How This Grad Student Budgets with YNAB

October 12, 2026 by Jill Hoffman Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Elle Rathbun, a rising 7th-year PhD candidate in neuroscience at UCLA and repeat podcast guest. Elle explains the budgeting principles of giving every dollar a job, getting a month ahead, and sinking funds, which are bundled together in the software You Need a Budget or YNAB. She shares how she has used YNAB since she started graduate school and how it has benefited both her net worth and anxiety about money. Elle is now planning on a career transition into an MBA program and career in venture capital, a pivot that would not be possible without the nest egg she built during grad school.

Links mentioned in the Episode

Teaser

Elle (00:00): I am very cheap. I pay for almost nothing. Um, and, uh, $109 for anything else to me is just so expensive. Um, but I know that it’s really helped me keep on track for all of my savings. I know for a fact, like, I would not have the savings that I have and my investment accounts would not be where they are if I didn’t have a really good tracking system for it.

Introduction

Emily (00:31): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (01:01): This is Season 25, Episode 4, and today my guest is Elle Rathbun, a rising 7th-year PhD candidate in neuroscience at UCLA and repeat podcast guest. Elle explains the budgeting principles of giving every dollar a job, getting a month ahead, and sinking funds, which are bundled together in the software You Need a Budget or YNAB. She shares how she has used YNAB since she started graduate school and how it has benefited both her net worth and anxiety about money. Elle is now planning a career transition into an MBA program and career in venture capital, a pivot that would not be possible without the nest egg she built during grad school. By the way, Elle shared with me a one-pager on how to get 13 months of YNAB for free, which includes her referral link, and you can find a link to that resource in the show notes.

Emily (01:53): This fall, I’m presenting four virtual seminars on personal finance topics for prospective and current funded graduate students in the US. The first two are practice rounds for presentations I’m giving at ABRCMS in November, titled The Grad Student Financial Checkup and Will the Stipend Be Enough?. The second two are chapter topics from my book, titled Increase Your Income Inside or Outside of Academia and The Most Effective Frugal Strategies for Grad Students. I invite you to participate in these seminars for free in exchange for your feedback on the material. The seminars will be on four consecutive Fridays between October 23rd and November 13, 2026. I’m unlikely to ever offer this content again in this format, so grab your spot now! Go to PFforPhDs.com/FreeSeminars/ to register. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s25e4/.
Without further ado, here’s my interview with Elle Rathbun.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

Emily (03:08): I am delighted to have back on the podcast today, Elle Rathbun, repeat podcast guest from season 19, episodes five and six. Um, Elle is a rising seventh year PhD candidate in neuroscience at UCLA. And in our prior episodes, just a couple of years ago, we talked about how enthusiastic she was about budgeting and personal finance, um, so much so that she had a coaching position, uh, on campus helping other graduate students with their personal finances. That’s the subject of the prior episodes. Today, we’re gonna still be talking about budgeting, but more about Elle’s own personal practice and use of YNAB. So Elle, welcome back on the podcast. Um, you don’t need to go through everything we went through in the previous episode, but would you just please give a little bit more detail about yourself for the audience?

Elle (03:56): Yes, absolutely. I am entering my seventh year, as you said, of my PhD in neuroscience at UCLA, and I got into personal finance, especially in the context of graduate school, uh, mainly through this podcast. I was listening to a lot of podcasts as, uh, a technician, which, uh, uh, I took two years to do before grad school. Um, and I really took that time to learn about this whole world that I had no idea about. Um, and so, uh, I am applying to business schools, uh, right now and, um, previously pivoting from a, uh, an academic track. And, um, so currently, I’m thinking a lot about, uh, where I want my finances to be, but also what does that look like if I am planning on going back to school or continuing school.

What Does Giving Every Dollar a Job Mean?

Emily (04:48): So we’re gonna talk about YNAB in a moment, but first we’re gonna talk about an even more foundational budgeting principle, which is giving every dollar a job. And I know I practiced budgeting this way when I was in graduate school as well, but I wanna hear what that, uh, means, first of all, and then we’ll talk about how you do that.

Elle (05:06): Definitely. Yes, that phrase giving every dollar a job definitely comes from YNAB and the YNAB principles. So YNAB, yes, stands for You Need a Budget. Um, it is a website that I use, um, and you can get it for free as a student for a year. And to give every dollar a job means that you know exactly what that dollar is going to eventually be used for. And so one principle is that there’s no such thing as general savings, um, but you know what that saving is for, whether that’s emergency savings for job loss or savings for a home down payment that you’re probably not even going to, um, use for another 10, 20 years, who knows? Um, but still knowing what every dollar is purpose to do, um, and eventually being okay with spending that money. And we’ll talk about that a little bit later, but for me, giving out every job, dollar a job means, um, that I am able to spend the money that I’ve already allocated for a certain something, a certain budget line item, et cetera, um, sort of letting go of this guilt of like, “Oh, but what if, should I, should I go to this concert or should I have this incredible experience even if it means that, like, that’s less money in my bank account?” Um, I think feeling secure, for instance, if you have emergency savings already, then, then you can just have a little bit more flexibility. But it also means if you give a dollar a job and now you want to use that dollar for something else, that is okay. I give myself flexibility to do that, but at least I know what I’m pulling from, right? If I decide to go to a concert instead of saving up for a travel fund to, for an international trip, sometimes, like, that is okay, but I know what I’m doing when I, when I make that sacrifice.

Emily (06:59): So you took that pretty immediately to, like, savings and having a purpose for savings, but I actually think about, I mean, I do think about it that way, but I also think about it in terms of the monthly cash flow, right? Like, your paycheck comes in and it’s whatever amount it is, but you have in advance through your budgeting practice assigned every dollar a job. So, you know, this chunk of dollars is going to your rent, this, you know, all the fixed payments, they have to happen. And then you also make an assignment for your variable expenses that you can expect to have every single month, right? Can you talk a little bit more about what, how it works on the monthly basis before we even talk about accessing savings? Or maybe YNAB is such different system. Maybe I’m thinking about it in a different way than, than YNAB presents it.

Elle (07:40): Yeah, that’s actually a fascinating difference, I think, in thinking, just because another aspect of YNAB is to get a month ahead. So everything I think of, it, I think of money as something for later, um, because I’ve already saved for the current month, ideally. So there have been a couple times where I just moved all my money towards investments and sort of started fresh. Um, and so, but for the monthly expenses, for instance, the income I have from June, I typically allocate for July expenses. Um, so my June paycheck goes towards my July rent, for instance. Um, and I, I, yeah, I have target amounts. Again, there’s flexibility required in that. And in spending that money, um, especially the, the more variable expenses, um, one thing I do is I check how much do I have in this budget line item, or budget line in order to spend this money. Like when I go grocery shopping, um, do I, have I set aside enough to, for like a full blast, like, meal prep, um, or am I going to try to challenge myself to really use the things that I have at home and, and make the grocery run a little shorter or cheaper? Um, and so I think, I think one aspect of giving every dollar a job beyond giving every dollar a job is also don’t give future dollars a job, um, right? Just focus on what you have available to you in your bank account. I think especially as graduate students, um, UCLA has had this issue where, uh, sometimes we’re not paid on time or, uh, there might be hiccups or, you know, maybe too much of your health insurance got taken out because, you know, on the backend, they forgot to allocate your stipend for it, et cetera. Um, and so, so I think giving every dollar a job means only giving all the dollars that you already have available, um, a job and not worrying about the forecasting.

“Getting a Month Ahead” or “Living on Time”

Emily (09:43): I wanna go even deeper on something that you just mentioned, which is getting a month ahead. And I think this is maybe… Although I also teach this, I call it living on time. So I don’t even say it’s ahead. I say it’s on time to live on money you already have in your bank account. Um, and in fact, I, I do the same, uh, setup that you just mentioned. All the money you receive in the course of one month, June, goes towards funding your spending in July and maybe following if you’re able to push some of it even more forward. So it doesn’t matter. Like to me, a lot of people budget by paycheck if they’re paid, you know, biweekly or bimonthly or what have you. But I’m like, no, every paycheck you receive in the course of one month, doesn’t matter if it’s one, two, three, however many, goes towards funding your subsequent month spending. Um, so I guess what I’m underst – because I don’t use YNAB myself, um, although I have read the book. Um, so what I’m understanding is that it’s almost like every dollar becomes saving first, becomes savings, and then you spend it in those fu- like it’s already in your bank account and then you spend it in the future. Is that, am I interpreting that correctly?

Elle (10:45): Yeah. Yes. For, I think for the most part, I, for instance, I don’t know how much I spend per month. I have no idea. I would be, I think I could get close to the estimation, but, um, I don’t necessarily think of I think I think of allocating money as spending it. Because I’m giving myself permission to spend it, I can spend up to that. If I spend more than that, I can move it around. Um, and so, um, so I have what’s called, like, sinking funds, for instance, and this is another YNAB term, um, where, for instance, like, car, any car maintenance things, like, I budget for that every single month, um, and, and then I just pull from it when I need to get an oil change or when something else happens. And so, um, I… And that’s, and that’s just pre, like, already allocated at the time where I am looking at that month of a monthly target. Um, and so I think my s – the actual, like, output of spending is much less known to me. I enter every single transaction in manually, so I’m familiar with about how much I’m spending per, um, per month per line item, but that total per month, it’s just so variable that I sort of just embrace the variability and not really worry about it.

Emily (12:04): And that makes sense when you have escaped the paycheck to paycheck cycle, right? Like, if you do live paycheck to paycheck, if, as long as you’re not accumulating, like, credit card debt or something, like, you know, you’re spending the full paycheck. You can’t spend more, you’re probably not spending less either, um, but that’s what this cycle is that you’re in. But since you’re, again, I’m sort of framing it as, like, you’re, like, saving first, you just have pools of money that you pull from. Did that money come in from your most recent paycheck? Did it come in from an earlier paycheck? It doesn’t really matter. Well, I know YNAB tracks that, but it’s all been pulled together. But I’m curious about something… So I have taught many times on this podcast, and I know you, you probably listened to them about what I call target savings, what YNAB calls sinking funds, same, uh, concept. Um, but what I’m wondering about are your variable expenses that occur on a monthly basis, and groceries is a perfect example of that. So do you, I guess, have an amount of money that you’re trying to keep your spending within on a, that’s sort of the same on a monthly basis, or are you just like, “This is my grocery pool of money, and it kind of waxes and wanes, and I just spend whatever’s available in that if I want to”?

Accounting for Variable Expenses Using YNAB Principles

Elle (13:15): Yes. The way I tend to do it is I have a set amount, or I decide as I’m building a budget for the month, um, of money that I can give a job, or give a job for that month. Like these are all the monies for this month. Um, and so for those variable expenses, I allocate per target line item, et cetera. Um, and I’m pretty bad at guessing how much I’m going to spend. I would love to spend less on dining out, and every month I spend more than I intend to. Um, but what ends up happening is I then end up just borrowing from other, uh, other budget lines, essentially. So if I dine out more, I’m probably eating fewer groceries anyway, and so I just sort of take that money, put it down. Um, if it was part of my, like, if I go out to dinner with a bunch of friends, um, in particular, and that put me over, then I’ll borrow from, like, my fun money category. Um, and so that’s, that’s sort of my approach. And then sometimes I do… I try to have a scarcity mindset as well. Like, I, uh, I make it so that I don’t ever have too much money to play with that is within my budget, um, because I just try to invest as much as I can. And so that helps with the scarcity mindset of I only have this much money. Maybe I booked a trip, for instance, or I had to book a hotel. Um, there were a lot of weddings this spring, uh, where I didn’t necessarily save up for all of them. And then I borrow from my larger sinking funds, knowing that eventually, like, over the months, I would sort of pay them back. So I did borrow from my, my car, car maintenance budget, um, to, to fund some of the, the trips I took this spring. Um, but I also know that I, like, I gave myself permission to do that. I know fundamentally I have actual savings that can be for that. Um, I have, like, a, a saving fund for, like, my vehicle. So if something actually happened to my car, I still have a backup. Um, and so… Which is not necessarily recommended, but it has helped me save because it forces the scarcity mindset.

Emily (15:31): Yeah, I totally understand. So it sounds like with the YNAB system, and I know YNAB has this reputation of, like, oh, there’s such a learning curve. And I can see from our conversation already, like, you have to have a different mindset, and then you mechanically have to do a lot of, like, adjustments and playing around with numbers. So it sounds to me like you, at least once per month, are doing this projection of what, you know, the dollars are getting jobs, like, for the subsequent month. And then also, as you go along, there’s probably some corrections and, and so forth that need to made because things didn’t go exactly according to the plan. Uh, is, is that correct?

Elle (16:05): Yes, very much so. Spot on. Yeah, I budget… I go in and update absolutely everything about every two weeks, and that’s how often I pay off all my credit cards as well. Um, and so I… So that’s when I enter all my transactions manually, if I forgot to do it on the app, which I have just become really bad about. Um, and, uh, and then I go through every transaction, I see if they, um, match, like, my memory. Sometimes, very rarely, but sometimes there is a charge where I’m like, “That wasn’t me. That wasn’t my authorized user.” I think that that’s fraud. And so, um, but I also just… I think it’s a good way to engage with where my money is going, um, and to sort of root myself in how I’m spending my time in general. Um, if I am eating out at, uh, you know, if nice restaurants in LA, like, that’s incredibly expensive, but it also gives me a chance to reflect, like, was that worth it? Like, was that experience worth it with my friends? And sometimes a, a lot of the time, the answer is yes, but then it also comes with, like, “Okay, well, how am I going to do that better next month?” Um, and so, uh, there is, like, an optional, uh, import, automatic import from banks. Like they have, they have their own system to just import all that data. Um, and I think that’s valuable, but I, I always think that it’s time well spent doing all of that manually.

Emily (17:31): The phrase I use for that when you have a, a significant degree of manual manipulation going on with your numbers is that… I, I call it staying intimate with your finances and not just having it all going on in the background. Um, but I am wondering what you do have going on in the background. Like, given that you are quite attentive to these numbers and all the transactions, are you doing, like, manual, manually paying your credit cards, for example, or do you have those things on autopay? What about your other bills? Is that manual or automa – or automatic?

Elle (17:59): Uh, good question. So all my utilities are automatic, um, and those are the only bills that are automatic, because, like, wifi, water, gas. Um, rent is manual. All my credit cards have always been manual payments, um, and partially because I’m a little bit scared of overdraft fees, even though my bank doesn’t charge overdraft fees, if I rack up 14 of them because I have 14 credit cards, um, then, uh, then that could be a problem because, you know, there’s a limit. Um, and so I think because I am very into utilizing and maximizing the utility of the, my credit cards, and because I have so many, doing it manually is just better for me, especially because I can line the… It doesn’t… I don’t really care when my credit card statements are due. I know I’m going to pay them ahead of time. That’s been really useful in keeping my credit score down, um, because I never have that much utilization bec – uh, if I pay it off before it gets reported. And so, um, yeah, my approach has always just been do everything manually.

Emily (19:10): If listeners didn’t follow <laugh> along with what we just said about credit cards, I have a… It’s an article on the website, or maybe it’s a podcast episode, but it’s called Perfect Use of a Credit Card. So check that out if you’re confused about credit cards and utilization ratios and how it affects your score and all those kinds of things. Um, now, when we had our last interview, one of the subjects we spoke about was how you were, um, because you took on this additional coaching job at UCLA, you actually increased your stipend, but that also meant that you needed to increase your spending because you were spending more time working and had less time to do other things. And so I’m wondering how, like, were you using YNAB at the time, and how did YNAB help you with those decisions about actually it makes more sense to spend more on occasion in certain areas, um, and making those decisions and also, like, not feeling guilty about it? Like you kind of mentioned that earlier, like, reducing guilt because you’re, I guess, following the plan, but can you expand on that, please?

How Meeting Your Savings Goals Encourages Intentional Spending

Elle (20:05): Yeah, absolutely. I think, especially during that time, and now, I have another part-time position on campus now, um, that sort of went into the same calculation. Um, a lot of it just is based on my savings goal. I have a certain savings goal per month, um, and that is pretty solidified. Um, and I am typically able to make it, but the sacri – in terms of scarcity mindset, again, what do I have to do in order to make the savings goal. Um, and so when my income increases, uh, then, and my savings goal stays the same, then the budget automatically, I can have a little bit more flexibility in, and that number that I go into the budget thinking of, um, I just ended up raising, right? So if I had a certain number in mind pre-part-time job, um, then I would bump it by, like, $200 a month, it’s, uh, for instance, uh, and a lot of that would just kind of go into that dining out fund, um, or prepared foods fund. And so, it’s really… And I think that’s been really helpful, is to just really ground it in the savings capability, because at the end of the day, like, that’s, that’s where I want a lot of my money to go. I want it to go towards retirement and, and home planning, um, or at least a way to make more money, um, and, uh, and build wealth that way. So I really just root it in, in my savings goals and then build off of that. And I increased my savings… I ended up increasing my savings as well, um, and so that worked.

Emily (21:39): I think I had a similar experience when I first started using a budget because, because I was, you know, setting and meeting some savings goals, I then knew that I could do whatever with the rest of the money. And so instead of having, like, a question of, like, is it okay if I spend over here, um, is it gonna mess up something else? Am I then not gonna be able to pay my rent or, like, not be able to, you know, do something else that’s really necessary because I made this elective spending decision somewhere else? The whole budget process and knowing that I was reaching savings goals gave me permission to spend in those areas, like, yeah, okay, I didn’t strictly need to buy that, you know, item of clothing or whatever I could’ve done without it, but it was okay because I’m doing all these other things. It’s all planned out. Like, every dollar has a job, like you were saying earlier. Um, I know my dollars are doing their job with the rent and all the necessary expenses, so these dollars have the ability to do their job with discretionary spending. Um, so it just was a confidence booster to know that there was a plan, um, and that everything was being fulfilled within the plan. And yeah, kind of at the end of the day, like, money, we ideally do wanna put a chunk of it towards our future because that’s how our society works. We need to provide for ourselves, um, in our, um, elder years or when we’re not able to work. Um, but then after that, you get to have experiences of whatever type. You make purchases, you have services, whatever they are, um, and so it’s, it’s really up to you to, to spend it how you want to, and you don’t need to feel guilty about it, right, especially if you’re meeting those savings goals, because that’s providing for yourself over there.

Elle (23:13): Exactly. I think that that’s such a huge part of financial, what we call financial wellness, which is, you know, sometimes I’ll be talking to my friend and they’re like, “Okay, don’t, don’t say anything. I know you want me to save, but I, like, did this.” And I’m like, “No, that was a good experience. Use your money for things that you like and that you want to do.” Um, and so I think I just… Yeah, I’m a big advocate for intentional spending, um, but I’m not really a big advocate for less spending, if that makes sense. Um, and so… And I think the two often get conflated, and really, they’re not. Um, I think you can spend a lot of money, um, unintentionally, and that’s what I personally want to avoid. And you can spend a lot of money intentionally, which is great if you have that money and you’ve taken into account these other factors in your life. Um, and so, absolutely, I think giving every dollar job, and then knowing what job you’re pulling from when you’re being flexible is just incredibly important in being intentional.

Emily (24:14): I also take that same principle, and I apply it to the term, um, lifestyle inflat – lifestyle inflation, right? So, like, this is a big boogeyman in, like, the personal finance space lifestyle inflation. Oh, no. When you get a raise, like, you’re just gonna inflate more and spend more mindlessly. And that does happen, um, for sure. And it’s not good because it doesn’t necessarily align with your values, but, like, I’m definitely in favor of, in favor of what I call lifestyle increases. So, like, yes, when you go from grad student to postdoc or postdoc to, you know, permanent full-time position, like, those are significant jumps in your income, and you should have a difference in your spending and your savings levels. Um, but it should come with some, like, reflection and intentionality and not just, “Oh, whoops, I don’t know where the money went,” right? So, like, it absolutely… Money helps you have experiences you want, it helps you fulfill your values and so forth, but, like, only if we do it with some intention.

Elle (25:05): Absolutely. I think, especially as someone who moved to LA during the pandemic, I started grad school in 2020, um, and something happened that year where, <laugh> um, right, I, I wasn’t going out to eat, and I didn’t have a car then because I moved from Chicago and I just didn’t have a car there. Now, my spending looks incredibly different now with a car, with friends through, throughout the city, um, as it did, you know, my first month in LA. And abs – that was a lifestyle increase. Like, I am enjoying my life, and I give myself permission to enjoy my life, but I also just take in mind, “Okay, what am I sacrificing?” Um, and when I’m sacrificing just, like, gains in a taxable brokerage, that’s fine. I’m fine with sacrificing at least some of that in order to enjoy my life now.

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Emily (25:53): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, budgeting, or designing your financial life, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer live workshops, asynchronous online courses, and cohort-based programs on these topics, and I’m now booking for the 2026-2027 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, medical school, postdoc office, or postdoc association? My workshops are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

How YNAB Differs From Other Budgeting Systems

Emily (27:22): So we talked quite a bit about how YNAB requires a mindset shift <laugh> as well as learning, you know, how to use a, a new piece of software. Um, so is there anything else that you want to elaborate on when it comes to how you use YNAB specifically, or how YNAB is different from other, like, systems that you might use for budgeting or cashflow management?

Elle (27:41): Definitely. I, I previously used Mint, and Mint is no longer RIP. And, uh, for Mint, that did involve primarily expense tracking, so what you’ve already done with your money and forecasting, what do you want to do with the money that you’re expecting? Um, and YNAB does, you can use it for expense tracking, um, but you can’t really use it for forecasting. Like, is it in your bank account? No, you do not have it. Um, and so it sort of boils down to w – uh, the envelope, the analog envelope, uh, method, which is, okay, one envelope is for rent. That money, you have it, you put it in the rent envelope, groceries, et cetera. And, um, and if you don’t have that money, you can’t put it in an envelope. And so, there is this idea of expense tracking versus budgeting, um, which is, again, a s – the budgeting aspect is assigning jobs to those dollars, um, whereas expense tracking is like, “Oh, whoops, I overspent again.” And to some degree, I use it for expense tracking because, like, I don’t update my budget all the time. Um, and, uh, but as someone who was just starting out using YNAB in 2020, um, I, I did use it, like, every day because it was sort of a game to me. I s – I, I liked doing it, but also I was using it for its purpose, uh, where I was checking my budget, seeing how much I already spent, and seeing how much I had for the rest of the month to spend. The other aspect of YNAB that I like a lot is it has, uh, a tracking, uh, component to it. So you have your budget and you have your tracking. And once you move money from budget to tracking within YNAB, it doesn’t necessarily need to be a physical, like, different account. I use, like, Ally Buckets, for instance, but if you have an account in tracking, that is outside your budget. So when I invest, that goes from my budget, like, long-term savings line, and it spends it as a transfer to my, uh, my brokerage. And so that’s been a really great, great way for me to figure out how much am I actually contributing and investing, um, and it makes calculations for, uh, splits of how much I’m sort of assigning in my head of like, okay, this is for vehicle, this is for retirement, this is for home. Um, it, it, it gives me like a nice pie chart essentially. Um, and so I can see sort of the percentages because it’s also different when I actually look at the value of those investment accounts because of the gains from those accounts. And so that’s something that I, I don’t know if other, uh, other budgeting software mechanisms do that, but it’s something that I really appreciate.

