhold out of his biweekly check. He called the financial office and asked explicitly about this retirement program applicability to graduate students, and he is considering it.

Nick tries to save $100 to $200 per month for his rainy day fund, and wants to increase this to $300 to $500 per month.

39:14 Q4: What don’t you spend money on that might surprise people?

Nick doesn’t spend much money on entertainment or alcohol. He takes it seriously that he is in New York City for graduate school, so he prioritizes his studies and his work. He doesn’t go to Brooklyn or the East Side, instead he goes to Central Park for free and finds cheap shows at comedy clubs. He uses the subway because this transit option is $20 to $30 less than taxis and Ubers. He will listen to podcasts while he’s on the subway.

43:07 Q5: What are you happy with in your spending and what would you like to change?

Nick is happy with his food spending and his entertainment spending. He has a social life and indulges in brunch with friends on the weekends. He wishes he could save more on rent, but he doesn’t want the responsibilities that come with living in a house. Landlord, roommates, and housing infrastructure problems add extra stress that he doesn’t want to deal with. He wants to concentrate on graduate school, and his studio apartment helps him focus. He also appreciates the security in his building, the community and the convenience. He lives on-campus and one block away from the subway. Ultimately, the convenience of the location is worth the high rent.

46:42 Q6: What is your best advice for someone new to your city who is budget-conscious?

Nick recommends living on-campus. He thinks the Columbia Medical Center bioinformatics graduate program pays well. He says the initial payment for first years is nearly $20,000 as a lump sum, which needs to be budgeted carefully. The Columbia Marketplace Facebook group is useful to find free and cheap items. The Grad Talk list-serve helps you find out about free and cheap items as well.

Nick says to enjoy yourself without going crazy, and to be mindful. Anyone considering New York City for a PhD program should know that grad school can be intense, New York City can be intense, but this is a time to work really hard while making good friends and good memories. Nick coordinates a Meetup group and leads an NYC chapter of an international organization. New York gives you access to broader networks and opportunities.

51:38 How do you budget your biweekly pay? How does it compare to other pay structures?

Nick used to work at the National Institute of Health in DC, where he monthly check. The biweekly pay does not change how he budgets, instead he enters his income twice a month into a spreadsheet instead of once a month. He had enough cushion money in his account to manage expenses, and knows that he will get another paycheck in two weeks. His spreadsheet helps him keep track.

55:41 Q7: Would you like to make any other comments on what it takes to get by where you live on what you earn?

Nick says it’s a great time to be a graduate student in New York City. So many people like to visit New York City, so it’s great for spontaneous reunions with friends. It’s easy to get out of the city if you want. New York City offers many opportunities, and you’ll interact with people from multiple universities, companies, and form a broad network.

57:48 Conclusion

Even in NYC, This Graduate Student Maintains a Super Frugal Lifestyle

September 24, 2018 by Emily Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Athena Pierquet, a rising second-year graduate student at New York University in English. In her first year as a PhD student, Athena lived on her $28,000 per year fellowship and save all of her smaller income sources, but her finances are facing a new challenge as she transitions out of subsidized university housing. Despite living in Manhattan, Athena maintains a very frugal lifestyle, minimizing her spending on groceries, transportation, entertainment, and recreation.

Links mentioned in episode

Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Play Music, Stitcher, or Spotify.

Give your feedback on Season 1 and influence the direction for Season 2 through this form.

0:00 Introduction

1:15 Q1: Please Introduce Yourself

Athena is a rising second year PhD student in the Department of English at New York University. She lives in the Manhattan neighborhood Stuyvesant, or Stuy Town. Her overall income was $38,000 from several university sources. Most of her income comes from the MacCracken Fellowship, provided for all NYU PhD students, which was $27,526 this past year. She received a housing stipend of $5,500. Several scholarships and grants made up $4,000 of her income, and short term research contracts made up $1,000 to $2,000.

2:20 How is your income reported for taxes?

For taxes, Athena has to self report the MacCracken Fellowship and her other scholarships to the federal government. The university provides her a 1098-T form for taxes. Her short term research contracts are reported on W-2, but these are a minor part of her income.

4:08 Q2: What are your five largest expenses each month?

Athena’s five largest expenses are rent, food, books and supplies, incidentals, and going out for fun.

