In this episode, Emily interviews Madeline Hebert, a 5th-year PhD candidate at the University of Connecticut and married mother of a toddler and newborn. Madeline shares how her money mindset has changed over the last several years, from poring over every last expense in her budget to investing in frugal strategies and increasing her income through fellowships and paid projects. She also details the systems from which she has drawn financial support, chiefly through state childcare benefits and her grad student union. The total value of these benefits is so high that Madeline chose not to pursue a $100k one-year fellowship because it would have negatively impacted her family’s bottom line.
Links mentioned in the Episode
- PFforPhDs Quarterly Estimated Tax for Fellowship Recipients (Individual Purchase)
- PFforPhDs Quarterly Estimated Tax for Fellowship Recipients (University Sponsored)
- PF for PhDs S16E1: How This Grad Student Budgeted for Having Her First Child
- Host a PF for PhDs Seminar at Your Institution
- Emily’s E-mail Address
- PF for PhDs Subscribe to Mailing List
- PF for PhDs Podcast Hub
Teaser
Madeline (00:00): I found myself applying for like every single award, grant, um, scholarship. And before I would let imposter syndrome affect it a lot more being like, oh, like I’m not qualified or I don’t fit that or whatnot. But instead now I’m like, I need money. I’m taking every single opportunity I can get.
Introduction
Emily (00:21): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.
Emily (00:51): This is Season 25, Episode 2, and today my guest is Madeline Hebert, a 5th-year PhD candidate at the University of Connecticut and married mother of a toddler and newborn. Madeline shares how her money mindset has changed over the last several years, from poring over every last expense in her budget to investing in frugal strategies and increasing her income through fellowships and paid projects. She also details the systems from which she has drawn financial support, chiefly through state childcare benefits and her grad student union. The total value of these benefits is so high that Madeline chose not to pursue a $100k one-year fellowship because it would have negatively impacted her family’s bottom line.
Emily (01:41): Let’s talk fellowship taxes for a minute here. These action items are for you if you recently switched or will soon switch onto non-W-2 fellowship income as a grad student, postdoc, or postbac; you are a US citizen, resident, or resident for tax purposes; and you are not having income tax withheld from your stipend or salary. Action item #1: Fill out the Estimated Tax Worksheet on p. 12 of IRS Form 1040-ES. This worksheet will estimate how much income tax you will owe in 2026 and tell you whether you are required to make manual tax payments on a quarterly basis. The next quarterly estimated tax due date is September 15, 2026. Action item #2: Whether you are required to make estimated tax payments or pay a lump sum at time tax, open a separate, named savings account for your future tax payments. Calculate the fraction of each paycheck that will ultimately go toward tax and set up an automated recurring transfer from your checking account to your tax savings account to prepare for that bill. This is what I call a system of self-withholding, and I suggest putting it in place starting with your very first fellowship paycheck so that you don’t get into a financial bind when the payment deadline arrives. If you need some help with the Estimated Tax Worksheet or want to ask me a question, please consider joining my workshop, Quarterly Estimated Tax for Fellowship Recipients. It explains every line of the worksheet and answers the common questions that PhD trainees have about estimated tax. The workshop includes video content, a spreadsheet, and invitations to at least one live Q&A call each quarter this tax year. The last live Q&A call for this quarter is today, Monday, September 14, 2026. If you want to purchase this workshop as an individual, go to PFforPhDs.com/QEtax/. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s25e2/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Madeline Hebert.
Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?
Emily (04:08): I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today a repeat podcast guest, Madeline Hebert. She is a rising fifth year PhD candidate at the University of Connecticut and was last on the podcast in season 16, episode one, talking about having her first child very early on in graduate school and how she budgeted for all of that and figured out childcare. And we’re gonna be revisiting some of those same topics, but in, you know, a few years further along in this episode because Madeline has now had her second child during graduate school, um, and has, you know, that’s really changed her thinking about, um, things related to money. So Madeline, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. Will you please introduce yourself a little bit further for the audience?
