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This PhD Candidate-Parent Draws Financial Support from Her State, Her Union, and More

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In this episode, Emily interviews Madeline Hebert, a 5th-year PhD candidate at the University of Connecticut and married mother of a toddler and newborn. Madeline shares how her money mindset has changed over the last several years, from poring over every last expense in her budget to investing in frugal strategies and increasing her income through fellowships and paid projects. She also details the systems from which she has drawn financial support, chiefly through state childcare benefits and her grad student union. The total value of these benefits is so high that Madeline chose not to pursue a $100k one-year fellowship because it would have negatively impacted her family’s bottom line.

Links mentioned in the Episode

This PhD Candidate-Parent Draws Financial Support from Her State, Her Union, and More

Teaser

Madeline (00:00): I found myself applying for like every single award, grant, um, scholarship. And before I would let imposter syndrome affect it a lot more being like, oh, like I’m not qualified or I don’t fit that or whatnot. But instead now I’m like, I need money. I’m taking every single opportunity I can get.

Introduction

Emily (00:21): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (00:51): This is Season 25, Episode 2, and today my guest is Madeline Hebert, a 5th-year PhD candidate at the University of Connecticut and married mother of a toddler and newborn. Madeline shares how her money mindset has changed over the last several years, from poring over every last expense in her budget to investing in frugal strategies and increasing her income through fellowships and paid projects. She also details the systems from which she has drawn financial support, chiefly through state childcare benefits and her grad student union. The total value of these benefits is so high that Madeline chose not to pursue a $100k one-year fellowship because it would have negatively impacted her family’s bottom line.

Emily (01:41): Let’s talk fellowship taxes for a minute here. These action items are for you if you recently switched or will soon switch onto non-W-2 fellowship income as a grad student, postdoc, or postbac; you are a US citizen, resident, or resident for tax purposes; and you are not having income tax withheld from your stipend or salary. Action item #1: Fill out the Estimated Tax Worksheet on p. 12 of IRS Form 1040-ES. This worksheet will estimate how much income tax you will owe in 2026 and tell you whether you are required to make manual tax payments on a quarterly basis. The next quarterly estimated tax due date is September 15, 2026. Action item #2: Whether you are required to make estimated tax payments or pay a lump sum at time tax, open a separate, named savings account for your future tax payments. Calculate the fraction of each paycheck that will ultimately go toward tax and set up an automated recurring transfer from your checking account to your tax savings account to prepare for that bill. This is what I call a system of self-withholding, and I suggest putting it in place starting with your very first fellowship paycheck so that you don’t get into a financial bind when the payment deadline arrives. If you need some help with the Estimated Tax Worksheet or want to ask me a question, please consider joining my workshop, Quarterly Estimated Tax for Fellowship Recipients. It explains every line of the worksheet and answers the common questions that PhD trainees have about estimated tax. The workshop includes video content, a spreadsheet, and invitations to at least one live Q&A call each quarter this tax year. The last live Q&A call for this quarter is today, Monday, September 14, 2026. If you want to purchase this workshop as an individual, go to PFforPhDs.com/QEtax/. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s25e2/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Madeline Hebert.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

Emily (04:08): I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today a repeat podcast guest, Madeline Hebert. She is a rising fifth year PhD candidate at the University of Connecticut and was last on the podcast in season 16, episode one, talking about having her first child very early on in graduate school and how she budgeted for all of that and figured out childcare. And we’re gonna be revisiting some of those same topics, but in, you know, a few years further along in this episode because Madeline has now had her second child during graduate school, um, and has, you know, that’s really changed her thinking about, um, things related to money. So Madeline, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. Will you please introduce yourself a little bit further for the audience?

Madeline (04:50): Thanks. Yes. Um, my name is Madeline Hebert. I am a fifth year graduate student at the University of Connecticut, and I have two children now. One who is two and a half, will be three in August and the other one was born on, in February. So I’m really excited to be back here. I study LGBTQ youth, um, and interested in public policy, intervention prevention for them. And then my husband, he’s a telemetry worker. He’s also now a student himself and he has been working an hourly rate and now is about to go down to, um, about like per diem, what they call, is what they call it.

Emily (05:28): And what’s he studying?

Madeline (05:29): He is, um, he just got entered, uh, accepted into a dental hygienist program. It’s at the local community college and we’re really excited about that because yeah, he’s really excited to get to change career um, transitions basically.

Parenthood and Its Impact on Your Money Mindset

Emily (05:43): Awesome. Well, let’s get into it. Our last interview fell at a really like interesting stage because you, at the time of the art interview, you were pregnant, um, with the first baby. And obviously, you know, that, that stage is what it is and you’re a parent already, but now you’re a parent in a much different way <laugh> having two babies out in the world in childcare, you know, you have to balance everything with your, your work and all that. So just, you know, give us your thoughts now about how your view of money has changed, you know, in the past few years, um, with these life stages.

Madeline (06:15): I think that like at the beginning, I used to be super really anxious about money and I was doing like a l – I was following like a lot of the budgeting and itemization and looking back behind and, um, and that was really useful for the time. But now with like two children, it’s much more difficult and stressful, I think, to do like all the item line by line and to take the time and have the time to be budgeting like that. So I find that instead thinking about money in a very global sense, being like, okay, I know how much I’m generally going to be making this month and we try to stick to that expenditure within the month and we kind of more so like maybe once a week I’ll look at my app and be like, okay, like we are either above or below what I think that we should be for having spent for that month. But that has also reduced a lot of financial anxiety and has also helped a lot with being able to manage like, okay, are we able to spend what we need?

Madeline (07:10): Also thinking about money as like, okay, I have to buy things in a very cost effective way. So we signed up for a Costco membership, which at the upfront is a bit more expensive and we’re very fortunate to be able to cover that cost because in the end we’re ending up saving a lot on buying in bulk and buying shelf stable foods and buying, um, things like freezer, large amounts of meat that we can freeze and use throughout the month kind of thing. So we kind of now shop monthly. So that’s also kind of affected my, the way that I think about money. And then like literally just finding every single way to make money, um, from a kind, not from a side hustle perspective, because again, like when you have kids, your time becomes very precious and very limited I have found, but at the same time it’s much more intentional. And so instead it’s more kind of like, not even passive income, but making use of a high yield savings account and taking advantage of entry, um, entry modes for the fact that I travel at least twice a year for conferences, I invested in a travel, um, the, a travel credit card that is a little bit, again, pricey at the upfront, but then I essentially am being paid to have it because of how much I’m using it and the benefits that it’s giving me and the, um, travel credits that it’s given me. And so things like that, um, I’ve been taking advantage of. Um, I’m also been trying to find, I found myself applying for like every single award, grant, um, scholarship. And before I would let imposter syndrome affect it a lot more being like, oh, like I’m not qualified or I don’t fit that or whatnot. But instead now I’m like, I need money. <laugh> I’m taking every single opportunity I can get. I’m trying to, I find myself having to try to hop onto every single like project that I have the capacity for and I have to be much more intentional about which projects I sign up for because again, that time’s limited and I’ve had to turn down some opportunities in fact because they were not paid. I have to be like very upfront and being like, I’m sorry, but I’m looking for a paid summer, um, project to work on and to help with. But that’s also led to me reaching out to other faculty who I might not have reached out to before because I knew that they had funding and I tried to find ways that, in which my own research could fit into their project. So this way I could also be of hireable help in the, in other words.

Madeline (09:34): So that’s been kind of interesting because that relationship with money I’ve found has also affected my relationship with my research in trying to be like, okay, I need a project and a research interest that helps me also create a path forward in careers that are more popular in the higher paying industry. So moving towards a public policy research prevention intervention space has allowed me to be looking into more government type jobs and looking into public policy related jobs, public health jobs. So that’s something that was also kind of a, I am interested in it, but also because the way of my relationship with money now I’m moving towards that as well.

Emily (10:17): I think all of those shifts that you just mentioned are really positive and ones that probably other grad students, whether they’re parents or not, probably need to be moving in those directions. I mean, understanding that like your work and research has to have some market value, like yeah, of course it does, like especially moving out of graduate school or out of academia. I wanna take some of the things that you just mentioned piece by piece, um, because again, I do think these are all like really positive evolutions, um, maybe for you motivated by becoming a parent, but also again, something that other people can learn from whether they’re in that situation or not. And the first one you mentioned was about like sort of getting out of the weeds of, um, super detailed tracking or like daily basis kind of tracking and getting up into the, um, how can I have a longer term view of my money and of frugality so that you are, as you were kind of saying, like it’s okay if something costs more upfront if it’s able to help you spend less over time. And that is something that I think maybe can take some time for people to make that leap because they do need to get out of the like s- serious paycheck to paycheck cycle to be able to do something like purchase a Costco membership or, you know, pay the upfront annual fee for a travel credit card. But it is possible for a lot of people who to start taking that longer view. So I’m really, um, glad that you mentioned that. Do you think, because I have also made the shift dur – I also made the shift during graduate school. Do you think it was necessary to be in the weeds for a period of time before making that jump? Or do you think, mm, I could have just taken this like higher level view from the beginning and that would’ve been better?

Madeline (11:58): I think that was really beneficial. I’m not entirely sure if it was necessary per se, but I do think that for me it was really beneficial because it helped me get a good grip of like, okay, this is how much I can spend. I tend to think of very black and white thinking. So saying, okay, I have $20 to spend this week on snacks really makes me aware of like, okay, how much have I gone to Starbucks this week? But then it also gives me this freedom to say, oh, if I want Starbucks, I have like X amount of money still to set aside to spend on myself. Whereas now I’m like, okay, like I know that I want to go and spend money on myself, but now I’m a little bit more like, okay, like, well, where are we a little bit and want to check in with my husband about it? And then, but because I have a husband to also kind of like talk about finances with, it has made it to where we do have to talk about like, okay, like, do we want to set aside a little bit of money or make sure that we have spent roughly an allocation of particular amount of that monthly bu – higher budget? But because he works an hourly job, so some months he’s only worked like a full three weeks instead of four weeks or we travel for two weeks, like that is a constantly shifting number. So it helps us to not be like, oh, well, this week we don’t have this much or it reduces a lot of the anxiety around there by not having that, um, minutia or minute, um, examination of the numbers.

Emily (13:24): I think probably you’ve also most likely dialed in your larger necessary expenses, um, and you’ve become very familiar with them over the time that you’ve been in graduate school so that, um, you don’t have to pay as much attention to those really, really tiny expenses if the, if the large ones are dialed in appropriately. I know we’re gonna talk about childcare a little bit later on, but can you share with us how, like, your housing has changed over that period of time?

Changes In Fixed Expenses: Housing, Food, Internet, & Streaming Services

Madeline (13:51): It’s funny that you mentioned it because the housing changed after the childcare changed. So originally we were living in a one bedroom, um, apartment and it was about 1,400 starting off in every year it would increase about $50. So that was a pretty, like, manageable increase. And, um, that has now actually increased to an apartment that is about 1,800 now, now 1,900, just recently, 1,945 for our two bedroom apartment, two bathroom apartment, which, which has honestly been, like, much higher quality of life for us though. Um, but that changed. Our food has been still roughly around 300, some months 400 to 500, but we don’t go out very- I find that we swapped going out to, like, a nice restaurant for more Taco Bell and McDonald’s kind of restaurants, and maybe once a month we’ll actually go out to a real restaurant. Um, and so those kind of expenditures have changed. They, but it still feels like we’re going out to eat. It still feels like, oh, we’re not, like, cooking every single night. Um, but my husband makes a very good point that very often we do cook, probably more so than a lot of our peers that he finds. Um, and so, like, just about every night he cooks or we have a, like, leftovers. Um, and so that, um, has gone down. Trying to bundle, like, expenses for, like, streaming services usually. He’s got, like, for example, Disney through his phone bill. I realized that our internet service was doing, like, another deal. It had increased after, like, that two-year promotional contract, but then I found out that I’ve, every now and then I check. And so by doing that, I found out, “Oh, wait, they’re doing a new promotion that’s actually cheaper than what I’m currently paying. Let me get in on that, and now I pay less again for my internet.” So s- some small things like that. Those are our biggest expenses, that electricity, water. We don’t really spend much on, on other things. Those are kind of the big bucket spending things I find.

Emily (15:52): Yeah, it’s really good that you’re paying attention to those fixed expenses, like, you know, phone bill, internet bill, these kinds of things. Like you said, you just have to touch base, like, maybe once a quarter, you know, one, once every, you know, twice a year, something like that. And then you can find those opportunities. And it doesn’t have to be the daily checking in, right, like you sometimes would do with your variable expenses. Now, there was another, um, sort of big category you mentioned earlier in your answer, which is about, um, increasing your income has become much more of a priority for you, um, having the children. And again, I think this makes a lot of sense that the general grad student evolution, and of course, thinking forward to your next stage in your career. I really like that you mentioned that you used to feel some, um, imposter phenomenon and now you’re just like, “I have to get through it because I just need the money. I just have to apply anyway.” Um, can you expand on that a little bit more, like, maybe how you look for opportunities?

Finding Opportunities to Earn Extra Income During Grad School

Madeline (16:44): My department, they tend to do, like, a little weekly announcement being like, “So-and-so, congrats. They got some sort of award.” Um, it’s been making me, like, they, we also get these, like, daily digests that are super annoying, honestly, but they also offer, like, a rewards and fellowship, scholarship opportunities. And I, every single day now, I s – just scan it being like, “Hmm, is there anything that looks like it might be worth my while to go look into?” Um, if I hear that so-and-so got, like, an assistantship with a professor, I’m like, “Hey, um, can, I was wondering if you think that they might have a little bit, if they might be still looking for people or, um, is there, like, anything that might need assistance on?” Um, just, also just remembering, okay, like, every single time I’m reminded that there’s yearly of scholarship awards, I apply for every single one that I can. And I try not to get in my head by being like, “Oh, well, like, do I deserve to apply for, like, the financial need-based scholarship? Do I, um, is it bad that I’m asking for government assistance?” So, like, I know that my state offers, um, financial assistance for winter heating, even if your heating is included in your rent. It offers assistance for diapers, it offers assistance. My university has, like, a parent resource event once a semester, and I go attend that and I make sure I grab some diapers and some, and some wipes and stuff. So, like, not trying to get the shame and the guilt and all that encumbered, and instead being like, “Okay, like, these are things that I need to take advantage of so that this way, like, I don’t have to spend these expenditures later on.”

Emily (18:16): I’m so glad you brought that up, because it’s actually a theme I’ve been exploring in some other podcast interviews recently, and also in the writing that I’m doing about kind of getting past the mental blocks that might tell you this assistance being offered is not for me, or I do not deserve to avail myself of these resources. Um, and just, like, from an outside perspective, like, you haven’t even mentioned how much money you make or anything, but, like, you’re a PhD student, your husband’s now, like, working part-time and going to school. Like, you all are investing in yourselves, in your education, in your professional development right now, and that’s something that our society should support. And for goodness sakes, you got two children too. So, like, let’s support this family as you’re all growing and developing, and that will make you so much more successful and able to, you know, contribute so much to society, both of you, all four of you, um, in the future. And so, it just makes sense to me that, like, that people make these resources available and that you should take advantage of them, um, and as much as possible, get out of your feelings about it. Like you’ve said, that you’ve really been trying to, like, push past. So, like.

Commercial

Emily (19:25): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, budgeting, or designing your financial life, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer live workshops, asynchronous online courses, and cohort-based programs on these topics, and I’m now booking for the 2026-2027 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, medical school, postdoc office, or postdoc association? My workshops are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Connecticut’s Government Assistant Program: Care 4 Kids

Emily (20:54): Let’s move on to then talking about, like, what are the sort of helps and, and systems and resources that you have noticed around you, especially since becoming a parent, um, and just go through them, like, one by one, because other people may, you know, see similar things in their own surroundings.

Madeline (21:10): Perhaps the biggest number one support, um, system besides my family itself is probably, um, this, honestly, the state government assistance and that exists within Connecticut. So the Connecticut, um, offers a, what they call Care 4 Kids program, which is a state subsidy program for childcare that the, the kind of effect that it’s had, it has reduced a childcare that normally is, like, around at least 1400 up to $2,000 per kid down to, like, $200 for our family. Um, and so, like, you can hear, like, just how enormous of a difference and shift of financial, um, freedom that that allows, and financial flexibility that that kind of assistance allows. Um, so that has been just monumentally incredible for allowing us to be able to move into our two bedroom apartment, to be able to continue buying healthy foods for ourselves, to make sure that we’re able to sustain ourselves, not only in just not, to where we’re not just surviving, but we’re actually being able to still thrive to some degree. And so –

Emily (22:14): May I ask, um, because on the last interview that you gave, I, I believe you were talking about how you had chosen, like, a campus affiliated daycare. That I think maybe was sliding scale, if I’m remembering correctly. Um, did you not know about the state system at that point? Or, like, when did that s- When did you kinda, like, plug into that?

Madeline (22:31): That’s a good question, because I don’t remember if I didn’t know about the state assistance back then or not. I don’t think I did. I think that I learned about it a couple of months in, and that’s actually been a really tricky thing, because the state system requires you. They, they prioritize parents who are working, they prioritize parents who are working, and students. So, PhD student, um, parent, really great candidate. Um, but it also has income caps where you have to make, um, to get in, you have to make around, like, 65% of the state median income, and then once you’re in, you can make up to 85% of the state median income to remain in the program. And so, but they base it off of either what you make yearly or what you make monthly. And so what I make monthly, because I’m a student with a stipend amount monthly, it looks much higher, even though yearly I’m not being paid for three months. So in reality, I have to essentially save away a portion of my income for, to cover this summer month. So what I ended up doing is I applied it as an annual income, and I indicate that I’m being paid essentially annually because that would reduce how much I’m being shown to be m- making for the monthly expense, which allowed us to be able to enter into the program. But that’s really tricky because if you don’t realize that you can and need to do that as a graduate student, especially on this kind of contract system, then you look like you’re making too much and you don’t qualify. Literally, when it first happened, it looked like I was like, “You’re, like, $20 over. You don’t qualify.” And so for actually, like, up until probably in January, maybe even March of the first year, we were paying, like, $900 every single month. And that’s only because I divided what is a 10-month tuition rate, um, across a 12-month, um, span.

Emily (24:22): So at the time that you first applied, you had to be at 65% of the median income for the state or lower. Um, and it sounds like, you know, y- you figured out a way to present your income accurately, um, but so that it showed that. And then after that point, you would be permitted to increase your income. So when you’ve talked about, like, applying for more fellowships or, like, applying to, you know, have additional assistantships or, or what have you, that has not bumped you above that 85%, it sounds like.

Madeline (24:47): Correct. Correct.

Emily (24:48): So it’s a little bit of a game of, like, we wanna increase the income, but we know there’s a ceiling at some point.

Madeline (24:53): Yes. And that part of that was when we were like, “You know what? Now’s a great time for my husband to drop down from being full-time to part-time and so, and become a student, so this way our income cannot go above that threshold.” So that- He had already been planning on becoming a student, but the original idea was that he would go after my PhD, but then we were like, “Actually, it’s really beneficial for us to be able to, um, have you go now, so this way we don’t go above that threshold.” So it’s being cognizant of, like, okay, how much are we making now to fit into all these, like, little pieces? It’s like a puzzle game.

A $200 per Month Childcare Bill That Gets Reimbursed

Emily (25:28): I don’t know if your second child has already entered into, um, daycare, but when you have the two in, what’s the total cost gonna be for the household?

Madeline (25:36): So they do what’s called a family fee. And at first, I wasn’t sure about how that would work because the family fee is supposed to be like a percentage of your total income. And it turns out that no matter how many ch – well, at least for our case, having two children in it, it’s still basing upon the family fee itself. So one child now we pay for, and the other child is essentially free, actually. I don’t know what that’s going to look like because every single summer they change daycares because the current, the school affiliated daycare is only open until June, and I still got work in the summer, so they switch daycares and then back, they return back in the fall. And those daycares have different rates, so that’s a little bit complicated. But, um, essentially, we only pay $200, and we were paying $200, and now we still pay $200. So that’s been really incredible.

Emily (26:26): That is incredible. I, I think about, like, you know, when people talk about how, like, you know, the US is one of the only developed countries that doesn’t have, like, early childhood education and all of that. It’s like, wow, Connecticut is doing it at least for these, like, low income, like, residents like you all are. So, again, that’s really, really encouraging that that’s available to you. And, um, something that, you know, people who aspire to become parents during graduate school, if you know that beforehand, you can really look carefully at, you know, the individual universities and the states that they’re in to see what kind of support is gonna be available to you from those different, like, levels. Okay, so you said the main big time support is this childcare program through the state, that’s amazing, but what else has helped you financially?

Madeline (27:08): My union’s been really great as well because they offer also a childcare reimbursement program, or not program, but they have a childcare reimbursement fund. And so, they actually calculate a per kid rate, and because our, um, childcare costs are so low now, we essentially get reimbursed fully for the childcare costs from that funding as well. So, that’s another little bump up that we get, um, from the union every semester.

Emily (27:35): Okay. My mind is, like, blown right now. Like, <laugh> like, okay, childcare, number one, like, I think we talked last time, like, there are several big costs going into, you know, having a child. Childcare, top of the list, leaves also up there, insurance also up there, medical bills, of course, feeding and, and diapering and so forth. But, like, the childcare is, like, the main. Once you get through the whole birth and, and, you know, newborn phase, like, the childcare is the main, main, main big expense. And so, ugh, I’m just so pleased that those resources were available for you, um, because, yeah, you, you wouldn’t have to, you know, take such a huge financial hit for this decision to become a parent during graduate school, so that’s amazing.