4:28 #1 Expense: Rent

Athena pays $1,100 per month for rent. This cost includes all utilities, except for internet. She shares a two-bedroom apartment in Stuy Town with another first year NYU PhD student. The market rate for her apartment is $3,500 per month, but since the apartment is in a university housing complex, the cost is subsidized by the university. However, university housing is only available to first year PhD students, so Athena is searching for new housing in Manhattan.

For her new housing search, Athena’s budget is $1,200 to $1,300 for a room in a three or four bedroom apartment. NYU will continue to provide a housing stipend of $5,500 during her second year, but in subsequent years the housing stipend will be replaced with income from teaching classes. In general, her income does not increase to cover the new housing costs.

Athena saved much of her income from her first year in anticipation of her move into the cut throat Manhattan housing market. To get an apartment in Manhattan, she needs $3,000 to $5,000 available. Securing an apartment requires payment deposits for first month’s rent and last month’s rent.

9:57 #2 Expense: Food

Athena’s food budget is $100 per week. This category broadly covers anything she purchases to eat. She includes groceries, coffee shops, restaurants, and take-out in her weekly food budget. She plans out her meals and makes grocery shopping a priority. She makes almost all of her food at home and describes some of her meals, such as fully loaded oatmeal and hearty, entree salads. Athena eats at restaurants only two or three times each semester. She has several frugal tips for going to restaurants in Manhattan and getting free food from NYU events.

20:30 #3 Expense: Books and Course Supplies

Athena’s spending on books and course supplies is about $300 per semester. Her expenses for books and course supplies are considered non-taxable income. As a literature student, she needs many books for her work. She estimates that if she bought every book she needed or wanted, she would be spending thousands of dollars. She frequently borrows from the library, gets used books, and finds resources online. Nonetheless, this was tricky to budget for because of different needs for different courses.

24:29 #4 Expense: Incidentals

Athena budgeted for unexpected expenses, which she describes as the impulsive book purchase, miscellaneous fees, and spontaneous entertainment. Since she set her budget week by week, she intentionally put $45 each week for incidentals. Typically, she only had one or two unexpected expenses each month. The miscellaneous category is a place to lose money if you’re not careful, in Athena’s opinion.

27:29 Problems budgeting for taxes while on a fellowship

Athena later learned that the $45 per week that she budgeted for incidentals was really what she needed for taxes. When Athena began first year of graduate school, she didn’t know how much to set aside for taxes. NYU does not withhold taxes for U.S. citizens in their PhD programs, so it was Athena’s responsibility to estimate how much she might owe in taxes and plan for tax season. This is a challenge faced by many PhD students receiving fellowship funding.

Further reading: The Complete Guide to Quarterly Estimated Tax for Fellowship Recipients

30:47 #5 Expense: Going Out for Fun

Athena budgeted $20 per week for going out, and spent $280 over one semester on happy hours and other social events. She went to bars with friends about once or twice a month for happy hour, where she would socialize for two or three hours. In her budget, Athena distinguishes drinks at a bar or restaurant from purchasing a bottle of wine or six pack from the store. She notes that at NYU, she has plenty of opportunities to enjoy free drinks and free food at events sponsored by the institution.

Join the Mailing List to Download Frugal Tips for PhDs-in-Training

The download includes 30+ frugal tips for PhDs-in-Training with links to video and additional written content.

You'll receive 1-2 emails per week to help you make the most of your money during your PhD training.

34:36 Q3: What are you currently doing to further your financial goals?

Athena tries her best to live within her means. She only lives off of the MacCracken fellowship, about $28,000, which is her only guaranteed income source for 5 years. She puts her other fluctuating funding sources into savings and does not create her budget from it. Athena has a healthy cash savings account, and every now and then she moves it into an investment account with Vanguard for retirement and index funds that could be used for major purchases in 20 to 40 years. She needs her cash savings for her new apartment, new furniture, and irregular expenses.

38:19 Q4: What don’t you spend money on that might surprise people?

Athena doesn’t spend money on transportation. If it’s less than an hour walk, she will walk to the distance. The $2.75 to take the subway or bus is better spend on coffee, in her opinion. She won’t take cabs or ride share unless she absolutely has to.

She makes use of public spaces with internet access and working spaces, like the New York Public Library. Some people pay memberships to writers’ rooms and co-working spaces, or even a desk at home, but Athena has a list of go-to public spaces to work remotely.