Emily (30:29): Yes, I was a Mint user for many, many years until it went away. And Mint is absolutely on that like template budget system, like you were saying. Um, and one of the reasons why I never really used Mint fully, like I’ve always used my own system in addition to something that aggregates and tracks things for me. Um, I find that part of it very helpful. So something that I’ve come to learn about myself through doing this podcast and talking with people about how they do their budgeting, um, is that I really like having like separate accounts or separate sub-buckets, like you were just mentioning, um, for different purposes. But it sounds to me like YNAB is doing that. Like you could probably literally have all this money in your checking account. I mean, it wouldn’t be a good idea, but mechanically it could all reside in the checking account and then YNAB does all the differentiating and all the things for you.

Emily (31:15): So I’m just wondering, like you did mention you have Ally, for example, but like how many actual different accounts are you using and how much are you relying on YNAB for that, um, the splits and the differentiation?

Elle (31:26): Good question. So I really only have one checking account, one savings account, and then I I do have like a CD for my emergency savings, um, which is not part of my budget, um, which is another component. I’m not even tempted to do that because I’m like, ugh, then I have to move it back into the budget and that’ll look like income, et cetera. Um, and so, um, but that’s really, that’s all I have, uh, for, for actual cash money that is available to me. And then, um, ex- exactly, like, YNAB makes all those splits themselves. And it’s also the reason why I can keep up with all of my credit cards scattered throughout different banks, is I just go down the, the YNAB list, see, you know, go to that account, look at my statement, put in my transactions, pay it next. Um, and so it actually doesn’t take that long. And, um, but yeah, the YNAB definitely helps differentiate between jobs for those dollars without requiring a bunch of different accounts or even buckets. The buckets are wildly necessary, and I really only use them for, uh, for, for instance, my, like, Roth IRA for next year, um, is, is its own bucket.

Emily (32:36): Yeah, it definitely seems like a lot of the systems that I teach, YNAB was just like, shoot, we just do it all in this software. And as you mentioned, grad students can get this for free for one year with their student status. After that, I think it’s something like 100 or 120 a year, is that right?

Elle (32:50): It’s 109 a year, yes.

Emily (32:52): Okay. So just going into it, if you fall in love with the software, <laugh> you’re gonna be paying, um, a little bit more for it after that first year. Bringing it back around to how we started this conversation, like, all this effort, you know, that you put into budgeting, it does sound like a significant amount of time to stay this intimate with your finances and use the software. Like, how has this helped you throughout your grad school journey with, that could be, like, literally with, “Okay, I saved all these dollars, like, amazing,” or it could be, um, about stress or any, any way you wanna take this.

How YNAB Can Reduce Your Money Stress

Elle (33:20): Definitely. I, I come from a very low income background, and so saving money was always, like, a game for me and my mom. Like, I would collect coupons, we would go through them together, et cetera. And so, um, how that manifested as a young adult, especially someone who just graduated college, um, and through the first year or two of grad school, is I then had a lot of anxiety around spending money, um, especially if I noticed that I could have gotten the same thing that I got in one place for cheaper somewhere else. And so, um, and that was not healthy. Like, it was to an unhealthy degree where I would get, like, actually pretty upset about it. And, um, to the point where I was like, “This, th- that 50 cents does not matter. Like, let it go.” Um, and so YNAB was actually really helpful in me letting that go, me saying, “Okay, no, I’m good. I have my emergency fund. I have put aside the savings that will allow my money to grow, and this money has already been allocated for this. If I don’t spend it on this, I will spend it on something similar anyway.” Um, and it also kind of helped… It aligned with me taking on a bunch of, like, side gigs where I was just like, “No, my money or my time is worth money now, um, and real money now. It’s not just like a, you know, a high school throwaway job for, for a couple hours. It’s something where I’m like, no, I can actually build wealth if, but I can’t build wealth and I can’t work well, um, if I have this mental weight on me that is just so completely unnecessary.” Um, and so just having that number, having that green number in YNAB saying, like, “Hey, you still got $70 for groceries? You’re good. Just buy the groceries.” Um, and so that’s been, yeah, a huge, hu – uh, progress in t- terms of mental wellness, uh, in my, in my respect, or in respect to, to finances. Um, it all, honestly, the, I pa – I am very cheap. I pay for almost nothing. Um, and, uh, $109 for anything else to me is just so expensive. Um, but I know that it’s really helped me keep on track for all of my savings. I know for a fact, like, I would not have the savings that I have and my investment accounts would not be where they are if I didn’t have a really good tracking system for it. Um, but also, I’m so motivated, and I’m sure a lot of this audience could relate, I’m so motivated by data, um, and YNAB is just really good at presenting a lot of your own data. So now I can go back six years and see that progress, and I’m still motivated to continue the scarcity mindset, right? Like, of course, we’re grad students, like, we only are making so much money, um, but it’s not necessarily the amount you put in, uh, the, the investment account or the, the savings account. It’s really the momentum and the habits you build. And YNAB has just been a really good habit that, you know, looking at one month, okay, fine, but looking at the progress, um, has been really helpful.

Emily (36:39): I’m gonna ask you about this career pivot again in a moment. But before I do that, I’m thinking of an audience member who’s listening to us and you’re six years into using YNAB. I’m a lot of years into caring about my personal finances, and they might be like, “These people are not speaking to me where I am,” because maybe we’re speaking to a graduate student who is not living on time, is not a month ahead, is in fact behind every single month, living paycheck to paycheck, accumulating debt, maybe paying it down sometimes. Like, can, even if you don’t have personal experience with this, or maybe you do have some from when you started your journey, um, can you speak to how the software might be able to help a person who is, like, really drowning and not managing their cashflow and definitely not ahead and definitely does not have savings?

Elle (37:21): I used to coach students who were in these types of situations, and I’m not completely unfamiliar with that situation myself. Um, ignoring a problem will not help solve the problem, and that’s what a lot of people do tend to do. They’ll at least ignore a part of it. With something like YNAB, again, I’m not sponsoring YNAB in any way, shape or form. Use whatever. Yeah. Um, and so, but with YNAB in particular, um, or any budgeting system and tracking system, it really forces you to confront the reality. Um, maybe you do have to spend more than you are making per month. Maybe all of those line items are completely necessary and you’ve already shaved down everything. Then hiding from that is not going to help. Um, but knowing how much more you need to make per month in order to make it work is incredibly empowering information so you know, okay, I gotta go tutor, or I have to get a part-time job, or this program is not going to be sustainable for me. Um, and so I think it, the sooner you can start a good habit, um, and the sooner you can identify the things that need to change, then the better you’re going to be. Um, and so, so YNAB, any other budgeting system, really makes the reality sink in, I think. Um, because you’re giving every dollar a job, and if there just aren’t enough dollars, then, then you need more, frankly. Um, and so, but you don’t wanna take on too much either. And so, so I, yeah, I, I believe in the power of, of personal data, um, and s – and knowing, knowing how sustainable something like grad school, something like a long-term commitment that grad school is, is going to be. Um, it can be, it can be helpful. And if you don’t like it, then that’s, that’s okay. If it doesn’t work for you, that’s okay. But I think it’s a good first step in finding out what does work.

Emily (39:26): And you have that first year free. So, like, you’ll be investing some time into it, but at least you don’t have to pay the fee until you know that it’s working for you. And it can be really chaotic and confusing with, like, well, I have a pocket of money here and a pocket of money here, but I also have these credit cards and everything’s just flowing around. And, like, at what point do I even take a snapshot and look? And I’m sure the software or any software that you might engage with would, like, help you, um, feel more organized around that. And like you said, just actually, like, kind of face up to the situation. Um, like you said, it doesn’t, it doesn’t help to just keep feeling stressed and terrible, but not, but also frozen and not able to take any action to really change either the income or the expenses, uh, or both, uh, sides of the equation.

Elle (40:09): Definitely. I think I also just, I have, I have, I think maybe 20, over 20 different accounts, if you include all the credit card accounts, all the savings accounts, brokerages, et cetera, across, like, at least 10 different banks, just organize it. I think building that good habit is really gonna come down to organization. And so any, again, any way you can organize that and, and face it is going to be incredibly useful in addressing it.

Emily (40:37): And I do think this concept, even if you weren’t using the software specifically, but the being a month ahead, the living on time, as I call it, like, this concept is actually really unfamiliar, I think, to most people, but it’s so, so, so helpful that, yes, you only spend money that you have already actually received. You’re not putting something on a credit card that you don’t have the money to already pay. Like, um, again, living on time to me is like using credit cards like debit cards. Sounds like it’s exactly how you use it as well, but the money has to already be in the account before you spend it, even though technically you don’t have to pay off the credit card for, you know, some weeks into the future. That can just really trip people up and become very confusing.

Elle (41:15): Definitely. And I understand that sometimes you just have to put something on a credit card and you don’t have the money to pay it. And that is, if that’s what needs to happen, okay. But then having a plan to pay off that credit card is more important than putting it on the credit card without that money in the bank account. And so, um, don’t, yeah, don’t lose the, the forest for the trees.

How Budgeting, Saving, and Investing During Grad School Allowed for a Career Pivot

Emily (41:38): So you mentioned earlier that you’re now gonna pursue an MBA, um, instead of the, you know, more traditional academic track that you had expected to be on at this point. Um, how has your budgeting, your saving, your investing, all those efforts that you’ve been doing during graduate school, um, contributed to or enabled the possibility of this career shift?

Elle (41:59): In a podcast years ago, someone referred to money as freedom units, and I think that, that really stuck with me. Um, and money, I think, is just flexibility in life. Like, the end goal for me is not to have a certain dollar amount, um, although that is kinda nice. Um, but it’s really what, what can I do and what more can I do if I have this money, if I have this flexibility? And so I think going into something like an MBA where I would have to pay for at least some aspect of school or living expenses, um, would not be possible if I was in the same situation that I was in when I was a technician, right? I just did not have savings and I needed a job and I had nothing to fall back on and no retirement savings, et cetera, right? I could not delay that for even two years. Um, whereas now, I can really take a step back, figure out what’s, what I would enjoy as a next step, what would be good for my career as the next step, um, and really find where they intersect without having the pressure of, like, I need to take out student loans, but I need to take out private student loans because of this new cap. Um, and, you know, I can, I can now see the system a little bit better, um, and even play the system a little bit better. And, and just having that flexibility has been almost everything in terms of figuring out what, what to do next. Even if I decide to do a postdoc at the end of all this, I think doing a postdoc where we’re not, postdocs are just in academia are just not paid as well as industry positions, um, even doing a postdoc is something that I can really only consider because of the savings that I have, um, if I decide to move to, like, a high cost of living area. And so it, it has definitely impacted my career in just giving me flexibility and being able to pursue what I want to pursue.

Emily (44:05): Beautiful. I’m so happy that… And maybe you have the same experience, but, like, I also came to a similar point by the end of graduate school that I realized that the saving and the investing and the nest egg that I, that my husband and I had at that point enabled both of us to pursue careers that were very meaningful to us, although more uncertain in terms of income and cash flow. So at that stage, that was, like, so crucial that I had that money to be able to make that shift. But I had no idea when I started my postbac and I read my first book about personal finance and first started saving that that would be the end result just seven or eight years later. It was actually not, like, that long of a period of time. So I just, I guess, uh, le – we’ll leave the listeners with kind of a final exhortation of, like, you don’t know how having savings or having these mindsets or having these practices is going to benefit you in the future. You don’t know exactly how, but it for sure is going to <laugh> in some way. And so it’s worth it even as an early on graduate student or even as a later stage graduate, or whatever point you find this, it’s worth it to start putting in that effort and learning about this aspect of your own personal wellness because it is gonna pay off in, in some way and probably sooner than you think.

Elle (45:14): Absolutely. I 100% agree.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (45:18): Well, Elle, it’s been so delightful to speak with you again. Um, and I want you to leave us with your current best financial advice for another early career PhD, and it can be something that we’ve touched on in the interview already, or it can be something completely new.

Elle (45:35): Definitely. So something that we did touch on a little bit was the idea of an emergency fund. And one thing that I’ve been a huge proponent for, um, for a while now, but now I am listing it as, like, my best financial advice, is to identify what that emergency fund is, what you will grant yourself permission to use it for, and how much you will need for each item that you are considering an emergency. Um, and I think that that’s one of the most foundational aspects of financial wellness, is that sense of security even before investing, right? Maybe you can start investing a little bit, but once that emergency fund is set, it is such a load off that it really allows you to make decisions without having to worry about very key foundational aspects of just your life. Um, and it’ll give you the, the flexibility needed in, in case of one of those emergencies.

Emily (46:36): So I’ll ask you to expand just a tiny bit on that, which is that a lot of classic personal finance advice says, “Okay, uh, save a certain number of months of expenses as your emergency fund.” Sometimes it’s three or six or nine different numbers get thrown around. But you’re saying, “Okay, think about the possible uses of this emergency fund.” And I think that classic advice comes from job loss. Like, if you were to lose your entire income and you have to fund your entire life from your savings, how long is it gonna take you to find another position? Three, six, nine, 12 months? What is it? So that’s kind of the logic there, but you’re, you’re using a different justification, so I wonder if you could expand on that a little bit.

Elle (47:10): Job loss is going to be a huge part of an emergency fund, I think, in any, in any position. Um, and so I think especially for graduate students, we have somewhat typically uh, job stability, and so that job loss might be a little bit, um, less in terms of how much you save for that job loss, especially-

Emily (47:31): And Elle is speaking as someone who lost her funding recently – <laugh>… And ha – some behind the scenes pivots had to happen. So even in that, you’re still speaking to this is typically secure.

Elle (47:41): Typically secure. At least there will be signs when it becomes less secure, I think, especially if you have a program that is typically very supportive of their graduate students. And so job loss, again, but also how long will it take you to find a job after your PhD? It depends on how close you are to finishing your PhD. And so that should always, I think, be the first line item, and that’s the bulk of my emergency fund, that’s a bulk of a lot of people’s emergency funds. But I think a problem that I’ve seen people run into, students, professionals, et cetera, is that they sort of know how much is in their bank account, and it’s all emergency fund slush money. And it’s not quite clear how much of that they can reach into for something fun, for something necessary, and for something absolutely critical. And so I just think having a number of… no, like, I am considering my car breaking down as an emergency because that is something I would have to fix immediately, and I don’t necessarily foresee it, but it is a possibility, like, that would be something that could go into an emergency fund. Whereas for me, like, I have an emergency fund for my car, but I also have a car maintenance sinking fund, right? So registration, I don’t consider an emergency, but sometimes it creeps up on people. And so, um, things like, okay, if, say, I need to… Say I have a family member in Taiwan who passes away, and I need to book a last minute flight to see them, like, that would be an emergency for me, so I allocate a certain amount of money for that emergency. And so, just kind of going through different scenarios, again, because I don’t want to be stressed in an emergency about my finances, having that ability to be like, “No, I’m good. I saved for that. Maybe I didn’t save quite enough, but I saved a decent amount for it,” um, is incredibly empowering in and of itself.

Emily (49:35): I, I’m glad you answered in that way because th- this is very similar, almost identical to what I teach when I talk about, okay, we have an emergency fund, and then also this concept of targeted savings and sinking funds, because there is an interplay between the two. Like, if you have no other savings, a lot of things are emergencies, but at some point when you have, like, a basic emergency fund in place, then you can start to think about some of these would be emergencies as inevitabilities or, like, likelihoods where you can save in kind of a different bucket for it. And when I teach about targeted savings, one of the prompts that I use is what do you fear will happen in the upcoming year? So it’s not like a completely out of left field, “Oh, I had no idea this medical event, it was… nothing could have, you know, forecast that this would happen.” That would be a real true emergency, but, like, yeah, your car needing some kind of repair at some point, like, y- y- you know, like, that’s a little bit more foreseeable, or like you mentioned, that maybe you have an ailing family member, things like this are like, “Well, it’s kind of coming up on the horizon.” So, again, the, the emergency fund is the basis of that, but then once you are building more on that, you can start to think about these other possibilities in a way that overlaps kind of between emergency and also sinking funds/targeted savings. Okay, now we really have to <laugh> end this interview. It’s been so wonderful to speak you, with you again, Elle. Thank you so much for explaining YNAB and your use of YNAB and what it’s done for you, um, for the audience. And good luck with finishing your PhD and your next endeavor.

Elle (51:03): Thank you so much. Always a pleasure to be on the show, and thank you. I’m obviously a huge fan, um, so thank you for all you do, Emily.

Outro

Emily (51:14): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? We have collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to view transcripts or videos of each episode? We link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

How You and Your Higher-Earning Partner Manage Your Money Affects Relationship Satisfaction

September 28, 2026 by Jill Hoffman Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Dr. Emily Garbinsky, an associate professor of marketing at Cornell who studies how couples behave with their money. Emily first reviews the common models for structuring money within couples and the surprising effect the choice has on relationship satisfaction. Emily and Emily then discuss income disparities, such as those between a PhD trainee and a higher-earning partner, and how power dynamics can affect how couples choose to split expenses. Finally, Emily shares her thoughts about how to adapt when an income disparity shrinks or even flips and the unique career challenge facing academics and their partners.

Links mentioned in the Episode

How You and Your Higher-Earning Partner Manage Your Money Affects Relationship Satisfaction

Teaser

Emily G (00:00): Based on the science that’s out there, I don’t think we can make a claim that joint finances lead to objectively better financial decisions, but we do know that it helps to get couples on the same page, so it at least helps with more transparency and can help them achieve their goals.

Introduction

Emily (00:18): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (00:50): This is Season 25, Episode 3, and today my guest is Dr. Emily Garbinsky, an associate professor of marketing at Cornell who studies how couples behave with their money. Emily first reviews the common models for structuring money within couples and the surprising effect the choice has on relationship satisfaction. Emily and I then discuss income disparities, such as those between a PhD trainee and a higher-earning partner, and how power dynamics can affect how couples choose to split expenses. Finally, Emily shares her thoughts about how to adapt when an income disparity shrinks or even flips and the unique career challenge facing academics and their partners.

Emily (01:34): This fall, I’m presenting four virtual seminars on personal finance topics for prospective and current funded graduate students in the US. The first two are practice rounds for presentations I’m giving at ABRCMS in November, titled The Grad Student Financial Checkup and Will the Stipend Be Enough?. The second two are chapter topics from my book, titled Increase Your Income Inside or Outside of Academia and The Most Effective Frugal Strategies for Grad Students. I invite you to participate in these seminars for free in exchange for your feedback on the material. The seminars will be on four consecutive Fridays between October 23rd and November 13, 2026. I’m unlikely to ever offer this content again in this format, so grab your spot now! Go to PFforPhDs.com/FreeSeminars/ to register. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s25e3/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Dr. Emily Garbinsky.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

Emily R (02:47): I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today Dr. Emily Garbinski, who is an associate professor of marketing at Cornell in the SC Johnson College of Business. I actually heard Emily on an episode of So Money, which is one of my favorite podcasts. It was published back in February of 2026, if you wanna go back and listen to that episode. Farnoosh Torabi is the host of that podcast. It’s an excellent episode and it just got me thinking about how we could leverage Emily’s expertise for the topics that I and you care about as funded graduate students and postdocs and early career PhDs. And specifically, we’re gonna be talking about couples and money and how couples handle finances. And specifically, we’re gonna get down to when there are income disparities, as you might be experiencing in your own relationship if you’re in one, and even what happens when those income disparities flip polarity. So we’ll get to that by the end of the interview. Emily, I’m so excited that you agreed to join me on the podcast. Would you please introduce yourself a little bit further for the listeners?

Emily G (03:45): Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be on the show. So as mentioned, my name’s Emily Garbinski. I’m an associate professor of marketing at Cornell. Just some background on me. So I did my undergraduate education, Carnegie Mellon University, and I got a bachelor’s in decision science. From there, I moved to west coast best coast and spent five years getting my PhD in marketing from Stanford. My first academic job was at the University of Notre Dame. I spent six years on the faculty there, and then I moved to Cornell, and I’ve been here for five years.

From Decision Science to How Couples Manage Their Finances

Emily R (04:22): Excellent. Thank you so much for elaborating there. Just based on what you’ve mentioned so far, decision science and marketing, I’m not hearing personal finance, I’m not hearing relationships in that yet. Like how did you specifically come to this research topic? And what exactly is your research topic?

Emily G (04:37): Yes. So when I was working on my PhD, at that time I was really interested in consumer financial decision making. And so I was really focusing on questions like how can we help people save more money for the future and how can we make sure that people are prepared for retirement? And to my surprise, a lot of work in the space focused on individual decision making, right? So how can we help individuals make better choices with their own money? But as we all know, our relationship partners play a really big role in the extent to which we decide to spend versus save our money. And I kind of noticed that there was this, this gap in the literature. There wasn’t a ton of people doing research in this space. And so I started working on one project, looking at how couples manage finances and just realized that it was my favorite project that I was working on and then another project followed and another. And now I would say it’s my primary focus and where I feel like my biggest contributions have been in personal finance literature.

Three Models for Structuring Your Financial Accounts as a Couple

Emily R (05:45): Very exciting and one of the reasons I’m so excited to have you on the show today. So when I was first becoming interested in personal finance, and this might have been back around 2010, something like that, I remember reading a few papers on how couples structured their money and the papers were probably even older than that. And I remember there being like three basic models, and you can tell me if there’s any updates to this, of fully joint finances, we pool everything together, fully separate, nothing is pooled whatsoever, and a hybrid model, a yours, mine and ours model where there’s some joint, some pooling, and some separation. And at the time that I was reading about that, again, probably 15 plus years ago, it was very much the most common model to have a complete pooling. And so I’m wondering what are the updates on this? Are those the models that are still being used? And specifically for my audience, which is likely Gen Z or younger millennials, how are young couples today structuring their finances on a population level?