Madeline (04:50): Thanks. Yes. Um, my name is Madeline Hebert. I am a fifth year graduate student at the University of Connecticut, and I have two children now. One who is two and a half, will be three in August and the other one was born on, in February. So I’m really excited to be back here. I study LGBTQ youth, um, and interested in public policy, intervention prevention for them. And then my husband, he’s a telemetry worker. He’s also now a student himself and he has been working an hourly rate and now is about to go down to, um, about like per diem, what they call, is what they call it.
Emily (05:28): And what’s he studying?
Madeline (05:29): He is, um, he just got entered, uh, accepted into a dental hygienist program. It’s at the local community college and we’re really excited about that because yeah, he’s really excited to get to change career um, transitions basically.
Parenthood and Its Impact on Your Money Mindset
Emily (05:43): Awesome. Well, let’s get into it. Our last interview fell at a really like interesting stage because you, at the time of the art interview, you were pregnant, um, with the first baby. And obviously, you know, that, that stage is what it is and you’re a parent already, but now you’re a parent in a much different way <laugh> having two babies out in the world in childcare, you know, you have to balance everything with your, your work and all that. So just, you know, give us your thoughts now about how your view of money has changed, you know, in the past few years, um, with these life stages.
Madeline (06:15): I think that like at the beginning, I used to be super really anxious about money and I was doing like a l – I was following like a lot of the budgeting and itemization and looking back behind and, um, and that was really useful for the time. But now with like two children, it’s much more difficult and stressful, I think, to do like all the item line by line and to take the time and have the time to be budgeting like that. So I find that instead thinking about money in a very global sense, being like, okay, I know how much I’m generally going to be making this month and we try to stick to that expenditure within the month and we kind of more so like maybe once a week I’ll look at my app and be like, okay, like we are either above or below what I think that we should be for having spent for that month. But that has also reduced a lot of financial anxiety and has also helped a lot with being able to manage like, okay, are we able to spend what we need?
Madeline (07:10): Also thinking about money as like, okay, I have to buy things in a very cost effective way. So we signed up for a Costco membership, which at the upfront is a bit more expensive and we’re very fortunate to be able to cover that cost because in the end we’re ending up saving a lot on buying in bulk and buying shelf stable foods and buying, um, things like freezer, large amounts of meat that we can freeze and use throughout the month kind of thing. So we kind of now shop monthly. So that’s also kind of affected my, the way that I think about money. And then like literally just finding every single way to make money, um, from a kind, not from a side hustle perspective, because again, like when you have kids, your time becomes very precious and very limited I have found, but at the same time it’s much more intentional. And so instead it’s more kind of like, not even passive income, but making use of a high yield savings account and taking advantage of entry, um, entry modes for the fact that I travel at least twice a year for conferences, I invested in a travel, um, the, a travel credit card that is a little bit, again, pricey at the upfront, but then I essentially am being paid to have it because of how much I’m using it and the benefits that it’s giving me and the, um, travel credits that it’s given me. And so things like that, um, I’ve been taking advantage of. Um, I’m also been trying to find, I found myself applying for like every single award, grant, um, scholarship. And before I would let imposter syndrome affect it a lot more being like, oh, like I’m not qualified or I don’t fit that or whatnot. But instead now I’m like, I need money. <laugh> I’m taking every single opportunity I can get. I’m trying to, I find myself having to try to hop onto every single like project that I have the capacity for and I have to be much more intentional about which projects I sign up for because again, that time’s limited and I’ve had to turn down some opportunities in fact because they were not paid. I have to be like very upfront and being like, I’m sorry, but I’m looking for a paid summer, um, project to work on and to help with. But that’s also led to me reaching out to other faculty who I might not have reached out to before because I knew that they had funding and I tried to find ways that, in which my own research could fit into their project. So this way I could also be of hireable help in the, in other words.
Madeline (09:34): So that’s been kind of interesting because that relationship with money I’ve found has also affected my relationship with my research in trying to be like, okay, I need a project and a research interest that helps me also create a path forward in careers that are more popular in the higher paying industry. So moving towards a public policy research prevention intervention space has allowed me to be looking into more government type jobs and looking into public policy related jobs, public health jobs. So that’s something that was also kind of a, I am interested in it, but also because the way of my relationship with money now I’m moving towards that as well.
