Personal Finance for PhDs

Live a financially balanced life - no Real Job required

scholarship

How This Grad Student Turned Around Her Financial Life

by Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Alexis Smith, a 5th-year PhD candidate at Emory University, to break down her budget. Alexis worked between finishing her master’s and starting her PhD, and she had trouble adjusting her spending down to the level of her $32k graduate student assistantship stipend. Thankfully, over time, she both decreased her spending across several categories and increased her income through the new grad student union contract at Emory and a large outside fellowship. Alexis details her current top five expenses as a single grad student living near Atlanta. Alexis’s income and spending levels now allow her to max out her Roth IRA, pay down her credit card debt, and save for near- and mid-term expenses.

Links mentioned in the Episode

How This Grad Student Turned Around Her Financial Life

Teaser

Alexis (00:00): Then coming into the PhD program, just adjusting down was challenging for me. And so I kind of racked up credit card debt that way. And then I reached a point where I was like, “This has got to stop. This is no longer sustainable. This is not how my mother taught me to manage my money.”

Introduction

Emily (00:18): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (00:46): This is Season 25, Episode 6, and today my guest is Alexis Smith, a 5th-year PhD candidate at Emory University. Alexis worked between finishing her master’s and starting her PhD, and she had trouble adjusting her spending down to the level of her $32k graduate student assistantship stipend. Thankfully, over time, she both decreased her spending across several categories and increased her income through the new grad student union contract at Emory and a large outside fellowship. Alexis details her current top five expenses as a single grad student living near Atlanta. Alexis’s income and spending levels now allow her to max out her Roth IRA, pay down her credit card debt, and save for near- and mid-term expenses.

Emily (01:32): If you’ve been enjoying this podcast and want to see it continue, would you please help spread the word? Take a minute to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, text a recent episode that you enjoyed to a friend, or give it a shout-out on social media. Any of those actions helps me to grow Personal Finance for PhDs and continue finding amazing guests for the interviews. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s25e6/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Alexis Smith.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

Emily (02:08): I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today, Alexis Smith, who is a fifth year PhD candidate at Emory University. And today, we are doing a budget breakdown. So we’re gonna find out what Alexis spends in Atlanta or, and/or what her financial goals are. And it’s gonna be a great conversation. So Alexis, thank you so much for volunteering to come on the podcast. And would you please introduce yourself a little bit further for the audience?

Alexis (02:33): Yes. Well, thank you so much for having me. I’ve listened to this podcast for so long, so it’s so exciting to be on here. Um, but my name is Alexis Smith. As you said, I’m a fifth year doctoral candidate in the Behavioral Social Health Education Sciences program at Emory and the Laney Graduate School. And my research looks at the impact of structural racism and social capital on breast cancer outcomes for Black women.

Emily (02:59): Fascinating. And I understand you even do some public outreach related to this, is that right?

Alexis (03:04): Yeah. Yeah. We work with women in the metro area, um, who are breast cancer survivors and thrivers. And we actually have a podcast, <laugh> um, where we offer them an opportunity to share their stories and about their journeys. We do a lot of public outreach and things like that.

Emily (03:20): What’s the name of the podcast?

Alexis (03:22): Bridge Community is the name of it and the podcast is The Bridge.

Emily (03:26): Oh my gosh. I love, obviously when people are doing meaningful work for their graduate degrees and their research overall. And of course, my focus is on the financial side, but I always am hoping and endeavoring and striving for, um, graduate students and PhDs, et cetera, to be well supported financially while they’re in those training stages so that they can flourish themselves and also positively impact the world with their work. So I’m just really pleased to hear about this. <laugh> Let’s get down into those numbers. So first of all, just again, introduce yourself a little bit further. Where do you live and what is your position with the university? Like why are you getting paid?

Alexis (04:02): Okay, beautiful. I’m technically in Decatur, Georgia. I’m a 10-minute drive from campus. If anyone knows Atlanta, they know Atlanta traffic. And so I wanted to be very close to campus. I am a graduate research assistant, so I do work in breast cancer and kidney disease. And so I’m being paid for the work that I do on a chronic kidney disease project as well as teaching. I also teach.

Emily (04:27): Am I correct in interpreting that you are a part-time employee of the university? You have a W-2 for your stipend.

Alexis (04:34): Yes, I do. Exactly.

Emily (04:36): Okay. Gotcha. Has that always been the case throughout graduate school? Okay.

Alexis (04:39): It has.

Emily (04:40): Very good. And is it just you in your household or is there anyone else involved in this financial picture?

Alexis (04:44): It’s just me and my cat. <laugh>

$80,000 in Annual Income as a Grad Student

Emily (04:47): Nice. Um, okay. How much are you paid on an annual basis?

Alexis (04:53): On an annual basis, I’m paid about 43,000.

Emily (04:56): Nice. And again, is that something that stayed consistent throughout graduate school?

Alexis (04:59): So when I came in, it was around 32, 33,000. And then through some advocacy efforts of students in the graduate school, and we’re also unionized now, we now have a stipend of about 43,000. And every year, they would kind of increase it a little bit, I guess, for like lifestyle inflation and things like that. So now we’re at 43.

Emily (05:21): I love to hear it. Uh, I’m recalling now, yes, Emory has been on a unionization journey in recent years. I’m so glad to hear about that jump. It’s well deserved, obviously, <laugh> but to agree to come to a school at 32, and then five years later to be at 43 is like, okay this is looking a little brighter than you though it was you know, when you committed. Do you have any other sources of income, like side hustles or fellowships or anything like that?

Alexis (05:46): Yeah, I do. So I am a Gates Millennium Scholar, and so I have the Gates Millennium Scholarship, which basically provided funding through undergrad, my master’s, and now the PhD. So I get additional income from that. And it’s a scholarship that comes directly to me, well, through the school to me. And then I also work with another project on the side for like a few hours a week, which ends up being like two to $400 a month.

Emily (06:12): Okay. Amazing. And so from the Gates Millennium Foundation, is that like an annual amount? Is it monthly? How is that distributed?

Alexis (06:20): It’s, it’s by semester. So I get a stipend in the semester. So for this past semester, it was 16,000 for fall semester, and then I’ll get another stipend in the spring.

Emily (06:32): And so this is on top of the 43 that you mentioned earlier. Okay. So adding this up, we’re looking at now, let’s see, 32 plus 43. We’re up to 75 plus your other side hustle of, let’s call it, you’re closer to 80. Is that right?

Alexis (06:50): Well, the other side hustle kind of varies. I almost don’t even count it. <laugh> Because it’s so, uh, minimal.

Emily (06:56): Okay. And all of that is take home for you. None of that’s going towards like tuition or other kinds of education expenses.

Alexis (07:02): No. All take home for me. Yeah.

Current Financial Goals: An Emergency Fund, Debt Repayment, Home Down Payment, and Elder Care

Emily (07:03): Amazing. I love to hear it. Okay. Congratulations on having that fellowship. And that it’s able to stack on top of the you know, existing funding. So that’s amazing. Okay. Let’s talk about your financial goals then. What financial goals are you currently working toward?

Alexis (07:20): The two that I’m actively working towards now are I’m building up my emergency fund. So by the end of this year, I will have saved up six months of expenses. So that’s like my big goal. And then my second goal is debt repayment. I don’t pay the minimum of my credit card. I pay $400 a month on the credit card, so I wanna get that done. Um, and then I also have like sinking funds that I also put money into, so I wanna build those up as well. And then ultimately, I am building towards a home down payment. Um, I don’t know if I wanna buy a house. I’m still not sure, but I feel like I just wanna start saving towards it just in case. And then the last thing is elder care. So I’m an only child and it’s just me and my mom and she’s disabled. And so one of the things I wanna make sure is that I’m able to provide for her in her elderhood. So yeah. So those are the big things I’m saving for.