Emily G (06:45): Sure. I’ll answer this sort of in two parts. With your first part about sort of account structure, you’re absolutely right that this is a three-part model, pool everything, have a partial pooling approach, keep everything separate. And so this is also where I started when I began investigating how couples manage finances. So the first question I had is like, how should we be pooling our finances, if at all? And perhaps most importantly, are there consequences to how you pool your finances with your partner? And so I’ve looked at this from, I would say two different angles. And so the first angle or the first question that I wanted to tackle is how does the decision to pool or not affect how you decide to spend your money or the types of things that you’re spending your money on? As you can imagine, since I’m in marketing, I was very interested in consumption related consequences. And so what my co-author and I found is that when you spend money from a joint bank account, you experience a much higher need to be able to justify how you spend that money to your partner. And because we experience a higher need to justify, we’re more likely to buy products that we consider to be responsible or utilitarian, and we’re much less likely to buy products that are associated with sort of happiness or what we call hedonic products. And so we see this very consistently over and over again, that people are purchasing or leaning towards purchasing different types of things depending on the account from which they’re spending from. And so that sort of led me to this question of how does account pooling affect how satisfied you are with your relationship overall? And so something that both I found and another wonderful co-author, Jenny Olson, has an amazing paper where she actually randomly assigns newlywed couples to either merge their finances or keep all of their finances completely separate. And she followed them over a two-year period and found that over the course of the two years, couples that had their finances completely pooled experienced much higher satisfaction in their relationship than couples that kept everything completely separate.

Emily R (09:10): That is fascinating. And how rarely do you get to do an experiment like that where you actually get to assign people randomly to groups? Amazing. I’m curious, were there any follow-on questions about not only relationship satisfaction, but maybe life satisfaction overall or perhaps net worth growth? Like how did it actually not just affect their feelings, but their, yeah, their wealth?

Emily G (09:33): So it’s very difficult actually to look at objective net worth differences just because there’s so many different factors that would affect that over time. But if you think about something like life satisfaction, we know, for example, that relationship satisfaction is a really big part of. And so I would imagine we would see increases in life satisfaction through one satisfaction with their relationship. But I think based on the science that’s out there, I don’t think we can make a claim that joint finances lead to objectively better financial decisions, but we do know that it helps to get couples on the same page, so it at least helps with more transparency and can help them achieve their goals.

Emily R (10:18): I guess I just had that question because when you were phrasing it of buying more utilitarian type products from a joint account and not so much the hedonic products or services, I was just thinking that like some people need that accountability to meet their financial goals, for example, and so that actually might result in more savings or higher net worth. But maybe by buying fewer of those hedonic products, they might not have as much life satisfaction. Maybe they do it, but they’re not happy about it, even if they’re happy in their relationship. But I understand it’s very difficult to study those kinds of things and you answered the questions that you’re able to.

Emily G (10:54): My intuition is actually the same as yours. I thought we were gonna find opposite. <laugh> So I though people that are buying these products associated with happiness and using separate accounts might actually be happier and even more satisfied in their relationship because they feel like they’re purchasing whatever they want. But it actually seems that overall, a greater input into our relationship satisfaction is just feeling like we’re a team, right? So these hedonic products can increase short-term happiness, but if we think more about long-term happiness and life satisfaction is very much a proxy for long-term happiness, it seems that we see the flip such that joint accounts lead to greater relationship satisfaction and potentially life satisfaction.

Emily R (11:38): Yeah. And I just wanted to note, I think you said for that particular study, this was married couples, newly married couples. So they had already made that decision. They’d come to that point of that legal commitment, right? And so we’re not necessarily talking. We don’t know if we would see the same results for a, a couple at a different stage in their relationship.

Emily G (11:55): Yes. The study that was done looked specifically at newlyweds.

To Pool or Not to Pool? How Life Events Influence Shared Finances

Emily R (11:59): Yes. And then I guess to take it back to, that was a study done relatively recently, presumably on newlyweds. Do we know overall statistics about how younger couples are choosing to pool or not pool?

Emily G (12:11): Yes. So younger couples are actually much more likely to keep their money separate and they decide to merge when there’s some sort of big life event that necessitates. And so when I say big life event, this could of course be getting married as, as was done in the study, but it could also be something like just deciding to move in together and thinking about how you’re going to pay for your joint rent in your new apartment or your new place together. And so when that happens, what we see is that these couples tend to engage in this partial pooling practice where they’ll open, for example, a joint account where they can put money for their rent, for their groceries, for any shared expenses that they have together.

Emily R (12:56): And you just said that younger couples are much more likely to keep their money separate. Are you saying that’s relative to older generations or absolutely they are keeping things separate, perhaps with some exceptions of these life events? And then if those life events occur, what’s kind of the balance between people who stay fully separate and who do partial pooling or full pooling?

Emily G (13:17): Yeah. So this is relative to older couples that tend to be more likely to be married. And so once you marry, this is when people start to just merge more of their finances over time. But we are starting to see some shifts because couples are putting marriage off later and later, and so people are coming into a marriage with more assets than they had before compared to couples that were getting married young where it kind of made sense just to pool everything together when you had less.

Emily R (13:47): And I wonder, is the arrival of children one of those big life events that pushes couples more towards pooling?

Emily G (13:54): Absolutely.

Commercial

Emily (13:57): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, budgeting, or designing your financial life, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer live workshops, asynchronous online courses, and cohort-based programs on these topics, and I’m now booking for the 2026-2027 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, medical school, postdoc office, or postdoc association? My workshops are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Advice for Couples With Significant Income Disparities

Emily R (15:26): Now I wanna think specifically about a situation that a lot of PhD trainees may be in, which is that they are in a relationship, but there is a significant income disparity. Maybe a grad student partnered with someone who has a full-time permanent job, same thing for postdocs. What does the research show or what advice would you have for a person, the lower earning person in that situation? Are there any best practices that you’ve uncovered?

Emily G (15:52): Yeah, so I can tell you first what I see in the data, and then I can talk a little bit about just some insights or some advice that I have from it. So with one of my PhD students, she’s specifically interested in heterosexual couples with an income disparity. And so one of the things that we’re looking at together is how do couples that have an income disparity choose to split shared expenses? And so as you can imagine, there are two common ways in which couples can split shared expenses. So they can either pay for something proportionally to income, which means that the higher earner would pay more because they make more, or they can split something equally, right? Split it right down the middle, fifty fifty split. And so one of the things that we find over and over again in our data is that the way in which couples choose to split shared expenses seems to be driven by the gender of the higher earner. And so what we find is that when the higher earner is the man, couples are much more likely to split proportionally the income. But when the higher earner is the woman, couples are much more likely to split equally. And so the question, of course, that we’re asking ourselves is, okay, why? Why do we see this over and over again? And it seems to come down to the idea of power and financial decision-making power. And so what seems to be happening is in relationships with income discrepancies, the higher earner sort of by default has more financial decision-making power, right? They are earning more of the money, and so they kind of feel like if there’s a shared expense, they should have more say because they’re bringing in more money to the relationship. And so what we see is that because men on average just tend to be more agentic, they really struggle with this idea of having their power be reduced. And so they’re trying to reclaim some of their decision-making power by offering to pay their fair share, which some would argue would be the fifty fifty split.

Emily G (18:06): But women, on the other hand, because women are much more communal, they don’t really mind as much if they have less decision-making power. And so they’re perfectly happy to just let the man pay for more and go with the proportional split if the man earns more. What does this mean for couples with income discrepancies? What, what advice would I give? I think what I would say is that just to be cognizant of the fact that if you are splitting a shared expense in which the higher earner does tend to have more weight, I think it’s important to realize that the shared expense is gonna be used by both of you. And so I think even if you are the lower earning PhD student, you should feel free to speak up and voice your preference, right? It’s your apartment too. It’s your car too. It’s your vacation too. And there’s no real reason why you shouldn’t have as much of a say in something that you are in fact contributing your own money to help, right?

Emily R (19:02): So I like that extension of your observation about this because you’re not really coming down on, “Oh, it’s better to do fifty fifty. It’s better to do proportional split.” You’re just saying, “These are the tendencies that people have. Let’s take a step back from that and understand the motivations.” And if you just use your voice as the lower earning person, you could be in either situation and you’re still trying to be heard equitably in your relationship. So that’s an amazing observation. Thank you.

Emily G (19:29): Yes. We don’t have, from the data, a clear finding of, “Oh, couples should split this way or they should split this way.” But what we do know is that people are upset if they feel like they don’t have a voice and they feel like they’re not being heard. And so this is a case where, I guess it’s different from what we found with the joint account data where it’s very clear pooling finances increases relationship satisfaction. Here, it’s just we see these descriptive differences between couples and we’re trying to wonder or ask ourselves why this is happening. And what we do know from decades of research at this point on power is that when people feel powerless, that’s a really aversive state. And so making sure that people feel power in their relationship is gonna be really important. And oftentimes we link power to money, and that doesn’t always necessarily have to be the way it’s done or handled in the relationship.

Emily R (20:23): And I guess I’ll also note for listeners wondering about this, the, the practice of pooling, like if you’re listening and saying, “Oh, I want greater relationship satisfaction, maybe I’ll bring up pooling with my partner.” The pooling can be fifty fifty. It can be proportional income. You can do it either way. That’s. Or somewhere in between. It’s not prescriptive in that way you can still pool in either one of those scenarios.

Emily G (20:43): Yes. And I think another thing that’s important for me to communicate is the fact that what does pooling do? It essentially increases transparency and it forces couples to get on the same page and have conversations about where they are with their finances. And this is something that you can do even without pooling, right? Pooling is just one way to facilitate that, but there’s a lot of apps and a lot of tools out there like Monarch, for example, or Honey Do is another app that’s specifically made for couples that can increase financial transparency and help you get on the same page. So if you’re someone that’s not fully comfortable with the idea of merging accounts or opening a joint bank account with your partner, you can still achieve higher financial transparency or financial intimacy just by being open about your financial status.

The Complexities of Academic Life: Major Income Changes and Relocation

Emily R (21:38): Yeah. Thank you for adding that. That’s another great observation. Um, okay. Let’s think about a further evolution of the scenario we just talked about, which is we have a couple with income disparity, one person is in PhD training, maybe one person’s in that full permanent job, and then things switch. The PhD comes out of training, they receive a massive income increase. Woo-hoo, everybody’s so excited about that. But then what changes in their relationship and the power dynamics that you were just talking about? Has this been studied at all? And again, are there best practices around this?

Emily G (22:10): Yes. To the best of my knowledge, this hasn’t been studied specifically in the literature, but I am happy to talk about what I think would happen and also just give some anecdotal observations. And what we know is that change is hard, and it’s also really difficult to prioritize two careers equally. And so I think what happens in a lot of couples is that people just naturally tend to prioritize the career of the person who makes more. And so if there is some sort of flip in the relationship, it’s gonna be quite difficult for the person who was once the breadwinner and no longer is to maybe take a back seat. And I think PhDs in particular, and especially PhDs that go into academia, have a really difficult time because not only might the breadwinner within the relationship flip, but oftentimes we don’t have a lot of say in where we have a job or where we have to move. And I think it’s really hard for the partner that has to suddenly pick up and relocate and move potentially to a location where they don’t wanna move, but it might be the only academic job that their partner got. And so this is really, really complicated relationship dynamics.

Emily G (23:28): And so I’ve seen this go both ways. I’ve seen examples where couples thrive and they have a partner that says, “You go out and you get the best academic job you can get and I’ll make it work.” I’ve also seen couples where they’ve fallen apart because the partner doesn’t wanna move where the spouse got a job. And so now they’re doing long distance because the other spouse just didn’t wanna make it work or couldn’t, or to some extent couldn’t make it work. Maybe it wasn’t their fault. And so one thing that I think is really important for PhDs in particular is just to be super open with your partner about your career trajectory, your career plans. If your partner’s not able to accommodate a move to anywhere in the country, I think targeted job searches are really important. One thing that drives me crazy in both jobs I’ve had in Ithaca at Cornell and in South Bend at the University of Notre Dame is you interview people and you get excited and you make them an offer and then they say, “Oh, my spouse can’t move here.” When it’s like, I feel like you should have had that conversation before you applied to the job about would it even be realistic for them to pick up and move here? And so I think sort of the general theme of all of this is just that conversations around your job and your career plans are also financial conversations. I don’t know if we always think of them that way, but salary and salary transparency in your career goals and your hopes for the future are all things that you should be talking about. And yeah, so I think just being open and honest about the fact that you might not have a say in where you move and it’s just a very different career and lifestyle, I think is something that is really important for your partner to be aware of.

Emily R (25:19): Yes, I totally agree. And I’m thinking now even about specifically because you mentioned an academic, a PhD who’s continuing on in academia, that may not result in being the higher earning partner. The person who was earning more before may still be the breadwinner in that relationship, and then you really have more power dynamics to deal with if it, we have to move for this job, but it’s not gonna even increase my salary as much as yours is. That is really tough. And obviously within academia, we- There’s a lot of ink spilled about the two-body problem and so forth. And so we have ways of handling that if it’s two academic partners, but not so much if it’s one person in academia and one person not, and certainly not if it’s two people outside of the academic system who are trying to navigate this. So I totally agree. Really?

Emily G (26:02): Yeah. The two-body problem is real. And there, once again, there’s no right answer, right? You can’t say, “Oh, you should clearly do this or you should clearly do that.” Each couple has to have the conversation and figure it out for themselves. And I think the conversation also needs to be ongoing, because I also know instances where maybe a spouse agreed to one thing, and then they move and they start their respective jobs, and then they realize that it’s just not working for them. And I think, once again, just being open and honest about these things is really important.

Emily R (26:31): Yeah. I’m so glad you brought up the particular difficulties of having a career in academia, or we might say overall, just a very specialized career where there might be very limited number of places that you could live in the US or around the world to do your particular unique niche thing that you do. Absolutely.

Emily G (26:48): And I’ve mentioned this a few times, but really excited to be on this podcast for PhDs because it always blows my mind to how people outside of academia don’t really realize, for example, that if you are denied tenure, you have to move. And just having gone through the tenure process recently and telling people like, “Oh, I hope I get it. I hope I get to stay.” And they’re like, “What do you mean?” <laugh> And yeah, these are things that I think are very idiosyncratic to our careers.

Emily R (27:16): And I know I was just mentioning geographical limitations, but academics are spread out, let’s say, across the US. You might land in a town that doesn’t have an industry that’s compatible with your partner’s career track. And thankfully, there is so much more opportunity for remote work now. My husband and I both work remotely and are very happy about that, but not every job is- lends itself to that kind of arrangement. Emily, this has been so insightful. Thank you so much for coming on sharing your research and what you’ve learned from the literature and the studies that you’ve done about couples and money and this income disparity. So fascinating.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily R (27:50): I want to wrap up with the final question that I ask of all my guests, which is what is your best financial advice for an early career PhD? And this can be something we’ve touched on in the interview already, or it can be something completely new.

Emily G (28:02): Okay, great. So I think my best advice is if I think back to my early career as a PhD, and we’re talking about sort of these, these income disparities and these changes in income, I just remember thinking basically overnight, you go from getting used to making a relatively small amount of money for five to six years, and then you wake up the next day and you’re doing much better, right? You get your first job out of the PhD and you’re making a lot more money. And I, I remember feeling like I could just buy whatever I wanted. Like I had so much money now, and it was so much more than, than I had been used to. What we know from the literature is that when income goes up, spending also tends to go up as well. And this is a finding that’s referred to as lifestyle creep.

Emily G (28:53): And so I think my best advice would be to think about maybe some ways to avoid lifestyle creep, and your spending doesn’t have to go up in everything. And so one of the things that I like to do is think about what types of things bring me the most joy, and then I increase my spending on those things. But then other things, I held my spending constant, and I still spend similarly to when I was a PhD student. And so if you think about, for example, other books that are out there, like Cassie Mogilner’s book on Happier Hour teaches us to think about what things help you find the most joy, or Ramit Sethi’s book on Money for Couples and finding your rich life, right? What is your rich life? And so I think that when you get these big boosts to your income, I guess my advice would be to increase spending on things that bring you the most joy, but it’s okay not to splurge on other things.

Emily R (29:54): Absolutely. The way that I phrase that when I teach on this topic, and it’ such an important one for being mindful in those career transition points is that, yeah, we should avoid lifestyle creep or lifestyle inflation, but you absolutely should indulge in intentional lifestyle increases in those areas that matter most to you, as you were saying. And as a follow-on, let’s be real careful about those fixed expenses, okay? Let’s be careful about the housing that we commit to, the car that we commit to, because those are a little harder to change once you’ve made that initial decision and you might have been riding high and not realizing, “Oh, there’s a lot of taxes I have to pay, and oh, there’s a lot of other increases.” So love that advice, very relevant for this audience. Thank you so much. Emily, again, this is a wonderful interview. Thank you very much for coming on.

Emily G (30:39): Thank you so much for having me. It was a real pleasure.

Outro

Emily (30:44): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? We have collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to view transcripts or videos of each episode? We link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

This PhD Candidate-Parent Draws Financial Support from Her State, Her Union, and More

September 14, 2026 by Jill Hoffman Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Madeline Hebert, a 5th-year PhD candidate at the University of Connecticut and married mother of a toddler and newborn. Madeline shares how her money mindset has changed over the last several years, from poring over every last expense in her budget to investing in frugal strategies and increasing her income through fellowships and paid projects. She also details the systems from which she has drawn financial support, chiefly through state childcare benefits and her grad student union. The total value of these benefits is so high that Madeline chose not to pursue a $100k one-year fellowship because it would have negatively impacted her family’s bottom line.

Links mentioned in the Episode

This PhD Candidate-Parent Draws Financial Support from Her State, Her Union, and More

Teaser

Madeline (00:00): I found myself applying for like every single award, grant, um, scholarship. And before I would let imposter syndrome affect it a lot more being like, oh, like I’m not qualified or I don’t fit that or whatnot. But instead now I’m like, I need money. I’m taking every single opportunity I can get.

Introduction

Emily (00:21): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (00:51): This is Season 25, Episode 2, and today my guest is Madeline Hebert, a 5th-year PhD candidate at the University of Connecticut and married mother of a toddler and newborn. Madeline shares how her money mindset has changed over the last several years, from poring over every last expense in her budget to investing in frugal strategies and increasing her income through fellowships and paid projects. She also details the systems from which she has drawn financial support, chiefly through state childcare benefits and her grad student union. The total value of these benefits is so high that Madeline chose not to pursue a $100k one-year fellowship because it would have negatively impacted her family’s bottom line.

Emily (01:41): Let’s talk fellowship taxes for a minute here. These action items are for you if you recently switched or will soon switch onto non-W-2 fellowship income as a grad student, postdoc, or postbac; you are a US citizen, resident, or resident for tax purposes; and you are not having income tax withheld from your stipend or salary. Action item #1: Fill out the Estimated Tax Worksheet on p. 12 of IRS Form 1040-ES. This worksheet will estimate how much income tax you will owe in 2026 and tell you whether you are required to make manual tax payments on a quarterly basis. The next quarterly estimated tax due date is September 15, 2026. Action item #2: Whether you are required to make estimated tax payments or pay a lump sum at time tax, open a separate, named savings account for your future tax payments. Calculate the fraction of each paycheck that will ultimately go toward tax and set up an automated recurring transfer from your checking account to your tax savings account to prepare for that bill. This is what I call a system of self-withholding, and I suggest putting it in place starting with your very first fellowship paycheck so that you don’t get into a financial bind when the payment deadline arrives. If you need some help with the Estimated Tax Worksheet or want to ask me a question, please consider joining my workshop, Quarterly Estimated Tax for Fellowship Recipients. It explains every line of the worksheet and answers the common questions that PhD trainees have about estimated tax. The workshop includes video content, a spreadsheet, and invitations to at least one live Q&A call each quarter this tax year. The last live Q&A call for this quarter is today, Monday, September 14, 2026. If you want to purchase this workshop as an individual, go to PFforPhDs.com/QEtax/. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s25e2/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Madeline Hebert.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

Emily (04:08): I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today a repeat podcast guest, Madeline Hebert. She is a rising fifth year PhD candidate at the University of Connecticut and was last on the podcast in season 16, episode one, talking about having her first child very early on in graduate school and how she budgeted for all of that and figured out childcare. And we’re gonna be revisiting some of those same topics, but in, you know, a few years further along in this episode because Madeline has now had her second child during graduate school, um, and has, you know, that’s really changed her thinking about, um, things related to money. So Madeline, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. Will you please introduce yourself a little bit further for the audience?

Madeline (04:50): Thanks. Yes. Um, my name is Madeline Hebert. I am a fifth year graduate student at the University of Connecticut, and I have two children now. One who is two and a half, will be three in August and the other one was born on, in February. So I’m really excited to be back here. I study LGBTQ youth, um, and interested in public policy, intervention prevention for them. And then my husband, he’s a telemetry worker. He’s also now a student himself and he has been working an hourly rate and now is about to go down to, um, about like per diem, what they call, is what they call it.

Emily (05:28): And what’s he studying?

Madeline (05:29): He is, um, he just got entered, uh, accepted into a dental hygienist program. It’s at the local community college and we’re really excited about that because yeah, he’s really excited to get to change career um, transitions basically.

Parenthood and Its Impact on Your Money Mindset

Emily (05:43): Awesome. Well, let’s get into it. Our last interview fell at a really like interesting stage because you, at the time of the art interview, you were pregnant, um, with the first baby. And obviously, you know, that, that stage is what it is and you’re a parent already, but now you’re a parent in a much different way <laugh> having two babies out in the world in childcare, you know, you have to balance everything with your, your work and all that. So just, you know, give us your thoughts now about how your view of money has changed, you know, in the past few years, um, with these life stages.

Madeline (06:15): I think that like at the beginning, I used to be super really anxious about money and I was doing like a l – I was following like a lot of the budgeting and itemization and looking back behind and, um, and that was really useful for the time. But now with like two children, it’s much more difficult and stressful, I think, to do like all the item line by line and to take the time and have the time to be budgeting like that. So I find that instead thinking about money in a very global sense, being like, okay, I know how much I’m generally going to be making this month and we try to stick to that expenditure within the month and we kind of more so like maybe once a week I’ll look at my app and be like, okay, like we are either above or below what I think that we should be for having spent for that month. But that has also reduced a lot of financial anxiety and has also helped a lot with being able to manage like, okay, are we able to spend what we need?