Emily (10:17): I think all of those shifts that you just mentioned are really positive and ones that probably other grad students, whether they’re parents or not, probably need to be moving in those directions. I mean, understanding that like your work and research has to have some market value, like yeah, of course it does, like especially moving out of graduate school or out of academia. I wanna take some of the things that you just mentioned piece by piece, um, because again, I do think these are all like really positive evolutions, um, maybe for you motivated by becoming a parent, but also again, something that other people can learn from whether they’re in that situation or not. And the first one you mentioned was about like sort of getting out of the weeds of, um, super detailed tracking or like daily basis kind of tracking and getting up into the, um, how can I have a longer term view of my money and of frugality so that you are, as you were kind of saying, like it’s okay if something costs more upfront if it’s able to help you spend less over time. And that is something that I think maybe can take some time for people to make that leap because they do need to get out of the like s- serious paycheck to paycheck cycle to be able to do something like purchase a Costco membership or, you know, pay the upfront annual fee for a travel credit card. But it is possible for a lot of people who to start taking that longer view. So I’m really, um, glad that you mentioned that. Do you think, because I have also made the shift dur – I also made the shift during graduate school. Do you think it was necessary to be in the weeds for a period of time before making that jump? Or do you think, mm, I could have just taken this like higher level view from the beginning and that would’ve been better?
Madeline (11:58): I think that was really beneficial. I’m not entirely sure if it was necessary per se, but I do think that for me it was really beneficial because it helped me get a good grip of like, okay, this is how much I can spend. I tend to think of very black and white thinking. So saying, okay, I have $20 to spend this week on snacks really makes me aware of like, okay, how much have I gone to Starbucks this week? But then it also gives me this freedom to say, oh, if I want Starbucks, I have like X amount of money still to set aside to spend on myself. Whereas now I’m like, okay, like I know that I want to go and spend money on myself, but now I’m a little bit more like, okay, like, well, where are we a little bit and want to check in with my husband about it? And then, but because I have a husband to also kind of like talk about finances with, it has made it to where we do have to talk about like, okay, like, do we want to set aside a little bit of money or make sure that we have spent roughly an allocation of particular amount of that monthly bu – higher budget? But because he works an hourly job, so some months he’s only worked like a full three weeks instead of four weeks or we travel for two weeks, like that is a constantly shifting number. So it helps us to not be like, oh, well, this week we don’t have this much or it reduces a lot of the anxiety around there by not having that, um, minutia or minute, um, examination of the numbers.
Emily (13:24): I think probably you’ve also most likely dialed in your larger necessary expenses, um, and you’ve become very familiar with them over the time that you’ve been in graduate school so that, um, you don’t have to pay as much attention to those really, really tiny expenses if the, if the large ones are dialed in appropriately. I know we’re gonna talk about childcare a little bit later on, but can you share with us how, like, your housing has changed over that period of time?
Changes In Fixed Expenses: Housing, Food, Internet, & Streaming Services
Madeline (13:51): It’s funny that you mentioned it because the housing changed after the childcare changed. So originally we were living in a one bedroom, um, apartment and it was about 1,400 starting off in every year it would increase about $50. So that was a pretty, like, manageable increase. And, um, that has now actually increased to an apartment that is about 1,800 now, now 1,900, just recently, 1,945 for our two bedroom apartment, two bathroom apartment, which, which has honestly been, like, much higher quality of life for us though. Um, but that changed. Our food has been still roughly around 300, some months 400 to 500, but we don’t go out very- I find that we swapped going out to, like, a nice restaurant for more Taco Bell and McDonald’s kind of restaurants, and maybe once a month we’ll actually go out to a real restaurant. Um, and so those kind of expenditures have changed. They, but it still feels like we’re going out to eat. It still feels like, oh, we’re not, like, cooking every single night. Um, but my husband makes a very good point that very often we do cook, probably more so than a lot of our peers that he finds. Um, and so, like, just about every night he cooks or we have a, like, leftovers. Um, and so that, um, has gone down. Trying to bundle, like, expenses for, like, streaming services usually. He’s got, like, for example, Disney through his phone bill. I realized that our internet service was doing, like, another deal. It had increased after, like, that two-year promotional contract, but then I found out that I’ve, every now and then I check. And so by doing that, I found out, “Oh, wait, they’re doing a new promotion that’s actually cheaper than what I’m currently paying. Let me get in on that, and now I pay less again for my internet.” So s- some small things like that. Those are our biggest expenses, that electricity, water. We don’t really spend much on, on other things. Those are kind of the big bucket spending things I find.