Madeline (28:15): The fact of the way that the childcare subsidy program works, the way that my union works is actually a reason that I declined, like, the. Well, I almost had the opportunity. I was, um, in the process of getting interviewed for a job that would pay, like, 100K, honestly, but it had no health insurance, no contracts for any sort of assistance like that. And because it paid so much on paper, I would essentially make myself in, um, ineligible for remaining in the subsidy program. And when I did the math, I came out making less per month, essentially, because of all the additional costs compared to just staying as essentially the idea of the poor graduate student, right? And so that was kind of ironic to me to see, like, the- just the. We don’t talk about it as much, I think, the financial relief that, like, just having certain systems in place, because it doesn’t come on paper that I’m making a lot, but I essentially am receiving the benefit of a much more higher cost than, than what I would be making if I were making much more money.

Madeline (29:21): Especially, especially being pregnant and then expecting to deliver that baby and such. Um, I though about that too. I was like, “What’s the cost of paying marketplace health insurance compared to what my union subsidizes through our employment and everything and what that covers too, because we don’t, we didn’t pay, we don’t pay anything for hospitalizations or anything that comes from hospitalization. Um, and I know that people can pay, like, a couple thousand dollars for having a baby, just like most basic way of having a baby. Um, and we’re really fortunate because our baby ended up in the PICU center right after birth, and it was such a relief to know that we wouldn’t have to really worry about being hit with a extremely high medical bill after that.

Emily (30:05): Oh my goodness. Yes.

Madeline (30:07): Yeah, I, I think that people don’t realize like, oh, like looking at the benefits that a place offers you is, is almost just as important as looking, well, probably just as important as looking at the actual numbers that the place is offering you. That’s what I’ve learned. <laugh>

Emily (30:21): And when you were looking at that job offer, the 100K job offer, would that be like you would’ve left your PhD program and that would’ve been your full-time thing?

Madeline (30:29): Yes. I would’ve taken. I was planning on, um, considering an academic leave of absence because it’s a one-year fellowship to work as like a state governor’s, um, fellow. So I didn’t have the job offer officially, but it was, um, I was in the second round of interviews and then I found out I was pregnant and then I was like, “Oh dear, I need to figure out this before I make serious adjustments.” Um, and part of that was because with all the budget cuts and everything, my department and a lot of departments across, um, the university have been limiting the graduate assistantship hours from a full-time to a 75%. So that was something that I was trying to navigate. And that goes back to that value of money, prioritizing, making sure that my family is cared for and making sure that we’re making enough money versus being like, okay, like not necessarily being like, oh, is this necessarily the best trying to get out of my degree as fast as I can or trying to go on every single project I can. I have to think a little bit differently than I think than I would’ve if I weren’t in this position as a grad student.

Emily (31:26): Mm-hmm. And is that because of basically your limited work hours, like because of the amount of childcare/how much time of course you want to spend with your children? Um, is that the limiting factor is at the time?

Madeline (31:37): I don’t find it’s the time actually. It’s, it really is just making like at 20% we’re able to afford life. It really, and then at 75% we would be going into debt more. And so it’s, it was a waiting game of figuring out like, would I be able to secure a 20-hour assistantship? Would my husband, what is my husband going to be paid at? How many hours is he going to get? How many hours do I need? Just all of the, those small, that’s where my new money calculation into the weeds has gotten into, is to looking at like those kind of things being like, what do we need to be able to afford life at not even like high quality, I would say, but just like being able to be like, okay, we don’t have to fear like going into debt really, um, for just like daily living. And so that was what I was really considering. I was like, oh, like 100K looks really good to be able to know like, oh, I, I’m pretty sure we can, we can survive off of that kind of thing. Um, and how is that gonna look with my husband going to school and having to drop hours potentially because of schooling and stuff? Um, ironically, I find myself to be even more focused and more, working more because of daycare. I’m like, oh, I only have nine to five. I gotta get some work done in this hour. Whereas before I was like, it’s three o’clock. I wanna go nap. I can work later in the evening. And then, and not actually work probably.

Emily (33:02): Yeah. I definitely saw that in graduate school with like the postdocs in my lab who were parents, like who kept very rigid hours but were very efficient when they were there. Any other sort of, um, sources of support that you’ve relied on?

Creating a Village During Grad School

Madeline (33:15): Yes. Um, a lot in the parenting community I find you talk about like creating a village. And so I have found the village through having, finding friends through my daycare, finding friends through literally just seeing people at like the farmer’s market with a kid and being like, “Hey, you have a baby. I have a baby. Let’s be friends.” Um, just finding different ways of support. And so that’s been emotionally, that’s been sometimes even financially, not necessarily that they’re paying us, but for example, when our baby was in the hospital, our friends picked up our oldest. Our friends helped us by, we do family dinner nights now. And so we share in the cost of like eating together, sometimes getting groceries. We go to Costco together. So like sharing in purchases like that sometimes financially has been really beneficial.

Emily (34:01): I think the intangible support though, like, not intangible, the, the tangible support that doesn’t have a dollar sign associated with it, um, is really, really important. And I know you’re long distance from your family and your husband’s family, right? Um, and similarly, when I had my children, we were long distance from all of our family members. And I also created a village with other parents in a similar situation. Uh, there were a lot around. Um, and so actually this has come up in recent interviews as well of like, in that case, my interviewees were talking about how it’s so beneficial to have roommates because you have a built-in support system that’s different than having just friends who you don’t live with. Like yeah, that person’s gonna give you a ride to the airport or like you can share food or what have you. And so you’ve created a similar thing among like the community of parents around you. Makes total sense. And it does, it does boil down to your bottom line eventually because maybe you get those favors, you know, that you would’ve had to pay a babysitter to do, um, otherwise. Or like you’re saying, the time that you would spend like cooking, maybe you only have to do that, you know, half as much as you used to because you’re able to share with your community. Um, it has both a positive like emotional effect as well as ultimately a financial effect.

Madeline (35:11): Yes, it definitely. The babysitting part’s big time because we’ve babysit for each other now and I’m like, that saves like easily 100, $200 because babysitting is not cheap.

Emily (35:21): My, uh, parent, community of parents near me now, uh, our kids are a little bit older, but we’re always like, “It’s easier when there’s other kids over because they just entertain each other and we can, you know, go cook or whatever needs to happen.”

Madeline (35:33): That’s exactly our thinking behind those family nights.

Emily (35:36): Yeah. So we’ve gone through, um, the, the state system and the childcare, the union, um, your, the village you’ve created. Any other sources of support that you’ve leaned on?

Additional Supports: Home Visitors and a Buy Nothing Group

Madeline (35:47): The other systems I can think of would be like the, um, home visitors, uh, which is part of the state systems that exist. And then also our Buy Nothing group, ironically, even though, like, it’s not the same as any other system that I have, to be honest. It’s been very interesting in that I can just say like, “Hey, like, we are looking for some help with, for maternity photos. We would love to have some, but we can’t afford them. Would someone be willing to come take our photos?” Just something like that, having neighbors who we can say, “Hey, um, can you help us move into our new apartment?” Um, they’ve been really, really helpful just to be like, “Hey, I need somebody who can drive my husband because my kids are all asleep. Can you take him to the doctors for us?” So those are other kind of little systems just like that we’ve created that’s kind of part of that village, but it’s not quite the same relationship as like a friendship, I would argue.

Emily (36:38): Mm-hmm. That’s interesting that your buy nothing community extends to like favors. I, I haven’t noticed that in mine. It’s more just like things, like take these things, have these things, you know, um, which I certainly use now. And honestly, for children who are growing very quickly, it’s very, very useful to have a pipeline of, you know, hand-me-downs coming your way and a place to get, you know, cheaper free equipment or car seats or just anything in that, um, line. So yeah, I can totally see how buy nothing would, um, help in that way.

Madeline (37:07): It was a, it was actually the suggestion of our home visitor. She’s like, “Why don’t you just ask that group that you always go to because it can’t hurt to ask and stuff.” And so we, that’s another way that I supplement like that itch for shopping. Like there’s like that you wanna doom spend or you feel stressed and you want some retail therapy and you’re like, “I don’t really have money to do that kind of stuff.” So instead I just go on my buy nothing group and I’m like, “Hmm, what, what’s popping up there?” And you get that thrill of dopamine being like, “Oh, I got selected,” or, “Oh, I got to it first and stuff.” So that’s kind of another psychological way of like kind of handling the stress of like not having a whole lot of disposable income I find. Um, it’s just kind of shopping on Facebook like that.

Emily (37:46): I love that idea. And again, it applies to non-parents as well. If like the thrill of the shopping is what you’re looking for, then put that extra layer of challenge of it’s gotta be free. <laugh>

Madeline (37:57): Yeah, 100%.

Emily (37:59): Well, I’m so thankful for all the insights that you’ve shared in this interview. I mean, especially about, you know, looking at that fellowship offer, or not offer, but like the interview process you were going through for that fellowship and realizing, oh wow, that number is high, but the benefit, the lack of benefits is completely offset and like what the situation you’re currently in is actually pretty good, especially that you wouldn’t be delayed another year for finishing your PhD and, and getting out into the, you know, permanent workforce and all that. So there’s so many insights that you’ve shared. Thank you so much, Madeline.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (38:28): Um, I will end our interview by asking you the question that I ask all of my guests, which is what is your best financial advice for another early career PhD? And it could be something that we touched on already in the interview or it could be something completely new.

Madeline (38:41): Best thing that I have to say for an early career PhD student, um, would be just to really consider like what do you need and not be afraid to try to go for it. So if that means that you need financial assistance, try to get out of your head about that. If you need, um, if you need help with childcare, looking to see like what are creative ways to work through that. Be willing to ask friends, be willing to ask and find a neighbor that you feel you can trust, be willing to look into what government state assistances there are. And also just recognize like the power of systematic effects, like making sure like, oh, do, is there good health insurance available? Is there, um, are there other good benefits available? Not just looking at that bottom number, um, that bottom line.

Emily (39:28): Of course. Thank you so much for illustrating that for us during the interview today.

Madeline (39:32): Thank you. I’m so happy to have gotten to talk with you for this. So thank you for having me back.

Emily (39:37): Absolutely.

Outro

Emily (39:40): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? We have collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to view transcripts or videos of each episode? We link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

This Graduate Student Keeps a Zero-Based Budget in a High Cost-of-Living Area

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In this episode, Emily interviews Quinn Nguyen, a 4th-year PhD student in chemistry at UC Irvine. Quinn has been highly intentional with her finances during graduate school. She maintains a zero-based budget, uses targeted savings accounts for her cat and annual trips to Vietnam, keeps emergency savings, and pays herself first into a Roth IRA. She also lives in subsidized graduate student housing and drives an electric bike in addition to a car. Quinn and Emily discuss the advantages of these practices, specifically the Roth IRA, and how Quinn has developed confidence that she can make her finances work no matter what life throws at her post-graduate school.

Links mentioned in the Episode

Teaser

Quinn (00:00): Because I’m a computational student, a computational chemist student, chemistry student, I do simulation all the time. So to motivate it myself, I actually plug in the number, um, let’s say pretend that I contribute $200 a month, uh, to my Roth account. I want to see how much I have when I turn 60. When I see the number, I was like, I was so motivated.

Introduction

Emily (00:25): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (00:53): This is Season 25, Episode 1, and today my guest is Quinn Nguyen, a 4th-year PhD student in chemistry at UC Irvine. Quinn has been highly intentional with her finances during graduate school. She maintains a zero-based budget, uses targeted savings accounts for her cat and annual trips to Vietnam, keeps emergency savings, and pays herself first into a Roth IRA. She also lives in subsidized graduate student housing and drives an electric bike in addition to a car. Quinn and I discuss the advantages of these practices, specifically the Roth IRA, and how she has developed confidence that she can make her finances work no matter what life throws at her post-graduate school.

Emily (01:36): Let’s talk fellowship taxes for a minute here. These action items are for you if you recently switched or will soon switch onto non-W-2 fellowship income as a grad student, postdoc, or postbac; you are a US citizen, permanent resident, or resident for tax purposes; and you are not having income tax withheld from your stipend or salary. Action item #1: Fill out the Estimated Tax Worksheet on p. 12 of IRS Form 1040-ES. This worksheet will estimate how much income tax you will owe in 2026 and tell you whether you are required to make manual tax payments on a quarterly basis. The next quarterly estimated tax due date is September 15, 2026. Action item #2: Whether you are required to make estimated tax payments or pay a lump sum at time tax, open a separate, named savings account for your future tax payments. Calculate the fraction of each paycheck that will ultimately go toward tax and set up an automated recurring transfer from your checking account to your tax savings account to prepare for that bill. This is what I call a system of self-withholding, and I suggest putting it in place starting with your very first fellowship paycheck so that you don’t get into a financial bind when the payment deadline arrives.

Emily (03:01): If you need some help with the Estimated Tax Worksheet or want to ask me a question, please consider joining my workshop, Quarterly Estimated Tax for Fellowship Recipients. It explains every line of the worksheet and answers the common questions that PhD trainees have about estimated tax. The workshop includes video content, a spreadsheet, and invitations to at least one live Q&A call each quarter this tax year. The next live Q&A call is on Tuesday, September 8, 2026. If you want to purchase this workshop as an individual, go to PFforPhDs.com/QEtax/. If you’d like to request sponsorship of this workshop for you and your peers from your department, graduate school, postdoc office, etc., send the potential host to PFforPhDs.com/sponsorQEtax/. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s25e1/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Quinn Nguyen.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

Emily (04:13): I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today, Quinn Nguyen, who is a fourth year PhD student in chemistry at UC Irvine, and we are going to talk about how she has made her finances work during graduate school and what it takes to do that and what kind of financial goals she’s been able to work towards. So Quinn, thank you so much for volunteering to come on the podcast. Would you please introduce yourself a little bit further?

Quinn (04:35): My name is Quinn Nguyen. I’m from, originally from Vietnam. I went to the United States, um, nine years ago for college. Uh, went to college in, um, Ohio, uh, for four years and then I work a year and then I moved to California, Southern California to start my graduate school. Um, so for, throughout college, uh, I have my scholarship, my parents and my part-time job that cover pretty much all my expenses, uh, tuition. So I graduated without any student loan. Um, I worked for a year, saved up a little bit, and that helped me with the cross country moved. Um, I started graduate school with about $3,000. That’s, that’s all my saving and, um, that’s how I started graduate school. So no debt, $3,000.

Emily (05:20): Yeah. Amazing, like, really solid, I would say for, you know, it, it could have been a lot worse and having even just that little bit of savings I’m sure helped so much at the beginning. Um, may I ask, are you still considered an international student or have you changed your status?

Quinn (05:34): Yes, so I’m still on my student visa, so I’m still considered international student. Um, yes.

A $35,000 Stipend at UC Irvine: How Far Does It Go?

Emily (05:39): Okay. Wonderful. Big question right off the bat, which is how have you made your finances work during graduate school? And so we need to start by talking about what is your income, what’s your stipend?

Quinn (05:50): Um, so I started graduate school with about $35,000 in stipend. Um, that has changed a little bit because we have the, uh, strike and we have, um, the union negotiate our stipend, but has been roughly amount to the same. And also the st- stipend also increased a little bit every year due to the increa – the increase in experience, but yeah, roughly 35,000. Um, so after tax every month I get about, uh, 2,600 to about 3,000. Um, my first year was about 2,600.

Emily (06:24): And do you have any other sources of income aside from the stipend?

Quinn (06:29): No, I don’t have any other source of income. That’s, that’s all the income I have.

Emily (06:33): Okay, wonderful. So let’s move to talking about expenses then. Um, just give us kind of a broad overview, like what are some of your expenses and then in, in this vein of how have you made it work, um, yeah, how does it fit in with your expenses overall, your budget overall?

Quinn (06:51): Um, so I have, uh, fixed expense like housing. Um, I’m very fortunate because UCI have graduate housing, um, and that cover, my rent cover every utility, so the rent is about 1,000. So after rent, I have about 1,600, um, dollars to work with every month.

Emily (07:09): Actually, let me ask about that first of all, because I, we have had previous, um, interviewees from UC Irvine who have mentioned subsidized graduate student housing. So would you consider this to be subsidized?

Quinn (07:19): Yes, this is a subsidized graduate housing. Um, it’s so much better than the market rate housing.

Emily (07:25): And do you have, like, what’s the housing setup? Do you have, like, a flatmate? Like, how many people live in a unit?

Quinn (07:32): Um, so I pay thou – one, 1,000, and I live in a two bedroom, one bath apartment. Um, there are cheaper options, but when you, uh, when I go, when I went to the school and started out, uh, I did not get to choose and they placed us into different communities and this is the only choice that I have. Um, so yeah, I have one other roommate. Uh, I have a cat living with me, so that also a part of the expense as well, uh, with the, the vet bill and the vet basic. So yeah, uh, so for 1600, I, uh, pay for my, I pay a I pay for my grocery, uh, eating out, friend, um, gas, which is a big part here in Southern California. Um, I also, um, contribute a little bit to my saving account, uh, my Roth IRA. Um, I want to go back to Vietnam once a year, so I also have a sinking fund set up for international travel and domestic travel. Um, yeah.

Emily (08:35): Okay. Let me ask about a couple of those items. So you mentioned gas, so tell me about your car and how you use it. Like, do you use it for daily commutes or what?

Quinn (08:44): Um, so I have a car, but I, because I live in graduate housing, um, I’m just about a mile or two mile away from my office. So I, um, use, I invested in an electric bike that I bike to school every day. My car is just used for the, in the weekend when I want to go to grocery or when I want to go out with friend.

Emily (09:03): How do you charge your bike?

Quinn (09:07): Um, so I charge my bike in my apartment, uh, or sometime when I drive to my office, I can charge it there in my office.

Emily (09:14): And it sounds like, you said your utilities were a part of your rental cost, right? So like no marginal cost to charging it it sounds like.

Quinn (09:22): No. Yeah.

Emily (09:23): Amazing. A good deal. <laugh>

Quinn (09:25): Yes, it’s, it’s a very good deal here and at least in Irvine. Um, I get to have my own bedroom. Uh, a bedroom here in Irvine can cost about 1500. Um, so having a bedroom for just a thousand is such a steal.

Emily (09:38): And has that housing cost gone up yearly? Is it fixed to a certain percentage that it can go up? How do they calculate it?

Quinn (09:45): Um, I think it’s, it has been increasing, uh, every year since I first lived here. So I have been in the same apartment since I first came, so that was four years ago. Every year’s increase by about 5%.

Emily (09:59): Okay. Not insignificant, but glad to hear it’s not more than that. <laugh>

Quinn (10:04): Yes. Yeah.

Sinking Funds and Roth IRA Contributions

Emily (10:05): Okay. You also mentioned traveling home at least, or once per year, and then also some other travel. Do you have any. I mean, I know you mentioned using a sinking fund. So for the listeners, sinking funds, targeted savings accounts, we’ve talked about this a few times in the past. Basically, you save a small amount of money every single month for each of those types of expenses that you would, uh, use a sinking fund or a targeted savings account for. So specifically on the travel front, um, do you have any, like, strategies around travel to help reduce the cost?

Quinn (10:34): Um, so I, um, beside the, beside the sinking fund, uh, that I send, like, I send at least about 100 a month, uh, into a sinking fund, I, because I know roughly the, the cost of a ticket back, back home and back. Um, I usually book the ticket as soon as I can, uh, just to save on the, the price of the ticket. Um, I started using a credit card with some points, so that help a little bit with that. But yeah, usually a sinking fund is very helpful for me. Uh, I, the tickets usually cost less than the, the amount that I saved up, but I also have some extra money that can buy gift for people at home or prepay for the trip.

Emily (11:15): That sounds great. You mentioned that you, um, contribute to your Roth IRA. I don’t know if you’re also saving up cash, um, or, or have been in the past, but, like, how much would you say that you save? Is it a consistent monthly amount? Does, does it fluctuate?

Quinn (11:29): Um, so I, whenever I get my stipend, I set up an autonomous system that basically, um, automatically transfer my money from my checking account to my Roth IRA account, and it’s also buy the index fund every month. So roughly every month I send, uh, 250 to my Roth IRA account, uh, that I came to that number after, um, doing the math, taking out, uh, subtracting my rent, all the necessary expense, and so that was, uh, 250 what I, uh, I feel comfortable contributing to a Roth IRA account.

Emily (12:03): That’s great. And that’s almost 10% of your net income, so that’s a very significant amount for graduate students. So great job. Um, do you still have $3,000 in cash or, like, how much with your sinking funds? I don’t know if you also have a separate emergency fund. Have you built that up over the years as well?

Quinn (12:20): Yes. So, um, I started contributing to the Roth I – to Roth IRA, um, about a year into my graduate school. Uh, before that, I only contribute to a, uh, I only have an emergency fund that I send about 400 into that emergency fund. Uh, after the first year, I found out about Roth IRA, and I decided to split that by half, so I send about 250 to my Roth IRA and 200 into my emergency saving fund.

Using Zero-Based Budgeting as a Grad Student

Emily (12:48): Is there anything else you’d like to share about how you make your finances work in graduate school? Actually, we haven’t talked yet about your maybe financial, um, habits in terms of, like, do you budget? I mean, you already mentioned the strategy of pay yourself first, you know, for the Roth IRA, that’s amazing. The sinking funds, those are strategies. Do you use any other kinds of strategies for, like, your variable expenses? 