Madeline (07:10): Also thinking about money as like, okay, I have to buy things in a very cost effective way. So we signed up for a Costco membership, which at the upfront is a bit more expensive and we’re very fortunate to be able to cover that cost because in the end we’re ending up saving a lot on buying in bulk and buying shelf stable foods and buying, um, things like freezer, large amounts of meat that we can freeze and use throughout the month kind of thing. So we kind of now shop monthly. So that’s also kind of affected my, the way that I think about money. And then like literally just finding every single way to make money, um, from a kind, not from a side hustle perspective, because again, like when you have kids, your time becomes very precious and very limited I have found, but at the same time it’s much more intentional. And so instead it’s more kind of like, not even passive income, but making use of a high yield savings account and taking advantage of entry, um, entry modes for the fact that I travel at least twice a year for conferences, I invested in a travel, um, the, a travel credit card that is a little bit, again, pricey at the upfront, but then I essentially am being paid to have it because of how much I’m using it and the benefits that it’s giving me and the, um, travel credits that it’s given me. And so things like that, um, I’ve been taking advantage of. Um, I’m also been trying to find, I found myself applying for like every single award, grant, um, scholarship. And before I would let imposter syndrome affect it a lot more being like, oh, like I’m not qualified or I don’t fit that or whatnot. But instead now I’m like, I need money. <laugh> I’m taking every single opportunity I can get. I’m trying to, I find myself having to try to hop onto every single like project that I have the capacity for and I have to be much more intentional about which projects I sign up for because again, that time’s limited and I’ve had to turn down some opportunities in fact because they were not paid. I have to be like very upfront and being like, I’m sorry, but I’m looking for a paid summer, um, project to work on and to help with. But that’s also led to me reaching out to other faculty who I might not have reached out to before because I knew that they had funding and I tried to find ways that, in which my own research could fit into their project. So this way I could also be of hireable help in the, in other words.

Madeline (09:34): So that’s been kind of interesting because that relationship with money I’ve found has also affected my relationship with my research in trying to be like, okay, I need a project and a research interest that helps me also create a path forward in careers that are more popular in the higher paying industry. So moving towards a public policy research prevention intervention space has allowed me to be looking into more government type jobs and looking into public policy related jobs, public health jobs. So that’s something that was also kind of a, I am interested in it, but also because the way of my relationship with money now I’m moving towards that as well.

Emily (10:17): I think all of those shifts that you just mentioned are really positive and ones that probably other grad students, whether they’re parents or not, probably need to be moving in those directions. I mean, understanding that like your work and research has to have some market value, like yeah, of course it does, like especially moving out of graduate school or out of academia. I wanna take some of the things that you just mentioned piece by piece, um, because again, I do think these are all like really positive evolutions, um, maybe for you motivated by becoming a parent, but also again, something that other people can learn from whether they’re in that situation or not. And the first one you mentioned was about like sort of getting out of the weeds of, um, super detailed tracking or like daily basis kind of tracking and getting up into the, um, how can I have a longer term view of my money and of frugality so that you are, as you were kind of saying, like it’s okay if something costs more upfront if it’s able to help you spend less over time. And that is something that I think maybe can take some time for people to make that leap because they do need to get out of the like s- serious paycheck to paycheck cycle to be able to do something like purchase a Costco membership or, you know, pay the upfront annual fee for a travel credit card. But it is possible for a lot of people who to start taking that longer view. So I’m really, um, glad that you mentioned that. Do you think, because I have also made the shift dur – I also made the shift during graduate school. Do you think it was necessary to be in the weeds for a period of time before making that jump? Or do you think, mm, I could have just taken this like higher level view from the beginning and that would’ve been better?

Madeline (11:58): I think that was really beneficial. I’m not entirely sure if it was necessary per se, but I do think that for me it was really beneficial because it helped me get a good grip of like, okay, this is how much I can spend. I tend to think of very black and white thinking. So saying, okay, I have $20 to spend this week on snacks really makes me aware of like, okay, how much have I gone to Starbucks this week? But then it also gives me this freedom to say, oh, if I want Starbucks, I have like X amount of money still to set aside to spend on myself. Whereas now I’m like, okay, like I know that I want to go and spend money on myself, but now I’m a little bit more like, okay, like, well, where are we a little bit and want to check in with my husband about it? And then, but because I have a husband to also kind of like talk about finances with, it has made it to where we do have to talk about like, okay, like, do we want to set aside a little bit of money or make sure that we have spent roughly an allocation of particular amount of that monthly bu – higher budget? But because he works an hourly job, so some months he’s only worked like a full three weeks instead of four weeks or we travel for two weeks, like that is a constantly shifting number. So it helps us to not be like, oh, well, this week we don’t have this much or it reduces a lot of the anxiety around there by not having that, um, minutia or minute, um, examination of the numbers.

Emily (13:24): I think probably you’ve also most likely dialed in your larger necessary expenses, um, and you’ve become very familiar with them over the time that you’ve been in graduate school so that, um, you don’t have to pay as much attention to those really, really tiny expenses if the, if the large ones are dialed in appropriately. I know we’re gonna talk about childcare a little bit later on, but can you share with us how, like, your housing has changed over that period of time?

Changes In Fixed Expenses: Housing, Food, Internet, & Streaming Services

Madeline (13:51): It’s funny that you mentioned it because the housing changed after the childcare changed. So originally we were living in a one bedroom, um, apartment and it was about 1,400 starting off in every year it would increase about $50. So that was a pretty, like, manageable increase. And, um, that has now actually increased to an apartment that is about 1,800 now, now 1,900, just recently, 1,945 for our two bedroom apartment, two bathroom apartment, which, which has honestly been, like, much higher quality of life for us though. Um, but that changed. Our food has been still roughly around 300, some months 400 to 500, but we don’t go out very- I find that we swapped going out to, like, a nice restaurant for more Taco Bell and McDonald’s kind of restaurants, and maybe once a month we’ll actually go out to a real restaurant. Um, and so those kind of expenditures have changed. They, but it still feels like we’re going out to eat. It still feels like, oh, we’re not, like, cooking every single night. Um, but my husband makes a very good point that very often we do cook, probably more so than a lot of our peers that he finds. Um, and so, like, just about every night he cooks or we have a, like, leftovers. Um, and so that, um, has gone down. Trying to bundle, like, expenses for, like, streaming services usually. He’s got, like, for example, Disney through his phone bill. I realized that our internet service was doing, like, another deal. It had increased after, like, that two-year promotional contract, but then I found out that I’ve, every now and then I check. And so by doing that, I found out, “Oh, wait, they’re doing a new promotion that’s actually cheaper than what I’m currently paying. Let me get in on that, and now I pay less again for my internet.” So s- some small things like that. Those are our biggest expenses, that electricity, water. We don’t really spend much on, on other things. Those are kind of the big bucket spending things I find.

Emily (15:52): Yeah, it’s really good that you’re paying attention to those fixed expenses, like, you know, phone bill, internet bill, these kinds of things. Like you said, you just have to touch base, like, maybe once a quarter, you know, one, once every, you know, twice a year, something like that. And then you can find those opportunities. And it doesn’t have to be the daily checking in, right, like you sometimes would do with your variable expenses. Now, there was another, um, sort of big category you mentioned earlier in your answer, which is about, um, increasing your income has become much more of a priority for you, um, having the children. And again, I think this makes a lot of sense that the general grad student evolution, and of course, thinking forward to your next stage in your career. I really like that you mentioned that you used to feel some, um, imposter phenomenon and now you’re just like, “I have to get through it because I just need the money. I just have to apply anyway.” Um, can you expand on that a little bit more, like, maybe how you look for opportunities?

Finding Opportunities to Earn Extra Income During Grad School

Madeline (16:44): My department, they tend to do, like, a little weekly announcement being like, “So-and-so, congrats. They got some sort of award.” Um, it’s been making me, like, they, we also get these, like, daily digests that are super annoying, honestly, but they also offer, like, a rewards and fellowship, scholarship opportunities. And I, every single day now, I s – just scan it being like, “Hmm, is there anything that looks like it might be worth my while to go look into?” Um, if I hear that so-and-so got, like, an assistantship with a professor, I’m like, “Hey, um, can, I was wondering if you think that they might have a little bit, if they might be still looking for people or, um, is there, like, anything that might need assistance on?” Um, just, also just remembering, okay, like, every single time I’m reminded that there’s yearly of scholarship awards, I apply for every single one that I can. And I try not to get in my head by being like, “Oh, well, like, do I deserve to apply for, like, the financial need-based scholarship? Do I, um, is it bad that I’m asking for government assistance?” So, like, I know that my state offers, um, financial assistance for winter heating, even if your heating is included in your rent. It offers assistance for diapers, it offers assistance. My university has, like, a parent resource event once a semester, and I go attend that and I make sure I grab some diapers and some, and some wipes and stuff. So, like, not trying to get the shame and the guilt and all that encumbered, and instead being like, “Okay, like, these are things that I need to take advantage of so that this way, like, I don’t have to spend these expenditures later on.”

Emily (18:16): I’m so glad you brought that up, because it’s actually a theme I’ve been exploring in some other podcast interviews recently, and also in the writing that I’m doing about kind of getting past the mental blocks that might tell you this assistance being offered is not for me, or I do not deserve to avail myself of these resources. Um, and just, like, from an outside perspective, like, you haven’t even mentioned how much money you make or anything, but, like, you’re a PhD student, your husband’s now, like, working part-time and going to school. Like, you all are investing in yourselves, in your education, in your professional development right now, and that’s something that our society should support. And for goodness sakes, you got two children too. So, like, let’s support this family as you’re all growing and developing, and that will make you so much more successful and able to, you know, contribute so much to society, both of you, all four of you, um, in the future. And so, it just makes sense to me that, like, that people make these resources available and that you should take advantage of them, um, and as much as possible, get out of your feelings about it. Like you’ve said, that you’ve really been trying to, like, push past. So, like.

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Emily (19:25): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, budgeting, or designing your financial life, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer live workshops, asynchronous online courses, and cohort-based programs on these topics, and I’m now booking for the 2026-2027 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, medical school, postdoc office, or postdoc association? My workshops are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Connecticut’s Government Assistant Program: Care 4 Kids

Emily (20:54): Let’s move on to then talking about, like, what are the sort of helps and, and systems and resources that you have noticed around you, especially since becoming a parent, um, and just go through them, like, one by one, because other people may, you know, see similar things in their own surroundings.

Madeline (21:10): Perhaps the biggest number one support, um, system besides my family itself is probably, um, this, honestly, the state government assistance and that exists within Connecticut. So the Connecticut, um, offers a, what they call Care 4 Kids program, which is a state subsidy program for childcare that the, the kind of effect that it’s had, it has reduced a childcare that normally is, like, around at least 1400 up to $2,000 per kid down to, like, $200 for our family. Um, and so, like, you can hear, like, just how enormous of a difference and shift of financial, um, freedom that that allows, and financial flexibility that that kind of assistance allows. Um, so that has been just monumentally incredible for allowing us to be able to move into our two bedroom apartment, to be able to continue buying healthy foods for ourselves, to make sure that we’re able to sustain ourselves, not only in just not, to where we’re not just surviving, but we’re actually being able to still thrive to some degree. And so –

Emily (22:14): May I ask, um, because on the last interview that you gave, I, I believe you were talking about how you had chosen, like, a campus affiliated daycare. That I think maybe was sliding scale, if I’m remembering correctly. Um, did you not know about the state system at that point? Or, like, when did that s- When did you kinda, like, plug into that?

Madeline (22:31): That’s a good question, because I don’t remember if I didn’t know about the state assistance back then or not. I don’t think I did. I think that I learned about it a couple of months in, and that’s actually been a really tricky thing, because the state system requires you. They, they prioritize parents who are working, they prioritize parents who are working, and students. So, PhD student, um, parent, really great candidate. Um, but it also has income caps where you have to make, um, to get in, you have to make around, like, 65% of the state median income, and then once you’re in, you can make up to 85% of the state median income to remain in the program. And so, but they base it off of either what you make yearly or what you make monthly. And so what I make monthly, because I’m a student with a stipend amount monthly, it looks much higher, even though yearly I’m not being paid for three months. So in reality, I have to essentially save away a portion of my income for, to cover this summer month. So what I ended up doing is I applied it as an annual income, and I indicate that I’m being paid essentially annually because that would reduce how much I’m being shown to be m- making for the monthly expense, which allowed us to be able to enter into the program. But that’s really tricky because if you don’t realize that you can and need to do that as a graduate student, especially on this kind of contract system, then you look like you’re making too much and you don’t qualify. Literally, when it first happened, it looked like I was like, “You’re, like, $20 over. You don’t qualify.” And so for actually, like, up until probably in January, maybe even March of the first year, we were paying, like, $900 every single month. And that’s only because I divided what is a 10-month tuition rate, um, across a 12-month, um, span.

Emily (24:22): So at the time that you first applied, you had to be at 65% of the median income for the state or lower. Um, and it sounds like, you know, y- you figured out a way to present your income accurately, um, but so that it showed that. And then after that point, you would be permitted to increase your income. So when you’ve talked about, like, applying for more fellowships or, like, applying to, you know, have additional assistantships or, or what have you, that has not bumped you above that 85%, it sounds like.

Madeline (24:47): Correct. Correct.

Emily (24:48): So it’s a little bit of a game of, like, we wanna increase the income, but we know there’s a ceiling at some point.

Madeline (24:53): Yes. And that part of that was when we were like, “You know what? Now’s a great time for my husband to drop down from being full-time to part-time and so, and become a student, so this way our income cannot go above that threshold.” So that- He had already been planning on becoming a student, but the original idea was that he would go after my PhD, but then we were like, “Actually, it’s really beneficial for us to be able to, um, have you go now, so this way we don’t go above that threshold.” So it’s being cognizant of, like, okay, how much are we making now to fit into all these, like, little pieces? It’s like a puzzle game.

A $200 per Month Childcare Bill That Gets Reimbursed

Emily (25:28): I don’t know if your second child has already entered into, um, daycare, but when you have the two in, what’s the total cost gonna be for the household?

Madeline (25:36): So they do what’s called a family fee. And at first, I wasn’t sure about how that would work because the family fee is supposed to be like a percentage of your total income. And it turns out that no matter how many ch – well, at least for our case, having two children in it, it’s still basing upon the family fee itself. So one child now we pay for, and the other child is essentially free, actually. I don’t know what that’s going to look like because every single summer they change daycares because the current, the school affiliated daycare is only open until June, and I still got work in the summer, so they switch daycares and then back, they return back in the fall. And those daycares have different rates, so that’s a little bit complicated. But, um, essentially, we only pay $200, and we were paying $200, and now we still pay $200. So that’s been really incredible.

Emily (26:26): That is incredible. I, I think about, like, you know, when people talk about how, like, you know, the US is one of the only developed countries that doesn’t have, like, early childhood education and all of that. It’s like, wow, Connecticut is doing it at least for these, like, low income, like, residents like you all are. So, again, that’s really, really encouraging that that’s available to you. And, um, something that, you know, people who aspire to become parents during graduate school, if you know that beforehand, you can really look carefully at, you know, the individual universities and the states that they’re in to see what kind of support is gonna be available to you from those different, like, levels. Okay, so you said the main big time support is this childcare program through the state, that’s amazing, but what else has helped you financially?

Madeline (27:08): My union’s been really great as well because they offer also a childcare reimbursement program, or not program, but they have a childcare reimbursement fund. And so, they actually calculate a per kid rate, and because our, um, childcare costs are so low now, we essentially get reimbursed fully for the childcare costs from that funding as well. So, that’s another little bump up that we get, um, from the union every semester.

Emily (27:35): Okay. My mind is, like, blown right now. Like, <laugh> like, okay, childcare, number one, like, I think we talked last time, like, there are several big costs going into, you know, having a child. Childcare, top of the list, leaves also up there, insurance also up there, medical bills, of course, feeding and, and diapering and so forth. But, like, the childcare is, like, the main. Once you get through the whole birth and, and, you know, newborn phase, like, the childcare is the main, main, main big expense. And so, ugh, I’m just so pleased that those resources were available for you, um, because, yeah, you, you wouldn’t have to, you know, take such a huge financial hit for this decision to become a parent during graduate school, so that’s amazing.

Madeline (28:15): The fact of the way that the childcare subsidy program works, the way that my union works is actually a reason that I declined, like, the. Well, I almost had the opportunity. I was, um, in the process of getting interviewed for a job that would pay, like, 100K, honestly, but it had no health insurance, no contracts for any sort of assistance like that. And because it paid so much on paper, I would essentially make myself in, um, ineligible for remaining in the subsidy program. And when I did the math, I came out making less per month, essentially, because of all the additional costs compared to just staying as essentially the idea of the poor graduate student, right? And so that was kind of ironic to me to see, like, the- just the. We don’t talk about it as much, I think, the financial relief that, like, just having certain systems in place, because it doesn’t come on paper that I’m making a lot, but I essentially am receiving the benefit of a much more higher cost than, than what I would be making if I were making much more money.

Madeline (29:21): Especially, especially being pregnant and then expecting to deliver that baby and such. Um, I though about that too. I was like, “What’s the cost of paying marketplace health insurance compared to what my union subsidizes through our employment and everything and what that covers too, because we don’t, we didn’t pay, we don’t pay anything for hospitalizations or anything that comes from hospitalization. Um, and I know that people can pay, like, a couple thousand dollars for having a baby, just like most basic way of having a baby. Um, and we’re really fortunate because our baby ended up in the PICU center right after birth, and it was such a relief to know that we wouldn’t have to really worry about being hit with a extremely high medical bill after that.

Emily (30:05): Oh my goodness. Yes.

Madeline (30:07): Yeah, I, I think that people don’t realize like, oh, like looking at the benefits that a place offers you is, is almost just as important as looking, well, probably just as important as looking at the actual numbers that the place is offering you. That’s what I’ve learned. <laugh>

Emily (30:21): And when you were looking at that job offer, the 100K job offer, would that be like you would’ve left your PhD program and that would’ve been your full-time thing?

Madeline (30:29): Yes. I would’ve taken. I was planning on, um, considering an academic leave of absence because it’s a one-year fellowship to work as like a state governor’s, um, fellow. So I didn’t have the job offer officially, but it was, um, I was in the second round of interviews and then I found out I was pregnant and then I was like, “Oh dear, I need to figure out this before I make serious adjustments.” Um, and part of that was because with all the budget cuts and everything, my department and a lot of departments across, um, the university have been limiting the graduate assistantship hours from a full-time to a 75%. So that was something that I was trying to navigate. And that goes back to that value of money, prioritizing, making sure that my family is cared for and making sure that we’re making enough money versus being like, okay, like not necessarily being like, oh, is this necessarily the best trying to get out of my degree as fast as I can or trying to go on every single project I can. I have to think a little bit differently than I think than I would’ve if I weren’t in this position as a grad student.

Emily (31:26): Mm-hmm. And is that because of basically your limited work hours, like because of the amount of childcare/how much time of course you want to spend with your children? Um, is that the limiting factor is at the time?

Madeline (31:37): I don’t find it’s the time actually. It’s, it really is just making like at 20% we’re able to afford life. It really, and then at 75% we would be going into debt more. And so it’s, it was a waiting game of figuring out like, would I be able to secure a 20-hour assistantship? Would my husband, what is my husband going to be paid at? How many hours is he going to get? How many hours do I need? Just all of the, those small, that’s where my new money calculation into the weeds has gotten into, is to looking at like those kind of things being like, what do we need to be able to afford life at not even like high quality, I would say, but just like being able to be like, okay, we don’t have to fear like going into debt really, um, for just like daily living. And so that was what I was really considering. I was like, oh, like 100K looks really good to be able to know like, oh, I, I’m pretty sure we can, we can survive off of that kind of thing. Um, and how is that gonna look with my husband going to school and having to drop hours potentially because of schooling and stuff? Um, ironically, I find myself to be even more focused and more, working more because of daycare. I’m like, oh, I only have nine to five. I gotta get some work done in this hour. Whereas before I was like, it’s three o’clock. I wanna go nap. I can work later in the evening. And then, and not actually work probably.

Emily (33:02): Yeah. I definitely saw that in graduate school with like the postdocs in my lab who were parents, like who kept very rigid hours but were very efficient when they were there. Any other sort of, um, sources of support that you’ve relied on?

Creating a Village During Grad School

Madeline (33:15): Yes. Um, a lot in the parenting community I find you talk about like creating a village. And so I have found the village through having, finding friends through my daycare, finding friends through literally just seeing people at like the farmer’s market with a kid and being like, “Hey, you have a baby. I have a baby. Let’s be friends.” Um, just finding different ways of support. And so that’s been emotionally, that’s been sometimes even financially, not necessarily that they’re paying us, but for example, when our baby was in the hospital, our friends picked up our oldest. Our friends helped us by, we do family dinner nights now. And so we share in the cost of like eating together, sometimes getting groceries. We go to Costco together. So like sharing in purchases like that sometimes financially has been really beneficial.

Emily (34:01): I think the intangible support though, like, not intangible, the, the tangible support that doesn’t have a dollar sign associated with it, um, is really, really important. And I know you’re long distance from your family and your husband’s family, right? Um, and similarly, when I had my children, we were long distance from all of our family members. And I also created a village with other parents in a similar situation. Uh, there were a lot around. Um, and so actually this has come up in recent interviews as well of like, in that case, my interviewees were talking about how it’s so beneficial to have roommates because you have a built-in support system that’s different than having just friends who you don’t live with. Like yeah, that person’s gonna give you a ride to the airport or like you can share food or what have you. And so you’ve created a similar thing among like the community of parents around you. Makes total sense. And it does, it does boil down to your bottom line eventually because maybe you get those favors, you know, that you would’ve had to pay a babysitter to do, um, otherwise. Or like you’re saying, the time that you would spend like cooking, maybe you only have to do that, you know, half as much as you used to because you’re able to share with your community. Um, it has both a positive like emotional effect as well as ultimately a financial effect.

Madeline (35:11): Yes, it definitely. The babysitting part’s big time because we’ve babysit for each other now and I’m like, that saves like easily 100, $200 because babysitting is not cheap.

Emily (35:21): My, uh, parent, community of parents near me now, uh, our kids are a little bit older, but we’re always like, “It’s easier when there’s other kids over because they just entertain each other and we can, you know, go cook or whatever needs to happen.”

Madeline (35:33): That’s exactly our thinking behind those family nights.

Emily (35:36): Yeah. So we’ve gone through, um, the, the state system and the childcare, the union, um, your, the village you’ve created. Any other sources of support that you’ve leaned on?

Additional Supports: Home Visitors and a Buy Nothing Group

Madeline (35:47): The other systems I can think of would be like the, um, home visitors, uh, which is part of the state systems that exist. And then also our Buy Nothing group, ironically, even though, like, it’s not the same as any other system that I have, to be honest. It’s been very interesting in that I can just say like, “Hey, like, we are looking for some help with, for maternity photos. We would love to have some, but we can’t afford them. Would someone be willing to come take our photos?” Just something like that, having neighbors who we can say, “Hey, um, can you help us move into our new apartment?” Um, they’ve been really, really helpful just to be like, “Hey, I need somebody who can drive my husband because my kids are all asleep. Can you take him to the doctors for us?” So those are other kind of little systems just like that we’ve created that’s kind of part of that village, but it’s not quite the same relationship as like a friendship, I would argue.