Emily (15:52): Yeah, it’s really good that you’re paying attention to those fixed expenses, like, you know, phone bill, internet bill, these kinds of things. Like you said, you just have to touch base, like, maybe once a quarter, you know, one, once every, you know, twice a year, something like that. And then you can find those opportunities. And it doesn’t have to be the daily checking in, right, like you sometimes would do with your variable expenses. Now, there was another, um, sort of big category you mentioned earlier in your answer, which is about, um, increasing your income has become much more of a priority for you, um, having the children. And again, I think this makes a lot of sense that the general grad student evolution, and of course, thinking forward to your next stage in your career. I really like that you mentioned that you used to feel some, um, imposter phenomenon and now you’re just like, “I have to get through it because I just need the money. I just have to apply anyway.” Um, can you expand on that a little bit more, like, maybe how you look for opportunities?
Finding Opportunities to Earn Extra Income During Grad School
Madeline (16:44): My department, they tend to do, like, a little weekly announcement being like, “So-and-so, congrats. They got some sort of award.” Um, it’s been making me, like, they, we also get these, like, daily digests that are super annoying, honestly, but they also offer, like, a rewards and fellowship, scholarship opportunities. And I, every single day now, I s – just scan it being like, “Hmm, is there anything that looks like it might be worth my while to go look into?” Um, if I hear that so-and-so got, like, an assistantship with a professor, I’m like, “Hey, um, can, I was wondering if you think that they might have a little bit, if they might be still looking for people or, um, is there, like, anything that might need assistance on?” Um, just, also just remembering, okay, like, every single time I’m reminded that there’s yearly of scholarship awards, I apply for every single one that I can. And I try not to get in my head by being like, “Oh, well, like, do I deserve to apply for, like, the financial need-based scholarship? Do I, um, is it bad that I’m asking for government assistance?” So, like, I know that my state offers, um, financial assistance for winter heating, even if your heating is included in your rent. It offers assistance for diapers, it offers assistance. My university has, like, a parent resource event once a semester, and I go attend that and I make sure I grab some diapers and some, and some wipes and stuff. So, like, not trying to get the shame and the guilt and all that encumbered, and instead being like, “Okay, like, these are things that I need to take advantage of so that this way, like, I don’t have to spend these expenditures later on.”
Emily (18:16): I’m so glad you brought that up, because it’s actually a theme I’ve been exploring in some other podcast interviews recently, and also in the writing that I’m doing about kind of getting past the mental blocks that might tell you this assistance being offered is not for me, or I do not deserve to avail myself of these resources. Um, and just, like, from an outside perspective, like, you haven’t even mentioned how much money you make or anything, but, like, you’re a PhD student, your husband’s now, like, working part-time and going to school. Like, you all are investing in yourselves, in your education, in your professional development right now, and that’s something that our society should support. And for goodness sakes, you got two children too. So, like, let’s support this family as you’re all growing and developing, and that will make you so much more successful and able to, you know, contribute so much to society, both of you, all four of you, um, in the future. And so, it just makes sense to me that, like, that people make these resources available and that you should take advantage of them, um, and as much as possible, get out of your feelings about it. Like you’ve said, that you’ve really been trying to, like, push past. So, like.
Commercial
Emily (19:25): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, budgeting, or designing your financial life, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer live workshops, asynchronous online courses, and cohort-based programs on these topics, and I’m now booking for the 2026-2027 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, medical school, postdoc office, or postdoc association? My workshops are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.
Connecticut’s Government Assistant Program: Care 4 Kids
Emily (20:54): Let’s move on to then talking about, like, what are the sort of helps and, and systems and resources that you have noticed around you, especially since becoming a parent, um, and just go through them, like, one by one, because other people may, you know, see similar things in their own surroundings.