Additionally, Athena doesn’t have a gym membership, and she won’t go to exercise classes. She avoids shopping and costly activities. Though she’s surrounded by high income earners in Manhattan, she reminds herself that she has more important priorities than the high expense lifestyle.

43:56 Q5: What are you happy with in your spending and what would you like to change?

Athena would like to change how she tracks her cash spending. Since some places are cash only, and some only take cards, Athena finds it tricky to document all of her expenditures.

She’s happy with how little she spends on exercise activities. Athena is a long distance runner, so she makes use of the long trails and paths throughout New York City. She has a deeply discounted New York Roadrunners membership, and recommends that others look into student discounts.

47:36 Q6: What is your best financial advice for a new PhD student at NYU who is budget-conscious?

First, Athena says that budgeting and spending conservatively is absolutely a must. Many daily necessities, like laundry and groceries, are more expensive than you might expect.

Second, she says do not buy in bulk! Buying only what you need will save money in the long term, as well as save space in small apartments.

51:17 Find out your summer funding situation

Athena recommends being aware of how you will be funded through the summer. In some cases, you will receive payments for only the nine months of the academic year. Some refer to the first summer after graduate school as the “summer of poverty,” so think about this when you get your offer letter. You may need to save during the academic year to get through the summer, or find summer work. Make plans at the beginning of the academic year.

Further reading: How to Financially Navigate an Summer

52:49 Q7: Would you like to make any other comments on what it takes to get by where you live on what you earn?

Athena says you need to be honest about your financial situation. Seeing wealth around you in NYC does not mean you need to spend like that too, or emulate what you see people doing around you. Athena takes the initiative to suggest more frugal activities, like going to coffee or happy hour instead of more costly brunches and dinners.

Athena does an end of the semester assessment of her budget that she finds highly valuable. She evaluates how she spent her money and considers how she can do better the next semester. It can be difficult to anticipate how expensive things will be ahead of time, so she has gone through a process to try things out and reassess her expenses.

58:00 Conclusion

This PhD Student Paid Off $62,000 in Undergrad Student Loans Prior to Graduation

September 10, 2018 by Emily 2 Comments

In this episode, Emily interviews Dr. Jenni Rinker, a mechanical engineering PhD currently working as a researcher at the Denmark Technical University. Jenni paid of $62,000 of student loans from her undergraduate degree while pursuing her PhD at Duke University. Her average payment was approximately $1,500 per month on a post-tax income of $2,700-$3,000 per month. Jenni shares her motivation for setting her lofty debt repayment goal and the practical strategies she used to accomplish it. After paying off her student loans, Jenni even saved enough money to take six months off from work post-defense.

Subscribe on iTunes!

Links mentioned in episode

0:00 Introduction

1:10 Please Introduce Yourself

Dr. Jenni Rinker is a postdoc researcher at the Denmark Technical University. She attended Harvey Mudd University for undergraduate studies in engineering then went to Duke University for graduate studies. Her PhD is in Mechanical Engineering.

2:28 We’re talking today about your debt repayment journey. Can you tell us about this?

After undergrad at Harvey Mudd in 2011, Jenni had $62,000 student loan debt. She set the goal to repay the full debt during her PhD. She accomplished this goal, paying off the debt in 3 years and 7 months.

3:48 Can you tell us more about what kinds of loans you had?

Jenni kept a spreadsheet, a valuable tool that she used to track her debt repayment. She only had the option of unsubsidized student loans because she comes from a middle class household. At the time she started graduate school in September 2011, Jenni had $62,00 total from nine different loans. Federal student loans from Sallie Mae and Nelnet made up $28,000, at 6.8% interest rates. Jenni’s private student loans came to $34,000 total. Her single largest loan was from Alaska Advantage, a loan of $8,500 at 7.3% interest. She had several low interest (3-4%) private loans from Wells Fargo.

5:54 What was your income during your PhD?

Overall, Jenni’s post-tax income varied from $2,700 to $3,000 per month throughout her PhD. Before she started graduate school, Jenni was awarded the National Science Foundation Graduate Research Fellowship. This fellowship provides an annual income of $34,000 for 3 years. When she started, Duke University offered her income in addition to her NSF fellowship. After the NSF fellowship period ended, Jenni won another external fellowship through the Office of Science that offered $3,000 per month.