Emily (36:38): Mm-hmm. That’s interesting that your buy nothing community extends to like favors. I, I haven’t noticed that in mine. It’s more just like things, like take these things, have these things, you know, um, which I certainly use now. And honestly, for children who are growing very quickly, it’s very, very useful to have a pipeline of, you know, hand-me-downs coming your way and a place to get, you know, cheaper free equipment or car seats or just anything in that, um, line. So yeah, I can totally see how buy nothing would, um, help in that way.

Madeline (37:07): It was a, it was actually the suggestion of our home visitor. She’s like, “Why don’t you just ask that group that you always go to because it can’t hurt to ask and stuff.” And so we, that’s another way that I supplement like that itch for shopping. Like there’s like that you wanna doom spend or you feel stressed and you want some retail therapy and you’re like, “I don’t really have money to do that kind of stuff.” So instead I just go on my buy nothing group and I’m like, “Hmm, what, what’s popping up there?” And you get that thrill of dopamine being like, “Oh, I got selected,” or, “Oh, I got to it first and stuff.” So that’s kind of another psychological way of like kind of handling the stress of like not having a whole lot of disposable income I find. Um, it’s just kind of shopping on Facebook like that.

Emily (37:46): I love that idea. And again, it applies to non-parents as well. If like the thrill of the shopping is what you’re looking for, then put that extra layer of challenge of it’s gotta be free. <laugh>

Madeline (37:57): Yeah, 100%.

Emily (37:59): Well, I’m so thankful for all the insights that you’ve shared in this interview. I mean, especially about, you know, looking at that fellowship offer, or not offer, but like the interview process you were going through for that fellowship and realizing, oh wow, that number is high, but the benefit, the lack of benefits is completely offset and like what the situation you’re currently in is actually pretty good, especially that you wouldn’t be delayed another year for finishing your PhD and, and getting out into the, you know, permanent workforce and all that. So there’s so many insights that you’ve shared. Thank you so much, Madeline.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (38:28): Um, I will end our interview by asking you the question that I ask all of my guests, which is what is your best financial advice for another early career PhD? And it could be something that we touched on already in the interview or it could be something completely new.

Madeline (38:41): Best thing that I have to say for an early career PhD student, um, would be just to really consider like what do you need and not be afraid to try to go for it. So if that means that you need financial assistance, try to get out of your head about that. If you need, um, if you need help with childcare, looking to see like what are creative ways to work through that. Be willing to ask friends, be willing to ask and find a neighbor that you feel you can trust, be willing to look into what government state assistances there are. And also just recognize like the power of systematic effects, like making sure like, oh, do, is there good health insurance available? Is there, um, are there other good benefits available? Not just looking at that bottom number, um, that bottom line.

Emily (39:28): Of course. Thank you so much for illustrating that for us during the interview today.

Madeline (39:32): Thank you. I’m so happy to have gotten to talk with you for this. So thank you for having me back.

Emily (39:37): Absolutely.

Outro

Emily (39:40): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? We have collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to view transcripts or videos of each episode? We link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

This Graduate Student Keeps a Zero-Based Budget in a High Cost-of-Living Area

August 31, 2026 by Jill Hoffman Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily interviews Quinn Nguyen, a 4th-year PhD student in chemistry at UC Irvine. Quinn has been highly intentional with her finances during graduate school. She maintains a zero-based budget, uses targeted savings accounts for her cat and annual trips to Vietnam, keeps emergency savings, and pays herself first into a Roth IRA. She also lives in subsidized graduate student housing and drives an electric bike in addition to a car. Quinn and Emily discuss the advantages of these practices, specifically the Roth IRA, and how Quinn has developed confidence that she can make her finances work no matter what life throws at her post-graduate school.

Links mentioned in the Episode

PFforPhDs Quarterly Estimated Tax for Fellowship Recipients (Individual Purchase)
PFforPhDs Quarterly Estimated Tax for Fellowship Recipients (University Sponsored)
Host a PF for PhDs Seminar at Your Institution
Emily’s E-mail Address
PF for PhDs Subscribe to Mailing List
PF for PhDs Podcast Hub

Teaser

Quinn (00:00): Because I’m a computational student, a computational chemist student, chemistry student, I do simulation all the time. So to motivate it myself, I actually plug in the number, um, let’s say pretend that I contribute $200 a month, uh, to my Roth account. I want to see how much I have when I turn 60. When I see the number, I was like, I was so motivated.

Introduction

Emily (00:25): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily (00:53): This is Season 25, Episode 1, and today my guest is Quinn Nguyen, a 4th-year PhD student in chemistry at UC Irvine. Quinn has been highly intentional with her finances during graduate school. She maintains a zero-based budget, uses targeted savings accounts for her cat and annual trips to Vietnam, keeps emergency savings, and pays herself first into a Roth IRA. She also lives in subsidized graduate student housing and drives an electric bike in addition to a car. Quinn and I discuss the advantages of these practices, specifically the Roth IRA, and how she has developed confidence that she can make her finances work no matter what life throws at her post-graduate school.

Emily (01:36): Let’s talk fellowship taxes for a minute here. These action items are for you if you recently switched or will soon switch onto non-W-2 fellowship income as a grad student, postdoc, or postbac; you are a US citizen, permanent resident, or resident for tax purposes; and you are not having income tax withheld from your stipend or salary. Action item #1: Fill out the Estimated Tax Worksheet on p. 12 of IRS Form 1040-ES. This worksheet will estimate how much income tax you will owe in 2026 and tell you whether you are required to make manual tax payments on a quarterly basis. The next quarterly estimated tax due date is September 15, 2026. Action item #2: Whether you are required to make estimated tax payments or pay a lump sum at time tax, open a separate, named savings account for your future tax payments. Calculate the fraction of each paycheck that will ultimately go toward tax and set up an automated recurring transfer from your checking account to your tax savings account to prepare for that bill. This is what I call a system of self-withholding, and I suggest putting it in place starting with your very first fellowship paycheck so that you don’t get into a financial bind when the payment deadline arrives.

Emily (03:01): If you need some help with the Estimated Tax Worksheet or want to ask me a question, please consider joining my workshop, Quarterly Estimated Tax for Fellowship Recipients. It explains every line of the worksheet and answers the common questions that PhD trainees have about estimated tax. The workshop includes video content, a spreadsheet, and invitations to at least one live Q&A call each quarter this tax year. The next live Q&A call is on Tuesday, September 8, 2026. If you want to purchase this workshop as an individual, go to PFforPhDs.com/QEtax/. If you’d like to request sponsorship of this workshop for you and your peers from your department, graduate school, postdoc office, etc., send the potential host to PFforPhDs.com/sponsorQEtax/. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s25e1/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Quinn Nguyen.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

Emily (04:13): I am delighted to have joining me on the podcast today, Quinn Nguyen, who is a fourth year PhD student in chemistry at UC Irvine, and we are going to talk about how she has made her finances work during graduate school and what it takes to do that and what kind of financial goals she’s been able to work towards. So Quinn, thank you so much for volunteering to come on the podcast. Would you please introduce yourself a little bit further?

Quinn (04:35): My name is Quinn Nguyen. I’m from, originally from Vietnam. I went to the United States, um, nine years ago for college. Uh, went to college in, um, Ohio, uh, for four years and then I work a year and then I moved to California, Southern California to start my graduate school. Um, so for, throughout college, uh, I have my scholarship, my parents and my part-time job that cover pretty much all my expenses, uh, tuition. So I graduated without any student loan. Um, I worked for a year, saved up a little bit, and that helped me with the cross country moved. Um, I started graduate school with about $3,000. That’s, that’s all my saving and, um, that’s how I started graduate school. So no debt, $3,000.

Emily (05:20): Yeah. Amazing, like, really solid, I would say for, you know, it, it could have been a lot worse and having even just that little bit of savings I’m sure helped so much at the beginning. Um, may I ask, are you still considered an international student or have you changed your status?

Quinn (05:34): Yes, so I’m still on my student visa, so I’m still considered international student. Um, yes.

A $35,000 Stipend at UC Irvine: How Far Does It Go?

Emily (05:39): Okay. Wonderful. Big question right off the bat, which is how have you made your finances work during graduate school? And so we need to start by talking about what is your income, what’s your stipend?

Quinn (05:50): Um, so I started graduate school with about $35,000 in stipend. Um, that has changed a little bit because we have the, uh, strike and we have, um, the union negotiate our stipend, but has been roughly amount to the same. And also the st- stipend also increased a little bit every year due to the increa – the increase in experience, but yeah, roughly 35,000. Um, so after tax every month I get about, uh, 2,600 to about 3,000. Um, my first year was about 2,600.

Emily (06:24): And do you have any other sources of income aside from the stipend?

Quinn (06:29): No, I don’t have any other source of income. That’s, that’s all the income I have.

Emily (06:33): Okay, wonderful. So let’s move to talking about expenses then. Um, just give us kind of a broad overview, like what are some of your expenses and then in, in this vein of how have you made it work, um, yeah, how does it fit in with your expenses overall, your budget overall?

Quinn (06:51): Um, so I have, uh, fixed expense like housing. Um, I’m very fortunate because UCI have graduate housing, um, and that cover, my rent cover every utility, so the rent is about 1,000. So after rent, I have about 1,600, um, dollars to work with every month.

Emily (07:09): Actually, let me ask about that first of all, because I, we have had previous, um, interviewees from UC Irvine who have mentioned subsidized graduate student housing. So would you consider this to be subsidized?

Quinn (07:19): Yes, this is a subsidized graduate housing. Um, it’s so much better than the market rate housing.

Emily (07:25): And do you have, like, what’s the housing setup? Do you have, like, a flatmate? Like, how many people live in a unit?

Quinn (07:32): Um, so I pay thou – one, 1,000, and I live in a two bedroom, one bath apartment. Um, there are cheaper options, but when you, uh, when I go, when I went to the school and started out, uh, I did not get to choose and they placed us into different communities and this is the only choice that I have. Um, so yeah, I have one other roommate. Uh, I have a cat living with me, so that also a part of the expense as well, uh, with the, the vet bill and the vet basic. So yeah, uh, so for 1600, I, uh, pay for my, I pay a I pay for my grocery, uh, eating out, friend, um, gas, which is a big part here in Southern California. Um, I also, um, contribute a little bit to my saving account, uh, my Roth IRA. Um, I want to go back to Vietnam once a year, so I also have a sinking fund set up for international travel and domestic travel. Um, yeah.

Emily (08:35): Okay. Let me ask about a couple of those items. So you mentioned gas, so tell me about your car and how you use it. Like, do you use it for daily commutes or what?

Quinn (08:44): Um, so I have a car, but I, because I live in graduate housing, um, I’m just about a mile or two mile away from my office. So I, um, use, I invested in an electric bike that I bike to school every day. My car is just used for the, in the weekend when I want to go to grocery or when I want to go out with friend.

Emily (09:03): How do you charge your bike?

Quinn (09:07): Um, so I charge my bike in my apartment, uh, or sometime when I drive to my office, I can charge it there in my office.

Emily (09:14): And it sounds like, you said your utilities were a part of your rental cost, right? So like no marginal cost to charging it it sounds like.

Quinn (09:22): No. Yeah.

Emily (09:23): Amazing. A good deal. <laugh>

Quinn (09:25): Yes, it’s, it’s a very good deal here and at least in Irvine. Um, I get to have my own bedroom. Uh, a bedroom here in Irvine can cost about 1500. Um, so having a bedroom for just a thousand is such a steal.

Emily (09:38): And has that housing cost gone up yearly? Is it fixed to a certain percentage that it can go up? How do they calculate it?

Quinn (09:45): Um, I think it’s, it has been increasing, uh, every year since I first lived here. So I have been in the same apartment since I first came, so that was four years ago. Every year’s increase by about 5%.

Emily (09:59): Okay. Not insignificant, but glad to hear it’s not more than that. <laugh>

Quinn (10:04): Yes. Yeah.

Sinking Funds and Roth IRA Contributions

Emily (10:05): Okay. You also mentioned traveling home at least, or once per year, and then also some other travel. Do you have any. I mean, I know you mentioned using a sinking fund. So for the listeners, sinking funds, targeted savings accounts, we’ve talked about this a few times in the past. Basically, you save a small amount of money every single month for each of those types of expenses that you would, uh, use a sinking fund or a targeted savings account for. So specifically on the travel front, um, do you have any, like, strategies around travel to help reduce the cost?

Quinn (10:34): Um, so I, um, beside the, beside the sinking fund, uh, that I send, like, I send at least about 100 a month, uh, into a sinking fund, I, because I know roughly the, the cost of a ticket back, back home and back. Um, I usually book the ticket as soon as I can, uh, just to save on the, the price of the ticket. Um, I started using a credit card with some points, so that help a little bit with that. But yeah, usually a sinking fund is very helpful for me. Uh, I, the tickets usually cost less than the, the amount that I saved up, but I also have some extra money that can buy gift for people at home or prepay for the trip.

Emily (11:15): That sounds great. You mentioned that you, um, contribute to your Roth IRA. I don’t know if you’re also saving up cash, um, or, or have been in the past, but, like, how much would you say that you save? Is it a consistent monthly amount? Does, does it fluctuate?

Quinn (11:29): Um, so I, whenever I get my stipend, I set up an autonomous system that basically, um, automatically transfer my money from my checking account to my Roth IRA account, and it’s also buy the index fund every month. So roughly every month I send, uh, 250 to my Roth IRA account, uh, that I came to that number after, um, doing the math, taking out, uh, subtracting my rent, all the necessary expense, and so that was, uh, 250 what I, uh, I feel comfortable contributing to a Roth IRA account.

Emily (12:03): That’s great. And that’s almost 10% of your net income, so that’s a very significant amount for graduate students. So great job. Um, do you still have $3,000 in cash or, like, how much with your sinking funds? I don’t know if you also have a separate emergency fund. Have you built that up over the years as well?

Quinn (12:20): Yes. So, um, I started contributing to the Roth I – to Roth IRA, um, about a year into my graduate school. Uh, before that, I only contribute to a, uh, I only have an emergency fund that I send about 400 into that emergency fund. Uh, after the first year, I found out about Roth IRA, and I decided to split that by half, so I send about 250 to my Roth IRA and 200 into my emergency saving fund.

Using Zero-Based Budgeting as a Grad Student

Emily (12:48): Is there anything else you’d like to share about how you make your finances work in graduate school? Actually, we haven’t talked yet about your maybe financial, um, habits in terms of, like, do you budget? I mean, you already mentioned the strategy of pay yourself first, you know, for the Roth IRA, that’s amazing. The sinking funds, those are strategies. Do you use any other kinds of strategies for, like, your variable expenses?

Quinn (13:09): I use a budgeting method called an zero dollar base method. Um, I, I use an app, uh, it’s very easy to use called Every Dollar. So, uh, after I get my paycheck, I send all the money to the saving account, I pay my rent. I only have about $700 to $800 in my various expense. Uh, so I put that into different bucket, um, grocery, uh, eating out, gas, um, yeah. And, um, the rest is, I owe in the sinking fund, my saving and my rent.

Emily (13:44): Sounds perfect. How, how often are you checking in with the app? Like, how often are you using that tool to help you make spending decisions?

Quinn (13:52): Um, yeah, so because with a zero-based, um, budgeting method, you kind of have a purpose for every dollar you spend. Um, so let’s say I usually put about 200 into grocery and 200 into eating out with friends. Um, so every time I go to grocery store, I basically pull out the app, put in what I spend, and then it automatically subtract that amount. Um, whenever I, you know, need, want to buy something, I open the app to see, oh, how much money I have. Uh, and, and by the end of. I try to spend all the money by the end of the month because, um, because that’s, I want to have every dollar I have a purpose. So, uh, that’s really helpful because I’m naturally a very frugal person. Um, I just try to save, save, save all the time, but now having an app and see that, oh, I actually have this much money just to go out and eat with friend, I try to enjoy as much, um, get as much joy out of those my those dollars as possible.

Emily (14:49): I love that philosophy of budgeting, and it’s actually one that I experienced as well. So I’m actually not a natural saver. I’m not naturally frugal. Um, I grew up more of like a spender, but when I started receiving a stipend, it was like, “Whoa.” <laugh> Like I gotta shut everything down, you know? So I, I really went hard the other way into any spending that I did really made me feel like anxious and like, was I like messing something up by like, you know, going out to eat or whatever it was. And so I really found budgeting to be helpful in the way that you just mentioned of like, “Oh no, I know I have confidence that I’m allowed, I’m allowing myself to spend up to this amount of money on this purpose every single month, and I know that it all balances out and like it’s gonna be okay.” So it really was giving myself like permission to spend that helped me feel much less anxious about each one of those decisions because when you don’t have a budget and you have a, you know, a tight income to work with, then if you’re just flying by the seat of your pants, like I don’t even know how you make those decisions of like yes to this, no to that. So the budget is really helpful in that way. It can both help you like know when you have to reign it in and it can also help you, like you’re talking about, know that you’re, um, permitting yourself to spend those dollars in a joyful manner that you know is gonna be really meaningful to you. Um, and it gives you like a goal to like spend like up to this amount on eating out, as you mentioned, or whatever else you’ve budgeted for. Well, I, I love that you shared that. Um, one question though, because like with the every dollar method, with the zero-based budgeting method, every dollar is accounted for, so what do you do when you have an unexpected expense come up or when you just really do come in under budget, you didn’t manage to spend everything in a category, like how do you, um, balance the books?

Quinn (16:31): So, um, that’s when, um, the sinking fund came in because let’s, uh, I have various type sinking fund, um, and for, so I have the saving account that kind of is called piggy, smarty pigs kind you have, it’s like you have different piggy bank for every purpose. So for, um, because I have a cat, I try to put in a few, about $20 a month, uh, contribute to that sinking fund so that if my cat needs to go to the vet, I have some money that I can use, uh, travel, that of, you know, when you buy a international travel ticket that basically wipe out all my stipend for the month. So that’s really helpful. Um, and if I, you know, if I use up all the sinking fund, I, you know, and there’s no room for my budget, uh, then I use my emergency saving fund that I have, um, a few thousand dollar in. So yeah, that’s how I account for those, um, emergency situation. But luckily I never had that situation, never experienced that situation.

Emily (17:35): It’s there as backup though if you need it. Um, that’s great because it sounds like then you’ve anticipated all the. I mean, I, I’m saying unexpected expenses, you’ve expected them. You’ve racked your brain, you know, though about your pet, thought about all the things that are like the likely unexpected or emergency type expenses that would come your way and you’ve just decided to save and advance them. It’s an absolute textbook application of targeted savings accounts, so I’m really delighted to hear about that. Um, anything else you wanna add around how have you made finances work as a graduate student?

Quinn (18:09): Yeah, so, um, I think of m- my finance as like three layers. So I have my budget that I deal with every day, um, and then I have my sinking fund, uh, that once in a while I have to pull the money out from that sinking fund. I also have the saving layer. So the saving, if I need money right now, like very emergent, I pull out from the emergency fund, and then I have the Roth IRA. Um, a lot of people don’t know that you can actually use the Roth IRAs as kind of an emergency fund as well because you can withdraw the, the Roth IRA, the contribution, uh, tax-free and penalty-free, um, your contribution only, tax-free and penalty-free. So that’s another layer of, um, emergency fund that I could, uh, use as well. So yeah, that’s, uh, I contrib, I approach my finances with multiple layers.

Emily (18:59): Very smart. And I, I can exactly see how it would play out that way.

Commercial

Emily (19:05): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, budgeting, or designing your financial life, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer live workshops, asynchronous online courses, and cohort-based programs on these topics, and I’m now booking for the 2026-2027 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, medical school, postdoc office, or postdoc association? My workshops are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Discovering Roth IRAs as a First-Year Grad Student: The Potential for Life-Changing Money

Emily (20:33): Let’s talk a little bit more about the Roth IRA, actually. So you shared with us so far that about a year into graduate school, you found out about Roth IRAs and decided to start using one, and also some of the advantages, like you said, um, a Roth IRA can technically be used as, let’s say, the emergency fund behind the emergency fund, right? I wouldn’t say it should be the first layer, but as a backup, backup, backup, yes, you can withdraw the contributions without, um, too much fuss. Uh, so yeah, maybe start with, like, how you found out about Roth IRAs and then why you decided, um, that it was the right tool for you.

Quinn (21:08): Yeah. So, um, I found out about Roth IRA in my first year of graduate school. Um, I, you know, first time in my life, I have a salary, uh, have my own money, so I, I deci – I wanted to something, do something with it. Um, so I, you know, ma- many of my friends, um, have a brokerage account and they pick some stock, they sell when they buy. Um, uh, but then I found, I found out that it takes, it took so much, so much money, uh, so much time, um, and sometime you don’t, and you don’t, you cannot, it’s hard to beat the market, um, picking stock. Um, and so I, I look into various account and then look at various strat – various strategy, um, and I found out about Roth IRA. Uh, if Roth IRA is a good, uh, retirement account to have in graduate school, because for many STEM graduate student, um, graduates pro – who have much higher earning potential after they graduate, um, graduate school may be the only, uh, direct, the only years in their life that they are eligible for, uh, Roth IRA contributions, you know, after that, they can still contribute to Roth IRA, but with many more, uh, convolutions. Um, so graduate school is a very good time to start contributing to Roth IRA. Uh, another reason is also because when you’re in your 20s, you have a lot of years ahead of you, and all the, uh, gain that you have, that, that you have from your contribution in your 20 have much longer time to accumulate, uh, and then when you’re retired, you can withdraw all that tax-free and that such, sound like such a sweet deal to me. Um, I’m, uh, because I’m a computational student, a computational chemist student, chemistry student, I do simulation all the time. So to motivate it myself, I actually plug in the number, um, let’s say pretend that I contribute $200 a month, uh, to my Roth I account. I want to see how much I have when I turn 60. When I see the number, I was like, I was so motivated. Um, yeah. So I, I, if you pretend that you contribute $200 a month, every month in your graduate school, uh, you do that for five years, after graduate school, you end up with about 15,000, and then you wait until 30 years after that, you end up with more than 200,000. It’s, yeah, it’s not life-changing money, uh, but it’s still a big amount. Maybe by the time I turn 60, I have grandchild, child and grandchildren that could contribute to the, their, um, college educations. That’s how I think about it. That how I decided that, um, I want to open a Roth IRA account.