Madeline (21:10): Perhaps the biggest number one support, um, system besides my family itself is probably, um, this, honestly, the state government assistance and that exists within Connecticut. So the Connecticut, um, offers a, what they call Care 4 Kids program, which is a state subsidy program for childcare that the, the kind of effect that it’s had, it has reduced a childcare that normally is, like, around at least 1400 up to $2,000 per kid down to, like, $200 for our family. Um, and so, like, you can hear, like, just how enormous of a difference and shift of financial, um, freedom that that allows, and financial flexibility that that kind of assistance allows. Um, so that has been just monumentally incredible for allowing us to be able to move into our two bedroom apartment, to be able to continue buying healthy foods for ourselves, to make sure that we’re able to sustain ourselves, not only in just not, to where we’re not just surviving, but we’re actually being able to still thrive to some degree. And so –
Emily (22:14): May I ask, um, because on the last interview that you gave, I, I believe you were talking about how you had chosen, like, a campus affiliated daycare. That I think maybe was sliding scale, if I’m remembering correctly. Um, did you not know about the state system at that point? Or, like, when did that s- When did you kinda, like, plug into that?
Madeline (22:31): That’s a good question, because I don’t remember if I didn’t know about the state assistance back then or not. I don’t think I did. I think that I learned about it a couple of months in, and that’s actually been a really tricky thing, because the state system requires you. They, they prioritize parents who are working, they prioritize parents who are working, and students. So, PhD student, um, parent, really great candidate. Um, but it also has income caps where you have to make, um, to get in, you have to make around, like, 65% of the state median income, and then once you’re in, you can make up to 85% of the state median income to remain in the program. And so, but they base it off of either what you make yearly or what you make monthly. And so what I make monthly, because I’m a student with a stipend amount monthly, it looks much higher, even though yearly I’m not being paid for three months. So in reality, I have to essentially save away a portion of my income for, to cover this summer month. So what I ended up doing is I applied it as an annual income, and I indicate that I’m being paid essentially annually because that would reduce how much I’m being shown to be m- making for the monthly expense, which allowed us to be able to enter into the program. But that’s really tricky because if you don’t realize that you can and need to do that as a graduate student, especially on this kind of contract system, then you look like you’re making too much and you don’t qualify. Literally, when it first happened, it looked like I was like, “You’re, like, $20 over. You don’t qualify.” And so for actually, like, up until probably in January, maybe even March of the first year, we were paying, like, $900 every single month. And that’s only because I divided what is a 10-month tuition rate, um, across a 12-month, um, span.
Emily (24:22): So at the time that you first applied, you had to be at 65% of the median income for the state or lower. Um, and it sounds like, you know, y- you figured out a way to present your income accurately, um, but so that it showed that. And then after that point, you would be permitted to increase your income. So when you’ve talked about, like, applying for more fellowships or, like, applying to, you know, have additional assistantships or, or what have you, that has not bumped you above that 85%, it sounds like.
Madeline (24:47): Correct. Correct.
Emily (24:48): So it’s a little bit of a game of, like, we wanna increase the income, but we know there’s a ceiling at some point.
Madeline (24:53): Yes. And that part of that was when we were like, “You know what? Now’s a great time for my husband to drop down from being full-time to part-time and so, and become a student, so this way our income cannot go above that threshold.” So that- He had already been planning on becoming a student, but the original idea was that he would go after my PhD, but then we were like, “Actually, it’s really beneficial for us to be able to, um, have you go now, so this way we don’t go above that threshold.” So it’s being cognizant of, like, okay, how much are we making now to fit into all these, like, little pieces? It’s like a puzzle game.
A $200 per Month Childcare Bill That Gets Reimbursed
Emily (25:28): I don’t know if your second child has already entered into, um, daycare, but when you have the two in, what’s the total cost gonna be for the household?