Emily (08:17): In terms of the elder care, is that something you are currently like funding your mom or is it more like I’m saving so that I can do this in the future if called upon?

Alexis (08:25): I’m saving so I can do it in the future.

Emily (08:27): And is that all cash savings or are you doing any investing?

Alexis (08:30): Yes. I am doing some investing. Some of this goes into savings and then this year I’m on track to max out my Roth IRA.

Emily (08:38): Incredible. Awesome. And you don’t have any benefits through the university in terms of retirement like access, right?

Alexis (08:45): No.

Emily (08:45): The 403B? Okay. Gotcha. Typically the case, but I like to check. Okay. If I may ask, how did the credit card debt come about? Was there like an emergency in the past? 

Alexis (08:55): Yeah. Very good question. So a combination of things. So I worked after my master’s degree before I started the PhD, and honestly, it was just really difficult for me to adjust back down to <laugh> a PhD stipend. Um, so I did have credit card debt coming into the doctoral program. Like I had a big trip and then I had to fund a couple of emergencies. And so then coming into the PhD program, just adjusting down was challenging for me. And so I kind of racked up credit card debt that way. And then I reached a point where I was like, “This has got to stop. This is no longer sustainable. This is not how my mother taught me to manage my money.” Um, so then I was like, kind of put the card away. I stopped using it, and now I’ve been like working away to pay it off.

Adjusting to a Lower Income During Grad School

Emily (09:46): See, this is something that I love about these budget breakdown episodes that I think we’re gonna talk about your expenses. And then I realize, oh, there’s so much more interesting backstory here. Can you tell me a little bit about that financial adjustment to graduate school? How much money were you making before? Were you also living in the same area or did coming graduate school come with a move or like just because I know a lot of prospective graduate students are concerned about the same thing. Like, “Hey, I’ve been working for a few years, post-undergrad, post-masters. I like my lifestyle. <laugh> What’s gonna happen when I, when I go back to living on a stipend?” So can you just tell us more about what that transition was like?

Alexis (10:17): I was making about 55K before I started. I was working for a nonprofit organization in Montgomery, Alabama, and then started making 32K. And so when I first started the program, I was not getting the additional fellowships — was not happening. Um, so it was only the 32K, no side hustles, nothing like that. And rent was significantly higher here in Atlanta than it was in Montgomery. Like in both places I was living alone. Um, but I think I ended up, I don’t know, maybe was 500 or so more in rent when I moved to Atlanta. And I guess, you know, you could say, well, I could have had roommates, but <laugh> I’d been living alone for a number of years and just was unwilling to have roommates again. And so that, that came with an added expense where I wasn’t sharing housing expenses. Um, so that w –

Emily (11:11): So we’re talking about a, a decrease in the top line number and an increase just in cost of living differences between those two cities. Yeah.

Alexis (11:18): Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Emily (11:19): And so how did that Millennium Foundation Scholarship restart? Like, why didn’t that start right at the beginning?

Alexis (11:26): Part of it was just lack of knowledge on my end. Because technically my program is fully funded, I didn’t know that I could receive this top off until my third or fourth year. So this is a recent occurrence. It hasn’t been all five years.

Emily (11:41): Yeah. That makes sense. But really good PSA. I mean, I know the Millennium, the Millennium Foundation grant is, it’s rare, but I have interviewed actually someone on the podcast before who received it and it just seems like an incredible boon. But, but any kind of outside fellowship that you’ve won in the past, it’s always just worth inquiring. Like how does the stack, how can it stack? Can it continue? I’m glad you sorted it out after a few years. Okay. Well, this gives us a really good picture of how you got to this point where you’re doing this cash savings, you’re gonna be maxing out your IRA this year, you’re repaying that past credit card debt. Is there a reason why you’re not throwing all the cash savings money towards the credit card debt? Like why is it important to you to be working on both simultaneously?

Alexis (12:22): Um, I don’t know. Like there’s a part of me that really just wants to have the money saved up, especially because, you know, I’ll be graduating hopefully in the spring and I’ll be, I’m applying to postdocs, I’ll be applying to jobs. But in this current market, I have no idea how long that’s gonna take. And so I wanna be able to fund myself for up to six months if possible. And so it’s kind of important to me to have that like chunk of savings stashed away in case I need it. But I have thought about that and I, but I think part of it is like my own personal comfort of wanting to have it just in case I need it.

Budget Breakdown: Housing

Emily (12:57): Okay. Gotcha. Let’s finally dive into those expenses. This is the classic like budget breakdown that we do on the podcast, which is you’re gonna list your top five line items in your budget every month, and we’ll kinda talk about those amounts and how they come to be that way. And it should be illuminating, I think, for graduate students generally, but also specifically in that Atlanta, Decatur kinda area of like, oh, like more, less, similar, not? Like what are these choices and, and how do they, you know, play out? So your top five expenses, starting with number one, everyone’s number one is the same. What is it for you?

Alexis (13:32): It is rent. <laugh> Um, so my base rent is 1,600. And then once you add in fees and water and things of that nature, it ends up being 1,800 a month.

Emily (13:44): Okay. So part of your utilities are bundled in. And you already mentioned that you live alone. Um – Give us a little bit of a, a picture. Is it a studio, one bedroom? How many square feet do you have?

Alexis (13:53): It’s a one bedroom, no idea how many square feet, but it’s like a standard one bedroom apartment. Yeah.

Emily (14:01): Who owns it? Is it like a big apartment complex? Is it an individual landlord?

Alexis (14:07): Yeah. It’s a complex, an apartment complex. So there’s like, I don’t know, 30 buildings or something like that in the complex.

Emily (14:15): Huge. Yeah. <laugh>

Alexis (14:16): Yeah.

Emily (14:16): Yeah. Is this popular with students?

Alexis (14:17): It is actually, because it’s so close to campus. I recently went to, like, one of those meet and greet things they have and ran into a number of, like, first-year graduate students. So I think it is. And I, I actually am here because a previous student lived here and recommended it to me.

Emily (14:34): All right. So I just did some back of the envelope math, and I think your base rental price compared to your overall income is something around 25% – ish, give or take with taxes and those kinds of things. Does that sound about right? So that is, like, very manageable. Um I mean, to me, it sounds like a large number, but in terms of the amount of money you’re taking in overall, like, this is a very reasonable, especially for today’s climate, fraction of your income to be spending on rent. So that’s awesome. Anything else you’d like to say about the rent question?

Alexis (15:07): I will say in terms of just, like, trajectory, I’ve not always lived in this apartment. I used to live in another apartment in the same complex, um, but it was a two-bedroom. And there’s a whole story into why I was in a two-bedroom. But the rent just went to the point to where it was just, I could not maintain it. And this was before I was receiving the additional scholarship. And so I downsized into a one-bedroom apartment since I moved here.

Emily (15:33): So that’s a very strategic, like, your income has gone up and this major expense has come down, actually, because you made some different choices there. So, like, yeah, I can see how that would’ve put you in a bind on that earlier stipend amount, but, like, now it’s comfortable. That’s great. Good for you for making that decision, because, like, moving is not easy. When I teach graduate students and postdocs, like, and people are very interested in reducing expenses, I go to that housing number. It’s like, this is… It’s the hardest thing to change because moving is such a pain. It takes time, it takes money, it takes research, blah, blah. You gotta provide pizza and beer to your friends, like, all the things. <laugh> Um, and yet, if you manage to do it the way that you did, every single month, it’s paying off in that lower you know, significantly lower, um, cost. And so, good for you for making it happen. It’s not an easy decision.

Alexis (16:20): Yeah. No, it was… Well, it just was no longer sustainable, so I had to. <laugh>

Budget Breakdown: Utilities

Emily (16:26): Definitely. Glad to hear it. All right. Your number two line item in your budget.