Quinn (13:09): I use a budgeting method called an zero dollar base method. Um, I, I use an app, uh, it’s very easy to use called Every Dollar. So, uh, after I get my paycheck, I send all the money to the saving account, I pay my rent. I only have about $700 to $800 in my various expense. Uh, so I put that into different bucket, um, grocery, uh, eating out, gas, um, yeah. And, um, the rest is, I owe in the sinking fund, my saving and my rent.

Emily (13:44): Sounds perfect. How, how often are you checking in with the app? Like, how often are you using that tool to help you make spending decisions?

Quinn (13:52): Um, yeah, so because with a zero-based, um, budgeting method, you kind of have a purpose for every dollar you spend. Um, so let’s say I usually put about 200 into grocery and 200 into eating out with friends. Um, so every time I go to grocery store, I basically pull out the app, put in what I spend, and then it automatically subtract that amount. Um, whenever I, you know, need, want to buy something, I open the app to see, oh, how much money I have. Uh, and, and by the end of. I try to spend all the money by the end of the month because, um, because that’s, I want to have every dollar I have a purpose. So, uh, that’s really helpful because I’m naturally a very frugal person. Um, I just try to save, save, save all the time, but now having an app and see that, oh, I actually have this much money just to go out and eat with friend, I try to enjoy as much, um, get as much joy out of those my those dollars as possible.

Emily (14:49): I love that philosophy of budgeting, and it’s actually one that I experienced as well. So I’m actually not a natural saver. I’m not naturally frugal. Um, I grew up more of like a spender, but when I started receiving a stipend, it was like, “Whoa.” <laugh> Like I gotta shut everything down, you know? So I, I really went hard the other way into any spending that I did really made me feel like anxious and like, was I like messing something up by like, you know, going out to eat or whatever it was. And so I really found budgeting to be helpful in the way that you just mentioned of like, “Oh no, I know I have confidence that I’m allowed, I’m allowing myself to spend up to this amount of money on this purpose every single month, and I know that it all balances out and like it’s gonna be okay.” So it really was giving myself like permission to spend that helped me feel much less anxious about each one of those decisions because when you don’t have a budget and you have a, you know, a tight income to work with, then if you’re just flying by the seat of your pants, like I don’t even know how you make those decisions of like yes to this, no to that. So the budget is really helpful in that way. It can both help you like know when you have to reign it in and it can also help you, like you’re talking about, know that you’re, um, permitting yourself to spend those dollars in a joyful manner that you know is gonna be really meaningful to you. Um, and it gives you like a goal to like spend like up to this amount on eating out, as you mentioned, or whatever else you’ve budgeted for. Well, I, I love that you shared that. Um, one question though, because like with the every dollar method, with the zero-based budgeting method, every dollar is accounted for, so what do you do when you have an unexpected expense come up or when you just really do come in under budget, you didn’t manage to spend everything in a category, like how do you, um, balance the books?

Quinn (16:31): So, um, that’s when, um, the sinking fund came in because let’s, uh, I have various type sinking fund, um, and for, so I have the saving account that kind of is called piggy, smarty pigs kind you have, it’s like you have different piggy bank for every purpose. So for, um, because I have a cat, I try to put in a few, about $20 a month, uh, contribute to that sinking fund so that if my cat needs to go to the vet, I have some money that I can use, uh, travel, that of, you know, when you buy a international travel ticket that basically wipe out all my stipend for the month. So that’s really helpful. Um, and if I, you know, if I use up all the sinking fund, I, you know, and there’s no room for my budget, uh, then I use my emergency saving fund that I have, um, a few thousand dollar in. So yeah, that’s how I account for those, um, emergency situation. But luckily I never had that situation, never experienced that situation. 

Emily (17:35): It’s there as backup though if you need it. Um, that’s great because it sounds like then you’ve anticipated all the. I mean, I, I’m saying unexpected expenses, you’ve expected them. You’ve racked your brain, you know, though about your pet, thought about all the things that are like the likely unexpected or emergency type expenses that would come your way and you’ve just decided to save and advance them. It’s an absolute textbook application of targeted savings accounts, so I’m really delighted to hear about that. Um, anything else you wanna add around how have you made finances work as a graduate student?

Quinn (18:09): Yeah, so, um, I think of m- my finance as like three layers. So I have my budget that I deal with every day, um, and then I have my sinking fund, uh, that once in a while I have to pull the money out from that sinking fund. I also have the saving layer. So the saving, if I need money right now, like very emergent, I pull out from the emergency fund, and then I have the Roth IRA. Um, a lot of people don’t know that you can actually use the Roth IRAs as kind of an emergency fund as well because you can withdraw the, the Roth IRA, the contribution, uh, tax-free and penalty-free, um, your contribution only, tax-free and penalty-free. So that’s another layer of, um, emergency fund that I could, uh, use as well. So yeah, that’s, uh, I contrib, I approach my finances with multiple layers.

Emily (18:59): Very smart. And I, I can exactly see how it would play out that way.

Commercial

Emily (19:05): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, budgeting, or designing your financial life, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer live workshops, asynchronous online courses, and cohort-based programs on these topics, and I’m now booking for the 2026-2027 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, medical school, postdoc office, or postdoc association? My workshops are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Discovering Roth IRAs as a First-Year Grad Student: The Potential for Life-Changing Money

Emily (20:33): Let’s talk a little bit more about the Roth IRA, actually. So you shared with us so far that about a year into graduate school, you found out about Roth IRAs and decided to start using one, and also some of the advantages, like you said, um, a Roth IRA can technically be used as, let’s say, the emergency fund behind the emergency fund, right? I wouldn’t say it should be the first layer, but as a backup, backup, backup, yes, you can withdraw the contributions without, um, too much fuss. Uh, so yeah, maybe start with, like, how you found out about Roth IRAs and then why you decided, um, that it was the right tool for you.

Quinn (21:08): Yeah. So, um, I found out about Roth IRA in my first year of graduate school. Um, I, you know, first time in my life, I have a salary, uh, have my own money, so I, I deci – I wanted to something, do something with it. Um, so I, you know, ma- many of my friends, um, have a brokerage account and they pick some stock, they sell when they buy. Um, uh, but then I found, I found out that it takes, it took so much, so much money, uh, so much time, um, and sometime you don’t, and you don’t, you cannot, it’s hard to beat the market, um, picking stock. Um, and so I, I look into various account and then look at various strat – various strategy, um, and I found out about Roth IRA. Uh, if Roth IRA is a good, uh, retirement account to have in graduate school, because for many STEM graduate student, um, graduates pro – who have much higher earning potential after they graduate, um, graduate school may be the only, uh, direct, the only years in their life that they are eligible for, uh, Roth IRA contributions, you know, after that, they can still contribute to Roth IRA, but with many more, uh, convolutions. Um, so graduate school is a very good time to start contributing to Roth IRA. Uh, another reason is also because when you’re in your 20s, you have a lot of years ahead of you, and all the, uh, gain that you have, that, that you have from your contribution in your 20 have much longer time to accumulate, uh, and then when you’re retired, you can withdraw all that tax-free and that such, sound like such a sweet deal to me. Um, I’m, uh, because I’m a computational student, a computational chemist student, chemistry student, I do simulation all the time. So to motivate it myself, I actually plug in the number, um, let’s say pretend that I contribute $200 a month, uh, to my Roth I account. I want to see how much I have when I turn 60. When I see the number, I was like, I was so motivated. Um, yeah. So I, I, if you pretend that you contribute $200 a month, every month in your graduate school, uh, you do that for five years, after graduate school, you end up with about 15,000, and then you wait until 30 years after that, you end up with more than 200,000. It’s, yeah, it’s not life-changing money, uh, but it’s still a big amount. Maybe by the time I turn 60, I have grandchild, child and grandchildren that could contribute to the, their, um, college educations. That’s how I think about it. That how I decided that, um, I want to open a Roth IRA account.

Emily (23:45): I have to disagree with you. I think it is life-changing money. Um, and I, I think you’ll agree with me, like, just the fact of getting started with saving and investing, getting compound interest working for you as, as you said, it’s exponential growth. Like once you, if you’re a math type-minded person, once you see the power of exponential growth in one area and then you realize that your money can do that too, oh my goodness. Um, even if the absolute dollar amounts are not that high, let’s say the year, you know, when you finish graduate school or five years out of graduate school, I do think having those habits in place and the confidence that it gives you, um, that you have some amount of money that you could access if you really, really needed to, and also it’s growing on your behalf and it’ll turn into hundreds of thousands of dollars, um, by the time you retire. Or I’ve done an exercise where just the same as you set it up, if you wait, let’s say two more decades till like you’re 80, 85, it’s a million dollars by then. Like it really, really does make a huge difference, uh, the longer the time you give it to compound. And as you were saying, getting started earlier, um, gets that compounding working on your side. So it’s incredible. I’m so glad that you have, like, chosen to use this tool and that you’re sharing that with us now. One question that I get from other international graduate students is about, “Well, should I use a Roth IRA because I’m not sure if I’m gonna stay in the US long term?” And so I want to know your thoughts about that specifically from your perspective as an international student.

Quinn (25:13): Yeah. So I, I though about that too, because I still don’t know if I will stay in the United States after graduate, considering all those things going on. Uh, but then a great thing is you can still access that money when you’re not in the United States. Um, and here, two thou – 200,000 is not, not as huge as, you know, um, not that big of a deal for many people. Uh, but back. I’m from Vietnam. In Vietnam, 200,000 is so, so, so much money, uh, considered that the living expanse in Vietnam. So that even motivates me more to contribute to my Roth IRA.

Emily (25:49): So you’re seeing it actually as like a geoarbitrage play, like I’m being paid in US dollars, I can invest in index funds, you know, based largely in the US. It can grow at these US rates. I don’t have to pay US taxes on it because it’s a Roth. And then it’s, if you end up leaving the country, well, the upside is the money goes a lot further in the country that you would likely be living in. I actually haven’t heard that argument before, but I really like it.

Quinn (26:12): Yeah. So that’s, that’s how I think about, um, contributing to a Roth IRA as an international s – international student. Yeah, for many of us who have a PhD, um, they can also do a green card application, um, for many programs. So if you end up staying in the country having some money in a retirement account already, uh, when you enter the workforce, it still advance you toward your retirement goal much faster, um, without, if you don’t have that retirement saving.

Emily (26:41): Absolutely. Actually, this brings me to another question I’ve, I’ve discussed with other international students about the green card application process. Is that one of your sinking funds? Like have you started saving money or are you already spending money on that process?

Quinn (26:53): No, I actually haven’t started that process. Um, I kind of put it in the back of my mind for now, uh, because it’s, it’s hard to plan now for the futures and I don’t even know if I want to stay because of the, of the change in the funding for science. Uh, so yeah.

Checking Investment Account Balances

Emily (27:09): Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Anything else you wanna share about your choice to use a Roth IRA or how you feel about it? Actually, I’ll, I’ll share something and then you can answer as well. But when I was, um, investing during graduate school, and you mentioned using index funds, totally on board with that approach, absolutely. Um, I was investing at a really fun time, which was about from the trough of the great recession, um, in the growth years afterwards. And so it was like a bright spot in my finances to like, you know, every so often check my balance and be like, “Oh, it went up by more than my contributions over the past few months.” Of course, if you check it really, really often, then you’re gonna see volatility, but on the order of, you know, six months or a year or something, generally speaking, during that period of time, it was going up. Um, we’ve had some more volatility in recent years than I was experiencing at that time, so do you find it, like, fun to be watching the balance, like, go up sometimes and down sometimes, or is it like a source of stress? How do you feel about it?

Quinn (28:05): Honestly, the way I deal with it is I just don’t check my account at all. Um, I believe in the compound interest that happened over time that went over a long time. Um, and I also contribute every month, so dollar cost averaging method. Um, so I, I, I just basically just make it as autonomous as possible, uh, and I don’t have to think about it so that I can focus on my work and finishing my PhD. Uh, yeah, so basically I just block out all the noise, just let the market do whatever it wants, because I believe in the cycle and the market, of the market, it move and then it go up and then it go down eventually, it go up over time. Um –

Emily (28:46): Yeah, absolutely. That’s my same approach as well. Um, I check my investment account balances about once per month now because I record my net worth on the first day of every month, so I end up checking it then. So sometimes it’s down, but most of the time it’s gone up by some degree, at least, you know, contributions. So that’s fun. I remember when I was in graduate school and, like, in times when it was kind of volatile, I told myself I would only check the balance if I had heard, like, I listened to news at that time where, like, it would share stock market news or whatever. If I had heard that the market went up by at least 1% that day, then I would check it. And other than that, I wouldn’t check it at all. <laugh> So, like, I only got good news, right?

Quinn (29:25): Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the, the way I think about my Roth IRA is, is a long-term investment account. So as the day-to-day step, I have my budget, uh, I have my rent, everything covered by my budget, uh, and my emergency funds. So I rarely think about my Roth I, I just withdraw money, cont – invest every month, and once in a while, I, I, I remember that I have this investment account and open it up. I just look at the gain and was like, “Oh, that’s amazing.” And then I close it and then I move on. <laugh>

Emily (29:56): If it’s not too frequent, <laugh> it’ll usually be good news. Um, Okay. So when you, um, volunteered to be interviewed on the podcast, you said something in your application like, um, “Whatever life throws at me in the future, I’m confident that I can make it work,” based on your experience with your finances in graduate school. So can you elaborate on why you feel that way?

“Whatever Life Throws at Me in the Future, I’m Confident That I Can Make It Work”

Quinn (30:18): Yeah. So, um, Orange County is a very expensive place to live. Um, I us-, I usually joke with my friend that if I would not go to graduate school here at UCI, I would never be able to afford to live in Orange County, um, because it’s, it’s so, so, so expensive. Um, my stipend is 35,000, um, and I think 35,000 is considered, um, like acutely poverty, acutely low, um, income for one person household, household. Um, and yet I don’t feel like I’m missing, I’m missing out on anything. Um, I’m still having fun, a lot of fun. I still go out, uh, to a restaurant once a week or twice a week. I still have able to afford a cat, a car. Um, so I, yeah, and I, I, I don’t feel like I’m missing out anything at all and I still able to save about 20% of my, uh, income every month. So yeah, I don’t think, I hope that in the future I would not be, um, have, I would not be the, I would not have a, like acutely low income ever again, but, um, but yeah, with this very, very, very small amount of, uh, money to work with every month, I was still, I’m still being, I’m still able to work with it and, um, still having fun with my life and, you know, uh, so I’m, I’m, I think grad school beside what I learned from all the, you know, um, what I get from in academic-wise, I also feel much more confidence about the ability to handle finance, um, here, now or in the future.

Emily (31:52): Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I have to say, I agree with you, you’ve been presented a financial challenge and you’re succeeding within it. Um, so that certainly indicates that, and, and like you said, with your career trajectory, you’re likely, this is likely to be the least amount of money you’ll ever make in your life, right? So absolutely. And, and as you said, a, a high cost of living area. Um, but I think it’s really like the things that you have done, right? You talked about, you know, having a zero based budget, about paying yourself first, about using the sinking funds, like all these strategies that you’ve learned and put in place during graduate school, um, that you’ve done to make it work are, I, feed into that confidence, right? Like you’ve used these strategies, it’s, it’s happening. Like you’re able to save, you’re able to live a balanced life, you have, you know, satisfaction in your, um, in your spending, you can carry those forward. So you’ve like learned those skills and you can still apply them through the rest of your life. It gives me confidence as well that you’re gonna be, you know, feeling financially successful at later stages when you make more money because you have the skills to go with it. Other people who, as I was mentioning earlier, maybe just kind of like fly by the seat of their pants, like they’re not doing much planning or consideration, um, around their finances, just kind of making it. Um, that may be a protective measure, a psychological protective measure because it is pretty depressing like to be paid a stipend level only, but because they’re not developing the skills, um, and mindsets and habits around how to handle the money, I don’t think they could have the same confidence that you do about being able to handle money later in their life. There’s a phrase in the personal finance community, um, you can’t out earn bad spending habits, right? Like no matter how much money you make, guess what? You can spend that much. It is possible. And so at some point, if you want to, um, you know, have a handle on your finances, you need to right size your spending, you know, based on your income and so forth. And that can be a painful process. Um, but you’ve done it, right? You did it as a graduate student and all you need to do is carry those lessons forward. So, um, I absolutely agree with you. I think the confidence is, um, warranted in this case.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (33:51): Let’s wrap up with our final question then, the one that I ask all my guests, which is, what is your best financial advice for another early career PhD? And it could be something that we’ve touched on already, or it can be something completely new.

Quinn (34:02): Yeah, my advice for a future graduate student is just, um, to try to make the finance work for you. So I know that not a lot of people, um, like have the same privileges that I have, uh, graduate college without debt or may, they may also have a dependent. A lot of my friend have kid and wife. Um, so they, um, they, they may not be in the same position as I have, so they may not be, may be able to save as much or, um, invest as much, but I hope, I think the, the only advice I have is just to try to make the finance work for you. If you’re able to save more, that’s good, but if you’re able to save less, that’s fine too, because graduate school, um, is not really the time to, to save as much as you can, but it’s more like you try to build a habit of saving and and investing so that it could serve you for, uh, in the next step of your life.

Emily (34:55): Yeah, and I think, um, kind of what you said earlier about automating your finances as much as possible, having systems in place, even if people aren’t able to save, they can still do those things. Like even if you are living paycheck to paycheck, you can still have an awareness of your expenses, you can still have some automations in place. And so, like, you can still go down that learning and self-improvement route, even if overall you do need to spend all of your income because of, you know, your dependents or, you know, the lower stipend or not having subsidized housing or whatever the situation is. Um, so yeah, I think that’s really valuable. Um, Quinn, thank you so much for volunteering to come on the podcast. I’m really just delighted to hear your story.

Quinn (35:37): My pleasure.

Outro

Emily (35:37): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? We have collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to view transcripts or videos of each episode? We link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

The Best Financial Advice for First-Year Funded Graduate Students

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In this episode, Emily shares the microinterviews she recorded at two conferences this year and solicited from subscribers to her mailing list. The prompt she gave to everyone was “What is your best financial advice for a funded graduate student matriculating in fall 2026?” Emily was very curious whether the advice would be timeless or unique to 2026, and you can listen for how the respondents interpreted it. You’ll hear first the responses from the conference attendees at the Graduate Career Consortium Annual Meeting in June 2026 and the Higher Education Financial Wellness Summit in July 2026. Virtually all of these respondents work at universities, and most have PhDs themselves. Second, you’ll hear the responses submitted by my mailing list subscribers. Some of them came in audio form and some in written form, and Emily voices the written submissions. I’ll also make a few comments in between some of the submissions if there are podcast episodes that relate to the given advice.

Links mentioned in the Episode

The Best Financial Advice for First-Year Funded Graduate Students

Introduction

Emily R (00:00): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily R (00:30): This is Season 24 Episode 5, and today I’m sharing the microinterviews I recorded at two conferences this year and solicited from subscribers to my mailing list. The prompt I gave to everyone was “What is your best financial advice for a funded graduate student matriculating in fall 2026?” I was very curious whether the advice would be timeless or unique to 2026, and you can listen for how the respondents interpreted it. You’ll hear first the responses from the conference attendees at the Graduate Career Consortium Annual Meeting in June 2026 and the Higher Education Financial Wellness Summit in July 2026. Virtually all of these respondents work at universities, and most have PhDs themselves. Second, you’ll hear the responses submitted by my mailing list subscribers. Some of them came in audio form and some in written form, and I am voicing the written submissions. I’ll also make a few comments in between some of the submissions if there are podcast episodes that relate to the given advice.

Emily R (01:38): If you are matriculating into graduate school in fall 2026 or are a prospective graduate student, go to PFforPhDs.com/offerletter/ to download a one-page reference sheet listing nine factors that affect your financial and overall wellbeing during graduate school. Ideally, you would use this list during admissions season to help you decide among offers, and it’s still valuable upon matriculating into graduate school to investigate how your university and program stack up on these factors. You’ll find several commonalities between this list and the advice given in this episode as well as some new points. Again, if you want to join my mailing list to download this quick resource, go to PFforPhDs.com/offerletter/. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s24e5/. Without further ado, here’s my compilation episode on the best financial advice for funded graduate students matriculating in fall 2026.

Best Financial Advice for Funded Graduate Students Matriculating in Fall 2026

Brent R (02:52): My name’s Brent Richards. I am the Assistant Dean for Graduate Research and Education at the University of Oklahoma, uh, Graduate College on the health campus. And, uh, my advice for a new student, um, coming in, uh, in the, uh, uh, fall of 26 would be, um, first of all, uh, really know what the funding model of the program you’re going into looks like. So if it’s funded all the way through, or if it’s only funded through the first year or two, and then if, if that’s the case, how does the funding, uh, continue? Are you gonna be expected to get your own training grant? Um, are you gonna move on to your, your PIs grant? And just know that from the beginning and don’t wait until, you know, you’re already two or three years in and, and now suddenly you have to scramble to, to find money.

Grace K (03:43): Hello, my name is Grace Kimball. I work as the Assistant Director of Professional Development at UC Santa Barbara. My advice to incoming funded graduate students would be to plan very carefully with your finances and save wherever you can, because you sometimes just never know what the future may hold.

Ilana H (04:02): This is Ilana Horwitz. I’m an assistant professor at Tulane University. And my best advice is to find other people who do really cool things and make soups or take photos, uh, or build furniture and try to barter with them for services that you can offer and tra – and create a trade economy.

Emily R (04:22): Ilana gave a previous interview for this podcast in which she expounded on this advice, so if you’re interested, listen to Season 16 Episode 4.