Madeline (25:36): So they do what’s called a family fee. And at first, I wasn’t sure about how that would work because the family fee is supposed to be like a percentage of your total income. And it turns out that no matter how many ch – well, at least for our case, having two children in it, it’s still basing upon the family fee itself. So one child now we pay for, and the other child is essentially free, actually. I don’t know what that’s going to look like because every single summer they change daycares because the current, the school affiliated daycare is only open until June, and I still got work in the summer, so they switch daycares and then back, they return back in the fall. And those daycares have different rates, so that’s a little bit complicated. But, um, essentially, we only pay $200, and we were paying $200, and now we still pay $200. So that’s been really incredible.
Emily (26:26): That is incredible. I, I think about, like, you know, when people talk about how, like, you know, the US is one of the only developed countries that doesn’t have, like, early childhood education and all of that. It’s like, wow, Connecticut is doing it at least for these, like, low income, like, residents like you all are. So, again, that’s really, really encouraging that that’s available to you. And, um, something that, you know, people who aspire to become parents during graduate school, if you know that beforehand, you can really look carefully at, you know, the individual universities and the states that they’re in to see what kind of support is gonna be available to you from those different, like, levels. Okay, so you said the main big time support is this childcare program through the state, that’s amazing, but what else has helped you financially?
Madeline (27:08): My union’s been really great as well because they offer also a childcare reimbursement program, or not program, but they have a childcare reimbursement fund. And so, they actually calculate a per kid rate, and because our, um, childcare costs are so low now, we essentially get reimbursed fully for the childcare costs from that funding as well. So, that’s another little bump up that we get, um, from the union every semester.
Emily (27:35): Okay. My mind is, like, blown right now. Like, <laugh> like, okay, childcare, number one, like, I think we talked last time, like, there are several big costs going into, you know, having a child. Childcare, top of the list, leaves also up there, insurance also up there, medical bills, of course, feeding and, and diapering and so forth. But, like, the childcare is, like, the main. Once you get through the whole birth and, and, you know, newborn phase, like, the childcare is the main, main, main big expense. And so, ugh, I’m just so pleased that those resources were available for you, um, because, yeah, you, you wouldn’t have to, you know, take such a huge financial hit for this decision to become a parent during graduate school, so that’s amazing.
Madeline (28:15): The fact of the way that the childcare subsidy program works, the way that my union works is actually a reason that I declined, like, the. Well, I almost had the opportunity. I was, um, in the process of getting interviewed for a job that would pay, like, 100K, honestly, but it had no health insurance, no contracts for any sort of assistance like that. And because it paid so much on paper, I would essentially make myself in, um, ineligible for remaining in the subsidy program. And when I did the math, I came out making less per month, essentially, because of all the additional costs compared to just staying as essentially the idea of the poor graduate student, right? And so that was kind of ironic to me to see, like, the- just the. We don’t talk about it as much, I think, the financial relief that, like, just having certain systems in place, because it doesn’t come on paper that I’m making a lot, but I essentially am receiving the benefit of a much more higher cost than, than what I would be making if I were making much more money.
Madeline (29:21): Especially, especially being pregnant and then expecting to deliver that baby and such. Um, I though about that too. I was like, “What’s the cost of paying marketplace health insurance compared to what my union subsidizes through our employment and everything and what that covers too, because we don’t, we didn’t pay, we don’t pay anything for hospitalizations or anything that comes from hospitalization. Um, and I know that people can pay, like, a couple thousand dollars for having a baby, just like most basic way of having a baby. Um, and we’re really fortunate because our baby ended up in the PICU center right after birth, and it was such a relief to know that we wouldn’t have to really worry about being hit with a extremely high medical bill after that.
Emily (30:05): Oh my goodness. Yes.
Madeline (30:07): Yeah, I, I think that people don’t realize like, oh, like looking at the benefits that a place offers you is, is almost just as important as looking, well, probably just as important as looking at the actual numbers that the place is offering you. That’s what I’ve learned. <laugh>
Emily (30:21): And when you were looking at that job offer, the 100K job offer, would that be like you would’ve left your PhD program and that would’ve been your full-time thing?