However, Jenni started graduate school in debt and did not have any savings or assets she could use to reduce her debt.

10:50 Why were you so determined to pay off student loans during grad school?

Although student loan repayment could have been deferred while she was in graduate school, Jenni was uncomfortable with debt and letting interest accrue. She thought that keeping the debt would limit her choices after graduate school. The student loans felt like a weight over her head that was growing every day, and she wanted the freedom that would come after debt repayment.

Jenni decisively started paying off her student loans as soon as she started graduate school. She saw that her income was higher than her monthly expenses, so she made it her priority.

13:53 How did you pay off your student loans?

Jenni committed to her financial philosophy that the money earned from her job goes to rent, utilities, food, loans and other essential expenses first and foremost. Money for her other interests had to come from side income. Jenni earned extra income as a technical copyeditor. She had private clients and worked for the American Journal Experts. She funded several trips from her side income.

Spreadsheets were Jenni’s most important tool. She had a spreadsheet for each year, where each month had a tab. She calculated that $1,300 per month needed to be budgeted for student loans in order to pay off the debt in 4 years. Her living costs, the “monthly nut,” were $800 to $900 per month. She kept frugal habits, such as rarely going out to dinner.

Jenni implemented the strategy of paying herself first. Right after receiving her paycheck, she made her loan payment so the $1,300 was out of her account immediately and she wouldn’t be tempted to use it elsewhere. However, Jenni paid her student loans instead of building up her emergency fund, which was drained after she needed a car repair.

Jenni paid her loans manually, so she could pay the highest interest loans first. Her biggest loan also had the highest interest rate, so she prioritized this one first. Though she had nine different loans, she focused on paying off one loan completely before paying towards another loan.

Her story is an example of the debt avalanche method. Jenni prioritized bigger loans with higher interest to pay off first. She was motivated by paying as little interest as possible. This is in contrast to the debt snowball method, where a person pays off the smallest loans first, to feel motivated by these easy wins.

Jenni also identified where she overspends. She would take out cash to be more aware of her expenses.

28:23 Did you have any speed bumps during your debt repayment journey?

Though Jenni had one instance where she paid for car repairs, she feels like she got lucky with no major financial setbacks. Paying her student loans was her highest priority, and she ended up paying about $1,500 per month on average over three years and seven months. She paid her loans back faster than she expected.

29:53 How did you feel after paying off your student loans? Did anything change in your life?

Jenni realizes that this is an unusual accomplishment. She posted on Facebook and got many congratulations. At the time she made the final student loan payment, Jenni was still working on her dissertation.

She was so used to immediately using $1,300 for student loans, that she started saving that amount each month for travel. After she defended her PhD, she had stress-free travel for 6 months. She went to Patagonia, Europe, and traveled around the United States. Jenni already had a job lined up, so her travel was a true vacation to celebrate finishing her PhD and repaying her undergraduate debt. Jenni learned that traveling is very important to her, so this experience rejuvenated her and put her in the right mindset to start her postdoc.

34:30 Is there anything you wish you had done differently?

Jenni wishes she had rebuilt her emergency fund after she drained it for her car repair. Overall, she’s satisfied with her debt repayment journey. She balanced frugality with having a good quality of life.

During debt repayment, Jenni allowed herself flexibility for how much she paid every month. In the beginning, her repayment was more aggressive but she relaxed as time went on. She knew that in an emergency, her family could support her and she could pay her parents back for financial help in a tough situation.

38:14 Did this experience affect how you approach personal finance?

When Jenni moved to Denmark, she stopped tracking her daily expenses so carefully and has allowed herself to indulge in treats and go to cafes.

However, her budget spreadsheet is still her most valuable tool. She created her own spreadsheet template that makes sense to her. Jenni briefly considered using software budgeting tools like Mint, but never ended up trying one out. By using her own spreadsheet that she updates manually, she feels like she has more control of her budget. This manual system forces her to actively consider how she’s spending her money.

43:00 What advice would you give to someone starting graduate school with student loans?

First, Jenni recommends that graduate students with student loans set realistic goals. Your income must be more than your expenses, and you still need to have a good quality of life. Figure out your “monthly nut” and compare it to your income. Then, identify your problem areas in your expenses.