Briana M (04:33): I’m Briana Mohan. I’m a program director at University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center. I think primarily I would encourage people to find colleagues, classmates, acquaintances who are really into how to manage money, how to invest money, whether it’s in retirement, whether it’s in stocks, whether it’s, you know, put it under your mattress, like, whatever. Um, don’t talk to my 13-year-old who thinks that counterfeiting is the way to make money. But talk to, like, adults who are really enthusiastic and knowledgeable about money and how to make it work for you. Um, and don’t think that that’s something that should only start after you have, like, a salary, right? Um, because you kind of can’t start too early, and at least with knowing what the, I don’t know, what the landscape is like for money.

Nicole L (05:34): Hello, my name is Nicole Lilly, and I work at Florida State University in the Career Center. So thinking about what you can do best when you’re getting started with your first stipend is paying yourself first. So making sure you put aside some sort of money, whether it’s 10%, 5%, anything from your salary, because sooner or later something’s gonna go wrong. A car might break down and you have to pay additional pet deposit. Who knows what? But just get in the habit of just saving stuff now, because when things get more complicated with more salary, more responsibilities, you’ve already started that saving habit. So you have, like, an emergency fund, money that you can dip into without having to go on a credit card to kinda get you to stay out of trouble.

Emily S K (06:17): Hi. My name is Emily Sferra Kapela. I am the program specialist for career and professional development at the University of Michigan Medical School. My advice would be to think ahead to next summer. Do you have funding for next summer? And if not, what are you going to do? Will you save part of your earnings over the academic year to fund yourself? Will you seek out additional funding? Or will you find a job?

Cindy V (06:59): My name’s Cindy Vigueira. I am a Director of Curriculum Programs, uh, for the Division of Biology and Biomedical Sciences at Washington University in St. Louis. My advice is to save money. Um, don’t spend it all. Make sure you have a rainy day fund so that if you have an unexpected expense, you’re ready to cover it.

Natalie D (07:20): Hi, this is Natalie D’Silva. I am the Senior Manager for Career Professional Development at Scripps Research in San Diego. My advice for international students matriculating this fall is to start saving, especially if you’re considering, uh, immigration and continuing on in the country. Especially if that is years away, start saving now because it costs a lot of money, um, to immigrate.

Chris G (07:47): Hi. My name is Chris Golde. I’m a career coach for PhDs and postdocs at Stanford University. And my piece of advice is to take advantage of your funded status, to really explore broadly the resources that are available at your university. It’s very tempting to really focus, particularly in the first couple years, on life within your department, but your university has so much to offer you, and you will grow as a person, and your opportunities in the world will grow as you look around and seize opportunities and take advantage of them and try things.

Raquel S (08:21): My name’s Raquel Salinas, and I’m the Assistant Dean of Career and Alumni Engagement at MD Anderson UT Health Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences. And in a previous role, I specifically worked with master’s students in a bridge to the doctorate program. So I worked with these students, uh, to apply for PhD programs, uh, and then help them transition as they were leaving their master’s and starting their PhD programs. And so that question of how do you deal with finances during that time came up, especially because many of the students I worked with were first generation, came from low socioeconomic backgrounds. And this was a really challenging time. How do you move across the country? How do you, um, prepare for a move when you don’t make a lot of money, or maybe you’ve made no money, and now you have to navigate that. Um, and you may not be, be paid your first stipend until you’ve worked fully a month. Uh, and family support is very limited. And so in these cases, we often visited that idea of, do you take out a loan in your last semester before you, to prepare and save for that move? Um, and so one of the things that we constantly talked about was estimating the cost of the move and taking out the minimum required to do that move, because as we all know, loans compound. And so they can be really helpful and effective before you get to graduate school, but they have to be planned very carefully. So taking out too much can really lead to a lot of long-term strife when you, especially when you get to that point of graduating your PhD and having to pay it back. Um, the other thing would be to reach out to your graduate school and see if there’s any funds or support, um, that can help with that move or advances on those first paychecks, um, or loans to help with the move as well. So that would be my advice if you are finding this to be really challenging time in moving, uh, and covering those expenses.

Emily R (10:29): I want to double triple quadruple underline what Raquel said about planning carefully for taking out federal student loan debt, and to that end, if you are considering a federal student loan, please listen to Season 24 Episode 4 for the latest updates. If you take out a federal student loan in or after July 2026, you are locked into the new repayment plan options, the tiered standard plan and the Repayment Assistance Plan, so if you want or need to retain access to the legacy income-driven repayment plans, you absolutely cannot take out another federal student loan. Again, for more details, go to Season 24 Episode 4. I love Raquel’s suggestion to approach your graduate school about alternative ways to fund your moving expenses.

Brian C (11:22): Hi, I’m Brian Campbell, Associate Director of Graduate Career Development at Loyola University of Chicago. My PhD in History from the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. And my piece of financial advice for someone in a stipend granting PhD program would be to find small side hustles at some point during your PhD that can help you for a specific purpose. For me, it was paying off some private student loan debt that I had while I was in my PhD. So I did that in a number of ways. Um, I, in, in part, I worked with some friends on a couple of projects and got some, like, side money for that. Um, at one point, I, I’ll be honest, I was one of those people who donated plasma on the side, because I could do it. I had a plasma donation place right next to me. Um, and I made a lot of money doing that, uh, you know, a couple of days a week, and it enabled me to pay off those student loans. So whatever’s gonna work for you, um, and you feel like is healthy and, uh, healthy and productive side hustle.

Jessica V (12:30): Hello. My name is Jessica Vélez. I am the senior manager of engagement, community building and professional development for the Genetic Society of America. And my advice is start a budget yesterday. Start it as soon as possible. There are lots of software out there that you can use, some of which are free. Uh, I will quickly plug one called You Need a Budget that gives you a free year. And I started that when I was in graduate school, and I will give a personal anecdote that after I finished graduate school, I had a job lined up. It fell through as these things happen. But because I had been using YNAB for so long, I was able to live fine for three months off of my savings that I had been able to save because of the budgeting habits that I had developed. So cannot recommend a budget enough.

Emily R (13:16): If you want to take a deep dive into You Need a Budget in particular, subscribe to this podcast so you won’t miss the forthcoming interview with returning guest Elle Rathbun, who has used the program to great success during graduate school. The episode will be published in Season 25.

Sophie L (13:33): Hi, I’m Sophie Lewis. I’m a graduate assistant and doctoral candidate at Boston University. I think the biggest piece of advice I would have for matriculating PhD students this fall is to know when you’re getting paid and how much you’re getting paid so that you can kind of track your income and budget it out over time so there’s no surprises when you kind of get paid. 

Jessica M (13:57): Hi, my name is Jessica McCarthy. I am the Director of Grad Student Support at Boston University. And a piece of advice, well, two pieces of advice that I would give to incoming PhD students is know, find out who in your department oversees your pay so that if there is an issue, you know who to go to directly. The second piece is that if you are in a teaching role or some other sort of role that’s affiliated with a classroom, find out a little bit more about what the expectations and assumptions are for any summer teaching. Is it an extra stipend? Is it included in your stipend? Are you allowed to do it? Are you prevented from doing it? Um, because we’ve seen some PhD students kind of get a little bit surprised in the summer, um, thinking that they would be teaching another course for X amount of dollars and maybe it didn’t end up being that way.

Letty T (14:46): My name is Letty Treviño, she/her/ella pronouns. I’m the Assistant Director of Inclusion Initiatives for graduate programs in postdoc affairs and the biosciences at UCLA. What financial advice would I give? You should read every, uh, every bit of a financial statement. Read all the fine print. And for the UC system, specifically, read your union contract on the union website because that’s where you will find it in its entirety.

Lizzy M (15:18): Hello. My name is Lizzy Machado, and I’m a career counselor for graduate students at Marquette University in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And the advice that I would give is to make a budget if you haven’t already. So basically tracking how much are you getting from your funding? How much do you have coming in? How much do you have in your savings? Are there any other sources of income that you have coming in? And then what are your expenses? Housing, what do you expect for food? Other fixed things so you know what your margin is and whether or not you need to supplement that by finding an on-campus job, seeking other ways of funding, applying to grants, uh, applying to scholarships, other things like that.

Alicia R (16:09): My name’s Alicia Roy. I work at the Gladstone Institutes in San Francisco, and I’m a career services manager there. And I did my PhD from UC Berkeley. And when I think about the question of financial advice, a big one is to not compare your financial situation to other people. It’s very easy in grad programs to compare yourself to your friends or friends of friends or family who did not go to grad school and see their income, their purchases, and, and wonder why you’re not doing that or, or worry about it. And I would say the only reason I would pay attention to those worries is that if they become really all consuming, then maybe that’s an indicator that you’re not actually satisfied with your current situation. And the pros and cons of why you decided to go to grad school and the material benefit that maybe you see other people getting is a factor that’s bigger than maybe you initially realized. If you find it difficult to dismiss those thoughts, then I would say that that’s an interesting line to follow. But otherwise, I felt like I was happy with my situation. I was able, I was focusing on what I was able to do that I wouldn’t have been able to do otherwise, like get funding for travel. Um, and, you know, get, get support in, uh, doing things like setting up your Roth IRA early if you can. I did that with a friend and that helped a lot. But I think it was so often the discussion about, like, what we saw colleagues who weren’t in grad school doing and the savings that they had or the purchases that they were making or the, the places that they were living. Um, and ultimately, I don’t think that was a helpful thing to focus on with that caveat that I mentioned.

Commercial

Emily R (17:58): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, budgeting, or designing your financial life, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer live workshops, asynchronous online courses, and cohort-based programs on these topics, and I’m now booking for the 2026-2027 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, medical school, postdoc office, or postdoc association? My workshops are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. The fall semester is an excellent time for any type of personal finance content. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Best Financial Advice for Funded Graduate Students Matriculating in Fall 2026

Emily S (19:33): Hi, I’m Emily Schwartz. I’m the director of financial education for MidFirst Bank. And, you know, my advice would be start planning your finances from day one. I know there’s so much to start doing when you enter grad school, but make sure that getting your finances figured out is part of it that you do right away. Don’t save it for later. That’s when those bad habits start to creep in.

Thedley N (19:57): Hi, my name is Thedley Nicolas. I am a student at Florida International University, a DBA student, and I am also a financial education specialist. One advice I will tell you, have consistency and discipline. Know when to say no to the wants and follow your financial goals. The more you are consistent with the small, um, deposits, the, um, eventually will increase. And you got this, okay?

Sara E (20:28): So I’m Sara Early from Iowa State University, a financial aid advisor. And even if you are funded by your graduate program, I still recommend talking to your financial aid office just in case there’s anything else available to you. Um, because you can get financial aid up to your cost of attendance. And a lot of financial aid offices also have, uh, financial success programs to help you figure out how to finance your life past college.

Emily R (20:55): From further conversation I had with Sara before and after this audio clip, I wanted to clarify that she was referring to scholarships and fellowships that you might be able to get through the financial aid office, not only student loans. That would not at all have been apparent to me as a funded graduate student.

Kathryn W (21:12): Hi, everybody. My name is Kathryn Wilson. I’m the Associate Director of Student Financial Support and Housing Resources at the Boston University Medical Campus. Um, my best financial advice for a funded graduate student matriculating in the fall 2026 is to pay yourself first. So set aside anything you can for that rainy day fund, whether that be for emergencies, um, or just a little bit of a break in your academic studies to get out and enjoy life. I think that that’s really important balance to have as a student and as a community member.

Sara R (21:42): My name is Sara Ray. I’m the incoming director of Powercat Financial at Kansas State University. So for a graduate student who is, say, starting in fall 2026, um, they are super excited about starting, but you might encounter some hurdles along the way where you realize, “I might not finish this program.” Um, that can feel really sa – scary and you’re facing something called the sunk cost fallacy, where you put in so much time and effort and you’re, you’re feeling that you need to finish. You might also be facing some opportunity costs around, “I need to go earn money, um, and I need a real job. Um, but also I wanna finish this degree despite all of the obstacles.” I think it’s really important to sit down and it could be a basic pro/con list. It could be, um, you know, any number of decision-making frameworks, but really evaluate at that moment in time in your life what’s really important to you. Um, and of course, just having financial stability can be a, a part of that process. Um, a thing that I really found when I was in grad school and I was facing sunk costs, something that I wish I had was, um, I wish I had really sought out either mental health counseling or career counseling, um, for some of our universities that have access to one-on-one financial counseling. Any of those resources can be really helpful. Just having a more objective third party is amazing, um, when you’re, you’re really looking at all areas of your life, including, you know, this difficult graduate program and deciding if you wanna finish and what might be financial obstacles, opportunities, and just really making the best choice for you. I think that’s the most important thing is there’s so many opportunities and what you’ve done in your grad program isn’t lost. Even if you don’t finish the degree, you can take what you’ve learned and the skillset you’ve built and it can become an amazing next part of a career, even if you don’t finish the PhD.

Amgad H (24:08): My name is Amgad Hussein. I am the financial wellbeing program coordinator at the University of Buffalo. My best advice for a funded graduate student who’s starting in the fall of 2026 would probably be to look inward and kind of analyze your relationship with money. Learn what makes you spend, what makes you save, and how those things interact with each other, and how those things affect your general wellbeing and your general wellness. And that point of reflection can be really rewarding and really helpful for setting up your future.

Jennifer C (24:36): My name is Jennifer Careaga. I’m the Assistant Director of Student Financial Literacy and Wellness at University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston. And my best advice for a funded grad student matriculating in the fall of 2026 is to live within your means. Know the money that’s coming in, know the money that’s going out, and make sure what’s going out is less than what’s coming in. One of the ways that I recommend students try to live within their means and cut their expenses is take advantage of all of the free stuff you can get. Um, whether it is on campus food pantry or a city food pantry, um, you know, there’s a lot of food drives, especially in my area. Um, apply for SNAP benefits if you’re eligible. In my state, students are.

Lyndsi B (25:27): My name is Lyndsi Burcham, and I am the financial wellness program manager at the University of Pennsylvania. Um, my best financial advice for a funded grad student matriculating in fall 2026 is go see your school’s financial wellness office to talk about your financial goals and, um, you know, s – uh, you don’t have to worry about student loans at this point, so let’s think about how we can be proactive and, um, set yourself up for success post-grad.

Anna (25:54): My name’s Anna, and I work with the Peer Financial Counseling Program at University of Virginia. And my advice to first-year fully funded PhD student would be to set up a budget and to make sure you’re fully funded the whole time.

Lynn L (26:08): Hi, I’m Lynn Letukas. I’m head of strategic programs and partnerships at Intuit for Education. Uh, there’s so many things that are going through my mind, but I really wanna emphasize the importance of starting to save early and compounding interest. So even if you only have a few dollars, you wanna take even that $25 a paycheck that you have, save it, invest it, and let it compound other, over time. So by the time you graduate or as you move throughout your career, you will see that money grow and it’ll help you for retirement.

Melissa G (26:39): So I’m Melissa Groves. I’m the chairperson of the economics department at Towson University in Maryland. And my best financial advice for a funded grad student who’s matriculating in fall 2026 is to, uh, enjoy the benefit of having your education funded, but be careful that that doesn’t translate over into carelessness in other large expenses like housing and transportation. Um, and you keep in mind kind of best decision making, um, in those areas and don’t, um, overspend.

Jonathan L (27:16): Hi, my, my name is Jonathan Lewis, and I am a PhD-trained research fellow at the University of Massachusetts, Boston, working with faculty in the leadership and education program. I would say you need to know explicitly what your funded commitment, what the terms of your funded commitment look like. In other words, are you expected to teach a certain number of courses or produce a certain number of research papers based on your assistantships? How many semesters are you guaranteed funding? Uh, what is your plan B if your faculty member was to go to a different institution or the priorities or financial situation of the department were to change? So really understanding what the school is committing to and what they’re kind of sort of hoping to commit to, but things might change. Um, and understanding how you can create a multi-year sustainable financial plan for yourself that relies on the funding and then supplements elsewhere as needed to get you to graduation.

Barbara S (28:19): Barbara Sweeney, coordinator of Food Security Outreach, University of Rhode Island, Kingston, Rhode Island. My best financial advice for funded grad students actually has two pieces. One, learn about the basic needs that are available on your campus. Food pantries, housing, uh, advocacy, um, emergency funding. You may need those and you wanna know about them before you need them. The second is, it’s not too early to think about summer funding. We all, uh, we get funded for fall and spring, and summer is a long 14 or 15 weeks, and it’s really important to find out if your major professor will have funding for you next summer.

Rohit P (28:58): My name is Rohit Prasad. I work within financial literacy space in education, higher education. Um, I’d say, you know, in this particular question, assuming a student’s fully funded in the sense that they don’t need any additional financial aid from the university, they have their main expenses covered and all their needs covered. At that point, a student can really kind of venture with their money into the realm of usually investing. ‘Cause at that point, that frees you up and frees up your money to now use it to grow your money long-term. This is things like compounding interest, long-term investing, you know, folks that may interpret as, like, stock market and bonds, long-term CDs, however you choose to interpret that. But it does allow for investing versus just trying to maintain your lifestyle day-to-day or budgeting month to month.

Sara L (29:50): I am Sara Lorenzen, and I am the Assistant Director of Financial Wellbeing at UNC Chapel Hill. And advice I would give to a fully funded student is Um, to still always know what your other funding options are, because especially with like recent changes, funding can change. So it’s important to make sure that you still file your FAFSA even if you’re not gonna utilize student loans. Um, and that you know what your private lending options are if something happens and you lose part or all of your funding, so you don’t have to stop in your course to finish your degree.

Haley H-D (30:24): My name is Haley Hamblin-Dold, and I’m the Assistant Dean of Students for Basic Needs and Student Support at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. And my advice to incoming graduate students, um, for financial tips is to just know where your food resources are. So when you come into your graduate program, you may think that you have all the financial resources you need. You’re not concerned about where your food is gonna come from, but at any point during, uh, your time, something might happen. And so knowing where your food pantry is, following them on social media, locating them on your campus, it might not be near where you’re studying and researching, and so being able to access that and know how to get there is really valuable so that if something, when something comes up, you know where to go and have those resources available to you.

Elena E (31:05): My name is Elena Evans. I’m a PhD candidate at Vanderbilt University, and my best piece of advice is to get a high yield savings account. Something that’s around 3% or even higher is great. Something that’ll give you a lot of interest just for having a savings account.

McKenzie (31:23): I’m McKenzie, a PhD student at the University of Washington. My best financial advice is to join your union if you have one. In our last contract negotiations our union won a base stipend increase from $32,000 to $46,000 over three years and we successfully countered a proposal that would raise our health insurance premium costs by $1,000 a year.

Latasha W (31:50): Latasha Woodward, Engineer I At Pro2Serve. Use a zero-based budget to manage finances. This helps you keep track of what is coming in and out. With this method, every dollar has a purpose. Even though money will be tight, put aside money to go have fun, even if it’s just getting coffee. Coffee runs are important in graduate and professional school.

Rob R (32:14): I’m Rob Rich, a former PhD student in English at University of Rochester, finished in 2023. My advice, pay down your undergraduate loan debt, if you have any, as quickly as you can, because the faster you pay it down, the less you end up having to pay. Then start putting money in money market funds and index funds. Live as close to campus as humanly possible.

Karen L (32:39): I am Karen Lawrence, program manager at St. Jude Children’s Hospital. Save painlessly in a separate account. I prefer mine to be in a separate bank with no ATM card access, so when you access it, it is a different effort and intentional. Ways to build. If possible, have a small portion of your paycheck be automatically deposited. Even $10 a paycheck will add up quickly. Anytime you get money beyond your normal paycheck, birthday money, tax return, raise, split it in half. Put half in your savings account and then enjoy the rest. You still get a treat, but also are investing in your future needs.

Outro

Emily R (33:25): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

How This PhD Solopreneur Manages Her Time and Money

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In this episode, Emily interviews Dr. Leslie Wang, the professor-turned-solopreneur behind Your Words Unleashed and repeat podcast guest. Leslie works as a developmental editor and career coach primarily for academics. Leslie and Emily discuss in detail how Leslie manages her time and money, balancing the appointments and payment schedules of approximately three dozen clients throughout the year. Leslie has molded her business to fit the life she wants to live, including frequent travel and personal and familial pursuits.

Links mentioned in the Episode

How This PhD Solopreneur Manages Her Time and Money, Money Story with Dr. Leslie Wang

Teaser

Leslie (00:00): You know, maybe moving away from the idea that the work needs to be its own reward, or that, you know, money and meaningful work are somehow detached from each other. I think that they’re very much can be part of the same thing. And it’s not a zero sum game. And I think I’m a really good example of that is that I feel like I earn very well using the skills that I learned in the academy.

Introduction

Emily (00:34): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (01:02): This is Season 23, Episode 10, and today my guest is Dr. Leslie Wang, the professor-turned-solopreneur behind Your Words Unleashed and repeat podcast guest. Leslie works as a developmental editor and career coach primarily for academics. Leslie and I discuss in detail how Leslie manages her time and money, balancing the appointments and payment schedules of approximately three dozen clients throughout the year. Leslie has molded her business to fit the life she wants to live, including frequent travel and personal and familial pursuits.