Alexis (16:30): Utilities. I lump all of my utilities. I mean, they’re different bills, but I just kinda lump them all together in my budget. And so that is my phone bill, so my cell phone, which is both for me and my mom. And that ends up being $163 a month. And then power and gas ends up being about $100 a month. And then my internet is about $46 a month.

Emily (16:54): It sounds like probably two of those are fixed expenses, right? The internet and the phone bills, and then the power is a fluctuating one, right? But you have the range kinda dialed in.

Alexis (17:03): Yeah.

Emily (17:04): That makes sense. Have you ever taken any intentional steps around decreasing or increasing, um, any of these utilities?

Alexis (17:10): So I just recently decreased the internet from, it was, like, $75 to 46.

Emily (17:17): How’d you do it?

Alexis (17:17): So I just did that in the last month. I changed companies. <laugh>

Emily (17:20): Okay. Is it, like, a promotional thing at the new company or –

Alexis (17:23): Yeah, it was a promotional thing, but I just found out from a friend that they offer… It’s Xfinity, and they offer a student discount.

Emily (17:32): Nice. Um, I love it when you get tips like that from fellow graduate students. It’s like these people really know what the opportunities are in your area, right? I mean, especially with utilities, there are these monopolies in place, and sometimes it is, like, you can’t really compare people across different cities or even different neighborhoods because, yeah, they may be serviced by different providers. But that’s awesome that you heard that and implemented it.

Alexis (17:54): Yeah.

Commercial

Emily (17:57): Emily here for a brief interlude! I’m hard at work behind the scenes updating my suite of tax return preparation workshops for tax year 2026. These educational workshops guide you in identifying, calculating, and reporting your higher education-related income and expenses on your federal tax return. For the 2026 tax season starting in January 2027, I’m offering live and asynchronous workshops for US citizen/resident graduate students, postdocs, and postbacs and non-resident graduate students and postdocs. Would you please reach out to your graduate school, graduate student government, postdoc office, international house, fellowship coordinator, etc. to request that they host one or more of these workshops for you and your peers? I’d love to receive a warm introduction to a potential sponsor this fall so we can hit the ground running in January serving those early bird filers. You can find more information about hosting these workshops at P F f o r P h D s dot com slash tax dash workshops. Please pass that page on to the potential sponsor. Now back to our interview.

Budget Breakdown: Groceries

Emily (19:18): How about your number three expense?

Alexis (19:19): My number three expense would be groceries, and that’s about 200 to 250 a month.

Emily (19:26): Wow. You’re a frugal grocery shopper. How are you making that work?

Alexis (19:29): I am. Well, one, it’s just me. And two, I kind of have pretty set things. So one of the things I do is I get the family meal plans, which feed, like, four to six people. And so that’s anywhere from, like, 25 to $35 a week. And so that will feed me for one of my meals for a week. I meal prep. And I just like quick, easy meals, so like pastas or stir fries, an omelet. So I’m pretty streamlined when it comes to my grocery bill.

Emily (20:02): So go back a minute because I’m not sure… You mentioned a family meal plan, but are you referring to… I’m not sure what you’re referring to as a meal kit or –

Alexis (20:10): Oh, sorry. So, like, yes, like, you can go to, like, Sprouts or Whole Foods and get, like, a family meal. So you get a protein, a veggie, and another side, and I can eat off of that for a week.

Emily (20:24): Okay. So it’s like prepared food from the grocery store. I gotcha. Okay. So yeah. So that is, you’re outsourcing the meal prep <laugh> to the grocery store – But you’re taking care of one meal per week out of that, uh, pipeline. You mentioned a couple of types of foods that you eat. Do you wanna expand on any more? Like, give us your favorite quick and easy meal, dinner or lunch or whatever would be relevant.

Alexis (20:45): Yeah. So my favorite is probably a chicken Caesar salad. So I just buy the, um, salad mix, and then I get, like, the frozen chicken bites, and then I cook them up, and I have, like, a warm chicken Caesar salad, or I’ll make a pesto pasta. Um, those are probably my two go-tos. And they’re super quick, super easy, and very affordable.

Emily (21:08): Now, you gave me a preview on what your top five expenses are, so I know that eating out is not gonna fall in these top five. So tell me about your interplay between that grocery spending and eating out. Like, you know, are you brown bagging your, your lunch every day to work? Or, like, when do you eat out or under what circumstances?

Alexis (21:27): So, yeah, so I do eat out. I have a line item in my budget for eating out. I also have one for coffee shops because I love coffee. I let myself have, like, a nice dinner out, maybe once a month. Every now and then, I may get a small meal, but typically, I try to keep it under $15. So, like, it’ll be, you know, something small or sometimes I may get something larger, but can actually make it two meals because I’m… I just don’t have a very big appetite, so I can easily make, like, a meal, two meals, and then that’ll last me for a couple of days.

Emily (21:59): Okay. But it sounds like you’re not in, like, a regular cadence of eating out. It’s not like, oh, every Friday I’m doing this and every Wednesday lunch I’m doing this.

Alexis (22:08): So, that was an issue I had when I first moved here. So, these are things I’ve learned over time. 

Emily (22:14): Well, we wanna benefit from your from your experience here. So, please tell us how that went. 

Alexis (22:20): Yes. I used to DoorDash and Uber Eats all the time when I first started. And I think it was just adjusting to school and, like, being so tired and just not having the energy to cook. This went on for a few months, and then I looked up, and I’m like, “Oh, my goodness. I’m spending so much money eating out. This is why, you know, <laugh> this is why my account looks the way it does.” That’s when I really got kind of buckled down and said, “Okay, I need to start meal prepping. I need to start cooking. I need to see what are other ways I can meal prep, even if I’m not the one doing it.” Um, so yeah, no, this is only a new thing. <laugh>

Emily (23:02): Great. Well, you timed coming on this podcast very well because we can learn all these lessons, uh – from your experience. Um, another question that, because you just mentioned, you know, energy, right? Like, you know, getting home at the end of the workday and I’m just too tired to cook, and I know… I mean, this happened to me in graduate school too. I mean, well, it’s probably happens to everybody, right? Nobody wants to cook when they get home from work. So, you know, you mentioned getting the prepared foods from the grocery store, you mentioned meal prep. Um, is that what you do, like, for dinners? Like you’re like, “Oh, no, I, I know exactly what I’m eating and it takes me, you know, five minutes to heat it up.” Or, like, how does your actual after work, like, eating routine go?

Alexis (23:36): So, on the weeks when I have the meal prep, I just heat it up. I don’t have one this week because I won’t be in town for the weekend. Um, so this week is just trying to figure something out. I’ll probably have a chicken Caesar salad tonight because I’ve got some mix in the refrigerator and some chicken in the freezer. Some days, it’s, I just have to figure it out on the fly, but on the weeks that I’m doing well, I just come home and heat it up so I don’t have to think about it, which is helpful for me. I like not having to think about what I’m going to cook.

Emily (24:04): Yeah, for sure. You’re spending $250 a month on groceries, that’s a pretty low amount, even for one person. It means very clearly that you have this dialed in, but I just wanna point out for the listener that, like, when you’ve noticed yourself in a habit of eating out DoorDashing or whatever it is for convenience, you’ve traded that. So you said, “I, this cost is too high. I’m instead gonna get this, you know, prepared food from the grocery store, this meal prep food.” And yeah, that probably is more expensive than getting all those base ingredients. But you were not in a situation where you were willing to use those base ingredients, um, so you went for kind of like that next downgraded thing. And still, overall, you’re only spending 200 to $250 a month. Like, it has not exploded the grocery budget to trade off with that eating out budget, right? So, like, this was a really positive trade-off for, like, your money, your energy, like, all those things.