Madeline (30:29): Yes. I would’ve taken. I was planning on, um, considering an academic leave of absence because it’s a one-year fellowship to work as like a state governor’s, um, fellow. So I didn’t have the job offer officially, but it was, um, I was in the second round of interviews and then I found out I was pregnant and then I was like, “Oh dear, I need to figure out this before I make serious adjustments.” Um, and part of that was because with all the budget cuts and everything, my department and a lot of departments across, um, the university have been limiting the graduate assistantship hours from a full-time to a 75%. So that was something that I was trying to navigate. And that goes back to that value of money, prioritizing, making sure that my family is cared for and making sure that we’re making enough money versus being like, okay, like not necessarily being like, oh, is this necessarily the best trying to get out of my degree as fast as I can or trying to go on every single project I can. I have to think a little bit differently than I think than I would’ve if I weren’t in this position as a grad student.
Emily (31:26): Mm-hmm. And is that because of basically your limited work hours, like because of the amount of childcare/how much time of course you want to spend with your children? Um, is that the limiting factor is at the time?
Madeline (31:37): I don’t find it’s the time actually. It’s, it really is just making like at 20% we’re able to afford life. It really, and then at 75% we would be going into debt more. And so it’s, it was a waiting game of figuring out like, would I be able to secure a 20-hour assistantship? Would my husband, what is my husband going to be paid at? How many hours is he going to get? How many hours do I need? Just all of the, those small, that’s where my new money calculation into the weeds has gotten into, is to looking at like those kind of things being like, what do we need to be able to afford life at not even like high quality, I would say, but just like being able to be like, okay, we don’t have to fear like going into debt really, um, for just like daily living. And so that was what I was really considering. I was like, oh, like 100K looks really good to be able to know like, oh, I, I’m pretty sure we can, we can survive off of that kind of thing. Um, and how is that gonna look with my husband going to school and having to drop hours potentially because of schooling and stuff? Um, ironically, I find myself to be even more focused and more, working more because of daycare. I’m like, oh, I only have nine to five. I gotta get some work done in this hour. Whereas before I was like, it’s three o’clock. I wanna go nap. I can work later in the evening. And then, and not actually work probably.
Emily (33:02): Yeah. I definitely saw that in graduate school with like the postdocs in my lab who were parents, like who kept very rigid hours but were very efficient when they were there. Any other sort of, um, sources of support that you’ve relied on?
Creating a Village During Grad School
Madeline (33:15): Yes. Um, a lot in the parenting community I find you talk about like creating a village. And so I have found the village through having, finding friends through my daycare, finding friends through literally just seeing people at like the farmer’s market with a kid and being like, “Hey, you have a baby. I have a baby. Let’s be friends.” Um, just finding different ways of support. And so that’s been emotionally, that’s been sometimes even financially, not necessarily that they’re paying us, but for example, when our baby was in the hospital, our friends picked up our oldest. Our friends helped us by, we do family dinner nights now. And so we share in the cost of like eating together, sometimes getting groceries. We go to Costco together. So like sharing in purchases like that sometimes financially has been really beneficial.
Emily (34:01): I think the intangible support though, like, not intangible, the, the tangible support that doesn’t have a dollar sign associated with it, um, is really, really important. And I know you’re long distance from your family and your husband’s family, right? Um, and similarly, when I had my children, we were long distance from all of our family members. And I also created a village with other parents in a similar situation. Uh, there were a lot around. Um, and so actually this has come up in recent interviews as well of like, in that case, my interviewees were talking about how it’s so beneficial to have roommates because you have a built-in support system that’s different than having just friends who you don’t live with. Like yeah, that person’s gonna give you a ride to the airport or like you can share food or what have you. And so you’ve created a similar thing among like the community of parents around you. Makes total sense. And it does, it does boil down to your bottom line eventually because maybe you get those favors, you know, that you would’ve had to pay a babysitter to do, um, otherwise. Or like you’re saying, the time that you would spend like cooking, maybe you only have to do that, you know, half as much as you used to because you’re able to share with your community. Um, it has both a positive like emotional effect as well as ultimately a financial effect.
Madeline (35:11): Yes, it definitely. The babysitting part’s big time because we’ve babysit for each other now and I’m like, that saves like easily 100, $200 because babysitting is not cheap.
Emily (35:21): My, uh, parent, community of parents near me now, uh, our kids are a little bit older, but we’re always like, “It’s easier when there’s other kids over because they just entertain each other and we can, you know, go cook or whatever needs to happen.”