Emily (23:45): I have to disagree with you. I think it is life-changing money. Um, and I, I think you’ll agree with me, like, just the fact of getting started with saving and investing, getting compound interest working for you as, as you said, it’s exponential growth. Like once you, if you’re a math type-minded person, once you see the power of exponential growth in one area and then you realize that your money can do that too, oh my goodness. Um, even if the absolute dollar amounts are not that high, let’s say the year, you know, when you finish graduate school or five years out of graduate school, I do think having those habits in place and the confidence that it gives you, um, that you have some amount of money that you could access if you really, really needed to, and also it’s growing on your behalf and it’ll turn into hundreds of thousands of dollars, um, by the time you retire. Or I’ve done an exercise where just the same as you set it up, if you wait, let’s say two more decades till like you’re 80, 85, it’s a million dollars by then. Like it really, really does make a huge difference, uh, the longer the time you give it to compound. And as you were saying, getting started earlier, um, gets that compounding working on your side. So it’s incredible. I’m so glad that you have, like, chosen to use this tool and that you’re sharing that with us now. One question that I get from other international graduate students is about, “Well, should I use a Roth IRA because I’m not sure if I’m gonna stay in the US long term?” And so I want to know your thoughts about that specifically from your perspective as an international student.

Quinn (25:13): Yeah. So I, I though about that too, because I still don’t know if I will stay in the United States after graduate, considering all those things going on. Uh, but then a great thing is you can still access that money when you’re not in the United States. Um, and here, two thou – 200,000 is not, not as huge as, you know, um, not that big of a deal for many people. Uh, but back. I’m from Vietnam. In Vietnam, 200,000 is so, so, so much money, uh, considered that the living expanse in Vietnam. So that even motivates me more to contribute to my Roth IRA.

Emily (25:49): So you’re seeing it actually as like a geoarbitrage play, like I’m being paid in US dollars, I can invest in index funds, you know, based largely in the US. It can grow at these US rates. I don’t have to pay US taxes on it because it’s a Roth. And then it’s, if you end up leaving the country, well, the upside is the money goes a lot further in the country that you would likely be living in. I actually haven’t heard that argument before, but I really like it.

Quinn (26:12): Yeah. So that’s, that’s how I think about, um, contributing to a Roth IRA as an international s – international student. Yeah, for many of us who have a PhD, um, they can also do a green card application, um, for many programs. So if you end up staying in the country having some money in a retirement account already, uh, when you enter the workforce, it still advance you toward your retirement goal much faster, um, without, if you don’t have that retirement saving.

Emily (26:41): Absolutely. Actually, this brings me to another question I’ve, I’ve discussed with other international students about the green card application process. Is that one of your sinking funds? Like have you started saving money or are you already spending money on that process?

Quinn (26:53): No, I actually haven’t started that process. Um, I kind of put it in the back of my mind for now, uh, because it’s, it’s hard to plan now for the futures and I don’t even know if I want to stay because of the, of the change in the funding for science. Uh, so yeah.

Checking Investment Account Balances

Emily (27:09): Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Anything else you wanna share about your choice to use a Roth IRA or how you feel about it? Actually, I’ll, I’ll share something and then you can answer as well. But when I was, um, investing during graduate school, and you mentioned using index funds, totally on board with that approach, absolutely. Um, I was investing at a really fun time, which was about from the trough of the great recession, um, in the growth years afterwards. And so it was like a bright spot in my finances to like, you know, every so often check my balance and be like, “Oh, it went up by more than my contributions over the past few months.” Of course, if you check it really, really often, then you’re gonna see volatility, but on the order of, you know, six months or a year or something, generally speaking, during that period of time, it was going up. Um, we’ve had some more volatility in recent years than I was experiencing at that time, so do you find it, like, fun to be watching the balance, like, go up sometimes and down sometimes, or is it like a source of stress? How do you feel about it?

Quinn (28:05): Honestly, the way I deal with it is I just don’t check my account at all. Um, I believe in the compound interest that happened over time that went over a long time. Um, and I also contribute every month, so dollar cost averaging method. Um, so I, I, I just basically just make it as autonomous as possible, uh, and I don’t have to think about it so that I can focus on my work and finishing my PhD. Uh, yeah, so basically I just block out all the noise, just let the market do whatever it wants, because I believe in the cycle and the market, of the market, it move and then it go up and then it go down eventually, it go up over time. Um –

Emily (28:46): Yeah, absolutely. That’s my same approach as well. Um, I check my investment account balances about once per month now because I record my net worth on the first day of every month, so I end up checking it then. So sometimes it’s down, but most of the time it’s gone up by some degree, at least, you know, contributions. So that’s fun. I remember when I was in graduate school and, like, in times when it was kind of volatile, I told myself I would only check the balance if I had heard, like, I listened to news at that time where, like, it would share stock market news or whatever. If I had heard that the market went up by at least 1% that day, then I would check it. And other than that, I wouldn’t check it at all. <laugh> So, like, I only got good news, right?

Quinn (29:25): Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the, the way I think about my Roth IRA is, is a long-term investment account. So as the day-to-day step, I have my budget, uh, I have my rent, everything covered by my budget, uh, and my emergency funds. So I rarely think about my Roth I, I just withdraw money, cont – invest every month, and once in a while, I, I, I remember that I have this investment account and open it up. I just look at the gain and was like, “Oh, that’s amazing.” And then I close it and then I move on. <laugh>

Emily (29:56): If it’s not too frequent, <laugh> it’ll usually be good news. Um, Okay. So when you, um, volunteered to be interviewed on the podcast, you said something in your application like, um, “Whatever life throws at me in the future, I’m confident that I can make it work,” based on your experience with your finances in graduate school. So can you elaborate on why you feel that way?

“Whatever Life Throws at Me in the Future, I’m Confident That I Can Make It Work”

Quinn (30:18): Yeah. So, um, Orange County is a very expensive place to live. Um, I us-, I usually joke with my friend that if I would not go to graduate school here at UCI, I would never be able to afford to live in Orange County, um, because it’s, it’s so, so, so expensive. Um, my stipend is 35,000, um, and I think 35,000 is considered, um, like acutely poverty, acutely low, um, income for one person household, household. Um, and yet I don’t feel like I’m missing, I’m missing out on anything. Um, I’m still having fun, a lot of fun. I still go out, uh, to a restaurant once a week or twice a week. I still have able to afford a cat, a car. Um, so I, yeah, and I, I, I don’t feel like I’m missing out anything at all and I still able to save about 20% of my, uh, income every month. So yeah, I don’t think, I hope that in the future I would not be, um, have, I would not be the, I would not have a, like acutely low income ever again, but, um, but yeah, with this very, very, very small amount of, uh, money to work with every month, I was still, I’m still being, I’m still able to work with it and, um, still having fun with my life and, you know, uh, so I’m, I’m, I think grad school beside what I learned from all the, you know, um, what I get from in academic-wise, I also feel much more confidence about the ability to handle finance, um, here, now or in the future.

Emily (31:52): Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I have to say, I agree with you, you’ve been presented a financial challenge and you’re succeeding within it. Um, so that certainly indicates that, and, and like you said, with your career trajectory, you’re likely, this is likely to be the least amount of money you’ll ever make in your life, right? So absolutely. And, and as you said, a, a high cost of living area. Um, but I think it’s really like the things that you have done, right? You talked about, you know, having a zero based budget, about paying yourself first, about using the sinking funds, like all these strategies that you’ve learned and put in place during graduate school, um, that you’ve done to make it work are, I, feed into that confidence, right? Like you’ve used these strategies, it’s, it’s happening. Like you’re able to save, you’re able to live a balanced life, you have, you know, satisfaction in your, um, in your spending, you can carry those forward. So you’ve like learned those skills and you can still apply them through the rest of your life. It gives me confidence as well that you’re gonna be, you know, feeling financially successful at later stages when you make more money because you have the skills to go with it. Other people who, as I was mentioning earlier, maybe just kind of like fly by the seat of their pants, like they’re not doing much planning or consideration, um, around their finances, just kind of making it. Um, that may be a protective measure, a psychological protective measure because it is pretty depressing like to be paid a stipend level only, but because they’re not developing the skills, um, and mindsets and habits around how to handle the money, I don’t think they could have the same confidence that you do about being able to handle money later in their life. There’s a phrase in the personal finance community, um, you can’t out earn bad spending habits, right? Like no matter how much money you make, guess what? You can spend that much. It is possible. And so at some point, if you want to, um, you know, have a handle on your finances, you need to right size your spending, you know, based on your income and so forth. And that can be a painful process. Um, but you’ve done it, right? You did it as a graduate student and all you need to do is carry those lessons forward. So, um, I absolutely agree with you. I think the confidence is, um, warranted in this case.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (33:51): Let’s wrap up with our final question then, the one that I ask all my guests, which is, what is your best financial advice for another early career PhD? And it could be something that we’ve touched on already, or it can be something completely new.

Quinn (34:02): Yeah, my advice for a future graduate student is just, um, to try to make the finance work for you. So I know that not a lot of people, um, like have the same privileges that I have, uh, graduate college without debt or may, they may also have a dependent. A lot of my friend have kid and wife. Um, so they, um, they, they may not be in the same position as I have, so they may not be, may be able to save as much or, um, invest as much, but I hope, I think the, the only advice I have is just to try to make the finance work for you. If you’re able to save more, that’s good, but if you’re able to save less, that’s fine too, because graduate school, um, is not really the time to, to save as much as you can, but it’s more like you try to build a habit of saving and and investing so that it could serve you for, uh, in the next step of your life.

Emily (34:55): Yeah, and I think, um, kind of what you said earlier about automating your finances as much as possible, having systems in place, even if people aren’t able to save, they can still do those things. Like even if you are living paycheck to paycheck, you can still have an awareness of your expenses, you can still have some automations in place. And so, like, you can still go down that learning and self-improvement route, even if overall you do need to spend all of your income because of, you know, your dependents or, you know, the lower stipend or not having subsidized housing or whatever the situation is. Um, so yeah, I think that’s really valuable. Um, Quinn, thank you so much for volunteering to come on the podcast. I’m really just delighted to hear your story.

Quinn (35:37): My pleasure.

Outro

Emily (35:37): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? We have collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to view transcripts or videos of each episode? We link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

The Best Financial Advice for First-Year Funded Graduate Students

August 10, 2026 by Jill Hoffman Leave a Comment

In this episode, Emily shares the microinterviews she recorded at two conferences this year and solicited from subscribers to her mailing list. The prompt she gave to everyone was “What is your best financial advice for a funded graduate student matriculating in fall 2026?” Emily was very curious whether the advice would be timeless or unique to 2026, and you can listen for how the respondents interpreted it. You’ll hear first the responses from the conference attendees at the Graduate Career Consortium Annual Meeting in June 2026 and the Higher Education Financial Wellness Summit in July 2026. Virtually all of these respondents work at universities, and most have PhDs themselves. Second, you’ll hear the responses submitted by my mailing list subscribers. Some of them came in audio form and some in written form, and Emily voices the written submissions. I’ll also make a few comments in between some of the submissions if there are podcast episodes that relate to the given advice.

Links mentioned in the Episode

The Best Financial Advice for First-Year Funded Graduate Students

Introduction

Emily R (00:00): Welcome to the Personal Finance for PhDs Podcast: A Higher Education in Personal Finance. This podcast is for PhDs and PhDs-to-be who want to explore the hidden curriculum of finances to learn the best practices for money management, career advancement, and advocacy for yourself and others. I’m your host, Dr. Emily Roberts, a financial educator specializing in early-career PhDs and founder of Personal Finance for PhDs.

Emily R (00:30): This is Season 24 Episode 5, and today I’m sharing the microinterviews I recorded at two conferences this year and solicited from subscribers to my mailing list. The prompt I gave to everyone was “What is your best financial advice for a funded graduate student matriculating in fall 2026?” I was very curious whether the advice would be timeless or unique to 2026, and you can listen for how the respondents interpreted it. You’ll hear first the responses from the conference attendees at the Graduate Career Consortium Annual Meeting in June 2026 and the Higher Education Financial Wellness Summit in July 2026. Virtually all of these respondents work at universities, and most have PhDs themselves. Second, you’ll hear the responses submitted by my mailing list subscribers. Some of them came in audio form and some in written form, and I am voicing the written submissions. I’ll also make a few comments in between some of the submissions if there are podcast episodes that relate to the given advice.

Emily R (01:38): If you are matriculating into graduate school in fall 2026 or are a prospective graduate student, go to PFforPhDs.com/offerletter/ to download a one-page reference sheet listing nine factors that affect your financial and overall wellbeing during graduate school. Ideally, you would use this list during admissions season to help you decide among offers, and it’s still valuable upon matriculating into graduate school to investigate how your university and program stack up on these factors. You’ll find several commonalities between this list and the advice given in this episode as well as some new points. Again, if you want to join my mailing list to download this quick resource, go to PFforPhDs.com/offerletter/. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s24e5/. Without further ado, here’s my compilation episode on the best financial advice for funded graduate students matriculating in fall 2026.

Best Financial Advice for Funded Graduate Students Matriculating in Fall 2026

Brent R (02:52): My name’s Brent Richards. I am the Assistant Dean for Graduate Research and Education at the University of Oklahoma, uh, Graduate College on the health campus. And, uh, my advice for a new student, um, coming in, uh, in the, uh, uh, fall of 26 would be, um, first of all, uh, really know what the funding model of the program you’re going into looks like. So if it’s funded all the way through, or if it’s only funded through the first year or two, and then if, if that’s the case, how does the funding, uh, continue? Are you gonna be expected to get your own training grant? Um, are you gonna move on to your, your PIs grant? And just know that from the beginning and don’t wait until, you know, you’re already two or three years in and, and now suddenly you have to scramble to, to find money.

Grace K (03:43): Hello, my name is Grace Kimball. I work as the Assistant Director of Professional Development at UC Santa Barbara. My advice to incoming funded graduate students would be to plan very carefully with your finances and save wherever you can, because you sometimes just never know what the future may hold.

Ilana H (04:02): This is Ilana Horwitz. I’m an assistant professor at Tulane University. And my best advice is to find other people who do really cool things and make soups or take photos, uh, or build furniture and try to barter with them for services that you can offer and tra – and create a trade economy.

Emily R (04:22): Ilana gave a previous interview for this podcast in which she expounded on this advice, so if you’re interested, listen to Season 16 Episode 4.

Briana M (04:33): I’m Briana Mohan. I’m a program director at University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center. I think primarily I would encourage people to find colleagues, classmates, acquaintances who are really into how to manage money, how to invest money, whether it’s in retirement, whether it’s in stocks, whether it’s, you know, put it under your mattress, like, whatever. Um, don’t talk to my 13-year-old who thinks that counterfeiting is the way to make money. But talk to, like, adults who are really enthusiastic and knowledgeable about money and how to make it work for you. Um, and don’t think that that’s something that should only start after you have, like, a salary, right? Um, because you kind of can’t start too early, and at least with knowing what the, I don’t know, what the landscape is like for money.

Nicole L (05:34): Hello, my name is Nicole Lilly, and I work at Florida State University in the Career Center. So thinking about what you can do best when you’re getting started with your first stipend is paying yourself first. So making sure you put aside some sort of money, whether it’s 10%, 5%, anything from your salary, because sooner or later something’s gonna go wrong. A car might break down and you have to pay additional pet deposit. Who knows what? But just get in the habit of just saving stuff now, because when things get more complicated with more salary, more responsibilities, you’ve already started that saving habit. So you have, like, an emergency fund, money that you can dip into without having to go on a credit card to kinda get you to stay out of trouble.

Emily S K (06:17): Hi. My name is Emily Sferra Kapela. I am the program specialist for career and professional development at the University of Michigan Medical School. My advice would be to think ahead to next summer. Do you have funding for next summer? And if not, what are you going to do? Will you save part of your earnings over the academic year to fund yourself? Will you seek out additional funding? Or will you find a job?

Cindy V (06:59): My name’s Cindy Vigueira. I am a Director of Curriculum Programs, uh, for the Division of Biology and Biomedical Sciences at Washington University in St. Louis. My advice is to save money. Um, don’t spend it all. Make sure you have a rainy day fund so that if you have an unexpected expense, you’re ready to cover it.

Natalie D (07:20): Hi, this is Natalie D’Silva. I am the Senior Manager for Career Professional Development at Scripps Research in San Diego. My advice for international students matriculating this fall is to start saving, especially if you’re considering, uh, immigration and continuing on in the country. Especially if that is years away, start saving now because it costs a lot of money, um, to immigrate.

Chris G (07:47): Hi. My name is Chris Golde. I’m a career coach for PhDs and postdocs at Stanford University. And my piece of advice is to take advantage of your funded status, to really explore broadly the resources that are available at your university. It’s very tempting to really focus, particularly in the first couple years, on life within your department, but your university has so much to offer you, and you will grow as a person, and your opportunities in the world will grow as you look around and seize opportunities and take advantage of them and try things.

Raquel S (08:21): My name’s Raquel Salinas, and I’m the Assistant Dean of Career and Alumni Engagement at MD Anderson UT Health Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences. And in a previous role, I specifically worked with master’s students in a bridge to the doctorate program. So I worked with these students, uh, to apply for PhD programs, uh, and then help them transition as they were leaving their master’s and starting their PhD programs. And so that question of how do you deal with finances during that time came up, especially because many of the students I worked with were first generation, came from low socioeconomic backgrounds. And this was a really challenging time. How do you move across the country? How do you, um, prepare for a move when you don’t make a lot of money, or maybe you’ve made no money, and now you have to navigate that. Um, and you may not be, be paid your first stipend until you’ve worked fully a month. Uh, and family support is very limited. And so in these cases, we often visited that idea of, do you take out a loan in your last semester before you, to prepare and save for that move? Um, and so one of the things that we constantly talked about was estimating the cost of the move and taking out the minimum required to do that move, because as we all know, loans compound. And so they can be really helpful and effective before you get to graduate school, but they have to be planned very carefully. So taking out too much can really lead to a lot of long-term strife when you, especially when you get to that point of graduating your PhD and having to pay it back. Um, the other thing would be to reach out to your graduate school and see if there’s any funds or support, um, that can help with that move or advances on those first paychecks, um, or loans to help with the move as well. So that would be my advice if you are finding this to be really challenging time in moving, uh, and covering those expenses.

Emily R (10:29): I want to double triple quadruple underline what Raquel said about planning carefully for taking out federal student loan debt, and to that end, if you are considering a federal student loan, please listen to Season 24 Episode 4 for the latest updates. If you take out a federal student loan in or after July 2026, you are locked into the new repayment plan options, the tiered standard plan and the Repayment Assistance Plan, so if you want or need to retain access to the legacy income-driven repayment plans, you absolutely cannot take out another federal student loan. Again, for more details, go to Season 24 Episode 4. I love Raquel’s suggestion to approach your graduate school about alternative ways to fund your moving expenses.

Brian C (11:22): Hi, I’m Brian Campbell, Associate Director of Graduate Career Development at Loyola University of Chicago. My PhD in History from the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. And my piece of financial advice for someone in a stipend granting PhD program would be to find small side hustles at some point during your PhD that can help you for a specific purpose. For me, it was paying off some private student loan debt that I had while I was in my PhD. So I did that in a number of ways. Um, I, in, in part, I worked with some friends on a couple of projects and got some, like, side money for that. Um, at one point, I, I’ll be honest, I was one of those people who donated plasma on the side, because I could do it. I had a plasma donation place right next to me. Um, and I made a lot of money doing that, uh, you know, a couple of days a week, and it enabled me to pay off those student loans. So whatever’s gonna work for you, um, and you feel like is healthy and, uh, healthy and productive side hustle.

Jessica V (12:30): Hello. My name is Jessica Vélez. I am the senior manager of engagement, community building and professional development for the Genetic Society of America. And my advice is start a budget yesterday. Start it as soon as possible. There are lots of software out there that you can use, some of which are free. Uh, I will quickly plug one called You Need a Budget that gives you a free year. And I started that when I was in graduate school, and I will give a personal anecdote that after I finished graduate school, I had a job lined up. It fell through as these things happen. But because I had been using YNAB for so long, I was able to live fine for three months off of my savings that I had been able to save because of the budgeting habits that I had developed. So cannot recommend a budget enough.

Emily R (13:16): If you want to take a deep dive into You Need a Budget in particular, subscribe to this podcast so you won’t miss the forthcoming interview with returning guest Elle Rathbun, who has used the program to great success during graduate school. The episode will be published in Season 25.

Sophie L (13:33): Hi, I’m Sophie Lewis. I’m a graduate assistant and doctoral candidate at Boston University. I think the biggest piece of advice I would have for matriculating PhD students this fall is to know when you’re getting paid and how much you’re getting paid so that you can kind of track your income and budget it out over time so there’s no surprises when you kind of get paid.

Jessica M (13:57): Hi, my name is Jessica McCarthy. I am the Director of Grad Student Support at Boston University. And a piece of advice, well, two pieces of advice that I would give to incoming PhD students is know, find out who in your department oversees your pay so that if there is an issue, you know who to go to directly. The second piece is that if you are in a teaching role or some other sort of role that’s affiliated with a classroom, find out a little bit more about what the expectations and assumptions are for any summer teaching. Is it an extra stipend? Is it included in your stipend? Are you allowed to do it? Are you prevented from doing it? Um, because we’ve seen some PhD students kind of get a little bit surprised in the summer, um, thinking that they would be teaching another course for X amount of dollars and maybe it didn’t end up being that way.

Letty T (14:46): My name is Letty Treviño, she/her/ella pronouns. I’m the Assistant Director of Inclusion Initiatives for graduate programs in postdoc affairs and the biosciences at UCLA. What financial advice would I give? You should read every, uh, every bit of a financial statement. Read all the fine print. And for the UC system, specifically, read your union contract on the union website because that’s where you will find it in its entirety.

Lizzy M (15:18): Hello. My name is Lizzy Machado, and I’m a career counselor for graduate students at Marquette University in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And the advice that I would give is to make a budget if you haven’t already. So basically tracking how much are you getting from your funding? How much do you have coming in? How much do you have in your savings? Are there any other sources of income that you have coming in? And then what are your expenses? Housing, what do you expect for food? Other fixed things so you know what your margin is and whether or not you need to supplement that by finding an on-campus job, seeking other ways of funding, applying to grants, uh, applying to scholarships, other things like that.

Alicia R (16:09): My name’s Alicia Roy. I work at the Gladstone Institutes in San Francisco, and I’m a career services manager there. And I did my PhD from UC Berkeley. And when I think about the question of financial advice, a big one is to not compare your financial situation to other people. It’s very easy in grad programs to compare yourself to your friends or friends of friends or family who did not go to grad school and see their income, their purchases, and, and wonder why you’re not doing that or, or worry about it. And I would say the only reason I would pay attention to those worries is that if they become really all consuming, then maybe that’s an indicator that you’re not actually satisfied with your current situation. And the pros and cons of why you decided to go to grad school and the material benefit that maybe you see other people getting is a factor that’s bigger than maybe you initially realized. If you find it difficult to dismiss those thoughts, then I would say that that’s an interesting line to follow. But otherwise, I felt like I was happy with my situation. I was able, I was focusing on what I was able to do that I wouldn’t have been able to do otherwise, like get funding for travel. Um, and, you know, get, get support in, uh, doing things like setting up your Roth IRA early if you can. I did that with a friend and that helped a lot. But I think it was so often the discussion about, like, what we saw colleagues who weren’t in grad school doing and the savings that they had or the purchases that they were making or the, the places that they were living. Um, and ultimately, I don’t think that was a helpful thing to focus on with that caveat that I mentioned.