Emily (01:34): This time of year, mid-April to mid-June, is my reflection and planning season. I consider what types of financial education I want to offer my university clients in the upcoming academic year, and there may be a big shake-up in store for this one. When I pilot new workshops and programs, I typically offer them to my mailing list subscribers for free or at a steep discount so that I can work out the kinks and receive feedback. If you would like to be the first to know about these opportunities, please join my mailing list through PFforPhDs.com/advice/. As a bonus, you’ll receive a document that catalogs all of the financial advice given by my podcast guests at the end of our interviews. By the way, this is the last episode of Season 23 of this podcast, and I’ll be back in mid-June with the start of Season 24. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s23e10/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Dr. Leslie Wang of Your Words Unleashed.

Summary of Dr. Wang’s First Podcast Episode and Recent Updates

Emily (02:50): I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today, Dr. Leslie Wang, of Your Words Unleashed. Leslie is actually a repeat guest on the podcast. She was on way back in season 11, episode 10, released almost exactly four years ago from when we’re recording this May 2022 to May 2026. And so I’m just really excited to hear all the updates that we have. So Leslie, can you kind of take us back to, you know, maybe a summary of where you were at that point, what we talked about in that episode, and then tell us what’s happened since then.

Leslie (03:21): Sure. So when I first appeared on this podcast, and thank you so much for having me back, I was still a faculty member, so I was a tenured professor of sociology at University of Massachusetts Boston. Um, maybe just like a little bit of background about me. I got my PhD, uh, from UC Berkeley in 2010. And then I did all the things. I had a two year postdoc. I had two different tenure track positions, um, and I wrote two, sole authored scholarly books, a lot of articles. And around the time I went up for tenure, I was really burnt out and I was looking for answers to the question of, is academia still for me? And I decided to train as a life coach the same year that I went up for tenure. And that was in 2019. Um, I had a baby a few weeks before COVID hit, and then I was on parental leave and sabbatical all during lockdown.

Leslie (04:20): And so during that time it, I think a lot of people were just really soul searching. And I was definitely doing that. And I realized that like I did not want to stay in the academy forever. And so that’s when I started building my business. Your Words Unleashed and it also has a podcast to the same name. And so all of that was happening when I was still a faculty member. Um, so I think when I talked to you, if it was like early 2022, I knew I was gonna leave. I had no idea when, and then three months later I decided to leave <laugh>. It was like that. So basically, I, I still remember all it was, um, was I got an email from the chair of my department asking what my course preferences were for the fall. And at that point I was like, I can’t do this anymore. I’m done. And I’m like, I have to resign. I have to resign. So I did. And basically, you know, my contract went through I think August 31st, 2022. So I ended up just fully leaving. At that point I did have a full fledged business and I had launched it early 2022. Now it’s 2026, so I’m moving into the fifth year. Um, and so, you know, basically I am a full-time writing coach. I help people, uh, demystify the scholarly book writing process and create a practice that really centers their own values, um, and helps them, you know, express themselves using a more authentic voice and trying to get away from a lot of the sort of jargon, um, and insular nature of a lot of academic writing. Um, and I also do a lot of career coaching as well for mostly tenured faculty members that are looking for like a renewed sense of purpose.

Leslie (06:13): And I think right now, as we all know, it’s very hard times in higher education. And so I kind of do a mixture of both. I’d say maybe like two thirds of my clients are long-term writing coaching clients for, for whom I do a lot of developmental editing as well, and that’s most of my time. And then maybe about one third are career coaching clients. Um, and so I’m happy to talk about any aspect of, you know, launching my business, going full time into solo entrepreneurship. Um, but I would say the difference is that like now I’m very happy with where I am. Like I’m really satisfied with, um, I think balance is a tough word, but like the alignment I think that I’ve been able to create between my career and my life that I did not have in any way, shape or form in academia. And I probably didn’t have the first few years of my business as well.

Structuring Time and Staying Accountable as a Solopreneur

Emily (07:07): Yeah. Well I wanna hear more about that now. Um, I’m always curious when I get to speak with, um, especially people who, like we were just talking about, have a lot of agency over their own, you know, um, calendar and over the kind of work that they do, whether that’s inside of academia or outside. I’m always curious to hear about, um, how people hand handle their time and how people handle their money. And there’s sometimes so many parallels between those two. So let’s start with the first one. Like, can you tell me what, um, an average work week looks like for you? How you structure your time, how you maybe keep yourself accountable to the work that you need to do?

Leslie (07:42): Yeah, totally. Um, and it, it, it’s an interesting thing to reflect on ’cause it’s changed a lot since I first started my business. And I think a lot of business owners are gonna say this, but the first couple of years you were just working your ass off like you are, there’s not a lot of limits. And I think also coming from academia where there’s definitely no limits or boundaries with work I was, I was overworking and I was aware of it, but I wasn’t in control of it. So now moving into year five of my business, I am in control of it after having experimented a lot with like, what is the right amount for me, um, when factoring in the other things in my life that I wanna be devoting time to. So, you know, I would say my weeks vary quite a bit, but I typically have about five to seven, hour long, um, client sessions per week.

Leslie (08:35): And like I said, about two thirds of my clients are there for writing, coaching and developmental editing. And for each of those sessions I need to take anywhere from two to four or even five sometimes hours outside of that meeting to review the work, give feedback and that sort of thing. Um, and then the other sessions are with career coaching clients who I don’t need to prepare very much for. Um, and so that means I really need to space out my, my writing coaching clients to not have more than about three in a week, otherwise I just can’t keep up. And this is definitely a trial and error thing and I’ve come to realize that like summertime is not a relaxing time for me for the most part because academics are on, they’re producing a lot of material they wanna meet more frequently. Um, so I’ve become much more rigid around like how many clients I will take on at a particular time.

Leslie (09:33): Um, and then thinking about like how do I sort of structure people so I’m not overloaded in a week? Because, you know, after you work with someone for a while, you realize how much time it’s gonna take you to look at their work versus another person’s work. And then I have to factor that all in. Um, and so yeah, and then I normally have maybe like one half hour free coaching consult per week. And again, I, I stretch those out as well ’cause I don’t, I also don’t want people to have to wait too long after our consult to work with me. ’cause some people will have like a six month waiting period and you’re probably gonna lose those clients <laugh>. Right. So trying to kind of think about people’s time and um, and my own time. Um, but really like I just use Google Calendar to organize my time.

Leslie (10:28): I, I think I’m a much more visual person. I color code everything. So all of my client sessions are in green, dark green. Um, my consults are in light green, exercise is light blue, you know, other kinds of, you know, health appointments are purple. Like I’m always trying to, I’m always looking at it, um, and trying to figure out like what needs to be moved around. But yeah, for the most part it’s um, I think knowing now like what kind of life do I wanna lead? Like what does that actually look like on a daily basis? How much time do those things take? Say like, I want to, you know, be able to cook dinner four times a week. That takes a lot of time and that obviously takes away from other things that I can do. But if that’s a priority, then I need to think about my clients and how to move things around so I can fit it all in.

Emily (11:23): Let me ask about your Google calendar. Um, so you mentioned in that some things about like appointments, um, or even like an appointment with yourself, like to exercise. Uh, do you then look at open space and see, okay, that’s when I can do my prep or that’s when I can do the other work for my business? Or do you actually block out times of like, okay, this is when this type of behind the scenes work is going to happen, this is when this type of behind the scenes work is gonna happen. How do you, how do you um, plan for those kinds of work blocks?

Leslie (11:54): You know, I’m not quite as, um, probably detailed as some folks where they, they will block out the entire day because I like to have immense flexibility with my time. But I would say the first three hours of my workday, so about like 8:15 to like 11:15 or so is I’m a hundred percent on which means I’m probably gonna do the hardest work during that time. So if there’s um, you know, developmental editing, especially challenging editing I need to do, that’s gonna happen during that time. Um, and then coaching is probably gonna happen after that. So I have blocks that I, I give like specifically for coaching, it’s either gonna be between, I’d say 10:00 AM and noon or between 2 and 3:30. And that’s like, those are the blocks and I just kind of have it mentally in my head unless they like live in another continent or something.

Leslie (12:54): And then oftentimes we have to move things around. Um, but I had made a decision a couple of years ago that my clients need to work with my schedule because I had been doing a lot of like trying to coach people in Australia and it, so it was like 7:00 PM my time and I was exhausted and I had a baby and I was like, what am I doing? Um, and so I just started putting in more boundaries around my time and I’m like, if they wanna work with me, they will figure out a way to do that. And that’s, um, I will work with them within the range that I can work with them, but I’m no longer going outside of that. Right. And I think people also don’t know how many clients any one person has. And so I have around 35 clients at any one time and they’re going at different paces. Some of them are like on parental leave and I’m not gonna see them for six months. Others are meeting like very regularly every month for years. Um, and so it’s this dance, it’s like a constant, um, consideration of like, how’s, how are all these moving parts working together? Whereas I’m the only constant, so I gotta be, yeah, I gotta make sure that I can show up for all the, all the people and their needs without feeling overstretched. And that takes years to figure out, I think.

Emily (14:19): Yes. And especially ’cause like you said at the beginning of a business, you just wanna say yes to everybody and everything. And the boundaries you do, you don’t realize how much it’s going to affect you to not have good boundaries until you’re a little more busy and you’re a little more established and you have your work rhythms down and so forth. Um, you mentioned earlier that summer is a really busy time. I’m wondering if you’ve noticed any other seasonality to your work and whether you sort of lean into it and you go with it. Yeah, summer’s busy. I work longer hours in the summer or whether you try to like make it more regular throughout the year.

Leslie (14:51): That’s a really good question. I’ve tried to observe annually, but I do think it’s hard to tell under the Trump administration and like all the cuts that are happening in higher ed, um, it’s taken away regularity maybe. But if I had to, I think I, I definitely have a big drop off in, you know, people wanting to meet or even new clients probably in September and then towards the end of the year, because I did notice last September I had a couple weeks where it felt very spacious <laugh> and then it all ramped up back again. Um, maybe like, you know, beginnings of semesters can be a little slower end of semesters for sure are slower. There’s a lot of rescheduling in April, May. Um, but at this point I feel like it’s busy. It’s just busy most of the time.

Emily (15:48): I’m thinking about this from my own schedule as well. You know, you mentioned traveling and we’re, we’re in May now and I’m thinking about my summer schedule and I go to a couple conferences. So those are unusual weeks. I also have vacation scheduled and I also am thinking about how do I move around these blocks of work that I need to do to avoid these weeks when I have these other special, you know, things happening. And so, um, that’s very interesting that you’ve sort of built that into, for me it happens in the summer, but like you’ve built it into the, the rhythm of your business that you do a lot of traveling and you manage to not work during those weeks, which is pretty incredible. How far out do you have to plan that to like, make sure you’re not scheduling client meetings or whatever during that time?

Leslie (16:25): Well, it depends on how long I’m away. So if it’s only like a week, it’s usually doesn’t disrupt anyone. Um, but then in the summer we always go to Europe for like two and a half weeks. And that period of time, if you add on the jet lag afterwards, like I have like three weeks where I don’t really work. So that is much harder. And that’s why I’ve stopped taking on so many clients in the summer. Like I won’t start for the most part, start new clients then ’cause I have to fit everybody else in. Um, and I just treat those like, uh, compressed periods of time. But I would say I don’t not work at all. I I have to take it back. I don’t, I do some work on vacation, but it’s always like, um, I’ll have people send me their, their papers to read and I’ll, I’ll read those in like, you know, when I got 45 minutes there and you know, on the plane for example, great time actually to be doing this work. Um, I still do emails, like I don’t check out completely, but I’ve never been someone who did, you know, some people like to like not touch anything regarding their work when they, when they’re on vacation. I like to keep my mind still in it a little bit. Like I might be editing a podcast episode or like putting things up on my website. And I think that’s more of a personal preference ’cause I actually enjoy it when it’s, it’s feels like more of a choice almost. Like I’m getting ahead a little bit when I’m doing it on vacation and it’s very small amounts.

Emily (17:55): Yeah. So you’re getting some like pleasure or satisfaction out of that as well. So it’s not like taking away from vacation. It’s like, it feels good to do a little work. I I do the same thing. I had a week long vacation, like sort of over winter break this last year and I was really debating with myself like, do I finally leave my laptop at home? Do I finally like really disconnect? Um, and I ended up taking it with me, but I, I felt like it added to the experience, not like, took away from it. ’cause it was like, yeah, planes are like, oh, we have to wait in our hotel room until this activity starts. Well the kids are watching TV and I’m gonna do a little, you know, this other work. Um, so anyway, it worked out for me.

Commercial

Emily (18:32): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, frugality, increasing income, or student loans, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer seminars and workshops on these topics and more in a variety of formats. This is a perfect time to book me for a workshop at the end of the current fiscal year or at the beginning of the upcoming academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, or postdoc office? My seminars are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Behind the Scenes of a Solopreneur’s Business Finances

Emily (19:57): Okay. We’ve, we’ve talked a lot about time, which I love to discuss, but again, the other parallel kind of is money. So I’m very curious about how you operate your business finances.

Leslie (20:09): I mean, I have to say I have kept my business extremely simple. So to the point where, you know, my financial planner and CPA are like, you need more expenses, <laugh>, because I don’t employ anyone except a podcast editor. Um, I have a coworking space so that I’m not completely isolated at home. I have some various sorts of scheduling tools, zoom and that kind of thing. You know, my podcast recording, um, platform costs money. But you know, in terms of like keeping track of everything, I, I do have, you know, a credit card that’s, uh, a business card that I try to put everything onto just so when it comes tax time, it’s very clear what I spent things on. Um, you know, I keep things organized bank account wise too. So I have a Capital One account that is just dedicated to retirement contributions that get pulled out weekly, um, into a Roth IRA. I also have an account dedicated just to estimated quarterly tax payments. And so at the end of each quarter I pull from there. So I’m, I’m constantly sort of shuffling money around. Um, and I would say, you know, I’m constantly also updating these financial spreadsheets that I have and one is for me where I keep track of all of my monthly income. And the other one is with my financial planner where we’re, we’re looking at that kind of together. I put in my total monthly income in there. I also use it to keep track of my, um, all of my expenses and also keep track of my, uh, estimated quarterly tax payments. So basically, you know, I had worked out, and this is why I think having a financial planner is amazing, especially if you’re going to be moving into owning your own business. I wouldn’t have known like what percentage of my income should I be putting into retirement right now? Um, how much should I be paying for taxes? Like all of that. I think having guidance like CPA as well right is, is extremely important just in giving this peace of mind that you’re doing, you’re just like, you’re doing the right things. Um, and you’re not gonna be um, surprised, you know, April 15th kind of thing. So in general, that’s how I manage my finances. I don’t know if you have like more specific questions about money.

Emily (22:36): Yeah. So I think you mentioned a lot of great stuff there and I think because you’re working with a financial planner, probably the first thing was you do have a separate checking account, right? As well as credit card.

Leslie (22:47): Actually I don’t, I experimented with having a business checking account and it turned out that I just wasn’t using it. So I do keep it all together. 

Emily (22:58): Okay, so the revenue for your business comes into your personal account or accounts. But you keep all the expenses on a credit card so they’re easy to track, right? Because, and you’re also tracking it aside from just it being on the credit card, it sounds like you’re also doing regular, uh, bookkeeping. And then you have these other, it sounds like savings accounts where you set aside, you sort of what I do, I call it a system of self withholding. Um, so you’re putting aside the, the money that will eventually make it over to the quarterly estimated tax payments that’s gonna go to a separate account. You have another account or you pull aside the future retirement account contributions that eventually get over there. Um, okay, interesting. Well, as long as your financial planner is okay with it, like obviously it gets like the stamp of approval, but obviously keeping, having everything going to one credit card is very organized and that’s probably, um, a sufficient level of organization to, you know, comply with like the IRS regulations and so forth.

Emily (23:52): So that actually takes away one of my future questions, which was do you pay yourself like a salary or what, but if all the revenue is coming into your own personal account, then it’s already there. But then sort of maybe the corollary to that is, is your business’s profit, let’s say, you know, the revenue minus the expenses, minus the taxes, minus the retirement, is that very regular because you have these like long-term relationships with clients? Um, or does it vary quite a bit month to month and then you kind of have to deal with that on the personal side?

Leslie (24:25): Yeah, I mean I think that it varies month to month, but annually it’s very stable, right? So from the beginning I was, yeah, from the first year I launched my business, I earned over six figures. It has stayed that way and it’ll go up when I take on more clients. And then I made a very conscientious decision to not overwork. So then it’s come down, but it still sort of hovers around the same place. And because of that, it’s easier for me to estimate how much I need each month because my own expenses don’t change a whole lot. Um, but that, you know, like I am primarily paid by academic institutions, they have their own timelines. Sometimes it takes a very long time to get paid depending on the bureaucracy and what’s going on there. Like, there have been some campuses where I’ve been waiting for nine months and there’s literally, it’s somewhere in the system. Others pay me before we start. And so that’s, that’s what I’m dependent on is kind of, you know, do I know how they’re gonna be paying me? Do I know when they’re gonna be paying me? Um, and then having enough to get me through the months where it’s, it’s just gonna be lower because I just put in a bunch of invoices and things take at least 30 days, maybe 30 to 60 days. So yeah, that’s, it’s something that I have gotten used to over time, but it get, it’s just, I would say it’s fairly disconcerting at the beginning because you’re like, it feels like you’re not earning any money, but then you look at the end of the year and you’re like, oh, the totals are the same or the totals are even higher.

Emily (26:09): So my business also has a great degree of seasonality. Like, um, high season is like just following tax season, right? When I send out all the invoices for the tax education that I did, and then the money rolls in as you said, over the next, you know, one, one to two months usually sometimes longer. Um, and anyway, so there’s sort of these very lumpy times of year where I get a lot of revenue for the business and there’s other times a year when almost nothing is coming in. Um, but I still have expenses to pay. So that to me is like something I don’t want to have touch my personal finances. So that’s why I keep like a separate business checking account. All the revenue goes there, all the expenses come out of there. Um, and then I pay myself a salary from that account, which as you said, over over time, you know, you kind of figure out okay, what the annual is gonna be and then the salary is kind of based, you know, a little bit lower than that in case of some fluctuations and so forth. Um, but anyway, I don’t want that to touch my, the personal finances side of things ’cause I don’t wanna see like months where I’m making negative money <laugh> in like my personal account, you know? Um, it sounds like you don’t have maybe quite as much variation. Um, I as I do.

Leslie (27:12): I don’t think so. I don’t, I, yeah, I don’t think so because I do have a year-round business. I don’t think, um, I don’t work tremendously less, I would say, except for those holiday periods, uh, which are built in. So, so that’s why it was a little hard to answer the question about seasons, because I think in some ways I’ve stopped having seasons.

Emily (27:34): And I guess you, you sort of started to answer this before, but like, how are your clients paying you? You said some pay after the fact, some pay upfront. Are these lump sums? Are these monthly retainers? Like what’s the kind of schedule of client payments?

Leslie (27:49): Yeah, and that’s a really great question and it also depends on the institution. So, you know, I’d say 90% of my clients are using institutional funds and I’ve noticed like small liberal arts colleges tend to just pay a lump sum before you start. There doesn’t seem to be as much bureaucracy involved. Some of these bigger R1s, um, they will pay as you go. And so then I just decide like how many invoices will I send? So for, I, I typically take people on for eight sessions. That takes around at least eight months. Um, so usually I’ll, I’ll invoice maybe every two or every three depending on how quickly they’re, they’re moving through. I really don’t wanna do it every single time. It’s just, it’s, it’s just more work on everybody’s part honestly. Um, but I’ve lately, uh, there’s been some schools that have asked me to invoice every time. It’s just easier for them for their own financial reasons to do that. So, um, and then the folks who pay out of pocket, we just decide what works for them. So if they’re doing a six session career coaching with me, they might pay every two, um, they might pay half at once. And so it becomes very individualized.

Emily (29:09): I can see why you end up just looking at this on an annual basis and it’s like so many different frequencies and contracts and lump sums and yeah.

Leslie (29:16): And it’s also like they might be paying through a credit card link. They might be paying through PayPal, they might be sending me a paper check, they might be sending a wire, you know, I’m working with someone in Hong Kong and it’s like a telegraph transfer, which I had never even heard of before. So it’s a constellation <laugh> of ways that I get paid. And that is a good, you know, five, at least 5% of my time I would say is, is put towards figuring out how to get paid, making sure I get paid and do, you know, dealing with the money.

Emily (29:53): I have also had to set up systems around this because I realized earlier on, like, oh wait, did I receive that check? I’d have to go back into my bank account and figure out, oh wait, this anonymous, you know, payment ended up, you know, from this institution and now I have much better systems around like receiving, noting, you know, sending a thank you, like all the things that go along with that. And I noticed at one point, this was a couple tax seasons ago, that I was like psychologically somehow like procrastinating sending out the invoices. Like for all the work that I had already, this is the work already delivered right <laugh> from that tax season. And I was like, why am I procrastinating this? This is so weird. It’s like an undeserving thing or something like that. So now I’ve just have that, I just have my assistant do that. Like she does all the, not all, but a lot of the invoicing goes through her because like I just wouldn’t do it in a timely manner. And she doesn’t have the like baggage <laugh> around sending invoices that I do apparently. So, yeah.

Leslie (30:46): Interesting.

Emily (30:46): It’s, it’s been a learning process.