Alexis (24:54): Exactly. And I think it works for me because I am, like, a snacker, so I, I also graze throughout the day, and so it helps, I think, inadvertently, it keeps cost down <laugh> because I am a grazer. So I know that might not be applicable for everybody, but it works for me.

Budget Breakdown: Cat Care

Emily (25:11): Yeah. Well, great just to put your strategies out there and people can pick up what they want to. Um, okay, let’s go to your fourth line item.

Alexis (25:18): The fourth one is my cat. So I spend about $170 a month on him. He’s recently had some health issues, so I already always had insurance on him. And then the vet offered another insurance that I could get through them to cover his visits and a teeth cleaning. This is kind of cat lore, but they have to put cats… They have to give them anesthesia to clean their teeth, and so it ends up being very expensive. And so they’ve been telling me since I had him, “He needs to get his cleaned. He needs to get his teeth cleaned.” I’m like, “I can’t. It’s… That’s $1,200. There’s no way.” So with this extra insurance, it kind of pays for itself because it comes with the cat, um, teeth cleaning. And so, yeah, between his insurance, insurances, plural, <laugh> and his food, and treats, and things like that, it, it comes out to about $170 a month.

Emily (26:12): So I love this financial, like, question. Like, would I rather pay for one-off expenses as they arise, knowing the dollar amount’s going to be high? Or would I rather, as you mentioned earlier, set up sinking funds for this purpose? Or would I rather pay an insurance policy that’s… Or any kind of sort of a maintenance plan where an external provider is saying, “Yes, for this fixed monthly cost, like, this is what you’re getting and you won’t be surprised by things.” Um, I think those three choices, depending on how you wanna run your finances, any of them could make sense, but you’ve made this insurance choice, so that’s great. And I, I love hearing from pet owners because I don’t think we talk about it <laugh> enough on the podcast And it’s obviously a very significant part of many, many people’s lives. So now, you know, it’s one of your top five line items.

Alexis (26:57): Yep, it is one of my top five.

Emily (26:59): But, I mean, I’ll just point out for the listener, like, the difference between your number one and your number four is a full order of magnitude, right? Like, your rent is up there, you know, 16, $1800 a month, depending on how you wanna calculate it. Um, your other top costs are really not adding up to that much, and that’s why we’ve gotten down a full order of magnitude, like, just within this list. But thank you so much for sharing how you decided to handle your pet costs. How about your fifth line item?

Budget Breakdown: Fun and Maintenance

Alexis (27:25): My fifth line item is my fun and maintenance, is what I call it, which ends up being around 150, sometimes 160. And so, that’s for my nails, because I like to get my nails done because it makes me happy. And for entertainment, so I like to go to the museum, maybe a concert every couple of months, or get books, like I’m a big reader. All of those are things that go into my fun/maintenance budget line item.

Emily (27:52): Awesome. And is this also anything that has shifted over time?

Alexis (27:57): I’ve always had the fun and maintenance line item in my budget, but it was much lower. And then one, I realized I was spending more, so I was like, “Well, I need to adjust it.” And two, now that I have, like, the extra income, I’m able to do things like get my nails done. So that one has actually increased over time.

Emily (28:13): I really like to hear that, actually. Like, you’ve decreased the rent, you’ve decreased some utilities, you’ve dialed in your grocery spending. Hey, that means you get to allocate more money to, um, some of these expenses that are, yes, discretionary, yes, variable, but still important for your life satisfaction. So that’s so great that you can, you know, you’ve dialed down these other items so you can dial up something else that’s really, you know, valuable to you.

Alexis (28:38): I appreciate you saying that because sometimes it feels kind of frivolous, like, “Oh, I go get my nails done.” But it makes me happy, and I have the bandwidth for, like, the wiggle room in my budget to do so. And because, again, I kind of skimp in other areas so I can splurge in others. So thank you for saying that.

Emily (28:57): Exactly. Yeah. I like Ramit Sethi’s quote on this topic, which is, um, “Cut mercilessly on costs you don’t care about so you can spend extravagantly on things that you do.”

Alexis (29:07): Yes. No, and that… He actually reading that book kind of, um, inspired me to be like, “Oh, like, I don’t have to, like, cut everything. I can have fun things in my budget.” So, yeah.

Beyond the Top Five Expenses: Transportation

Emily (29:20): I do have another question, which is about something that doesn’t appear in your top five, which is transportation costs. So, can you tell what your transportation situation is?

Alexis (29:28): Yes. So, I do drive. I have a car, and I do pay insurance on that car, but it isn’t the… I don’t have a car payment, so there’s no car payment, and the insurance is less than my lowest line item. Like, I think it’s, I don’t know, like, $60 a month or something like that. Like, I’m on my mom’s insurance, so that helps.

Emily (29:46): Okay. So, it’s like a little bit of a bundling situation. Um, but let me ask about the car, because that insurance amount tells me that this is a pretty modest car, I think. So, like, when did you acquire it? How old is it now?

Alexis (29:58): So, I got the car… In 2021. Um, it was a 2019 when I got it. And I do have a sinking fund for car repairs and, like, car maintenance and things like that. So that kind of ends up being more when I go every few months.

Emily (30:15): And what kind of a car is it?

Alexis (30:16): It is a Nissan Sentra.

Emily (30:18): Okay. That makes sense. And do you see this car lasting you for a while longer? Are you planning on upgrading it at any point?

Alexis (30:24): I’m planning on driving it until I can’t drive it anymore. <laugh> I don’t plan on upgrading it anytime soon. I like not having a car payment.

Emily (30:31): That’s the ding ding correct personal finance answer. <laugh> Yes. The car is a necessity, but once you buy it, like, hold onto it as long as possible.

Alexis (30:42): Exactly. Exactly.

Emily (30:42): We’ve gotten so much out of this interview, that picture of where you were financially when you started graduate school, how many changes you’ve made, the income going up, the expenses coming down, being able to put more into your financial goals and paying off debt and savings and the Roth IRA and all that wonderful stuff. Would you be able to give us any more insight into your planned next step? So you mentioned we’re here in October 2026. You are hoping to graduate in the spring, you’re applying for postdocs, maybe other positions. You mentioned that you wanna build up that six-month emergency fund because we do not know yet what the job situation’s going to be. Any other comments you wanna tell us about this upcoming transition out of graduate school?

Financially Preparing for Post-PhD Life

Alexis (31:17): Yes. I’m applying to post-docs now. Hopefully one of those will work out. Um, and I’m hoping to stay ideally within like the Southeast region to be close to home and family. Um, but we’ll see. I am a planner, um, and I love a good spreadsheet. So I plan to like create a new spreadsheet budget for the postdoc, hopefully to stay pretty close to the PhD, you know, because the income will probably be very similar with my extra scholarships and things like that. But also thinking about kind of what is the next steps in terms of my savings goals and like once I hit the six month, which will be at the end of this year, um, I think I’m gonna have to like let go of my need to save, save, save and like start putting that towards my credit card and investing and things like that.

Emily (32:06): Yeah. I think that’s a really important question to ask yourself or anybody ask themselves within their financial plan, especially if you have a habit of saving or a tendency towards saving is knowing what the stopping point is and knowing what enough is so that, because the savings serves a purpose, but the purpose is not to grow your wealth, right? It’s to step in in times of emergency, to help you with unexpected expenses. It’s not counteracting that credit card interest rate. It’s not fighting inflation over the long term the way your investments would, they’ll grow ahead of that. So knowing the stopping point is very, very important. And I was really pleased to hear that, you know, you’re planning on maxing out the Roth IRA this year. Presumably you’ll do that next year, um, as well, if not maybe other kinds of investing, depending on how the you know, the work situation goes. That’s all great to hear. And do you have any control or influence on when you graduate? Are you able to wait for job offers before officially graduating or is it like, no, I’m gonna be out at a certain point whether or not I have a job?