Second, she encourages graduate students to reevaluate their financial strategies. As graduate students, we have to educate ourselves about finance and learn from our mistakes. If your financial strategy is unsustainable, you can change it.

46:37 Final Comments

Jenni’s inspiring story is applicable to anyone in any kind of debt repayment scenario. The financial strategies Jenni used can help graduate students pay off their own student loan debt.

47:47 Conclusion

This Grad Student in DC Prioritizes Living Alone and Investing in Mental Health

August 27, 2018 by Emily Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Christina Padilla, a PhD candidate at Georgetown University in human development and public policy earning $38,000 per year. Christina shares her top five expenses as a DC resident: rent, groceries, eating and drinking out, regular monthly expenses (i.e., phone, internet), and the copay for her therapist. They discuss Christina’s tips on leveling up her housing, meal planning, living car-free, and finding frugal fun in the city.

Subscribe on iTunes!

Links Mentioned in Episode

0:00 Introduction

1:18 Q1: Please Introduce Yourself

Christina Padilla is a PhD candidate at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. She is in the psychology department, and specifically in the human development and public policy program. Her research focuses on early childhood, parenting, and early education.

Christina completed her undergraduate studies in Baltimore before taking a 2-year research position at the National Institute of Health (NIH) in the D.C. area, and then stayed for graduate school.

3:11 Q2: What are the top expenses that you have, either in a typical month or in the last month?

Christina’s top five expenses per month are rent, groceries, eating and drinking out, other regularly occurring monthly expenses like phone and internet access, and a copay for therapy, which she started in the fall.

4:15 Expense #1: Rent

Her first year at the NIH, Christina lived in Maryland because it was closer to her lab and her rent was only $600-$700 plus utilities, but she hated being so far outside the city. In her second year at the NIH, she moved to a group house and paid $800 a month. However, it was a very old house and required Christina to have four roommates. She lived there for three years, including her first two years of graduate school, and then decided it was worth it to live by herself. She had saved money to be able to live in a studio.

Now, Christina is budgeting with an income of $38,000 for the fall 2017 through the summer; after that, her funding situation is uncertain. She allocates $2,700 per month, and of that, rent is $1,350. For a place in D.C., that is not very expensive. Christina lives alone in a rent-controlled studio apartment in a very desirable area outside of Dupont Circle.

Transportation was once one of Christina’s top expenses, and she would spend $150 a month to get to and from campus. She does not own a car: all the costs were for public transportation. At present, she is able to walk to campus, and now spends about $40 every other month on Metro costs. Georgetown also has a free shuttle between the area she lives and the university campus.

9:13 Is the building that you’re living in popular with students?

Another graduate student living in the building recommended it to Christina when she moved out, but Christina took a different unit because the cost was significantly less due to rent control factors. A number of other Georgetown students do live in the building; there are quite a lot of young people and quite a lot of long-term residents, but very few people in between.

11:43 Expense #2: Groceries

Christina spends about $200 per month on groceries on average. Unless she is going to a social event, she tries to cook all of her meals at home instead of ordering out. Christina has a small kitchen, which it is in a separate room from the rest of the apartment. She does not have a dishwasher or garbage disposal, but all other major appliances are included.

13:11 Have you always tried to cook at home, or is that something you decided to do along the way?

Cooking dinner at home is a habit Christina has always had; eating out was only for special occasions, rather than a casual habit. Even when she was at the NIH, she would cook every day. Her savings enabled her to take a lengthy trip to Europe before starting graduate school—Christina and another woman compared their spending and found that a major factor in Christina’s savings for the trip was that she was not ordering out, and the other woman was ordering food almost every day.

16:17 Do you have any comments on how you keep food costs down in a high cost of living area?

Christina also allocates $200 per month for eating out, but her ability to stay within both budgets was enhanced when she started meal planning. Planning meals for a week and only buying what’s necessary for that week has helped her stay within her budget. Christina enjoys cooking, and so cooking food and freezing it is both relaxing and budget-friendly.

On Sundays, Christina will make breakfast and lunch for at least Monday through Wednesday, and cook again on Wednesdays. Previously, she would try to prepare meals one day ahead of time but would often find that she was too tired or busy to do so, and ended up having to cook in the morning or buy meals. By planning meals ahead and cooking in bulk, Christina saves herself money and time.