Leslie (30:48): I, I, for sure, I have to always, uh, like I on that spreadsheet for myself where I keep track of payments, I also have to keep track of did this come through Stripe? Did it come through PayPal? Was it a paper check? Was it a wire? You know, I have to know that because for taxes, you know, and I didn’t know that initially. So it’s like over time. And then I also, one spreadsheet I didn’t mention that I use constantly is I have a client sessions spreadsheet where I can see, and I have it all mapped out with months, you know, when did they start? How many sessions did they sign up for, how many did they have left? And I’m constantly also color coding that around who still needs to pay. Um, I have another color code for who has two or fewer sessions left because then I can know when is someone gonna finish so I can, uh, confidently take on another client without overtaxing myself. So it’s another thing that I, it’s like almost like checks and balances, um, around time, around finances, around like, yeah, did I get paid from them yet? Or like, what’s, what did they decide? Were they gonna do three payments? Like I have to know all of that stuff, but I don’t avoid, I like, I I find that interesting for some reason. <laugh>,

Emily (32:08): Yeah. I’m glad you like, kind of brought it back to like this overlap of time and money and tracking and scheduling and like all that stuff. ’cause there are so many like parallels between the two. So thank you so much for answering those questions. I’m always just so curious how other people operate and um, I would imagine for people who are inside bigger institutions, like, um, universities, this would be fresh information. Like they can see what it looks like on the other side, like dealing with money. No, we have people to do that. Well, no, you have to hire ’em or you have to do it yourself.

Leslie (32:34): I mean, I did not know that when I was a faculty member, right? I knew very little about how to run a business and, um, and the good thing is that it’s a set of skills <laugh>, and you can learn it and you will learn it over time. You have to, if you wanna be successful and sustainable.

Advice for PhDs Interested in Self-Employment

Emily (32:52): Let’s talk now then about how you would advise another PhD, maybe particularly a faculty member who’s interested in self-employment. And I may have even asked you this question in our first interview, um, but I’m curious to see if the answer has changed. Like how would you advise someone and maybe you, you do part through part of your career coaching, sometimes this question comes your way. What’s like one really solid piece of advice you can give to someone who’s curious about self-employment?

Leslie (33:17): Well, maybe following up on what we’ve been talking about is there’s a really big difference between having a really good idea for a business or even doing work really well and running a business, right? So like for example, like in my coach certification program, there were a couple folks that were incredible coaches. I mean, they were so like innately talented at it, but they did not have the skills to turn it into a business. And I don’t know if they really wanted to either, but you could see how like there’s skills for the work and then there’s skills of running a business. And I think, you know, listening to this podcast and other business podcasts is really, really helpful in shedding some light on the areas where you probably need to grow. Um, I would say also to really think about what you’re bringing to the table that is different from everybody else who is doing similar kinds of work.

Leslie (34:27): For the field of developmental editing that I’m in or even writing coaching, there’s a huge amount of people that have come into this area in the past few years, which makes a lot of sense. You know, if there’s an exodus from the academy, this is a very transferrable skill. It’s very aligned with how people were trained. So it’s not like this mega leap. At the same time, if you don’t, if people like people like clients or like the, the world out there doesn’t know how you think or how you, how are you approaching this that’s different from the 75 other people you just saw on LinkedIn. There’s really no reason for them to be interested. And so I think that comes down to this word that I think a lot of academics are scared of. And I was too when I was an academic, which is called Marketing <laugh>, um, which is really just about creating connections with other people.

Leslie (35:24): And I think allowing them to get to know you in certain kinds of ways that give them insight into whether or not they wanna be in your orbit. Not necessarily whether or not they wanna hire you, but whether they think you’re a compelling human being and they wanna be in your realm because you really don’t know, uh, how people are gonna hear about you, right? So maybe they wouldn’t hire you, but they would be aware of the things that you’re doing and the things that you’re saying online, um, and really like what you’re doing and refer you to somebody in their department. I think that kind of thing happens all the time. But that comes down to getting more comfortable with visibility. And so I think self-promotion can be a very tricky thing for many academics. I have podcast episodes on this, like how hard it is for I think most academics to put themselves out there because it often feels egotistical or it feels like you’re bragging or like why are you drawing all this attention to yourself?

Leslie (36:30): And I really had to shift that mindset to get comfortable. And this is like incrementally over time with putting myself out there again and again and again and taking small risks and with, you know, sharing my opinions, sharing my experiences, sharing my reflections, also sharing about my work. But it was the whole sort of spectrum of things that I think is why I now have like a pretty good platform on LinkedIn. I’m not usually even talking very much about coaching. Um, I’m talking about, you know, what I think about academia or, you know, sharing my own experiences of leaving. Um, so I think what it comes down to is if people can think about self-promotion as more of like sharing, you’re sharing your story, you’re sharing your insights, it’s more relational and you’re actually creating relationships with other people, then that can be something that really helps your business. Because in the end, like we, we need each other. We, we need people to know about us and you need to know about other people doing stuff too. Like we, it’s an ecosystem, right? And so part of that is I think, uh, allowing yourself in very small ways to be seen.

Emily (37:52): I, I found what you said so inspirational, you know, for me to use in my own business. I like that reframing. But it also strikes me that successful academics also do this. I mean, we might call it, we probably wouldn’t call it marketing, right? Inside academia, but I mean, I have had like for instance, Dr. Gertrude Nonterah on the podcast to talk about personal branding. Like not even personal, it could be just professional branding, like of yourself as an academic and the type of research you do, the networking that you do like at all. It’s applicable there as well. It just may not be a skill that the types of people who are attracted academia are, um, naturally many of them are not naturally inclined, but in either setting it’s a very useful thing to learn.

Leslie (38:28): Totally.

Dr. Wang’s Contact Information

Emily (38:29): Well, Leslie, this interview has been so delightful and, and I’m glad that people can get to know you through, you know, this platform and this interview. Um, if people want to, you know, connect with you, maybe potentially be, become a client or just wanna be in your orbit as you were talking about, where can they find you?

Leslie (38:44): My website is yourwordsunleashed.com. My podcast has the same name. Um, people can always reach out by email as well. Uh, my email is [email protected]. I’m also on LinkedIn. I’m all over LinkedIn <laugh>, so connect with me on there.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (38:59): Perfect. Um, and then we’ll wrap up with the question that I ask all of my guests, which is, what is your best financial advice for another early career PhD? And this can be something that we’ve touched on in the interview already, or it can be something completely new

Leslie (39:11): In kind of thinking about it now. And what I really had to do to go from academic to successful business owner is like, it’s really about financial literacy. It’s like learning the things, right? And I think that many, I have known many academics who take an approach of like more head in the sand when it comes to finances because, um, partly it’s that like academics don’t make a lot of money. You have a delayed, um, there’s a delayed period of time, I guess, uh, before which you do earn, start earning a salary hopefully, um, in the academy. And I don’t know, there can be just some fear I think around like, I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing. And then I think the other thing is in the academy there’s this idea that the work is its own reward. So finances are secondary. You are lucky to have a job, especially if you get a tenure track position where there’s so few these days. You know, I recently posted something on LinkedIn or someone, I reposted something where this man was saying he just got a tenure track job offer of 57K in 2026, you know, and I was like, my very first offer was 54K in 2011. Like, what is happening here? So, you know, maybe moving away from the idea that the work needs to be its own reward or that, you know, money and meaningful work are somehow detached from each other. I think that they’re very much can be part of the same thing and it’s not a zero sum game. And I think I’m a really good example of that is that I feel like I earn very well using the skills that I learned in the academy. Um, I understand what’s transferable about it, but I have much more breadth now and I’m able to align that with a life that feels meaningful too. So maybe part of it is like I would first start by thinking about what kind of life would feel really good to you and how does work fit into that versus what’s the work I want and how do I fit my life around that? And I know that’s a very privileged thing to say, but I also think it’s something, it’s a really good thought exercise for all academics to do. There can be more alignment.

Emily (41:42): Well, I think that’s a beautiful place to end it. Leslie, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. It’s been a pleasure speaking with you.

Leslie (41:48): Thank you for having me. This was super fun.

Outro

Emily (42:01): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

Sacrificing for a Lofty Financial Goal on a Grad Student Stipend

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In this episode, Emily interviews Dr. Jed Kim, a recent PhD graduate in chemistry from the University of Wisconsin at Madison. Jed built a $35,000 Roth IRA by the time he finished his PhD due to consistent $500 per month contributions. Jed and Emily discuss what it took financially to maintain that savings rate, from applying for fellowships and bank bonuses to sharing food with multiple roommates to engaging in free and low-cost activities. Jed speaks openly about how spending too little at times hampered his mental health and how a family emergency caused him to rethink his approach. This interview illustrates the trade-offs graduate students have to navigate when striving to make the PhD less of a financial liability.

Links mentioned in the Episode

Sacrificing for a Lofty Financial Goal on a Grad Student Stipend, Money Story with Dr. Jed Kim

Teaser

Jed (00:00): I have to do this in order to do my dream job of being a, being a researcher and a scientist. So how do I make this so that this PhD is no longer a liability but an asset for me, both financially and like career wise?

Introduction

Emily (00:22): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (00:52): This is Season 23, Episode 9, and today my guest is Dr. Jed Kim, a recent PhD graduate in chemistry from the University of Wisconsin at Madison. Jed built a $35,000 Roth IRA by the time he finished his PhD due to consistent $500 per month contributions. Jed and I discuss what it took financially to maintain that savings rate, from applying for fellowships and bank bonuses to sharing food with multiple roommates to engaging in free and low-cost activities. Jed speaks openly about how spending too little at times hampered his mental health and how a family emergency caused him to rethink his approach. This interview illustrates the trade-offs graduate students have to navigate when striving to make the PhD less of a financial liability.

Emily (01:45): This time of year, mid-April to mid-June, is my reflection and planning season. I consider what types of financial education I want to offer my university clients in the upcoming academic year, and there may be a big shake-up in store for this one. When I pilot new workshops and programs, I typically offer them to my mailing list subscribers for free or at a steep discount so that I can work out the kinks and receive feedback. If you would like to be the first to know about these opportunities, please join my mailing list through PFforPhDs.com/advice/. As a bonus, you’ll receive a document that catalogs all of the financial advice given by my podcast guests at the end of our interviews. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s23e9/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Dr. Jed Kim.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

Emily (02:55): I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today, Dr. Jed Kim. He graduated with a PhD in chemistry from UW Madison, um, in June, 2025. And we’re gonna be hearing today mostly about his financial journey through graduate school and specifically what he did to build up a $35,000 balance in a Roth IRA by the time he finished. So that’s really exciting. So Jed, welcome to the podcast. Will you please introduce yourself a little bit further for the audience?

Jed (03:23): Yeah. Hi. Um, I’m Jed. I got my PhD from UW Madison. As you just said, um, I was an avid, uh, runner. I, um, I liked, we have two cats right now, so a big animal lover and for the most part I like going out in nature, which is why I went to UW Madison as well.

Emily (03:40): I have had the pleasure of visiting in the summer, and I found it quite lovely. Um, I don’t know about the rest of the year. 

Jed (03:48): Yeah, summer’s probably one of, personally, I think it’s one of the best and worst times ’cause that’s when all the mosquitoes come out, but also like the lakes are just so beautiful. Um, and if you go like, uh, fishing at the, at either Monona or uh, Mendota, it’s just great. Also, like all the wilderness, all the trees. It’s super nice.

Financial Position at the Beginning of Grad School

Emily (04:09): Well, that’s wonderful. Let’s take it back to the beginning of graduate school. I wanna know kind of what your financial position was and also your mindset was going into graduate school. So can you tell us, like, you know, did you have any assets at that point? Did you have any liabilities and what were you thinking about money when you first started graduate school?

Jed (04:28): Yeah. Um, I guess we could, um, going into going into graduate school, I was very lucky where I got a lot of, uh, I guess it sort of like my financial journey starts in undergrad, right? Where I had a part-time job in undergrad, as well as my second part-time job was like applying to as many scholarships that were even remotely relatable to me as possible. So all throughout all that I was able to come out of, uh, undergrad debt free. So like, I had no assets, but also no debt. So there’s, there was a little toss up. So I pretty much started grad school at zero. I think I maybe had like a thousand dollars. Um, the outlook was, uh, when I first toured UW Madison, they said that it wasn’t really a place to like build wealth. It was just a place to like enough of a stipend to survive. And I was always an overachiever. So I was like, okay, how could I make this stretch as far as possible? Um, I got a, um, I got a minor in entrepreneurship and business, so I was really financially focused at that at that time. So I want to like really say, okay, I have to do this in order to do my dream job of being a, being a researcher and a scientist. So how do I make this so that this PhD is no longer a liability but an asset for me both financially and like career wise.

Emily (05:44): Oh, I love the way you put that and I love how, um, conscious of that fact you were going into it. Like it is, it is for most people, the financial reality is yeah, you’re just gonna be treading water, if that, during a PhD. But, um, I’m so curious now to find out how you went against that narrative. Um, especially that local narrative. ’cause it’s not the same everywhere, um, to start building wealth and as you said, not let the PhD be as much of a financial liability. Love it. Can you tell us what your stipend was at the start of grad school?

Jed (06:15): Um, I think it was, well, like it was high 20k, low 30k, and it stayed that way throughout the entirety. I think, I forget the exact numbers, but I think it started off at 28 and ended around like 32. But if, I could be wrong with a couple of thousand here or there, I don’t, I don’t think, I think it’s relatively reliable. I mean, you know, if you’ve had a lot of interviews, that’s pretty much just standard stipend for most PhDs.

Emily (06:42): Yeah. And I do know that UW Madison, at least from the previous interviews I’ve had, not a generous stipend. Definitely not.

Jed (06:48): Definitely not. Yeah.

Emily (06:50): Yeah. And what year did you start grad school?

Jed (06:52): Um, I started in 2020.

Emily (06:54): Okay. Uh, interesting time to start graduate school. Um, you moved, you were, you know, you were on campus the first year?

Housing Expenses During Grad School

Jed (07:02): Yep. No, no. So actually that’s the first way I, I started saving money. Um, before starting grad school, I, I made sure to message all of my incoming, um, grad school, you know, class. And I tried to get as big of a, um, number of people in one place as possible. So we found a house near near UW Madison. It was like a, still a 10, 15 minute walk. Uh, there was a bus that went straight to UW Madison, but I ended up spending only like six to $700 a month in rent. So that, that was like a, I really wanted to stay under like half a paycheck for, for that first year so that I could like, sort of get my, uh, um, feet under me when I first moved it.

Emily (07:47): Okay. This is an amazing tip already for both prospective and current graduate students. So how many, it sounds like you’re renting a single family home? And how many other people did you share it with?

Jed (07:57): So initially it was four, and then one, one person did end up dropping out it, in total, it was about three people. The rent though, was really, uh, we, it wasn’t the best first place. Obviously, as you stay longer and have it, um, in undergrad, you have no money <laugh>, like, pretty much all my money went into paying back, uh, paying back my, uh, student loans. But in the first year I was trying to stay, uh, as lean as possible. The rent, I think was like 1800 some, somewhere around that, maybe 18, 1900 for the whole house. Um, so it started off as four. When it was four, it was great, but, uh, we, like rent was super cheap, but then afterwards it got a little more expensive. Utilities, we kept it at as, at a minimum, I remember us trying to turn off the lights as much as po-. It was all the, all the things where you could scrounge as much as you can, as well as like splitting the internet bill, which was, which is a set cost. A lot of the set costs ended up being split among three, four ways. So that really reduced like the monthly expenses.

Emily (09:00): And did your roommates have a similar, oh, you also shared food. Oh, okay. Did your roommates have a similar mindset to you about wanting to be pretty frugal?

Jed (09:08): One of them did, the other did not. So there was a big room, a medium room, and a small room. The big room person, we just gave it to them. They paid, they paid like an extra 150 a month. The small room person paid like, like a hundred dollars less and I got the medium room. So I, I was considered like the base rent. I’m not sure how that worked out, but it ended up being pretty good. Uh, in the long run,

Emily (09:35): I’m spending some time on this because the housing decision for graduate students is honestly make or break for a grad student’s budget. And and you were so smart to know that going in, like knowing that as a prospective and rising first year, um, is that, was that the same housing that you kept throughout graduate school or did you end up moving?

Jed (09:53): So, um, in grad school I moved every single year. Um, mostly because every single year for some reason, rents kept going up. So I was trying to find a way to, uh, to minimize that. The first year, first first two years, we stayed in that place. Second year, um, we tr I tried to get another roommate, but that sort of fell through. So I found a, uh, uh, apartment that I rented on my own that was the most expense I spent on rent. And then the last two years I actually moved in with my now wife, then fiance. Um, so that ended up splitting rent as well. Um, but rent usually stayed around that when I lived by myself, it was like a thousand dollars, which was a lot. It was. But luckily at that time the, the stipend ran- randomly increased in UW Madison. So there was like a sort of cost of living adjustment, I guess. But, um, yeah, so it was like around that six to thousand dollars mark throughout the entirety.

Transportation Expenses During Grad School

Emily (10:56): Okay. Yeah. So good to know. And I really hope people are taking this message to heart. Um, I also moved a couple, maybe three times during graduate school. Um, a couple of those times were motivated by rent increases that I was like, I, no, I, we can do better elsewhere. Um, what about your transportation situation? Did you have a car? Did you not?

Jed (11:16): Yeah, so that was actually like a deliberate decision. My parents really were, were badgering me. Like, oh, you’re in America. You had to get a car. You have to get a car. I’m like, a car is a monthly expense. I just cannot, I could afford Right? Like a car payments. The car payments is one thing, but the car insurance was something else, something else. And as well as if you get a car in Madison, you have to have it covered. Otherwise it’s gonna like snow over you and ruin the car. So, um, I just took the bus everywhere. It was definitely a time drain, but it was just something that I had to do in order to like not go into debt while in grad school. 

Emily (11:55): And what about your peers? Did a lot of them have cars or a lot of them made the same decision as you

Jed (12:00): Most took the bus. Um, the ci- the bus, luckily the bus system in Madison were, was actually quite robust. So, uh, whether you lived like 30 minutes away or an hour away, there’s usually some sort of bus line that gets you through. Um, for instance, like I lived, I didn’t live in Madison City, I lived in Fitchburg, which really saved a lot of money at in that way. Um, there was a direct bus line that went straight from our apartment to the ma- uh, to Madison. And that really helped.

Emily (12:25): So, uh, I managed to live car free for exactly one year of my life, and it was glorious <laugh> and I have not achieved it since. Um, but I know like the questions for some people who maybe they have a car currently, but it, it is expensive and they’re not using it like that much. Like, talk to me about, okay, let’s say someone has like the daily commute solved around town. They know how to do that. What about those really outlier things where like you would really, it would be very convenient to have a car for X reason, like when you’re traveling or something like that. Like how did you solve those? Like, very rare but acute needs for a car.

Jed (13:01): So it really helps to have friends. First of all, <laugh>, if you have friends, um, um, outside the graduate school program, I found that that really helped me. Um, usually, uh, every grad school has some sort of like big industry, like industry company nearby, and that usually employs some people that aren’t in a PhD program. Um, I remember, uh, in Madison usually we go to Chicago or something like that for a trip, um, for a day trip or weekend trip. And usually the people that work at Epic or or in the U- University it’s entirely would sometimes like schedule like a road trip. And we, and that way I would avoid that flight, uh, that, that trip. The renting a car situation is actually not too terrible, especially if you know that you’re not gonna be in the, uh, in the city. So, and you try to plan as much as you can to not travel in the winter, and that way you don’t have to worry about the over, like the covered parking situation that you really had to worry about.

Investing $35,000 in a Roth IRA During Grad School

Emily (14:05): Gotcha. Thank you so much for those, um, insights. Okay. We’ve gotten a picture into your largest fixed expenses, right? Housing and transportation. And we also got a picture into your mindset, which was don’t let the PhD be as much of a financial liability as usual. And so, you know, I mentioned up top that you managed to build up a Roth IRA of $35,000 by the time you finished graduate school, which is incredible. So I wanna hear kind of some things that went into it that, did you do anything on the income side? Did you do anything on the expenses side aside from in housing or transportation that we’ve already covered? So kind of take this where you will, like how did you manage to, you know, save and invest that much?

Jed (14:43): Yeah, I mean, the lar- the fact that my largest expense, um, monthly was $600 really helped. Right? So, um, I was able to sort of squirrel away around $500 a month every month for my entire PhD. Um, and that comes to around like 6K, $6,000 a year, right? Um, luckily I started in, well, okay, I don’t wanna say luckily, but I started investing around, uh, 2020. And there the, uh, the, uh, s- like I mostly focused on like ETFs like, um, international and local ETFs, and those did pretty well. So that really helped with the growing, but the majority of the Roth IRA is still my own contributions, which I’m hoping won’t happen too for too much longer. But right now that’s kind of where it’ll, it’ll stuck.

Emily (15:33): Yeah. So let’s, um, talk a little bit about on the income side. Now, as you know, you mentioned during your undergrad that you applied for so, so many scholarships. Did that continue during graduate school or how did you apply those lessons in grad school?

Jed (15:45): Yeah. Um, first three years, no. Um, but then af- because the first three years is the first year it was mostly like COVID really hard to like sort of get acclimated to the university. Um, second year, uh, there’s these quals called, uh, TBEs that UW Madison has you take. So I was focusing on that. Third year there’s another qual called the RP research proposal, um, that you have to take as well. So those three years pretty much I was just trying to survive <laugh>. Um, um, but then in my fourth and fifth year I was really looking at like external fellowships. Um, I was lucky enough to get one that was, uh, tangentially related to the research I was doing. So the A-C-S Medi, um, I, if you are in the medicinal chemistry or in the organic chemistry field, I highly recommend that you do apply to that one. Um, it’s a very generous fellowship as well as, uh, a allows you to go, they pay for an entire trip to the Gordon Research Conference, which is a really good networking opportunity. Well, it was for me. Um, and then other fellowships I applied to that were a lot smaller were like, um, some scholarships I previously applied to in, um, in undergrad, but you know, in grad school format, um, there’s a grad school, uh, or post undergrad, uh, program as well.