Alexis (33:03): That is a really good question. So my committee is kind of flexible. I’m the one that’s really pushing for spring finish, but I do have the wiggle room to continue into the summer or into the fall.

Emily (33:16): So it’s hopeful that if a job doesn’t come through in time, that you may be able to extend. Um, but, you know, ideally, yeah, you would get out on your own timeline. Uh, so the, the emergency fund may just be able to continue as an emergency fund, not necessarily something you need to draw down on because you may be able to make a very small lapse in time, right, between the end of your grad student position and the start of the next position.

Alexis (33:40): Exactly. Exactly.

Emily (33:41): Yeah. That sounds awesome. Well, Alexis, it’s been such a pleasure to speak with you and we’ learned so much through this conversation. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (33:49): I’m gonna ask you the question that I ask of all my guests, which is what is your best financial advice for another early career PhD? And it can be something that we’ve touched on in the interview already, or it can be something completely new.

Alexis (33:59): Have a money plan and stick to it, whether that looks like having a budget and sticking to a budget. I know not everyone want, like, appreciates or wants a budget or likes budgeting. So, but like I would say have a money plan. So whether that be having money goals or having guardrails for yourself, like, have one and stick to it. Um, don’t be like me. <laugh> In my early years.

Emily (34:21): You got it together. You got it together over time.

Alexis (34:23): Don’t be like me in my early years. Um, but yes, have a money plan and stick to it.

Emily (34:29): Yeah, that sounds really good. Like, I think the way that I would kind of, um, apply that maybe in your situation is I, it’s not very sexy, but I like the phrase live within your means. Like yeah. As a grad student, like, you need to be living like a grad student, you know? So like that was a hard adjustment for you at the beginning. And you figured it out. You did. And you increased your income. So it’s all good, like the outcomes on it, but it is a really tough thing to face of like, oh yeah, I need to be living <laugh> like a graduate student because I am graduate student. Again, you’ve already done the master’s. And, and back and forth, back and forth. But like, so wonderful how it’s worked out and I wish you all the best with graduating in the coming months and, and your next job and all of that. So thank you so much again for volunteering to come on the podcast.

Alexis (35:12): Thank you so much for having me. This has been such a pleasure.

Outro

Emily (35:20): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? We have collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to view transcripts or videos of each episode? We link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

From Zero Funding to Graduating Student Loan Debt-Free

by Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Dr. José Riera, who recently finished his PhD in education from Washington State University. José’s offer of admission to WSU did not include any funding, so he initially accepted some student loans and expected to accumulate a hundred thousand dollars of debt before graduation. However, through his incredible resourcefulness, José secured multiple types of funding throughout his three-year degree that paid his education and living expenses and allowed him to repay the student loans he initially took out. Jose teaches us the tactics that he used to land two assistantships, an adjunct teaching position, and 18 scholarships. Don’t miss José’s incredibly inspiring story of overcoming these and other obstacles!

Links Mentioned in This Episode

Image for S13E6: From Zero Funding to Graduating Student Loan Debt-Free

Teaser

00:00 José: I would also say that you also want to make sure that you craft a very good message so that when people meet you, they not only remember who you are, but they want to know what you’re passionate about and how you’re helping yourself and others in that. Because then they make the connection and say, “Oh, wait a second.” So, they immediately connect as opposed to saying, “Well, he’s just, or José’s just a student in need.” You want to make sure that they have some memorable talk points about what it is that you’re pursuing, your research, your career focus, and the communities that you want to help out.

Introduction

00:42 Emily: Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. This is Season 13, Episode 6, and today my guest is Dr. José Riera, who recently finished his PhD in education from Washington State University. José’s offer of admission to WSU did not include any funding, so he initially accepted some student loans and expected to accumulate a hundred thousand dollars of debt before graduation. However, through his incredible resourcefulness, José secured multiple types of funding throughout his three-year degree that paid his education and living expenses and allowed him to repay the student loans he initially took out. Jose teaches us the tactics that he used to land two assistantships, an adjunct teaching position, and 18 scholarships. Don’t miss José’s incredibly inspiring story of overcoming these and other obstacles! Without further ado, here’s my interview with Dr. José Riera.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

02:09 Emily: I have joining me on the podcast today, José Riera. He recently finished his PhD in education from Washington State University, so he has a different kind of funding path than what we normally hear on the podcast. And I’m really excited for him to share for anybody else who’s pursuing a similar degree or has similar funding challenges at the beginning of their PhD. So, José, I’m really delighted that you are joining us here. Will you please tell the listeners a little bit more about yourself?

02:33 José: Well, thank you for hosting me today, Emily. I’m very happy to be here and help you and your mission to support many worthy students obtain funding and guidance to survive what can be a very challenging process. And I consider myself blessed to have met you at the beginning of this journey. So, I was able to pave the way thanks to your support and complete really an incredible journey in a three-year time span, which is amazing. So, just a little bit about me besides the fact, like you mentioned, I just completed my PhD in education here at Washington State University. I’m in the eastern part of Washington, in the town of Pullman. Before that, my background was mostly in business administration. I did a lot of work in inner-city communities throughout the United States, serving mostly Latino and African American neighborhoods.

03:28 José: I have an undergraduate degree in finance from Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. And then I have a Master’s in Business Administration from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. So, my background prior to coming to WSU had been mostly a business administration perspective handling financial and retail aspects of different operations. And I did that throughout the United States. I think through some health challenges and just some personal reflections, I pivoted away into the area of education where I felt the focus was going to be mostly on helping others. And as I entered the second stage of my life working mostly towards was I a good steward of the resources that I was born with? And that led me, among other places, to Washington State University, where, like you mentioned, I just completed my PhD.

Funding the MBA

04:28 Emily: So fascinating. So, this was your second go-round with graduate school, actually. Tell me about how you funded the MBA.

04:37 José: Well, the MBA, it was in the University of Pennsylvania. My parents helped significantly with my MBA, and then I had also won a significant scholarship funding from the University of Pennsylvania, just based on my ethnic background that provided some support. So, I was able to cover that. That was only a two-year program. And I was in a little bit of better financial shape back then than I was coming into my PhD.

05:08 Emily: Okay. So, you didn’t take out student loans, for example, for that initial degree?

05:12 José: No, I did not.

Finances Right Before Starting Graduate School

05:13 Emily: So, tell me about your finances right before coming into graduate school. You just said you were in a different situation, so what was the situation?

05:19 José: Well, the biggest challenge for me was I had, you know, I spent several years in a hospital. And I was recovering from an accident, and that recovery process really wiped out any sort of financial support that I had. I had child support that I was accruing, unable to pay for because I had no income. And then I had just a sheer amount of health-related expenses I kept accumulating. So, that was my backdrop as I looked to complete my rehab and then get my life back in order and decide to pursue something back in education that would give me additional tools and a different perspective on my life is really the genesis of how I connected with you and how I connected with Washington State University, among other schools.

06:19 Emily: Okay. So, we have a big interruption that you just went through in your financial life. Some debts that you had accrued. So, I’m guessing that you did not want to accrue any further debt during your graduate degree. Can you tell me about how PhDs in education are typically funded?

Funding for PhDs in Education

06:41 José: Yes, very good. Well, at least at Washington State University, the program is very, very international. And a lot of the students, especially from Saudi Arabia, from China, they’re actually funded by their own host governments. So, I entered into what’s a fairly small program. My class was only about 13 students. I think I was the only citizen in the entire group. So, that just gives you a sense of the fact that a lot of them received independent funding, and the program itself wasn’t really geared towards providing financial support just because it’s seen somewhat of a, for lack of a better word, a cash cow for Washington State University. Again, you’re having a lot of students that are not only paying out-of-state tuition, but a lot of them are paying even a higher out-of-country tuition. So, it’s a big operation for them. I did not have any sort of support coming into the program.