Commercial

Emily R (17:58): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, budgeting, or designing your financial life, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer live workshops, asynchronous online courses, and cohort-based programs on these topics, and I’m now booking for the 2026-2027 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, medical school, postdoc office, or postdoc association? My workshops are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. The fall semester is an excellent time for any type of personal finance content. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Best Financial Advice for Funded Graduate Students Matriculating in Fall 2026

Emily S (19:33): Hi, I’m Emily Schwartz. I’m the director of financial education for MidFirst Bank. And, you know, my advice would be start planning your finances from day one. I know there’s so much to start doing when you enter grad school, but make sure that getting your finances figured out is part of it that you do right away. Don’t save it for later. That’s when those bad habits start to creep in.

Thedley N (19:57): Hi, my name is Thedley Nicolas. I am a student at Florida International University, a DBA student, and I am also a financial education specialist. One advice I will tell you, have consistency and discipline. Know when to say no to the wants and follow your financial goals. The more you are consistent with the small, um, deposits, the, um, eventually will increase. And you got this, okay?

Sara E (20:28): So I’m Sara Early from Iowa State University, a financial aid advisor. And even if you are funded by your graduate program, I still recommend talking to your financial aid office just in case there’s anything else available to you. Um, because you can get financial aid up to your cost of attendance. And a lot of financial aid offices also have, uh, financial success programs to help you figure out how to finance your life past college.

Emily R (20:55): From further conversation I had with Sara before and after this audio clip, I wanted to clarify that she was referring to scholarships and fellowships that you might be able to get through the financial aid office, not only student loans. That would not at all have been apparent to me as a funded graduate student.

Kathryn W (21:12): Hi, everybody. My name is Kathryn Wilson. I’m the Associate Director of Student Financial Support and Housing Resources at the Boston University Medical Campus. Um, my best financial advice for a funded graduate student matriculating in the fall 2026 is to pay yourself first. So set aside anything you can for that rainy day fund, whether that be for emergencies, um, or just a little bit of a break in your academic studies to get out and enjoy life. I think that that’s really important balance to have as a student and as a community member.

Sara R (21:42): My name is Sara Ray. I’m the incoming director of Powercat Financial at Kansas State University. So for a graduate student who is, say, starting in fall 2026, um, they are super excited about starting, but you might encounter some hurdles along the way where you realize, “I might not finish this program.” Um, that can feel really sa – scary and you’re facing something called the sunk cost fallacy, where you put in so much time and effort and you’re, you’re feeling that you need to finish. You might also be facing some opportunity costs around, “I need to go earn money, um, and I need a real job. Um, but also I wanna finish this degree despite all of the obstacles.” I think it’s really important to sit down and it could be a basic pro/con list. It could be, um, you know, any number of decision-making frameworks, but really evaluate at that moment in time in your life what’s really important to you. Um, and of course, just having financial stability can be a, a part of that process. Um, a thing that I really found when I was in grad school and I was facing sunk costs, something that I wish I had was, um, I wish I had really sought out either mental health counseling or career counseling, um, for some of our universities that have access to one-on-one financial counseling. Any of those resources can be really helpful. Just having a more objective third party is amazing, um, when you’re, you’re really looking at all areas of your life, including, you know, this difficult graduate program and deciding if you wanna finish and what might be financial obstacles, opportunities, and just really making the best choice for you. I think that’s the most important thing is there’s so many opportunities and what you’ve done in your grad program isn’t lost. Even if you don’t finish the degree, you can take what you’ve learned and the skillset you’ve built and it can become an amazing next part of a career, even if you don’t finish the PhD.

Amgad H (24:08): My name is Amgad Hussein. I am the financial wellbeing program coordinator at the University of Buffalo. My best advice for a funded graduate student who’s starting in the fall of 2026 would probably be to look inward and kind of analyze your relationship with money. Learn what makes you spend, what makes you save, and how those things interact with each other, and how those things affect your general wellbeing and your general wellness. And that point of reflection can be really rewarding and really helpful for setting up your future.

Jennifer C (24:36): My name is Jennifer Careaga. I’m the Assistant Director of Student Financial Literacy and Wellness at University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston. And my best advice for a funded grad student matriculating in the fall of 2026 is to live within your means. Know the money that’s coming in, know the money that’s going out, and make sure what’s going out is less than what’s coming in. One of the ways that I recommend students try to live within their means and cut their expenses is take advantage of all of the free stuff you can get. Um, whether it is on campus food pantry or a city food pantry, um, you know, there’s a lot of food drives, especially in my area. Um, apply for SNAP benefits if you’re eligible. In my state, students are.

Lyndsi B (25:27): My name is Lyndsi Burcham, and I am the financial wellness program manager at the University of Pennsylvania. Um, my best financial advice for a funded grad student matriculating in fall 2026 is go see your school’s financial wellness office to talk about your financial goals and, um, you know, s – uh, you don’t have to worry about student loans at this point, so let’s think about how we can be proactive and, um, set yourself up for success post-grad.

Anna (25:54): My name’s Anna, and I work with the Peer Financial Counseling Program at University of Virginia. And my advice to first-year fully funded PhD student would be to set up a budget and to make sure you’re fully funded the whole time.

Lynn L (26:08): Hi, I’m Lynn Letukas. I’m head of strategic programs and partnerships at Intuit for Education. Uh, there’s so many things that are going through my mind, but I really wanna emphasize the importance of starting to save early and compounding interest. So even if you only have a few dollars, you wanna take even that $25 a paycheck that you have, save it, invest it, and let it compound other, over time. So by the time you graduate or as you move throughout your career, you will see that money grow and it’ll help you for retirement.

Melissa G (26:39): So I’m Melissa Groves. I’m the chairperson of the economics department at Towson University in Maryland. And my best financial advice for a funded grad student who’s matriculating in fall 2026 is to, uh, enjoy the benefit of having your education funded, but be careful that that doesn’t translate over into carelessness in other large expenses like housing and transportation. Um, and you keep in mind kind of best decision making, um, in those areas and don’t, um, overspend.

Jonathan L (27:16): Hi, my, my name is Jonathan Lewis, and I am a PhD-trained research fellow at the University of Massachusetts, Boston, working with faculty in the leadership and education program. I would say you need to know explicitly what your funded commitment, what the terms of your funded commitment look like. In other words, are you expected to teach a certain number of courses or produce a certain number of research papers based on your assistantships? How many semesters are you guaranteed funding? Uh, what is your plan B if your faculty member was to go to a different institution or the priorities or financial situation of the department were to change? So really understanding what the school is committing to and what they’re kind of sort of hoping to commit to, but things might change. Um, and understanding how you can create a multi-year sustainable financial plan for yourself that relies on the funding and then supplements elsewhere as needed to get you to graduation.

Barbara S (28:19): Barbara Sweeney, coordinator of Food Security Outreach, University of Rhode Island, Kingston, Rhode Island. My best financial advice for funded grad students actually has two pieces. One, learn about the basic needs that are available on your campus. Food pantries, housing, uh, advocacy, um, emergency funding. You may need those and you wanna know about them before you need them. The second is, it’s not too early to think about summer funding. We all, uh, we get funded for fall and spring, and summer is a long 14 or 15 weeks, and it’s really important to find out if your major professor will have funding for you next summer.

Rohit P (28:58): My name is Rohit Prasad. I work within financial literacy space in education, higher education. Um, I’d say, you know, in this particular question, assuming a student’s fully funded in the sense that they don’t need any additional financial aid from the university, they have their main expenses covered and all their needs covered. At that point, a student can really kind of venture with their money into the realm of usually investing. ‘Cause at that point, that frees you up and frees up your money to now use it to grow your money long-term. This is things like compounding interest, long-term investing, you know, folks that may interpret as, like, stock market and bonds, long-term CDs, however you choose to interpret that. But it does allow for investing versus just trying to maintain your lifestyle day-to-day or budgeting month to month.

Sara L (29:50): I am Sara Lorenzen, and I am the Assistant Director of Financial Wellbeing at UNC Chapel Hill. And advice I would give to a fully funded student is Um, to still always know what your other funding options are, because especially with like recent changes, funding can change. So it’s important to make sure that you still file your FAFSA even if you’re not gonna utilize student loans. Um, and that you know what your private lending options are if something happens and you lose part or all of your funding, so you don’t have to stop in your course to finish your degree.

Haley H-D (30:24): My name is Haley Hamblin-Dold, and I’m the Assistant Dean of Students for Basic Needs and Student Support at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. And my advice to incoming graduate students, um, for financial tips is to just know where your food resources are. So when you come into your graduate program, you may think that you have all the financial resources you need. You’re not concerned about where your food is gonna come from, but at any point during, uh, your time, something might happen. And so knowing where your food pantry is, following them on social media, locating them on your campus, it might not be near where you’re studying and researching, and so being able to access that and know how to get there is really valuable so that if something, when something comes up, you know where to go and have those resources available to you.

Elena E (31:05): My name is Elena Evans. I’m a PhD candidate at Vanderbilt University, and my best piece of advice is to get a high yield savings account. Something that’s around 3% or even higher is great. Something that’ll give you a lot of interest just for having a savings account.

McKenzie (31:23): I’m McKenzie, a PhD student at the University of Washington. My best financial advice is to join your union if you have one. In our last contract negotiations our union won a base stipend increase from $32,000 to $46,000 over three years and we successfully countered a proposal that would raise our health insurance premium costs by $1,000 a year.

Latasha W (31:50): Latasha Woodward, Engineer I At Pro2Serve. Use a zero-based budget to manage finances. This helps you keep track of what is coming in and out. With this method, every dollar has a purpose. Even though money will be tight, put aside money to go have fun, even if it’s just getting coffee. Coffee runs are important in graduate and professional school.

Rob R (32:14): I’m Rob Rich, a former PhD student in English at University of Rochester, finished in 2023. My advice, pay down your undergraduate loan debt, if you have any, as quickly as you can, because the faster you pay it down, the less you end up having to pay. Then start putting money in money market funds and index funds. Live as close to campus as humanly possible.

Karen L (32:39): I am Karen Lawrence, program manager at St. Jude Children’s Hospital. Save painlessly in a separate account. I prefer mine to be in a separate bank with no ATM card access, so when you access it, it is a different effort and intentional. Ways to build. If possible, have a small portion of your paycheck be automatically deposited. Even $10 a paycheck will add up quickly. Anytime you get money beyond your normal paycheck, birthday money, tax return, raise, split it in half. Put half in your savings account and then enjoy the rest. You still get a treat, but also are investing in your future needs.

Outro

Emily R (33:25): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

Even More Reasons Not to Fund Your PhD with Federal Student Loans

July 27, 2026 by Jill Hoffman 2 Comments

In this episode, Emily interviews Janna McKay, a Certified Student Loan Professional (CSLP) who works as a consultant for Student Loan Planner. They discuss the changes to the federal student loan program brought about by the One Big Beautiful Bill Act of 2025 that were implemented on July 1, 2026. For both continuing and new PhD students, Janna shares the federal student loan borrowing limits in play and the available repayment plans, emphasizing caution for graduate students who hold significant student loan debt taken out prior to July 1, 2026 who are weighing taking out another federal student loan with closing a funding gap in a different manner. Janna and Emily also discuss the updates on the Saving on a Valuable Education (SAVE) plan, how all the income-driven repayment plans intersect with Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), and the possible advantage to waiving deferment in favor of enrolling early in the Repayment Assistance Plan (RAP). This episode is a must-listen for any graduate student who is considering or will consider taking out a federal student loan going forward and any PhD or PhD-to-be who is currently holding federal student loan debt.

Links mentioned in the Episode

Even More Reasons Not to Fund Your PhD with Federal Student Loans

Teaser

Janna (00:00): I first want to acknowledge it is really hard to be a borrower right now and really hard to make the right decision. It feels like it’s an impossible task. Unless we see a new administration with new rules, which in my experience, we’ve had a new repayment plan every administration for the past five.

Introduction

Emily (00:54): This is Season 24, Episode 4, and today my guest is Janna McKay, a Certified Student Loan Professional who works as a consultant for Student Loan Planner. Janna and I discuss the changes to the federal student loan program brought about by the One Big Beautiful Bill Act of 2025 and implemented on July 1, 2026 that are most relevant to PhD students. For both continuing and new PhD students, Janna shares the federal student loan borrowing limits in play and the available repayment plans. She emphasizes caution for graduate students who hold significant student loan debt taken out prior to July 1, 2026 who are weighing taking out another federal student loan with closing a funding gap in a different manner. Janna and I also discuss the updates on the Saving on a Valuable Education or SAVE plan, how all the income-driven repayment plans intersect with Public Service Loan Forgiveness or PSLF, and the possible advantage to waiving deferment in favor of enrolling early in the Repayment Assistance Plan or RAP. This episode is a must-listen for any graduate student who is considering or might consider taking out a federal student loan going forward and any PhD or PhD-to-be who is currently holding federal student loan debt.

Emily (02:22): I’ve been casually recommending Student Loan Planner for years, and this is the third podcast episode in which I’ve interviewed one of their consultants. We are finally formalizing our relationship, and the key factor for me was you all getting a discount on their student loan consultation package. If you need a consultation after listening to this episode or in the coming years, please go through PFforPhDs.com/SLP/ to receive $100 off Student Loan Planner’s standard consultation fee. This is an affiliate relationship, so I’ll also receive a commission when you go through my link. However, like I said, I’ve been recommending them all along anyway and now you get a discount, so win-win-win if you are in need of professional advice on how to handle your student loans. That link again is PFforPhDs.com/SLP/. I’ll also add that there are tons of free resources, including very detailed calculators at StudentLoanPlanner.com. I highly recommend working with those calculators as you’re listening to this episode if you’re a current borrower or are considering taking out a federal student loan to translate what Janna and I discuss into concrete numbers that apply to your life. You can find the show notes for this episode at PFforPhDs.com/s24e4/. Without further ado, here’s my interview with Janna McKay of Student Loan Planner.

Will You Please Introduce Yourself Further?

Emily (04:03): I am delighted to have on the podcast today Janna McKay, who is a consultant with Student Loan Planner, and we are going to talk about all the recent federal student loan changes that are most pertinent to PhD students and funded graduate students. Um, this is actually the third time I’ve had a consultant with Student Loan Planner on the podcast. Uh, Meagan McGuire joined me in season seven, episode 13 and season 14, episode seven. But those were a lifetime ago and we have so many new things to talk about with respect to student loans. Um, I know this will not apply to everyone, uh, listening to this for various reasons, but if you’re willing, I would say stay on because you might save a life with some of the information in this podcast if you can pass it on to a friend that it is relevant for. So Janna, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today, and will you please introduce yourself further for the audience?

Janna (04:50): Yes, thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. Um, so I’m Janna McKay, like you said, accredited financial counselor and certified student loan professional. But what’s more important to me, I’ve spent my entire career of over 22 years in higher education and I specifically work with applicants, students and alumni managing educational debt, understanding it, um, and also helping with financial wellness and confidence. So I still do. I work with PhD students, both stipend-based, and I’ve worked with tuition-based in the past. And so I really understand the tough place that we’re in and everybody’s in as far as funding goes, whether it’s funding in the lab, whether it’s how far the stipend goes. So I’m excited to be here to talk about the changes that are ahead.

Federal Student Loans for Grad Students Starting Programs in July 2026 and Beyond

Emily (05:33): Yes, and we’re really lucky to have you. So thank you so much for, um, being willing to come on the podcast. Now, we’re gonna divide this discussion into a few sections. So first, we’re going to talk about a new graduate student. So someone matriculating into a graduate program in July 2026 or following. Have some questions there. Then we’re gonna talk about a continuing graduate student who started their program prior to July 2026. Uh, in both those cases, we’re talking about a person who is considering taking out federal student loans. And then the third section we’re going to talk about, um, not someone who’s taking out new student loans post July 2026, but just someone who has existing student loans and what is going on <laugh> for that person. Uh so those are three sections that we’ll go through. Um so first for that person, new graduate student matriculating July 2026 or later, oh, by the way, I have to say today is July 8th, 2026, and maybe something will change after July 8th, 2026. So what you’re hearing is accurate as of today. Um, but obviously there’s been fast moving changes even in the past few weeks. Okay. So with that out of the way, we’re talking about someone who is matriculating to a new graduate program in July 2026 or following. Um, if they are thinking about taking out a federal student loan, if they do decide to take out a federal student loan, what are the borrowing limits that they’re subject to? This has been so confusing in recent, uh months. So yes, let’s start with that question.

Janna (06:54): There is no GradPlus loan anymore. So we just have to start with there is a lot of a big limit on funding and what’s available and how much is available. So no more Graduate Plus loan is a big one. But for federal student loans, that does leave us with the unsubsidized Stafford loan, which will have an annual limit of $20,500 per year and a lifetime limit of $100,000. So that is not going to go very far. And I wanna add another layer on top of this. There is something called loan proration where if you’re not attending full-time, you’re not eligible for the full amount, which complicates it even further. Um, and even financial aid offices are like, how are we gonna handle this except for recommending people go full-time all the time?

Janna (07:39): So what can be tricky here is the limit does include prior borrowing. So if your program started after July 1st, we are looking at that lifetime limit of $100,000 for graduate students. If you have a previous master’s or doctoral program, that borrowing is included. So it’s not as easy in the past where you could pay down some of the funds, come back to school and be eligible again. You are looking at all past borrowing history, whether there’s an outstanding balance or not, that is going to limit what you’re eligible for.

Emily (08:12): Wow. And that was one of the points of clarification that I really wanted because it is so common, for instance, coming to a PhD program to have debt from the undergraduate to get their master’s degree, whatever had happened before that point. Really, really good to know that even if you paid down the debt, you’re still subject to that $100,000 lifetime borrowing limit. So listener, think for yourself, like, what are you already up to? How much have you borrowed in the past and how close are you, um, to the limit? And there may be listeners who are already over it. So maybe federal student loans are just completely out of the question, um, under this, under this framework.

Janna (08:43): If you do have the past borrowing history and we’re gonna get into different repayment plans, but you borrow again, it does exclude you from legacy repayment plans, which can be a deal breaker for some people. Um, I have certain people that have high borrowing from prior that are choosing a private loan as an option, for an example, because they don’t wanna lose access to certain repayment plans. So that’s another consideration, not just the limits, but how does this impact the other debt that I do have?

Emily (09:11): Yeah, let’s really hit hard on that. So let’s assume that a person does have some degree of past federal student loans, um, and they’re coming into this new degree program. Um, they’re subject to these new limits, the lifetime limit, the annual limit. Um, but they’re also, there’s also this change in the repayment plan. So if I understand this correctly, um, if they don’t take out a new loan, they still have access to what you just called the legacy programs. Let’s define more specifically what those are. Um, but if they do take out a new student loan, then they’re under the new options. So let’s go through what are the legacy options that, I’m sure it depends on the individual, but that might be available, um, if they don’t take out a new student loan.

Income-Based Repayment Plans for Federal Student Loans

Janna (09:50): Our most common one is the income-based repayment plan. So there are two versions of this, the new and the old. The new version, lower payment, it’s 10% of discretionary income with a 20-year term. The old version is a 25-year term. 15% of discretionary income is used for the payment. So it’s a more expensive plan, but it all depends on when you borrowed for the very first time. So the new version is for people that borrowed for the very first time on or after July 1st of 2014. Um, the old version is for anyone that borrowed before then. Okay? Um, but we also have the pay-as-you-earn plan and that is available, but it’s only going to be available for two more years. So it sunsets June 30th of 2028. Um, and something really important to know about income-driven repayment plans, um, they can be made through regulatory process, which is through rulemaking with the Department of Education.

Janna (10:43): That would be your pay as you earn, your SAVE plan. There’s income contingent too, but it’s not a very common plan that we see anymore. Um, but then we have the IBR plan, both the new and the old, those are made through legislative changes, so acts of Congress. Um, so it was easy with the bill that passed last July to get rid of the regulatory plans. But the ones that were made through Congress a little bit tougher because it would take a separate act of Congress to eliminate the income-based repayment plan, as an example. So those are legacy. And then when we talk about fixed repayment plans, our typical plans are the standard 10-year, which is your default repayment plan, highest monthly payment amount over 10 years. We also have a graduated repayment plan where it increases every two years or an extended 25-year term plan. So those are what we would call legacy plans.

Emily (11:35): And my understanding is that, um, with the, the income-driven repayment plans you mentioned, um, IBR repay and so forth, the idea there is that someone enters into that kind of a plan to get this lower monthly payment. They have the extended repayment term, but forgiveness comes at the end of whatever the term is. So it is a person who is not necessarily planning on paying off their loans in full, but is going for this forgiveness option. Versus the standard, the graduated, the extended plans that you just mentioned. That is a person who is planning on paying off the loans in full over whatever the term is at whatever the rates are, um, given the specific plan. So it’s like people who are going for forgiveness or people who are going for full repayment are sort of the two camps. Is that right?

Federal Student Loan Forgiveness vs. Full Repayment

Janna (12:21): Yes, exactly right. So the pay as you earn had a 20-year term, and some people might get there in the next two years. The new version of the income-based repayment has a 20-year term as well. And it doesn’t have to be consecutive. So I also like to think of it in qualifying payments. You have to have 240 payments there. Um, the IBR has 30 or 300 payments, excuse me, 25 years. And so you’re making the minimum payment, you’re getting forgiveness at the end, and that forgiveness may be subject to taxes, which is the other hot topic right now. Um, just because we had a tax exemption in place from 2021 through 2025 and it was not extended. So 2026 come, you know, tax season next year, we’re going to see the impact of taxation on loan forgiveness.

Emily (13:09): Okay. So to bring it back to the person who is considering taking out a new federal student loan, they kind of need to know, I guess, are they in a go for forgiveness camp or are they in a, I’m gonna repay this in full camp? That would help them with the decision-making here, right? Because the plans will change if they take out a new loan. And I guess we, we haven’t gone through the new ones yet. We need to go through the new ones. Um, but they really need to know, do I have to retain access to these old plans or is it okay if I am sort of stuck with these new plans? Is that right?

Janna (13:41): Yes. Very good point. I would say the majority of people either want the 20-year term and lower payment of the new version of the IBR and they want that forgiveness piece or it’s typically the lowest monthly payment out of old and new plans for public service loan forgiveness. So another example. Um, or they would rather have a 25-year term versus the RAP, which we’ll talk about. It has a 30-year term. So it’s a full-on mortgage term.