Emily (17:03): And did these fellowships actually increase your stipend or was Madison just like, thank you very much for the money. Your stipend stays the same

Jed (17:11): That, for the ACS Medi? Yeah, it was pretty much your stipend stays the same. Um, they did give me a little bit, I think like four or $500 extra, but it was pretty much, I mean, if you talk to someone from UW Madison, you kind of know that there’s like a whole internal process where all the fellowship money goes into the university, they take the taxes out and then, um, and then they, uh, get give you the rest. That’s actually how I found you because I was, look, I got my first fellowship and I was like, what is going on? How do I use this money? Like what, how do I, like, do I get extra money for doing this? Because technically the stipend was more than I was making, uh, sorry. The fellowship was more than I was getting from the stipend, so I was like, do I get a bonus or, but it was pretty much they get it, use it to pay for my insurance, and then I could get like maybe two, 300 extra dollars extra. Which was a little bit disappointing. But

Emily (18:02): Yeah, it can be. And that’s something where I definitely want grad students to be aware that that could be the outcome. And so you have to know your motivation when you apply to fellowships, is it purely I want to increase my stipend, or is it also I want the prestige, I want this on my cv, I wanna get to go to a Gordon conference? You know, you have to know your reasons, because if you’re applying purely for the money and then your university just absorbs the money, that will be very, very disappointing. I, but it sounds like some of the smaller ones were able to stack.

Jed (18:27): Yeah, the smaller ones was able to stack a little bit, but again, they were so small that when I asked the university, they were like, yeah, it’s fine. Just it went directly to me. Yeah.

Emily (18:38): So you did have a conversation about it, you like disclosed it and yeah.

Jed (18:42): Um, I talked with our, uh, our advisor and she was like, yeah, it’s fine.

Emily (18:47): Um, and then when you won the larger fellowship from ACS did you ask about receiving more of a bonus than a few hundred dollars? Like did they turn you down? How did that work?

Jed (18:58): I did, and then they sat me down and said, here’s all your expenses that we pay for health insurance. You’re not getting that. I was like, okay, that’s fine. And then, okay, <laugh>, I, I kind of just left at that. It was, it was a, uh, in the end it was like a great experience for me anyway ’cause again, they paid for the Gordon conference as well as, um, it’s a, it was a huge boost to my cv. Um, it was a particularly, um, uh, prestigious fellowship, so it was more, I guess prestige wise, but yeah, in the moment I was like, ah, $38,000 extra will be great. And then didn’t happen.

Emily (19:32): Yeah. Um, okay. So that sounds like that about sums it up on the income side.

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Emily (19:39): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, frugality, increasing income, or student loans, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer seminars and workshops on these topics and more in a variety of formats. This is a perfect time to book me for a workshop at the end of the current fiscal year or at the beginning of the upcoming academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, or postdoc office? My seminars are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Reducing Expenses with Roommates, Costco, Sharing Food, and Low-Cost Experiences

Emily (21:04): Do you wanna talk about how you sort of managed or even maybe, you know, reduced your expenses over time in these non housing, non transportation areas?

Jed (21:12): Yeah, of course. So both. Mostly I if stay with roommates for as long as you can, that’s the best advice I could give because not only does it split the rent, but it really like, I don’t know how, how, how it is for you, but utilities are kind of expensive, especially Madison, where it’s like sometimes the utilities could go up to like 150, $200. Those are severe months. But, um, paying that by yourself, it it beco-, it ends up adding up to becoming an extra rent payment. And, um, if you split it among everyone, it becomes way more manageable. Where, where even the expensive months, like it ranges from like 30 to $60 instead of like 50 to $200 and that makes, that makes life a lot easier.

Emily (21:57): Now you mentioned earlier that you all shared food. Can you tell me about that?

Jed (22:01): Yeah, so we usually go, we, um, so conventional, uh, grocery stores, if you go weekly, ends up being really expensive. So what we did was we, we would go to Costco together and we’d get like those bulk deals, like the bulk beef, the bulk pork, um, giant trays of like eggs. And then we’d all just like split the, split the expenses, uh, which, you know, economically fa favorable, but also those meats could be frozen and we could, we usually like use them for like hot pot or like Korean barbecue nights. And then it was like really financially feasible. Um, Wisconsin also has like weirdly cheap beef and pork, so it was like really helpful there. But if we bought ’em individually from the package, I did the math, I think it would’ve been like two, three times more expensive. So I was like, that’s not gonna happen. We, we literally bought yeah, bags of like meat

Emily (22:52): I distinctly remember like discovering Costco when I was in graduate school and realizing, like you just said, like, you don’t have to go through six pounds of meat in a week, like just freeze it. So like if you have an operating freezer, like you can buy in bulk, even if you’re just, even if it’s just one or two people, you know? And it’s still, it’s still pretty feasible. So I was not, of course you might not buy, you know, 48 ounces of ketchup or whatever, but there are definitely things at Costco that you can buy and manage to consume, um, you know, in a timely manner. Uh, so were you all only shopping together or were you also like cooking, like preparing food together?

Jed (23:28): So one of my roommates were, was in the same lab as me, so we did cook together. Um, someti, uh, I’m like, I love cooking. So usually what I do is I would cook for the entire group, um, and then like everyone could just eat what they want. Um, I would meal prep and then, and then we’d sort of split. I mean, the costs are all split and I actually do enjoy cooking, so it, it would end up working out. Um, sometimes people would, uh, in order to like pay me back for that, sometimes pay me back. Not really money-wise, but like they would make dinners. Um, so we would sort of not eat together per se, but still eat the same food. If that makes sense.

Emily (24:08): I honestly have never tried that cooperative relationship with anyone other than my, like family. It sounds to me it sounds challenging, but like, I guess it, for you, it seemed like it was working out, especially since you were willing to do a lot of that labor upfront as like a service to the household.

Jed (24:22): Yeah, like Sundays it was pretty much like for me cooking, a lot of the dishes I cooked are like Asian, right? And like if you have a giant pot, it doesn’t really matter whether you’re cooking for six people or one person, it’s gonna take the same amount of time, like a stew needs a stew for cer-a certain period of time. So I would just turn it on, it would be ready and then people would just take it as they need.

Emily (24:46): And would you like to share any other kind of areas in your budget where you kept a lid on expenses or managed to reduce expenses? Like what did you try during the course of grad school?

Jed (24:55): Oh, well, in grad school, I mean, you know, this like, there’s not really that much free time. So, but when you do have free time, um, you want to ch- uh, I chose experiences and things that I found like very fulfilling that didn’t cost too much. I mentioned fishing, I loved fishing. It was pretty, I mean, you just need a fishing pool and sometimes you can rent those from a friend. Um, you would go ice fishing at the on the lake, which is free <laugh>. Um, you would, we did a lot of like, uh, if you know, lake Monona and Lake Mendota, it’s actually a beautiful walk. So I would, I would run that. Um, I trained for a bunch of like marathons and, um, half marathons, a 5K. And again, all you need are like really good running shoes for those. Um, there was a new rock climbing gym <laugh> in Madison. So in order to advertise for that, I tried to go to as many free events as possible. So like I would still be experiencing the city, um, and still experiencing what, what, uh, what what can be done in the city, but also not pay too much. I did end up spending some money on some activities, but, um, for the most part, I try to keep costs to a minimum. ‘Cause I knew that after grad school I would have more disposable income.

Emily (26:07): I mean, that makes so much sense to me that, you know, in graduate school for need or for want, like you’re gonna choose activities that are pretty low cost, unless you really are roll rolling in the dough, it doesn’t make sense to pick up like an expensive gym membership when you could just be running outside, you know, that kind of thing. Um, so that absolutely makes sense to me. Like I know one of my big activities in graduate school was like watching basketball games, which it’s not free to attend, but it’s free to watch them. Like if you have a watch party at your friend’s house and I’ll bring a little bit of food, like, it’s very, very low cost. Um, so that was like a really enjoyable thing that I did. And yeah, my activities are different like on the other side of graduate school. Um, okay. So you mentioned to me before we started that you were a fastidious budgeter. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Tracking Expenses and Budgeting as a Grad Student

Jed (26:54): Yeah, so, um, I had an Excel sheet that I made in undergrad, sort of budget for how much I spend in everything from rent, health insurance, phone bills, food, fun activities. Um, I used, I, I play, I play, oh, video games is how is a lot, was also an activity I have. So like how much I spend on video games, how much I spend on computer stuff, accessories, things like that. Um, clothes, like every category you could think of, I have, I have it. And basically anytime I do anything, I just, I log it into the Excel sheet and then move on. Um, that, that first, oh, um, that first month where I first started was what I called my baseline pay, baseline spend. And I was eating out a lot more than I thought I was. So I, I went to USC in undergrad and USC if, you know, is very close to K-Town. So we would drive to K-Town a lot and spend a lot on Korean barbecue. I didn’t realize how much I was spending until I, I did this, did this exercise. So the first month was just tracking. The second month was using that tracked data. I would extrapolate what can I really give up and what can I actively see, use that money that I’ve given up into something more what I consider to be more, uh, rewarding. For instance, like instead of going to Korean barbecue, which is very expensive, maybe we go someplace cheaper, but also save that money to go on like a trip. Um, ’cause of that I was able to do a lot of things in undergrad that I normally, but that’s not really normal for an undergrad experience. And also like, was able to sort of carry on that mindset and, and sort of modify it. So instead of going on trips ’cause a PhD, you don’t really have time to go on trips that often. Um, you, I would use, uh, divert all of that excess spend, excess spend from my initial first month into, um, into savings.

Emily (28:48): Yeah, it sounds like an incredible approach. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you actually did the budgeting? I think you said you used a spreadsheet. Um, but any details about, like, did you also use software or like how many different accounts were you tracking?

Jed (29:03): Um, so I, if you open a, if you open different bank accounts, they do give you bonuses, right? So, um, I use that spreadsheet to sort of track among the different account that I opened in order to get the bonuses and then close them as, as the times as as as I didn’t need them or if, or if the burden became too high. Um, mostly it was three to four accounts at a time. Anything above that, I was completely overwhelmed. Um, four, I remember I tried to do five accounts at one point and that was just too much ju- money juggling and just ended up, I’ve ended up making some mistakes when I had five accounts, which is how I knew that five accounts is the end, four is my limit. So, um, that’s what, um, I also experimented with like how much money I can spend in each category without becoming too depressed. Like there’s a, when you’re making a budget, you’re like, oh, I could be super, uh, super, uh, militant and I could live this like nomadic lifestyle, but af after living a nomadic li like after living that very like Buddhist monk-like lifestyle for six months on top of doing all the work that’s required of you in grad school and really just like hamper you mentally. So I found like a how much I’m comfortable with spending while also not me-, uh, hinder like, um, hurting my mental too much.

How Investing Beyond Your Means Impacts Well-Being

Emily (30:27): Yeah, that makes total sense. And I think it’s also, again, a good message for like prospective graduate students or early on graduate students that, and I’m saying especially for those who set them up for, set themselves up with high fixed expenses, they might think, oh yeah, I’ll be totally fine spending 80% of my income between my housing and transportation. No problem. I’ll just be really frugal everywhere else that gets old very, very fast. It’s very hard to sustain that. So you were in the fortunate position that you had those low, you know, relatively low fixed expenses. Um, and so, but you have these high savings goals and that was what you were navigating with, like the rest of it. So, um, I’m really glad that you, you know, set those fixed expenses up to be on the moderate side, uh, from the beginning because you had that choice really, like it was okay to increase your discretionary spending once you realized that your budget was unrealistic.

Jed (31:16): Yeah, yeah. Um, there was, there were some times where I was sort of for-, I did, I was not doing well mentally, but I still had to do a on the lower side. Um, for some reason I was really obsessed with that $500 mark, um, in grad school. So if I, like, I did that first and then once it’s really hard to get money out of the Roth, IRA, so it was just like, uh, I paid myself first and then if I was suppo-, if I had to scrimp and save for the rest of the month in order to make sure that I could live, that’s kind of what I just did.

Emily (31:46): I see. Yeah. I don’t necessarily advocate taking it to an extreme that, you know, you’re kind of suffering under it, but, but I do really appreciate that approach of like, this is my savings goal and I’m gonna make the other numbers work so that my savings goal happened. Right. Because you paid yourself first. So like, I did it. I’m not taking the money back out. Like, you know, we gotta go forward with this. So I do appreciate that approach even though it sounds like you were pushing yourself at times.

Jed (32:10): Oh yeah. No, no. I do not recommend what I did. Um, I, if, if, if I were to give myself advice from back then, I’d be like, instead of moving it to the Roth ira, just put into a savings account. That way if you need to use the money, you don’t have to like, uh, pray that next day you have enough like milk, uh, to make cereal. So like, it was, it’s like really, like there were some months where it was like I was playing within like margins of like $10. That was completely, completely reckless of me. It was definitely, I was definitely, um, on the too far end of the, um, contributing.

Emily (32:46): I, I, that kind of takes me back to like my first couple years of graduate school where I really played like chicken with the bottom of my checking account. And, and I also, not as much as you were, but I was also investing into a Roth IRA at that time and like yeah could have just done less of that and had more cash on hand. And I, you know, I learned that lesson over time. So like over time I still kind of found a way to do the investing and also built up savings so that there was something there that I could dip into if it was an unusual month.

Jed (33:11): Yeah, I, that is, I really wish I did that. Um, the first couple years of grad school were really hard because for some I was like so militant on that number and I don’t know why I was so set on that number.

Dealing with Irregular and Unexpected Expenses During Grad School

Emily (33:25): How did you ultimately deal with like, irregular expenses? Because that was the thing that pushed me to have more cash savings was to be a- ready to pay for irregular expenses.

Jed (33:33): There was like a family emergency at one point, um, that I had to go back to California for. Um, and it was like the tickets were like $600 and for me that was like a lot of money, um, that month. I luckily it happened in the beginning of the month before I did my stupid thing and did that. Um, but after that event I realized, oh, shoot, I would’ve missed this if I, um, didn’t have that. So that’s when I started building a three, like building an actual savings account first and then start contributing back into the Roth IRA that year I contributed a little bit less, but I think it, like, I built like a thousand dollars, $2,000 savings account. Um, and that really helped with the money anxiety for sure.

Emily (34:17): Yeah. And like, I mean, what you just said, you saved a little bit less that year. But it bought you so much peace of mind for like every year going forward, right? So like, it’s so worth it. Like I, again, I did not do that myself at the beginning grad school, but that is what I teach now. I do teach at least a small emergency fund first before you do anything else. Um, and it, it just, it honestly makes such a big difference to your stress, even if you never have an emergency that causes you to need to use it. Like, you know that it’s there, you have that peace of mind. You can sleep better at night and so just delaying your investing by like a few months, you know, four months or whatever it was. Yeah. It bought you a lot.

Jed (34:56): Yeah, no, that’s, I, I wish I did that early in my grad school ’cause so that I wouldn’t have to be so stressed for the first three years. But luckily at the third year, I, I, um, some like family emergency happened and I was sorta like able to wake up

Emily (35:10): And hopefully some of the listeners will take this advice to heart and not have to have that experience before they make, you know, their own change. Um, well how did it feel, you know, when you got to your defense or your graduation and you had that Roth IRA balance, like did you feel accomplished?

Jed (35:27): I, um, I mean, I’m not sure how you feel about a Roth ira, but for me it’s just like a number. Um, I, I felt like it was something that I had to do in order to retire. So this is this, um, the way I felt was like it was, oh, I’m paying future Jed this this amount of money so that he doesn’t have to worry about too much. Also, something that really inspired me was, um, like a money, the money money multiplier effect, right? So early investing, um, in your early career ends up like multiplying by 32x, um, 32 to 48x and I was like, okay, I have, I put 35K in. So that means th- uh, that means if I multiply that by 32, I’m close to a million dollars. Okay. Jed has a, future Jed has a million dollars to play with next time. I suffered a lot, but I hope he’s able to use it pretty well.

Emily (36:22): Yeah, I mean, time will tell <laugh>, I certainly can also, like, I’m very glad that I did the investing I did during graduate school and I’m far enough out that I’ve seen, you know, that compound interest growth in a significant way. Um, but there were also things I missed out on. So like, it’s definitely a mixed bag and I don’t know, I, I’m sort of a more like a no regrets kind of person. So I think it was a good decision. But yeah, there were some things we didn’t do that, you know, were one time opportunities and they, they don’t come around again. So it’s all, there’s always trade offs.

Jed (36:52): Yep. Yeah. That’s how, that’s how I felt. But I graduated, I got a job, so I was pretty happy. I guess things were looking up

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (37:02): Good. Um, well let’s end on, I, you know, we’ve learned, we’ve learned so much from this interview you’ve shared so openly. I really appreciate that, um, to, you know, learn honestly about your financial journey through graduate school. Um, why don’t you leave us with, uh, the answer to the question I ask all of my guests at the end of interviews, which is, what is your best financial advice for another early career PhD? And that could be something that we’ve touched on in the interview already, or it could be something completely new.

Jed (37:28): Yeah. Number one rule number one advice is to get, get roommates for as long as you can. Um, I feel like I felt, I felt that even though I was playing on the riskier side of my finances in the first three years, because I had roommates, I had that check, like that ability to like mess up a little bit. We were able to rely on each other when we had really bad bumps. And if you live by yourself, yes, you still have your friends, they’re still your friends, you’re still gonna talk to them. But it’s really hard to have the same kind of relationship when you’re living with someone and asking someone for help that’s not inside the house.

Emily (38:05): Yeah, it is. I mean, it’s a different level of community that you have when you have roommates versus just friends you don’t live with. So, um, thank you so much for sharing that. Thank you again for volunteering to come on the podcast.

Jed (38:17): Of course. Thank you so much, Emily.

Outro

Emily (38:28): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

Holding a Financial Standard While on the Faculty Job Market

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In this episode, Emily interviews Dr. Dillon Pruett, an assistant professor in the School of Communication Science and Disorders at Florida State University. This is the second part of a two-part interview in which we discuss Dillon’s turbulent faculty job search and transition to a faculty position. A higher income doesn’t completely ameliorate all financial challenges, but the future is looking bright. Dillon’s candor during this conversation is laudable, and his experiences are likely to be both relatable and a cautionary tale for prospective and new faculty members.

Links mentioned in the Episode

Holding a Financial Standard While on the Faculty Job Market

Teaser

Dillon (00:00): I was, my jaw dropped. I was like, are you kidding me? Like that is, that’s really, really crazy.

Introduction

Emily (00:20): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (00:48): This is Season 23, Episode 8, and today my guest is Dr. Dillon Pruett, an assistant professor in the School of Communication Science and Disorders at Florida State University. This is the second part of a two-part interview. In the first part, Dillon and I covered his financial journey through his PhD and postdoc at Vanderbilt University. In this second part, we discuss Dillon’s turbulent faculty job search and transition to a faculty position. A higher income doesn’t completely ameliorate all financial challenges, but the future is looking bright. Dillon’s candor during this conversation is laudable, and his experiences are likely to be both relatable and a cautionary tale for prospective and new faculty members.

Emily (01:33): For Season 24 of this podcast, I plan to publish a series of Budget Breakdown episodes. These interviews follow a template in which the interviewee shares their income, current financial goals, and five largest expenses. I’m looking for four grad students to provide these interviews, so this is your official invitation to volunteer. I love that on this podcast I get to feature PhDs and PhDs-to-be who are almost exclusively regular people and learn and share their real-life stories and strategies. If you would like to break down your budget, please go to PFforPhDs.com/podcastvolunteer/ and fill out the quick form, and I’ll be in touch over email. I look forward to interviewing you for this summer series! You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s23e8/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Dr. Dillon Pruett.

Dr. Pruett’s Finances During the Postdoc Years

Emily (02:43): Okay. Let’s talk more about your postdoc then. I understand you did your postdoc at Vanderbilt as well, and it sounds like you didn’t move right. Were you staying in the same condo during that phase?

Dillon (02:52): Yes. Um, so that was a really great transition because I ended up doing a postdoc with a professor who I had collaborated with during my PhD. And so, um, she was also on my PhD committee. So when my dissertation defense was delayed a little bit, um, she knew exactly why. She knew exactly when it was scheduled for. There was no issue of having to contact another university and get my offer extended or have to change, you know, my moving date or any of, of that. So that, that was really, really great. Um, I noticed, so I, um, was on a TL1, which is a clinical and translational science fellowship. Um, and so, uh, that came with a stipend, I think it was about $56,000. Um, and that also came with, um, paid insurance. And so, um, that was, that was a huge boost in the amount that I was, it was more than double what I had previously.

Dillon (03:58): And so it pretty much ameliorated all of the issues I had with like counting the dollars to the end of the month. I was like, well, shoot, like this is this, this is great. I feel like a normal human being that can, you know, get a burrito and not have to be concerned that that’s gonna impact me down, down the road. Um, so that, that was, um, really huge just for, to feel like I could take a breath of fresh air. Um, even on my, my postdoc, there were some discrepancies within, um, the department and, um, I felt like I was comfortable with what I was getting, but again, knowing that other people were getting significantly more, um, was like, oh man, like it makes me feel like I am, I’m less than. So I had a very niche focus for, you know, my PhD and for my postdoc, um, postdocs that had a, a more heavily quantitative focus that could work on multiple projects. Um, were getting maybe like $90,000 a year. Um, and I think the justification was that that was more or less the going rate for the type of skills that were required for that role if those people were having the open market. And so that was, that was that. Um, so it would’ve been great to be getting, you know, almost twice as much as I was getting, but I was really grateful to be getting so much more than my PhD that it seemed like, you know what, again, just kind of focusing on myself, not letting myself worry about that. Um, and I think that my, my, uh, postdoc mentor advocated kind of on my behalf, but was essentially kinda shot down. I was like, no, we’re, that salary could not apply to me for what I was doing. Um, so no, um, no, ill feelings towards that. It’s more the issues, the larger system than my individual situation.