07:46 Emily: Yeah. So, tell me about when you, like received your offer of admission to Washington State. It sounded like you didn’t receive funding along with that, Is that correct?

07:56 José: That is correct, yes. And they were very clear from the get-go saying we’d love to welcome you into our environment, but we don’t have the financial package or wherewithal to be able to provide any sort of support into your program. So, you’re going to have to find your own way of supporting your education.

Why Washington State University?

08:17 Emily: And was that your only offered admission? Were you looking at other offers of admission at the same time? And if so, how did those funding packages look?

08:26 José: Yeah, so that’s actually a very good question. I was actually based in California, and I had been looking, and in the process of applying for Berkeley as well as University of California Davis, these schools had in-state tuition that was more affordable, obviously. But the big decision for me, there were two main factors. The first one was the fact that these schools, since I didn’t come from a background in education, in both of these universities, and I won’t even tell you about Stanford, because Stanford would’ve been a nine-year program. But these universities would have required me to pursue some master-level educational courses before being allowed to enter fully into a doctoral-level curriculum. And Washington state was not that way.

09:25 José: Washington said, “Look, we realize that you’re not from an educational background, but you have a significantly interesting, eclectic, shall we say, background. You have very strong academic credentials from your undergraduate and graduate school. We will let you start taking in doctoral level courses.” Which helped me at least reduce my academic yearly path by at least two years compared to UC Davis and UC Berkeley. So, again, it was a trade-off in that regard. And then secondly, I had other considerations. My daughter was a student at WSU, and that was a big decision for me to actually come here to make up for the years that I was unable to be in her life due to health issues and my hospital recovery.

Plan for Funding the PhD

10:23 Emily: What a beautiful opportunity. I’m so glad that lined up for you so well. Okay, but, you’re coming in with no funding. So, what was your I guess, outlook at that time? Like, what was the plan before you actually arrived on campus? What was your plan for funding the PhD?

10:41 José: Well, listen, I’m very much of a self-starter. So, at the very least, I said, “This is an opportunity that I am giving to improve my lot where I was, where I was just essentially sinking in debt and not feeling that I had much traction.” Entering into this opportunity that Washington State afforded me allowed me to make a step in the right direction. And, you know, even if I had not had any other sort of funding, because of my financial condition, I was given a fairly generous FAFSA package. You know, so I could have really loaded up on student debt to the degree that I could, upwards of $40,000 each semester. And initially, the first year, as you might imagine, I was paying out-of-state tuition, which was two-and-a-half, sometimes three times as expensive as in-state.

11:40 José: So, I started that route, especially moving in. But I had knocked on a lot of doors. Especially, I had looked at a different program. At one point I wasn’t sure if they would take me in the School of Education, so I applied for a history program, made good connections there, and the head of that school said, “Look, I know you’re not a student at the College of Arts and Sciences where the program is located, but we have this opportunity here that we’re not sure yet, but it might be able to pay for your tuition.” So, again, just knocking on different doors, calling for informational meetings. That helped me. I had a conversation with Dr. Carmen Lugo, who was the director of the school. And then when the opportunity came up, I did the interviews.

12:30 José: They liked me because you know, it was managing the language labs. I speak different languages. So that helped, and I got that opportunity, and, you know, I was even willing to do it without the tuition reimbursement. And then she pulled through, and then I had tuition covered for that. So, I was making that relationship from afar, but since I got here, I think it also helped the fact that I moved to Washington like three months before school started. So, that also meant that I could be trained to run the laboratory. And then that gave me an edge over perhaps other students that were remote when I was already local and chomping at the bit.

Being Proactive About Financial Needs and Knocking on Doors

13:16 Emily: I think this is a great lesson here for any prospective or current graduate students they can pull out. Now, obviously, you were a non-traditional student, and you had all these advantages from your past career and your past education that, you know, might or might not exist in other people who are listening. But, what you did and what they could do is that you were really proactive about two things. One, letting people know about your financial needs or concerns. Hey, I really want to get tuition covered if I can, would love to receive a stipend. I don’t know if those exactly were the conversations you were having, but I need some funding. Is there any way that I can get that? And as you said, just really knocking on a lot of doors, talking to a lot of different people about what you can offer them, and what you would need from them. And that ended up working out, as you said, with this, is it fair to say it was an assistantship, or like what kind of position?

14:06 José: It was an assistantship. Definitely a graduate assistantship. And to your point, it wasn’t the sign to be offered to graduate students outside of that home school. But because of some, you know, the fact that I was persistent. I was there, they knew me already, just as, you know, just in person having shown up, shaken hands, and done a lot of personal bonding, I was top of mind. And, I think to your point also, the age, being non-traditional. I think there’s an assumption of a certain level of maybe gravitas or just seriousness about the purpose of saying, you know, he’s not going to be, you know, calling in sick much. In fact, never did. So, you know, I think that gave me an edge, but that wasn’t the only pump that I was priming.

15:00 José: I made it a point to be known specifically by the graduate school, precisely by, you know, saying, “Look, this is where I am. Where can I access opportunities? You know, where can I access support?” Whether it’s for clothing for an interview, food security, help with financial aid, help with navigating so many expenses, maybe getting some housing support, energy conservation. So, a lot of things I checked just to, you know, as they say, you know, stretch a buck and make it scream, right? And really, you know, getting people to know who I was, what I needed, and what I was pursuing, especially as far as what my interests were. I always made sure that, you know, I had somebody that I could call on afterwards or would call me.

New Opportunities During COVID

15:52 José: And that actually came into place once the COVID pandemic initially happened, because the whole campus was sent home. And now I was residing on campus, but then my job meant that I, you know, it was a student-facing position, and since there were no students, there was no income. Hence, that position was eliminated during COVID. And that also meant that I had to pivot quickly because it was a program that I thought would carry me throughout my years here. And then there was no funding after the first year. So, having seeded the grounds with other people, I was able to, through the graduate school, find out that there was an opportunity at the Emeritus Society, which is the professors at Washington State University who have retired there have a social group, a support group, and where they come together and they had a position that was vacant to handle their events.

17:01 José: And it was a lot of challenges because it was an older demographic. And this was my second year, so the entire 2021 of the pandemic. So, everything was done remotely, and getting some of these people working on Zoom for the first time in their lives was a work in progress. But they were just such a wonderful experience, and always, and to this day still follow up on what I’m doing. So, I felt very much that it was stressful in the sense that, you know, there was a moment there between March and April of 2020 that I just said, you know, what do I do now? And then, you know, I was able to get that opportunity. And again, because of the fact that I was known on campus and known inside of my department, I had one of my professors who gave me an internship for that summer. And then I transitioned into this assistantship for my second year.

18:05 Emily: Love it. So, now we’ve seen this strategy work for you two times for your first year, and then for your second and third year, it sounded like?

18:11 José: Well, it was for my second year. So, it’s an interesting, again, interesting turn of events because of the fact that I am proactive, like you mentioned, as far as getting myself known and finding out different resources. So, for my third year, I had already accumulated a fair amount of scholarships that I had applied for and won. So, you know, about 18 different support awards from institutions that support recovered individuals like myself that overcame health conditions, to just competitive scholarships, to then even Washington State Employees’ Credit Union, which is my credit union. They have a program that they support their own members. It’s a competitive one, but it’s also one that I applied and won for consecutive years. So, I had a little bit accumulated for there.

19:11 José: And then because of, again, having talked to different people, there was a faculty position that opened up at the College of Business. Mind you, my college is a college of education, okay? But at the College of Business, they had a need to teach finance and entrepreneurship. And one of the people that I had known, one of the professors called me up and said, you know, “Is it okay if I recommend you for this adjunct, you know, position that’s there? I I think you have a rich business administration background and you can make it happen.” And I didn’t need to think twice about it when they <laugh> when they interviewed me, because it’s very unusual that you would find a graduate student also operating at a faculty level, right? That you could be, I was a student working on my dissertation, but I was also teaching and developing something for my profile.