19:13 Expense #3: Eating and Drinking Out

Christina sometimes feels that $200 per month for eating and drinking out may be high, but acknowledges that D.C. is an expensive city to eat in—one brunch could cost $50 or $60. Brunch and happy hours are both popular in the city, and the costs of each can add up. The $200 also includes going out for celebrations and other social events. Christina avoids going out to eat unless it is with other people so that it stays a treat instead of becoming an expensive habit.

21:21 Expense #4: Other Regular Monthly Expenses

Other regular monthly expenses make up the fourth largest category for Christina, which amount to about $100 per month. She pays $35 each month for her phone, $43 for internet access, $13 for dental insurance, and $5 for Spotify, which is cheaper with a student membership. The cell phone price is for the cost of the actual phone; the one thing Christina’s parents still pay for is Verizon service.

22:12 Expense #5: Therapy Co-Pays

In the fall, Christina was having a difficult time with her dissertation. The $200 per month she now spends on co-pays were originally going into savings and have transitioned into payment for counseling. Christina mentions that all graduate students need support but sometimes struggle with talking about it or feeling justified in seeking out help, and enjoys talking about counseling to help de-stigmatize it. She considers it an investment in herself and getting through graduate school in one piece.

23:24 Will you be finishing grad school soon?

Christina has an external fellowship for $30,000 for two years, and her department gave her an extra $8,000 to match everyone else’s stipends. She will continue to receive the $30,000 stipend but does not know whether her department will award the $8,000 again. She hopes to finish in January of 2019. She may drop her counseling sessions to once or twice a month instead of each week.

25:33 Q3: What financial goals are you working on?

In addition to the five categories and other spending, Christina saves at least $200 per month. $100 goes into a mutual fund with Schwab and $100 goes into a Roth IRA that she set up last year.

Christina does not get a very good interest rate on her savings account and chose to invest in a mutual fund because of an episode of the John Oliver Show “Last Week Tonight,” from which she learned it would be a good option for her savings goals. She has not decided whether to use it for a mid-life expense or for long-term savings, such as a down payment on a house or for retirement.

28:03 Q4: What don’t you spend that much money on that might surprise people?

People are often surprised by how little Christina goes out to eat. Many people in graduate school tend to order in a lot for convenience. However, many people bring lunch to campus, so Christina regularly eats lunch with other people in her lab, and bringing food has not been an isolating experience.

29:24 Q5: What are you happy with in your current spending and what would you like to change?

Christina is overall happy that she is staying afloat and able to save money even though she lives in an expensive city. Many of her friends have “real” jobs where they make more money, and it is hard to compare herself to them, but she is pleased with being able to save at all. She tries to think positively about being paid to get a degree and be happy that a stipend is available, that tuition is covered, and that she has no student loan debt.

31:43 What advice would you have for someone who is starting in their first year at Georgetown?

Christina’s number one piece of advice is to be honest and reflective with yourself about your priorities in terms of housing. It’s not always possible to live in a luxury building in a great location without roommates and have low rent. There are housing options for all priorities, but you have to be honest about what you want and to be ready to make sacrifices in terms of money, location, or roommates. A lot of people live outside D.C. in Virginia or in Maryland, but many of those areas have become as expensive as D.C., so comparing prices is important.

Georgetown does not offer much graduate student housing, and what’s available is about equally expensive as other housing options if not more. Georgetown does provide shuttles, however, because the campus is not connected to the Metro line.

35:30 Any closing thoughts or other comments about living in D.C. on $38,000 per year?

D.C. has a lot of free activities, especially in the summer. There are many free outdoor concerts, and all of the D.C. museums and monuments are free to visit.

No matter where you live, setting a budget and sticking to it is immensely helpful. Christina uses the free version an app called Good Budget, which allows you to create spending categories and record your transactions. The app will show a green bar decreasing as you spend throughout the month. Christina found that Mint was not helpful for her in curbing her spending and now uses Good Budget instead.

Trying to keep up with people who have “real” jobs and salaries is impossible, but it is possible to politely take charge of social situations. For example, Christina recommends offering to choose the restaurant where friends will gather and selecting a lower-cost option. Other people may not recognize that their budget constraints might be looser than a graduate student’s.

Christina opts for casually steering events with friends towards more affordable activities, and will occasionally decline to go to things if they are too expensive. She has found that most people are fairly sensitive to graduate student budgets and have no problem with less expensive activities and options.