Emily (06:19): Yeah, I totally understand that. And people do make different amounts of money That’s true in different fields. They’re paid differently. Um, it just strikes me that like you were, they had you anchored at that grad student stipend level that unchanging grad student stipend level, so that yeah, when you double your compensation, like you feel great about it. Um, and I understand, you know, you, you were trying to, again, keep your eyes on your own paper, but like yeah, that does sting to have another person who had the same ti- kind of title as you, right. With such huge disparity. Okay. How many years were you in your postdoc and what was the financial transition, if any, that you were able to make during that period of time?

Tenure Track Faculty Salaries at R1 Institutions: $63,000 to $100,000+

Dillon (07:02): Yeah, I started my postdoc, um, in 2022, and then I, um, was applying for jobs fairly quickly, faster than I, um, anticipated with in 2023. Um, and that was because I’d had some, um, department search chairs that specifically reached out and said, Hey, you should apply for this. And I didn’t really quite feel ready for that, but I was like, okay, I mean, if you’re telling me, I guess I’ll at least put my name in the hat. Um, and once I had done like two or three applications, um, it was relatively trivial to just apply for, you know, seven or eight more. Um, and so I had a couple of on-campus interviews. Um, they were all places that I was at least interested in perhaps working at. Um, but one of the offers was for I think initially like $63,000 a year. And this is, uh, uh, an R1 school in the southeast.

Dillon (08:14): And I was, my jaw dropped. I was like, are you kidding me? Like that is, that’s really, really crazy. Um, I had a competing offer from another R1in the southeast, um, for I think 74. And I went back to the first school and said, Hey, you know, are you willing to match it? And they were sort of like, we can go up to 72, but we, we can’t match it. So I said, okay, that’s, that’s not gonna work for me. Um, for the other school that was at 74, um, I still felt like that was way low and I had a lot of debate because I’m like, well, look, this is a tenure track position at an R1 school. I felt like I could have success there. It would be limiting in what type of research I could pursue, but I felt like the bar was such that I could clear it and be a success.

Dillon (09:14): And so that, that gave me a, a big reason to pause. Um, at the same point in time, I did an on-campus interview for another R1 in the southeast that I knew would be over a hundred thousand per year. And so I was like, okay, that would also be a better place for me to do my research. Um, and I just feel like that would be the best fit. Um, it was a really weird situation where after I had my on-campus interview, I followed up and, you know, wanted to ask where they were in their search process and heard nothing and reached out again saying, Hey, I have other offers. Just wanted to know where you’re at again, nothing. So, um, I was pressured from the other school to say, Hey, like, are you gonna take this or not? And I basically just said, no.

Dillon (10:12): I said, you know, I am still waiting to hear back. And I just felt that 74,000 was, was very low. Um, still ended up being ghosted by the third place. Um, did not have a rejection email, not, and automated one, not anything else. It was just radio silence. So, um, that was really weird. Um, and I reached out to other professors at Vanderbilt. Uh, they were more senior to just be like, Hey, like, this seems odd, is this normal? And they were like, no, that’s not, but they, you know, kind of did their best to assure me that it was unlikely directly related to something inherent to me and more that they didn’t have their kind of department in order. And this is a reflection of that, and that if that is the way that things are going, then maybe that’s not a great spot to come in as an assistant professor.

Dillon (11:14): Um, so I ended up sort of doing a lot of interviews and getting very close, but kind of walked away from things and felt a little, um, unnerved by it all. I was like, okay, I, I had this position that would’ve been okay, really didn’t pay that well. I said, no, should I have accepted it? And then this other place that just didn’t even get back to me. Um, so then the following, uh, year, uh, I came back and did I think one or two apps kind of early and then did an on-campus interview, um, a little bit earlier in the season and was offered that and decided to take it, um, at Florida State. And I didn’t know it at the time, but the, um, o- offer was for $88,000 per year, um, on a nine month, um, contra- or salary or however that’s, that’s phrased.

Dillon (12:17): Um, and I was told that the starting salary was not negotiable for essentially like, uh, it’s set by the union. And I was a little bit surprised by that because I know that a lot of, a lot of state schools have faculty unions, but I didn’t quite understand how that played such, um, a large role in the salary negotiate sal- salary negotiation, because I really felt that that was like the most common negotiation point that you could have.

Deciding on a Tenure Track Faculty Position

Dillon (12:54): And so I was just sort of like, oh, that’s, that’s it. Um, okay, well, um, I guess this is my next big choice is do I take this or, or not. And I felt that Florida State was a place that I could, um, have success, have support. Um, I was in a good peer group. Um, it felt like things are gonna start getting very sticky very quickly with higher ed, and so it felt like I really should not wait on this, and this seems like a good spot. And so, um, that’s kind of how that all, all of that unfolded.

Emily (13:33): I’m trying to get to the timeline. We’re talking about fall 2024. Is that when you were extended the offer? Is that right?

Dillon (13:40): So I would’ve interviewed in December of 2024, and then I received an offer in, I think it was January of 2025.

Emily (13:48): Yeah. Sticky. Yeah, that’s a good way to put it. Sure. <laugh> uh, prescient. Good job. <laugh> securing something at that stage

Dillon (13:57): And kind of just layered on top of that. I was very sick for my interview week, week weekend. Um, I had a conference right beforehand and I had started to get sick and I was like, oh, all right. Maybe if I just take like one or two, like two days of rest where I am just trying to sleep and take meds, I’ll kind of get through it. Um, ended up getting worse and I had a fever, I was coughing consistently, I couldn’t sleep. I had lost my voice and I was like, I can’t call the day before I’m supposed to leave, or the day of I’m supposed to leave and just cancel this. Um, and so I was like, well, maybe by the time I get there I’ll be over the hump and I’ll be recovered. And so it was magical thinking. Um, and no, I was very sick.

Dillon (14:52): I went through like literally a bag of cough drops per day. Um, I had to have water with me the whole time near the end of my job talk, you know, I had this coughing spell that I had to take like a minute or two and a minute. A minute or two doesn’t sound like a long time, but when you’re coughing for a minute or two straight, um, it was, it was probably the toughest like academic thing that I’ve ever had to do, um, is you’re supposed to be on the whole time you’re supposed to be at, at your best and you’re conversational and answering these personal questions and research questions. And, um, I just got through it all and just said, okay, I guess this is, this is what I have to do. Um, I try to take this mindset that I’m like, imagine you’re like special forces in the military. There’s no option to not do it. You’re just gonna do it. And it ended up that it worked out.

Emily (15:53): What I’m actually taking from that story of, you know, these two rounds of applications and your interview process and all that is like, um, that you kind of had, I don’t know if I wanna say it’s an abundance mindset, but at least like not a scarcity mindset. Like you really talked yourself through, you know, declining the offers that you had because you were kind of like, they aren’t sufficient, it’s not gonna be a good fit. And I think a lot of people would say, I have a bird in hand, right? Like, I have it, I have to take the offer because these tenure track positions are so hard to come by. Um, yet you held out even, you know, it didn’t work out the first year, but working out the second year, despite the adversity and the interview and all of that, just like, yeah, you had a, a standard that you, um, held the job that you wanted to accept too. And so I just want people to get that message of like, it’s not all scarcity. Okay. I know there’s scarcity in academia, but not always, not for everyone. Um, there can be times when these things work out.

Dillon (16:58): Yeah. And you know, I’m very grateful that it didn’t work out because, you know, this is such a tough place to be, you know? And so, um, it’s tough to explain that to your family or your parents because they’re like, oh, okay, well you’re doing a PhD, so that means you’re gonna be a professor. And it’s like, well, first of all, it’s if you want to do it, and there’s a whole range of places and spaces that you can go with that, but also it is not any kind of guarantee. And like if, if you’re in your PhD, you, you, you kind of know that, but to explain to your parents that are like, I don’t know, um, as, as much as they love you and as much as they think you’re great, you can be really great and it can still be really, really tough. And so, um, that’s why I felt such anxiety from having said no to these places because I’m like, am I gonna be kicking myself, you know, a year or three down the road when I’m like, if I just had done that? Um, and so it, it did work out and I’m grateful for it.

Emily (18:05): I think you also, and maybe this is true, but you should have been taking some clues from okay, I was invited to apply like only a year into my postdoc. Like maybe I have a strong profile, like maybe I’m a competitive candidate here. Even though it didn’t work out in year one, it did, you know, subsequently. Um, the other thing about the parents, I think, or maybe outside people, like having that expectation of like, oh yeah, PhD means professors. Like when you actually like grab that ring and you’re like, I got it <laugh>, I’m accepting an offer. They’re like, of course, of course that’s what was going to happen. You’re like, no, you have no idea. Like what I went through to get to this point. <laugh>.

Dillon (18:41): Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Emily (18:43): Okay. Well, is there anything that you’d like to share with us about your current position and the financial aspects of it? I mean, I kind of think you left a little open loop there with like, does the union actually determine faculty salaries? Like what have you discovered in your time since you accepted or since you started?

Dillon (18:59): Um, it’s still an open question. Um, so I know that that is not university wide. Um, it might have been that there was a specific pay line that was given to the school from the college that either there was a maximum or just a set amount. And that was just that. Um, there’s also some very interesting, uh, issues where I have a startup, but I cannot use my startup to pay students or to pay staff. And that’s kind of wild in the basic science space because like when you are just starting your lab, you, you get postdocs, you get, uh, research staff you like, that’s how you build up your lab and you do the work that you need to do. Um, and so it’s just a little bit odd that, um, that’s the restriction that, you know, I’m, I’m working through. Um, so

Emily (20:05): My understanding that until you get a grant, you can’t hire anyone. Is that right?

Dillon (20:10): Essentially. Yeah. Um, there are undergraduate and masters students who, um, can do sort of like, uh, i, I don’t know the exact term, but sort of like a, a research experience where they can work in your lab for a certain number of hours per week. Um, that’s not guaranteed. You have to, you know, there’s only so many students that that that can go around. Um, I’ve also learned that for as much as I have, you know, kind of complained about my PhD experience, um, it is a lot bleaker in other places. And so, um, you know, even with my department now, I’m like, oh, I don’t know that I would bring in a student unless I had a grant because there are so many issues. Um, they kind of, they extend in in multiple ways. Um, yeah, I want elaborate on, on, on that more, but, um, you know, I’m having to kind of transition from thinking about, okay, what were my experiences to now? What would I want, um, a student to experience as, as my student

Emily (21:29): That’s very positive. <laugh> in terms of an outcome of your experience to yeah, be thinking about it. ‘Cause you know, with some, again, I mentioned distance earlier, the distance of time, some people do forget or start to romanticize, um, their own financial experiences during graduate school, um, when it benefits them to do so in terms of who are they gonna hire and how much are they gonna pay them and are they gonna negotiate and all these things. So I appreciate that, you know, you’re still close to the experience, but that you’re taking that mindset and saying, okay, maybe better not to hire anyone under these circumstances until I can provide for them in a way that you think is fair and sufficient to, you know, further their development. Of course, the research that you want them to do for your lab.

Dillon (22:11): Yeah, I think that communication sciences and disorders is a very interesting field because it can be situated in a lot of different places within a university. It can be in the College of Arts and Sciences, it can be in a college of education, uh, at Vanderbilt it was kind of, uh, part of the medical program and biomedical sciences. Um, and so each of those different placements kind of impacts the expectations and the ability for your students to get funded in ways that I think would be appropriate.

Emily (22:48): Yeah. So it’s definitely something to consider when you’re doing interdisciplinary work. Right.

Commercial

Emily (22:56): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, frugality, increasing income, or student loans, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer seminars and workshops on these topics and more in a variety of formats. This is a perfect time to book me for a workshop at the end of the current fiscal year or at the beginning of the upcoming academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, or postdoc office? My seminars are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Financial Challenges as a Tenure Track Faculty Member

Emily (24:21): Okay. Give us a picture of your finances. Now we know your salary. Where is it taking you? What are you doing in your financial life now that you have this position?

Dillon (24:32): Yeah. Um, it still feels very unsettled, um, because I just moved in August, um, I moved from the condo that I lived in Nashville to a house that I’m renting with my wife. Um, there were a lot of expenses with the move. Um, Florida State provided a sign-on bonus, but not, but that was, uh, it, it was, it took several, uh, weeks for that to be dispersed. So I had to put a lot of moving expenses on a credit card. Um, it took a while for our condo to sell, and so there was a short period of time where we were doing a mortgage plus rent, um, which was really tough. And then my wife, um, had to move jobs and so there was, um, you know, about four weeks where she wasn’t working. She’s just now working towards her first, uh, full paycheck. And so the, the coffers have have kind of been, been drained.

Dillon (25:37): And so, um, I feel like, you know, give it another six months and we might be in a better place, but it still feels very kind of unsettled. Um, and so even though I’ve, you know, gotten a, a pay raise, it really doesn’t feel like it, it almost feels like, um, like a step backwards as far as, um, just the amount of money that’s, that’s been laid out. Um, additionally, I am, um, paid for nine month salary, um, which previously was 12, right? And so, um, there’s a, uh, institutional grant that you can apply for that helps supplement your summer salary for your first year, but it doesn’t fully replace it. Um, and so I’m gonna have to just be basically saving money through the months in order to pay my own salary in the summer. Um, so that feels a little, a little scary.

Dillon (26:43): Um, hopefully, you know, I can supplement that with grants down the road, but that’s gonna take, you know, at at least a year or more to, to do. So, um, I am hoping to, um, buy a house in like May or June, so that will be another kind of like big major purchase. Um, and a again, a lot of money associated with, with that. So, um, and I’m ba- what I’ve, what I did is I kind of put the money from the condo into a, uh, like money market account. Um, and so I, I can’t and won’t touch that up until that point. Um, and so, um, yeah, it, it, it’s, it’s good to be starting fresh, but also there’s some aspects of it that, um, just take a while to sort out.

Emily (27:39): I’m really glad to have this message on the podcast as well of like a higher salary is not a panacea. Like, it’s, it’s helpful, definitely better than not being paid as much, but like, as you progress in your life and your career and your finances, also kind of the stakes get raised. Like we’re talking about home ownership, right? So like selling a condo and like buying a house. So like we’re trying to do an upgrade here, you know? Um, and so the expenses get raised too, and things like moving, uh, interruptions in pay because of career transitions, like all these things are normal things that happen. So it’s like, yeah, you have the higher salary, but like you said, it doesn’t quite feel much easier yet. And hopefully once you know, things settle down from the transition, the moves and all that, like, hopefully you will start to feel better about it.

Emily (28:26): But like, yeah, it can take some time for sure. Um, so it’s not an immediate fix necessarily. The postdoc salary probably felt better, right? ’cause you didn’t move, you probably didn’t have an interruption, um, in your paychecks or anything. And so it was just like, oh, immediately there’s more money. That’s great, right? But when you factor in these other things that happen at these different career stages would involve moving different cost of living different places. Yeah, it can, yeah, challenging, but I’m very hopeful for you and your wife and your future and these changes that you’re going to make and yeah, that you’ll figure out <laugh> the summer salary and the grants and subsequent years, and maybe this year will be the hardest year, right? Financially getting all this stuff sorted out. Um, is there anything else that you’d like to share about this stage and your finances or money mindset during this stage?

Dillon (29:12): I don’t think so. I think that, um, I kind of came into both my PhD and my faculty job with reasonable expectations, and I’m really grateful for getting to pursue this, you know, line of research that is meaningful to me that I feel like I’m making an im- an impact. Um, there’s certainly days or times that I’m like, man, I have so many interests and I chose this really niche thing that not a lot of people can relate to. Um, and that feels, you know, tough. But then there are times when I feel like, man, if I’m not doing this, I don’t know who else would be, or, um, I can help someone down the road that, um, if I wasn’t doing it, um, I’m not sure we would have that, that knowledge. Um, so even, even throughout my PhD, I had a roommate who was like, oh, you should, you should, you know, just go and work for Google and like their speech sciences that does voice recognition stuff and you’ll get paid way more and you’ll have a better life and blah, blah, blah.

Dillon (30:30): And, uh, I was kind of offended by that. I was like, yes, I probably could do that, but that would completely abandon this, you know, sort of dream and this motivation that made me do this in the first place. You know, I wasn’t working towards just a degree because it sounded cool, or that was just the next logical step. Like this was something that I literally planned out from my freshman year in college. Um, and so it was sort of like, you know, pursue that or go out in flames trying. Um, and I think that because my motivation was so personal, it made it easier to push through some of the hard times where, um, people that maybe lacked that a little bit, you start to look around because you’re like, well, what’s, what’s the why? And I think that that is important. It’s no wrong or right answer, but I think it, you’re going to be in situations where you confront that to varying de- degrees and, um, I’m just glad that, you know, mine has, has worked out the way that, that it has.

Emily (31:37): People are allowed to make different decisions around this, right? Like, yeah, you have this personal motivation, as you said, you’ve had a long-term plan, you’ve been executing, and this is at least the first stage of the culmination of that. Um, and certainly try it out. And if you decide it’s not all that it’s cracked up to be, then you can make a pivot at some other point. That’s totally fine. Um, yeah, but I, I’m also struck by like mission-driven people also need to be paid well enough to sustain what they’re doing. So I hope that is the case for you now that you’re in this, um, this level of your career. Um, so Dillon, it’s been an absolute pleasure talking with you and hearing your story, and I think there’s so many great nuggets that listeners can have gotten from this interview depending on what stage they’re at.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (32:23): Um, I wanna conclude with the question that I ask of all my guests, which is, what is your best financial advice for another early career PhD? And it can be something that we’ve touched on in the interview already, or it can be something completely new.

Dillon (32:35): I, I sometimes struggle with that because everybody’s different and what worked for me isn’t necessarily gonna work for everybody else. Um, but something that I got in the habit of that was a huge help was just tracking my spending and knowing, learning to know exactly what I could afford. Um, and that allowed me to make some choices that were trade offs, but at least I, I sort of knew the dollar amounts and how that would impact me. So, um, yeah, I, I think that because I was on this fixed amount for so long, I had kinda my core expenses that were paid for or that I could pay for, and then it was sort of, how do I play with the margins of that and what’s that going to go towards? Um, my, my wife went to law school and took out a lot of loans and she had a very different experience where she had such massive loans that she was like, oh, what’s a hundred dollars here or a hundred dollars there, it doesn’t really matter.

Dillon (33:45): And so she didn’t have that sort of fear of God into tracking her spending because she didn’t really have to. Um, but if you don’t do that in your PhD, you can kind of quickly accumulate things that will hurt you down the road. Um, so it’s not fun, but I could kind of, after a few years, I could kind of be like, oh, alright, I have approximately, you know, $400 to appropriate this month. Where’s that gonna go and how am I gonna do it? Um, and if I know there’s something, you know, five months down the road that I’m gonna do, I can try to segment as little as I could to put towards that. Um, controversial take here is that I feel like I leveraged credit cards very well. Um, I was not a crazy points guy, but I definitely took advantage of a lot of, um, signup offers.

Dillon (34:49): I was very good about paying off my credit cards, um, for the, for the most part unless there was like a 0% APR card that I basically took out specifically for that reason. Um, and so that gave me a little bit more money. It gave me a little more flexibility, having a zero interest essentially loan. Um, and then that also did help build my credit through time. So I have a credit history that’s lengthy and positive and, you know, they’re fairly good amount of it. In fact, I was always shocked that these credit cards were granted to me for, you know, $10,000 and I’m like, I can barely afford my groceries at the end of the month and you’re just giving me 10 grand. Like, that’s crazy. But if you do it right, you can, you can make that work. Um, again, that was a super intentional and thoughtful process that I did, and you can have that go sideways really, really quickly. Um, so it’s not exactly advice for everyone, but if you can kind of thread the needle, there are good things that can come.

Emily (36:05): Well, I think the second, I don’t wanna call it advice, but the second suggestion or, you know, modeling what you did follows very well from the first you have to master and understand your own spending and develop some intuition around that before you go into, um, playing with fire a little bit, <laugh>, which is, you know, the, the credit card games and so forth you can play because the temptation with credit cards, you know, using plastic in general and then doubly, so if there’s like a benefit, you know, points or sign up bonuses or whatever, there really is a little pull there to spend more than you would if you were using other forms of payment. And so, but if you have that knowledge and intuition and the budget or whatever it is that you’re doing to kind of keep your spending in line and on track, then you can do that successfully, which it sounds like you did.

Emily (36:51): Um, so I’m very glad to hear that that worked out for you. The Points game is not, uh, controversial on this podcast, so it’s something that we’ve talked about with other graduate students and I do think it’s one of the ways that people can find a little bit more wiggle room in their spending, uh, when they’re living on a low stipend like you were. Um, so Dillon, again, it’s been such a pleasure to have you. Thank you for sharing all this, uh, with us, especially these sort of behind the scenes things and emotional things that were going on with you through these unpleasant, you know, sometimes unpleasant things that happened. Um, I just think it’s a really honest window into the graduate student experience, the PhD experience, so thank you so much for sharing it with us.

Dillon (37:28): Yeah, glad that I can share.

Outro

Emily (37:44): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.