20:06 José: So, I ended up my last year, I could have stayed a second year with the Emeritus Association, but given the fact that I was given such a great opportunity, they even welcomed the fact that, “Hey, you should pursue that.” And then I ended up teaching for two semesters in the business school. That brought in funding, and then I had enough of the scholarship that would pay for my tuition. So, I was able to potentially coast the rest of the way financially. It wasn’t easy, but it was done.

Commercial

20:42 Emily: Emily here for a brief interlude. If you are a fan of this podcast, I invite you to check out the Personal Finance for PhDs Community at PFforPhDs.community. The Community is for PhDs and people pursuing PhDs who want to take charge of their personal finances by opening and funding an IRA, starting to budget, aggressively paying off debt, financially navigating a life or career transition, maximizing the income from a side hustle, preparing an accurate tax return, and much more. Inside the Community, you’ll have access to a library of financial education products, including my recent set of Wealthy PhD Workshops. There is also a discussion forum, monthly live calls with me, and progress journaling for financial goals. Basically, the Community exists to help you reach your financial goals, whatever they are. Go to pfforphds.community to find out more. I can’t wait to help propel you to financial success! Now back to the interview.

High Success Rate with Scholarships

21:48 Emily: I want to pull three elements out from what you just said because I do not want the listeners to miss this. So, one, we talked earlier about you being proactive and knocking on many doors and talking with many people and letting them know what you can do for them and what you need from them. But what you said in there, and what you know, came into play again when the pandemic started, is that you developed these connections before you needed them urgently, right? You said you moved to campus a few months ahead of the other students so that you were a known face and a known entity by the time, Oh, this position is opening up, like that seems like it would be a good fit. They already knew you before the pandemic started. All that work that you had done before, continued to do, when that pivot needed to happen, you had already laid the groundwork and you had the resources in place. So, it’s almost like analogous to having an emergency fund. Like doing this networking for your career before you urgently need it is similar to keeping a cash emergency fund in your finances before you encounter an emergency that you would draw on that for. So, that’s point number one. Point number two, you said you won 18 scholarships. How many did you apply for <laugh>, do you know, to get those 18?

22:58 José: Well, I have a pretty good success rate on those. And again, I mean, you know how time is of the essence when you are a graduate student. So, I had to screen a lot of them and then make sure that, at least on paper, I had an above-average chance, you know. Just based whether, I didn’t apply for everything that was out there. Some of those came as direct referrals from the graduates school here at the WSU. So, they were internal competitions that you applied for, especially the teaching awards. So, meaning that there were scholarships available for students who were looking to expand pedagogy and become better classroom teachers. So, a lot of those came in through the internal graduate school at Washington State University.

23:50 José: But the external ones, I would say that, I just don’t want to create the wrong expectation. I probably ended up applying to about 25. So, I got to most of them because I would do the pre-screening, and I didn’t want to be wasting a lot of time either writing big essays for small dollars. So, there was also, my sweet spot was maybe focusing on ones that were between $2,500 and $5,000, because that made it meaningful. A lot of those, the money can only be used for school-related expenses. So, it’s not like you can take it out and, you know, have a party. So, that’s why you can see that that served as my nest for my last year, where even though the faculty position didn’t pay for tuition, I had enough money accumulated that did that. And then I just had to worry about my day-to-day expenses, which I did just based on the income that I received, whether assistantship or teaching. And I also did a little bit of thrift shopping on the side just to kind of like buy cheap and try to sell. That’s where the spending money came from.

25:02 Emily: Well, I’m so happy to hear that you were so strategic about those scholarship selections and the applications, and I feel like we could do an entire other interview about that strategy. Because it obviously worked out so well for you and you were, you know, judicious about how you used your time. And I just love everything you mentioned. So, that was a value-packed, you know, response there that I didn’t want the listeners to miss. And then the third point that I wanted to pull out was that you, you know, you’ve had now from what you described, two assistantships or the faculty position, non-assistantship. One assistantship, another faculty position that were not within your own school of education. And I just don’t want the listeners to have like a limiting belief around who on campus might or might not be able and willing to hire them based on these bureaucratic boundaries that may exist. So, I love your example of how you were able to, you know, cross those boundaries again because of the work you did earlier, getting known by all these people. So, I just wanted listeners to have that as well.

Learning About Financial Resources Early On

25:58 Emily: Is there anything else that you want to add about, you know, how you managed financially during the PhD? We’ve already gotten a few different details, but anything more?

26:10 José: Well, I think one of the more important things, which actually, you know, I met you, or started following your advice even before I had gotten accepted to graduate school. So, I think the importance of obtaining information so that you know what’s realistic, what’s out there, you know, what services, you know, at least populating yourself with enough information with the resources that you provide. When I was having discussions with the graduate school, and I would encourage everybody to just, regardless of where they go, I think their first stop should be the graduate school, just because they have a direct connection with you. They know where different opportunities are. They can show you, as they did, “Look, you know, there’s this whole list of information that if you fill out just a standard application, we’re going to put you in the lot to win or be eligible for some of these awards.”

27:14 José: So, it’s something that you just need to show up and do it, you know? And it’s there. So, I can’t imagine that being the process in every single school, but they’re there. They’re there for you. So, the fact that they, you know, I was able to go there and I had enough information based on your podcast, based on your personal opinions, that I could go and say, “Look, you know, this is what I need and I’ve already done my, you know, four-year span. These are kind of like the expenses that I’m seeing, you know, can I get some support here? Can I get some support there?” And even if they say no, it’s still you’re learning through this process and you know where the other resources are. And I find people want to help you.

27:56 José: They want to help you if you’re willing to put in the effort. And, you know, so I would just encourage people to do that. Even with your research, when you’re at WSU, the fact that I was in the multidisciplinary research allowed me to qualify to other experiences including summer internships. I did a summer internship with a first-gen-focused institution in Nashville. And that wasn’t necessarily initially my focus, because my focus was mostly on using technology to help individuals with disabilities. But I pivoted into first-gens because of that experience. And that gave me not only contacts in that industry, but also an opportunity of being able to do field research that then became the basis of my doctoral dissertation here at Washington State.

28:47 Emily: So amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that message. It actually is a reflection of something I heard back in the interview I did specifically for international students. A very similar message to them, which was get to know your designated school official, like we were talking about earlier, before you run into a financial crisis that of course, international students have many more restrictions on how they can earn money and whether they can take out student loans and all these issues. But get to know the people who know the resources, have access to the resources in advance, so that when, you know, if you see a crisis approaching or like you, your income source dried up, then you know who you can go to. They already aware of you. Maybe they’ve been keeping an eye out for opportunities for you. So, incredible message.

Completing the PhD Without Taking on Student Debt

29:28 Emily: I understand that you ultimately were able to complete your PhD without taking on any student debt from all of the, you know, avenues of funding that we talked about. Can you tell me about what that means to you to have been able to accomplish that?

29:44 José: Well, it was you know, I’m still a little bit giggly about that because it wasn’t the case. I mean, when I first came here, and mind you, I landed in Pullman, Washington. I actually drove here in April of 2019. And I was perfectly, not perfectly I should say that, but at least I was resigned that this might put me in a hole for at least a hundred thousand dollars. Just in the way that I had nothing written down. I had nothing committed. You know, and it was, it was very humbling saying, “Okay, I’m going to start dipping into these FAFSA funds because I just don’t have any income. And I did that for the first six weeks, and then, you know, things started coming along and then I was able to contain that initial debt. I never really added to it, carried it and then, you know, then got some scholarship funding that allowed me not only to start paying down on it, but then eventually, you know, with my stipend, being able to wipe it clean.