Madeline (35:33): That’s exactly our thinking behind those family nights.
Emily (35:36): Yeah. So we’ve gone through, um, the, the state system and the childcare, the union, um, your, the village you’ve created. Any other sources of support that you’ve leaned on?
Additional Supports: Home Visitors and a Buy Nothing Group
Madeline (35:47): The other systems I can think of would be like the, um, home visitors, uh, which is part of the state systems that exist. And then also our Buy Nothing group, ironically, even though, like, it’s not the same as any other system that I have, to be honest. It’s been very interesting in that I can just say like, “Hey, like, we are looking for some help with, for maternity photos. We would love to have some, but we can’t afford them. Would someone be willing to come take our photos?” Just something like that, having neighbors who we can say, “Hey, um, can you help us move into our new apartment?” Um, they’ve been really, really helpful just to be like, “Hey, I need somebody who can drive my husband because my kids are all asleep. Can you take him to the doctors for us?” So those are other kind of little systems just like that we’ve created that’s kind of part of that village, but it’s not quite the same relationship as like a friendship, I would argue.
Emily (36:38): Mm-hmm. That’s interesting that your buy nothing community extends to like favors. I, I haven’t noticed that in mine. It’s more just like things, like take these things, have these things, you know, um, which I certainly use now. And honestly, for children who are growing very quickly, it’s very, very useful to have a pipeline of, you know, hand-me-downs coming your way and a place to get, you know, cheaper free equipment or car seats or just anything in that, um, line. So yeah, I can totally see how buy nothing would, um, help in that way.
Madeline (37:07): It was a, it was actually the suggestion of our home visitor. She’s like, “Why don’t you just ask that group that you always go to because it can’t hurt to ask and stuff.” And so we, that’s another way that I supplement like that itch for shopping. Like there’s like that you wanna doom spend or you feel stressed and you want some retail therapy and you’re like, “I don’t really have money to do that kind of stuff.” So instead I just go on my buy nothing group and I’m like, “Hmm, what, what’s popping up there?” And you get that thrill of dopamine being like, “Oh, I got selected,” or, “Oh, I got to it first and stuff.” So that’s kind of another psychological way of like kind of handling the stress of like not having a whole lot of disposable income I find. Um, it’s just kind of shopping on Facebook like that.
Emily (37:46): I love that idea. And again, it applies to non-parents as well. If like the thrill of the shopping is what you’re looking for, then put that extra layer of challenge of it’s gotta be free. <laugh>
Madeline (37:57): Yeah, 100%.
Emily (37:59): Well, I’m so thankful for all the insights that you’ve shared in this interview. I mean, especially about, you know, looking at that fellowship offer, or not offer, but like the interview process you were going through for that fellowship and realizing, oh wow, that number is high, but the benefit, the lack of benefits is completely offset and like what the situation you’re currently in is actually pretty good, especially that you wouldn’t be delayed another year for finishing your PhD and, and getting out into the, you know, permanent workforce and all that. So there’s so many insights that you’ve shared. Thank you so much, Madeline.
Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD
Emily (38:28): Um, I will end our interview by asking you the question that I ask all of my guests, which is what is your best financial advice for another early career PhD? And it could be something that we touched on already in the interview or it could be something completely new.
Madeline (38:41): Best thing that I have to say for an early career PhD student, um, would be just to really consider like what do you need and not be afraid to try to go for it. So if that means that you need financial assistance, try to get out of your head about that. If you need, um, if you need help with childcare, looking to see like what are creative ways to work through that. Be willing to ask friends, be willing to ask and find a neighbor that you feel you can trust, be willing to look into what government state assistances there are. And also just recognize like the power of systematic effects, like making sure like, oh, do, is there good health insurance available? Is there, um, are there other good benefits available? Not just looking at that bottom number, um, that bottom line.
Emily (39:28): Of course. Thank you so much for illustrating that for us during the interview today.
Madeline (39:32): Thank you. I’m so happy to have gotten to talk with you for this. So thank you for having me back.
Emily (39:37): Absolutely.
Outro
Emily (39:40): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? We have collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to view transcripts or videos of each episode? We link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.