Emily (14:09): But we’re still kind of talking about people who have relatively high student loan balances. And I’m saying relative to their post PhD, post-done with graduate school incomes, right? People who have a pretty low balance relative to their future income are probably gonna be in the repay in full camp anyway, right?

Janna (14:25): Yes, exactly. Yep. And though, I mean, you have more options there and we would then be looking at what are your interest rates? How do you wanna prioritize paying this off? But more than often, it’s a fixed repayment plan so that it has predictability and gives them a little bit of flexibility with their cashflow.

Federal Student Loan Plans in July 2026 and Beyond

Emily (14:43): So let’s talk about the new set of plans. Um, if someone does take out a student loan July 1st, 2026 or later, then they are in the new regime. So what are the repayment options in the new regime?

Janna (14:53): We have two plans. So they’re thinking this simplifies things. Um, we have the fixed in this case as a tiered standard. It is a 10 to 25-year term based on how much debt you have outstanding at the time that you have, you enter repayment. And then on the other side, the only income-driven repayment plan available is the RAP plan or the repayment assistance plan. And there are good sides to this plan. Um, but I really see it working for very, couple groups of people where it’s beneficial. So nobody is going to borrow and think, “Ah, I’m gonna pay this back in three – 30 years,” right? And get some sort of forgiveness. Um, it’s drawn out so long that it makes that hard to achieve because our income goes up as our career goes. And I think it’s hard for people to be able to get forgiveness in that plan, really.

Emily (15:46): Yeah, that makes sense. Um, the, the term is so long, um, that you’re getting through those early stages of your career. I mean, that’s, that’s a full mortgage. That’s a age 30 to age 60 kind of situation making that payment the whole time. So it sounds like the math is working out that for a lot of people, even if they would prefer the lower payments, would prefer to have forgiveness, just it’s going on so long, they’re gonna end up with complete repayment at some point along the way if their income continues going up as kind of the average persons would.

Janna (16:14): Exactly. And so one thing I forgot to mention about the IBR is there is a ceiling on that plan. There’s a payment cap equal to the 10-year standard amount. And so we don’t see the payment going above that. There’s a hard stop. So you can make more money and it won’t impact the student loan payment. On the other hand, though, the RAP plan does not have a limit. If you make more than $100,000, it’s a straight 10% of your adjusted gross income. So that matters too. So when we look at RAP though, where I do think it’s helpful is for new grads where we are looking at you’re earning less. Um, the RAP plan has an interest subsidy where if your minimum monthly payment does not cover the amount of monthly interest that’s accruing, the difference is subsidized or paid by the government. And so we don’t have balance growth or negative amortization, which is really helpful early in the career. So that is a nice benefit of the plan. And really to use the plan for what it’s worth is that interest subsidy. Um, but I wanna note that if you make extra payments while you’re eligible for the subsidy, it just reduces the subsidy. So it’s not always beneficial. It’s more beneficial to save anything extra you’d be putting toward your student loans. And when you no longer qualify for the subsidy, pour that all into your loans.

Emily (17:31): I see. The new graduate student <laugh> coming in, considering taking out the federal student loan, they probably need to study all these systems. They need to know what their best option is under the old set of systems. Was it going to be, um, IBR, new old, or a different one? Which you said a couple of those are sunsetting in the, in the near future. So they might still even be in grad school, by the time the sunsetting happens. Um, versus the new set of plans. And they really have to weigh how important is it to my financial wellbeing at this moment to take out this federal student loan versus some of the other options that may be available to them for funding their graduate program or their living expenses?

Janna (18:12): Exactly. And short-term versus long-term planning, right? Short-term is getting you through your program, but then how does this impact me long-term as far as what does repayment look like?

Private Student Loans for Grad School

Emily (18:23): So let’s take the first scenario where someone definitely needs debt <laugh> for this new graduate degree. Um, but they, let’s say they’ve decided it’s not really a great idea for them to take out a federal student loan. What other options do they have?

Janna (18:36): So typically with that, we are looking at private student loans. That is the most common. Some states have different programs, but there isn’t, there aren’t a lot of options available to graduate students, not scholarships, um, and other sources that we usually see. There could be institutional loan programs that varies by institution. But aside from that, the majority are private student loans. So we’re looking at going into the private market. This is of course based on the privilege of good credit and the possibility of a co-signer. Um, but you’re going to be getting who knows what kind of an interest rate. We’ve had some people apply and get a six and a seven and then another lender gave them a 14. So it’s a little bit unpredictable. And it’s really new territory because they eliminated the GradPlus loan. Um, different lenders have had to come up with different products, which mean different credit criteria.So it’s gonna be an interesting time, but you do have to think about taking out a private loan is going to mean two separate payments at repayment, right? So how is that going to impact cashflow going forward? Because that will be part of the decision-making process too.

Emily (19:44): So it sounds like check with your state, check with university, but last resort may be this private market, which is, um, evolving and uncertain at the moment. And maybe shop around quite a bit <laugh> and see what multiple different lenders are trying, are going to offer you. Um, I think listeners, you know, longtime listeners in this podcast will know that I’m pretty debt averse. And so I’m gonna be asking you to look at a variety of other ways that you could possibly, um, fund your graduate degree, um, without resorting to debt. So that would certainly be like looking for assistantships at your university, applying for fellowships, applying for scholarships, um, talking with different advisors to see if you can get on, you know, a grant of theirs. Um, and even working on the side, which is, um, not great. It may take away from, you know, your focus on your graduate program. But if you really have a high-stakes decision here with a lot of prior student loan debt that you don’t want under the new system, and maybe you’re only looking at high interest rates in the private market, maybe that is gonna be the best choice. So there are a variety of options here. Um, but we just have to be so much more careful about those federal student loans than we did if we were still under the old system. Is that a fair –

Janna (20:51): Yeah, that’s completely fair. And I am with you. I would put private loans at the bottom of my list. I would look at every other option before that just because you really have to look into the terms and conditions of these loans to know what you’re getting into.

Commercial

Emily (21:07): Emily here for a brief interlude. Would you like to learn directly from me on a personal finance topic, such as taxes, goal-setting, investing, budgeting, or designing your financial life, each tailored specifically for graduate students and postdocs? I offer live workshops, asynchronous online courses, and cohort-based programs on these topics, and I’m now booking for the 2026-2027 academic year. If you would like to bring my content to your institution, would you please recommend me as a speaker or facilitator to your university, graduate school, graduate student association, medical school, postdoc office, or postdoc association? My workshops are usually slated as professional development or personal wellness. The fall semester is an excellent time for any type of personal finance content. Ask the potential host to go to PFforPhDs.com/financial-education/ or simply email me at [email protected] to start the process. I really appreciate these recommendations, which are the best way for me to start a conversation with a potential host. The paid work I do with universities and institutions enables me to keep producing this podcast and all my other free resources. Thank you in advance if you decide to issue a recommendation! Now back to our interview.

Federal Student Loans for Grad Students Continuing Their Programs in July 2026 and Beyond

Emily (22:41): All right. Similar set of questions now, Janna, but different person. So this graduate student is someone who is a continuing, continuing in their same degree, um, across July 2026. But similarly, they are considering taking out a federal student loan. Maybe they came in with funding and the stipend is not sufficient for the living expenses. Maybe their funding source dried up because of a change in, in grants. We don’t know what happened, but they’re looking at a federal student loan as a continuing student. Are there any modifications you would need to make to your answer for the new student for a continuing student?

Janna (23:14): Yes. And this is all dependent upon did you borrow for this same program before July 1st? Okay. So if you did borrow a direct loan, any type, it could be unsubsidized offered, it could be graduate plus, you do have access to legacy provisions for up to three years or the completion of your program, whichever comes first. So it’s just important to know that means same loan types, same loan limits, business as usual, but you would had to have had a disbursement of a direct loan for your current program by June 30th of this, of 2026.

Emily (23:50): Okay. So if in… Let’s assume this is a PhD student. So if in their PhD up to this point, they had never taken out federal student loans, but they’re now looking at it, they would be in that first question as if they were matriculating for the first time. But if they had taken out a federal student loan for this program, not prior programs, for the current program, um, prior to July 2026, then they have these legacy options. Um, and so by legacy, you mean the borrowing amounts, right?

Janna (24:18): Yeah. I mean, borrowing amounts, um, the loan types that they have access to. The disbursement after July 1st, still same repayment scenario, right? You only have access to the new repayment plans when you borrow a loan after July 1st. But the limits… So the limits are still the $20,500, but the lifetime limit for a graduate student is $138,500 where the new limit is $100,000. So there can be a little bit more leeway there. Um, but also if they’ve used up all of their Stafford, unsubsidized Stafford limit, they still would have access to the Graduate Plus loan, which is the key for some people.

Emily (24:54): But if they take out the student loan July 2026 or later, then they are subject to the new set of repayment plans. Is that right?

Janna (25:04): Yes. It’s kind of a, you get caught in that, right? So-

Emily (25:08): So you’re allowed to borrow more, but you still have to repay under the new system.

Janna (25:12): Exactly. Exactly. Unless we see a new administration with new rules, which in my experience, we’ve had a new repayment plan every administration for the past five. So possible, right?

Emily (25:22): Yes. And that is really important for people listening to this anytime after the release date. You know, we’re on July 8th, 2026 and something could be different in the coming months, years, next administration. Absolutely. Um, and if you go back and listen to those prior episodes, by the way, that information’s now outdated. <laugh> So, um, they’re useful in terms of, like, understanding high level concepts, but not for the particular applications, um, any longer. Now I wanna talk about graduate students who are not considering taking out federal student loans. Let’s hope they never have to take out another federal student loan, but they do have existing student loan debt, um, all taken out prior to July 1st, 2026. Um, what is going on with them? Everybody is so confused. What is happening with SAVE? Like, um, as of this moment, right? Again, we’re in early July. So what, what’s going on with these prior borrowers under the new whatever’s going on now?

Emily (26:14): Right.

Janna (26:15): I first wanna acknowledge it is really hard to be a borrower right now and really hard to make the right decision. I feel it’s like it’s an impossible task. Um, let’s touch on SAVE first. So we have started seeing communications from loan servicers to the borrowers saying, “This is your 90-day notice.” Okay? So prior to then, they were coming from the Department of Education. They were like, “This is coming. This is coming. You should change.” But now it’s actually coming from the loan servicer that, okay, it’s time. Um, but not everybody is getting them at one time because I think it would be a logistical nightmare to process that many applications. So one example that I have is Nelnet as a loan servicer. They actually house almost half of all SAVE borrowers in the forbearance. And so they recently released on their website that they are gonna be notifying borrowers from July 1st through March of 2027.

Janna (27:09): You’re gonna fall somewhere in there, which is just more to me, a hurry up and wait. Like, I’m not sure when this is gonna happen to me, but you can still proactively get out of the forbearance if you’re ready. Um, but I know some people maybe filed taxes differently this year thinking it’s not gonna impact my student loan payments, but now it might, right? Uh, so we have that coming up. You’ll have 90 days to change plans and choose a different plan. And if you don’t choose a different plan, you’re going to be defaulted into a standard 10-year plan or a standard consolidated plan, which is typically a more expensive plan for most people.

Emily (27:45): Let’s keep on the assumption that we’re talking to a graduate student whose loans are in deferment. Okay. So maybe they never enrolled in the SAVE plan, okay? Um, if their loans are currently in deferment, what’s going on <laugh> for them?

Janna (27:58): So they can stay in deferment. Um, but I have been working with a lot of students that I don’t think know this, but you have the ability to opt out of deferment. Okay? And w – the reason to do this would be if you can opt out of deferment and go into the RAP plan. As an example, you have an interest subsidy, like we talked about. So the minimum payment in the RAP plan is $10. Yes, we would be looking at a loan payment. We would really wanna know what that payment is to see if it fits within our budget before making this decision. But the idea is you could finish your program with the interest subsidy, which means your balance isn’t growing for the duration of your program if you can fit that monthly payment in. So I think that is a good option.

Federal Student Loan Interest Subsidy

Emily (28:43): I actually wanna stay on that a little bit longer, um, because that was the subject, one of the key subjects that I talked about with Megan McGuire in season 14 episode seven when we were discussing the SAVE plan because the SAVE plan had this interest subsidy. The RAP version of it looks a litle different, but there’s still… The point is to halt the growth of the loan to stop the negative amortization that was going on that was so troublesome for student loan borrowers in decades past. So that is a really good thing, a great idea from SAVE, a great idea in RAP. Um, but as you were saying, there will be a payment, right? There was not necesarily a payment under SAVE, but there will be a payment under RAP, uh, $10 or possibly more depending on your income. And so I am very curious about this. So you are seeing that people are questioning, okay, even though I could be in deferment right now, I’m going to elect to start the RAP, make whatever the payment is as long as it’s affordable for them. And the reason to do this is because they’re planning on going for forgiveness, right? And finishing out the RAP and getting forgiveness. Um, and so they’re just starting the clock. Am I reading that correctly?

Janna (29:43): A couple, there’s a couple ways to think of it. Okay? So one could be I want the interest subsidy now because I know when I’m done, I’m gonna pay this loan in full, right? So I want the balance to stay the same today as it will be in three years from now when I graduate. So that is a great strategy… Um, and in addition to the principal or the interest subsidy, there is a principal pay down of a minimum of $10 per month so it’s going backwards a little bit. So it’s decreasing, which is nice. Um, it could be that you plan to work toward the 30-year subsidy, but one thing that’s important to know is we haven’t talked about how payments transfer between these plans. So your progress in the repayment assistance plan as far as qualifying payments toward, um, forgiveness as an income-driven repayment plan does not transfer to the other plans. Okay? But your time prior would go into the RAP plans timeline. So it’s really important from the start that you’re choosing the right plan or choosing it for the right reasons. So this could just be bridging a gap so we don’t have balance growth. Um, and then maybe we’re gona go into the IBR later, but that doesn’t always make sense. You can, you know, opt out of the deferment and do the IBR if you’re looking for a 20-year timeline. That’s also a great option because you are earning less money right now, which is great. Um, but the idea of the RAP is to halt the interest primarily. And so most times I see that those folks are the ones that wanna come out of school and attack their loans, but they just don’t want the balance to be growing in the meantime.

Emily (31:16): Okay. This is a new idea for me, so I’m loving this. Um, and I hope that listeners have gotten this far in the episode to hear this, this idea. So perhaps for some people, even if they have the plan that they are going to repay their student loans in full, while they’re in graduate school, while they’re eligible for deferment, they elect not to defer, they elect to be under the RAP. Um, but that is under the assumption that they, again, no longer want access to these legacy IDR plans, right? ‘Cause they wouldn’t be able to switch from RAP to –

Janna (31:46): You can switch. It’s just that your time, your time doesn’t count. Right? Um, and I think that’s the biggest part is typically you’re not going into it because you’re counting on time, right? You’re going into it for the interest subsidy. But if you spend time in the income-based repayment plan, as an example, and you go into the RAP plan, that time in IBR does count toward the RAPs timeline. So it’s a very, it’s a one-way street here.

Emily (32:11): I see. So a lot of people come to me with questions like, and this is very, like, old regime. Um, should I, you know, s – my loans are accumulating interest while I’m in graduate school, while they’re in deferment? Should I just pay, just make the interest payments along the way so my balance at the end of graduate school is the same as the balance at the start of graduate school? So you don’t have this, like, capitalization event that happens, um, when you come out of deferment. I get that question all the time because I think that was something the servicers offered, right? Like, “Hey, make your interest payments and, you know, freeze the balance.” So the idea is a little bit analogous here to what’s going on with this RAP suggestion of you’ll get a little bit of principal pay down, you’ll get the interest freeze, your payment might be low enough that you’re okay with making it. Um, that’s sort of similar ideas, is that right?

Janna (32:54): Yes. Yes, you’re right. Yeah. And I think the interest pay down, you know, when you’re doing it yourself and you’re in school, it almost feels like you’re climbing up, uphill mountain, right? You’re just, like, it is growing, but are you able to pay the, uh, the amount of interest that is accruing each month? Most times the answer is no, so that’s where this RAP plan is helpful. So it’s not just your money covering the interest, but it’s the government’s.

Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF)

Emily (33:19): And I know that some listeners are going to have questions around PSLF, because a lot of people in the listenership will have jobs that will be eligible for PSLF. They’ll stay in academia or they’ll go to another research institute that’s a nonprofit, like these kinds of things. Um, so how does PSLF work with or not work with all the options we just talked about?

Janna (33:40): Great question. Complicated, of course. Um, so the criteria for PSLF, you have to be in an income-driven repayment plan and you have to meet the employment criteria. So it could be any of the income-driven repayment plans. Um, typically we would see the IBR offers the new version offers a lower payment than RAP. Not always, but most times. Um, and then the old IBR is typically the more expensive. So I think the whole philosophy for PSLF is you’re gonna choose the plan that gives you the lowest monthly payment, right? But maybe that’s RAP for now, but then I make so much money that I could really benefit from that IBR payment cap, right? So you might switch partway through. So when we talk about it not counting toward other plans, it does count toward PSLF. It doesn’t matter the plan, you’re counting your time toward PSLF. So that’ helpful to know.

Janna (34:34): Um, one thing I do wanna be specific on, on the RAP plan though, there’s a new term called on – time payments. Only on – time payments are counting as qualifying payments, both toward forgiveness for the plan itself and toward PSLF. And this just means you need to make your payments in full on or before the due date in order for it to count. So I often recommend setting up auto-pay a couple days before the due date because we really don’t know what if your due date’s on a Sunday, what if it’s on a holiday? We don’t know how they’re going to treat that. Uh, but it is pretty rigid on what is going to be a qualifying payment.

Emily (35:07): Okay. Very good. I’m so glad that you provided that clarification about PSLF and changing plans. Um, I just wanted to add, for this hypothetical graduate student who elects to not defer and go into the RAP for the interest subsidy, um, that time, even though maybe they’re an employee of a university during that time, it’s not going to count towards PSLF because they’re not full-time employees. So don’t go into the, I’m going to not defer and enter the RAP thinking that that time is gonna count towards PSLF. It’s not because you’re not a full-time employee.

Janna (35:40): Right. You have to be 30 or more hours per week on a W-2, which is also important because I find sometimes you’re paid by W-2, sometimes you’re paid by a 1099 and the 1099 just does not count. And when we get into the weeds on that situation, quite frankly, I would say stay in deferment because the balance is gonna be forgiven at the end anyway, whether it’s interest accrual or principle. And I’d rather you put that money in something that’s gonna work for you, whether you’re working on building an emergency savings fund, you’re opening up a Roth. Those are all great options. Keep your money. Have it work for you in that instance.

Emily (36:15): I’m glad you said that because I had a little brain lapse right there because yes, of course, if you’re just doing 10 years after graduate school and you’re going for forgiveness under PSLF, it doesn’t matter what the balance was. It’s all gonna be forgiven at the end. Now, maybe people wanna hedge their bets in different ways possibly because they don’t know for certain what their career trajectory is going to be. That’s another layer of consideration in all of this. Janna, this was so helpful, but it also proves why you have a job. Um, can you please let people know how they can get in touch with Student Loan Planner if they’re looking at all these options and they’re like, “I need a professional in my corner to help me sort out, do the math on this. ” How can they work with Student Loan Planner?

How to Work With Student Loan Planner

Janna (36:54): Absolutely. Just come to our website, studentloanplanner.com and you can up in the corner, it’ll say, “Get a plan.” And you can either look under our individual bios and book with us individually. Or if you just click Get a Plan, you’re gonna get a round robin any of us. And we’re honestly all really great. It’s a really great team to work for. We’re all in your corner. Um, and know that with the consult, you do have three months of email support after we meet. And I think that part is really important because as much as we try to give you all the information and the follow-up resources and tools, there will always be questions. Um, so we’re always here to support you through that.

Emily (37:31): Emily here, breaking in with the updated link that you heard about at the top of the episode. If you want a consultation from Student Loan Planner, please go through my affiliate link of PFforPhDs.com/SLP/ to receive $100 off the standard fee. Now back to the interview.

Emily (37:52): Yeah, thank you so much. And I’ll put in a plug for the Student Loan Planner Podcast and also there’s a, what’s it called? A wealth version of it. There’s a couple different podcasts, right?

Janna (38:01): SLP Wealth. Yeah.

Emily (38:02): SLP Wealth. Yes. I listen to those podcasts regularly. That’s where I get my primary <laugh> student loan news from. So I, you know, you’re already listening to a podcast. Add those if you are a student loan borrower, um, on as well. If you’re not ready for a consult yet, just get some great information through the podcast. And at the right time, you’ll remember <laugh> who to reach out to. Um, so Janna, thank you so much for, um, coming on this interview.

Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

Emily (38:22): I wanna end with the question I ask all of my guests, which is, what is your best financial advice for an early career PhD? And it could be something related to student loans or not.

Janna (38:32): I’m gonna go out of student loans and I actually have two today. So I think of my PhD students that I work with and I get to see them from beginning to end. And we always talk about investing early. And so they open an account, whether it’s the Roth or the employer sponsored. And at their end, five or six years in, they’re like, “Thank you so much.” And I think what this tell – like starting early is like, you’re gonna thank yourself later for making that decision, even if it was the tiniest amount. So think about that. Um, and then my next one is automate as much as possible. You all are so busy that know that you can set up multiple direct deposit accounts with your paycheck so you can have some money going to your checking, some to your savings. Like those are tools that will save you so much time and a headache for sure.

Emily (39:17): I love that advice. Janna, thank you very, very much for joining me today.

Janna (39:21): Thank you so much for having me. I’m happy to be here.

Outro

Emily (39:33): Listeners, thank you for joining me for this episode! I have a gift for you! You know that final question I ask of all my guests regarding their best financial advice? My team has collected short summaries of all the answers ever given on the podcast into a document that is updated with each new episode release. You can gain access to it by registering for my mailing list at PFforPhDs.com/advice/. Would you like to access transcripts or videos of each episode? I link the show notes for each episode from PFforPhDs.com/podcast/. See you in the next episode, and remember: You don’t have to have a PhD to succeed with personal finance… but it helps! Nothing you hear on this podcast should be taken as financial, tax, or legal advice for any individual. The music is “Stages of Awakening” by Podington Bear from the Free Music Archive and is shared under CC by NC. Podcast editing by me and show notes creation by Dr. Jill Hoffman.

Jill Hoffman

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Best Financial Advice for Another Early-Career PhD

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Best Financial Advice for Funded Graduate Students Matriculating in Fall 2026

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Federal Student Loans for Grad Students Starting Programs in July 2026 and Beyond

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