30:53 José: And I know there’s some who say, “Oh, if you had left it there, you probably would’ve eliminated now with some of the Washington DC funding.” But it’s okay. I mean, I think now I don’t have it. I feel much stronger. My credit score is probably almost 70 basis points higher than when I began the program. Precise, because I was not only able to keep those expenses down, but also pay down on expenses or debt that I carried from my past. And again, I’m just very grateful to you and some of the people that you’ve introduced me through your program and your podcast, including your brother as far as support that I receive to make sure that I’m lining myself up for eventual homeownership opportunities, now that I’m facing a future where I have finally some steady income, a new career, and just life outside of campus.

31:53 Emily: I’m so happy to hear that. I’m so pleased. You’re giving me a lot of credit here. But I think it was a lot. I mean, we had one conversation, but it’s a lot of the podcasts and other things that I’ve put out there. So, I’m so pleased that you’ve been using that, and I wasn’t even necessarily aware of that the whole time. One note, this is not necessarily advice for you, but for anybody who is listening at this point. This is going to come out in fall 2022. If you paid down federal student loan debt during the pandemic, which it sounds like you did, José, you can actually request a refund from your loan servicer up to the 10 or $20,000 of forgiveness that we are expecting to come through this fall. And so, if you want to do that, you could actually get that refund and then get the debt wiped away. So whatever that amount is, maybe it’s $10,000, you could actually have that in your pocket if you wanted to go ahead and do that. Not necessarily saying you have to, because I know there’s a lot of pleasure you receive from, you know, having not only paid off that student loan debt that you took at the beginning, but it sounds like you also paid down some of your other debt, which is incredible. But I just want the listeners to know that opportunity is there if they did pay off debt during the pandemic.

32:59 José: Well, thank you. I’ll be paying close attention to that upcoming podcast for sure. That may be, it’ll be an early celebration of Christmas.

Next Steps in Career and in Finances

33:08 Emily: Yeah, that sounds great. Okay. Second to last question here. What is next for you in your career and in your finances?

33:15 José: Well, I think as I indicated earlier, a lot of my journey, especially in these past few years where I’ve had to rely upon, because of the fact that I was not financially independent, I had to rely upon other people for support and show them, right? That I was worthy of the trust, and in some cases, that I was worthy of the positions that they had given me. I have an obligation now to pass forward some of those benefits that I received. And I say that because then I was originally catering or focusing in on getting into classrooms. And my focus was to go into kind of like the greater Appalachian region of the United States, which there’s a lot of financial need, there’s a lot of mentoring need for, you know, just really wonderful individuals who just don’t have the support at home and guidance to be able to know what college is all about.

34:19 José: And then they’re at risk, even if they get accepted, of not fitting in and then dropping out. So, I can make an impact in their lives. So, I was heading in that direction. And then I got a call from a non-profit that I worked with in the past that wanted me to see if I could stay behind in Washington State to help the lower-income agricultural communities in Washington State. There’s a lot of mostly Hispanic and Native American communities in the greater Yakima Valley. That allows me an opportunity of combining both my educational focus as well as my business administration to help those communities in terms of obtaining funding for school, of obtaining funding to start off their own businesses, of navigating some of their citizenship limitations. And it also allows me to stay close to, I have two daughters, one actually who was Natalia, my oldest who graduated here, I was able to graduate simultaneously with her, so that that was an extra benefit of coming to Washington State.

35:27 José: And in fact, we both walked together in May. She’s now living in Seattle. I have my youngest that lives at home with her mom in Vancouver. So, me being able to stay here in Washington State a couple of years and working where there’s a need for not only role models, but hard skills in financial and agricultural businesses. I can make an impact in a lot of financial ways and also personally meaningful ways, and still maintain contact with the important people in my life.

36:02 Emily: I’m so pleased. That’s so wonderful. I’m so glad you got that opportunity to stay there in Washington and do that mission-driven work. So happy!

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

36:11 Emily: Okay, last question for you. What is your best financial advice for another early-career PhD? And that could be something that we have already touched on in this interview, or it could be something completely new.

36:22 José: Well, I think again, you and I both share the perspective of knowing what it’s like to be in the hole, shall we say. And I think that that might be more meaningful, you know, to focus in on that because it’s such a threatening time and humbling time you know. Because you can think everything you want about your accomplishments and what you’re doing, but you’re still faced with the reality of how do you make ends meet and how do you survive. So, I think still for those of you who are looking, contemplating this journey, or in the middle of this journey, I think some of the things that you talked about before. Don’t be putting any sort of unnecessary limitations of your ability of being able to prosper. And don’t look at it as like I don’t want to get known around as somebody who’s in need.

37:20 José: Or you know, I don’t want to necessarily show the fact that I’m, you know, in financial need. I don’t think people will judge you for that. I think if anything, they see you more as somebody that is very responsible, is not letting the worst-case scenario happen. You’re trying to be proactive about it, and people will support you. I’m telling you, I mean, in my setting here, it’s seen as like, ‘Wow, you’re hungry, and you want to tackle this on and not let that get out of hand for different reasons.” People will find a way of helping you, but you’ve got to show up and you’ve got to do the work. They’re not going to give you a handout, because that’s just not, well, that’s just not necessarily the type of image that you want to command.

38:06 José: So, I will go back to what you were alluding to. Just knock on different doors. Don’t be afraid when they say no, it’s not a rejection necessarily. It’s just more of an issue of prioritization and saying, well, maybe it’s not the door that you need to do, but at least you leave a good presence so that in the future if something were to come up, they do call you. And I’ve seen that happen in my case, right? So, I would also say that you also want to make sure that you craft a very good message so that when people meet you, they not only remember who you are, but they want to know what you’re passionate about and how you’re helping yourself and others in that. Because then they make the connection and say, “Oh, wait a second, Emily likes to promote advance in higher education and she’s got this network. We just got this grant. Let’s call her.” So you’re ready, they immediately connect as opposed to saying, “Well, he’s just, or José’s just a student in need.” You want to make sure that they have some memorable talk points about what it is that you’re pursuing, your research, your career focus, the communities that you want to help out with.

39:20 Emily: That’s such a perfect encapsulation of like the main messages that we’ve gotten through this interview. I’m so happy to hear that like last articulation. And to put it kind of with some of my own words there, you demonstrated and what you’re encouraging other people to demonstrate, is resourcefulness. And the university does have a lot of resources, <laugh>, and they may be, you know, in different little pockets and they may be unknown. And you have to go around and talk with people and network and, as you said, let them know what you can do for them and what you bring to the table. I noticed this pattern also when I’ve spoken about negotiation of graduate student stipends. And like, in a way, what you were doing was negotiation, except they didn’t even know that they were making you an offer yet, right?

40:00 Emily: Like you were just out there trying to get those offers. What I noticed when I talk with graduate students about negotiation is that they usually do open up very vulnerably about their finances. This is the need. Hey, this is the cost of living going on. I really don’t think that this offer was sufficient to meet this cost of living. And also in some cases, oh, look what I’m bringing to the table. Okay, I’m bringing in a fellowship, I’m bringing outside money. I’m bringing in your case, a whole career, you know, a first career’s worth of work experience, graduate degrees, insights. So yeah, as you said, just leave a good impression, like let them know what you’re about and what you need. And in the future, belaying those seeds and in the future they may be able to come back to you with some kind of offer. And your case, it’s worked out over and over and over again. And I’m so glad that we captured that story in this interview. José, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It’s been a pleasure to have you.

40:48 José: Well, I’m very blessed to be here, Emily. And I thank you for four years of putting up with me and such wonderful advice. And I’m just glad that, you know, I’m able to demonstrate what you do when you put into effect the guidance that you’ve shared with us remotely and in my case remotely and in person.

41:10 Emily: Thank you!

Outtro

41:16 Emily: Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by Lourdes Bobbio and show notes creation by Meryem Ok.